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#21: Re: Questions about mod DOF2 Author: US_Brake, Location: USA

Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:38 am
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I like Nikin, he puts up a good fight at gameranger. He could use a forum avatar. Something historically accurate.

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#22: Re: Questions about mod DOF2 Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:38 am
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Laughing

PMSL

Dima wrote (View Post):

iam worse - i troll trolls Wink

An enoyable post comrade, especially the end comment

That is a brilliant line, if it is original, you will be famous for it

Cheers

AGS

P.S. PMSL = Pissing MySelf Laughing (an Australian expression)

#23: Re: Questions about mod DOF2 Author: Dima,

Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:39 am
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AGS,

that's a very intersting poster Brake posted.

You can see it is a late-war one, as a soldier has epaulets but also it seems a flag says Guards Regiment and a soldier is armed with SVT-40.
That's actually nice detail as SVT-40 was really in Guards TOE at least till 1944 while regular units had only M1891/30 since late 1942 or so.

Maybe it could be usefull for DOF3 Smile

#24: Re: Questions about mod DOF2 Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:56 am
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Dima wrote (View Post):

AGS,

that's a very intersting poster Brake posted.

You can see it is a late-war one, as a soldier has epaulets but also it seems a flag says Guards Regiment and a soldier is armed with SVT-40.
That's actually nice detail as SVT-40 was really in Guards TOE at least till 1944 while regular units had only M1891/30 since late 1942 or so.

Maybe it could be usefull for DOF3 Smile

G'day Dima

If you mean the picture could be usefull for DOF3, its dimension are unsuitable for the UI screens, so you must mean for it to be used for the splash screen?

Re the TOE, should i remove any SVT-40s from regular Red Army and replace with M1891/30s and vice a versa with Guards?

Cheers

AGS

_____

#25: Re: Questions about mod DOF2 Author: Dima,

Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:40 am
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Hey AGS,

Quote:

If you mean the picture could be usefull for DOF3, its dimension are unsuitable for the UI screens, so you must mean for it to be used for the splash screen?

well, that could work as well, but what i meant was that this poster is good tip for SVT-40 during late war Smile

Quote:

Re the TOE, should i remove any SVT-40s from regular Red Army and replace with M1891/30s and vice a versa with Guards?

there were number of changes in RA Rifle Squad TOE during GPW, something like below (from the top of my head - will check properly when back home):

June 1941: 11men squad, with 1 PPD, 2 SVT-40, 1 DP, 7 M1891/30 (1 with rifle grenade cup).

August 1941: 10men squad, with 2 PPD/PPSh, 2 SVT-40, 1 DP, 5 M1981/30 (1 with rifle grenade cup).

August 1942:
9men squad, with 1 PPSh, 1 SVT-40, 1 DP, 6 M1891/30.
9men squad, with 2 PPSh, 7 M1891/30 (1 with rifle grenade cup).
10men Gds squad with 2 PPSh, 2 SVT-40, 1 DP, 5 M1891/30 (1 with rifle grenade cup).

1943-1944:
9men squad with 1 PPSh, 1 DP, 7 M1981/30.
10men Gds squad with 2 PPSh, 2 SVT-40, 1 DP, 5 M1891/30.
10men Gds squad with 1 PPSh, 2 SVT-40, 2 DP, 5 M1981/30.

Dec 1944:
6men squad with 5 M1944, 1 DP.
10men Gds squad with 2 PPSh, 2 DP, 6 M1944.

#26: Re: Questions about mod DOF2 Author: nikin,

Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:26 pm
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Dima wrote (View Post):

As 100mm was a Naval caliber in USSR, there weren't 100mm AP shells in number till October 1944 thus no BS-3 in units - simple as most of the most complicated things in life Wink

.
Please provide report of BS-3 in action or that it was at least listed in units before fall 1944 Smile

The absence of AP rounds is not proof. And once you have denied my text - YOU have to confirm your words.

Dima wrote (View Post):

at least 10 by October 30th - so did they appear or not in fall 1942?

There must also be confirmed. About the first fight you can read in Wikipedia. If you have additional facts - put online.

Dima wrote (View Post):

of cause it's a shame, but i can't prevent you making false conclusion basing on the correct information i post Sad

For reference. We are located on the game-forum and discuss the mod for it. That is why I am such a conclusion.
If you suggest to add Tiger in 1942, explain - operations in 1942, which you propose to introduce? and how to remove them from Stalingrad?

Dima wrote (View Post):

not good reason for you?

not good... I can give you a much more serious differences which are not covered. for example:
1) ISU-122 and ISU-122S - different guns - different rate of fire;
2) IS-2 - two versions of the frontal armor;
3) JagdPz IV/70 - two different versions;
4) KingTiger - various turret;
and so on...

What is interesting - you clearly see how many errors in the DOF2. And yet, convince them to ignore.

I conclude that you are comfortable with the presence of the fantastic or inaccurate equipment in mod?

#27: Re: Questions about mod DOF2 Author: Dima,

Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:49 pm
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Quote:

The absence of AP rounds is not proof. And once you have denied my text - YOU have to confirm your words.

keep on searching and you'll get a Grail.
another tip, try to find out what type of guns did 100mm caliber represent that time in the Red Navy Smile

Quote:

There must also be confirmed.

on October 30th, 1942, sPzAbt.502 reported 9 PzVI and 18 PzIIIN operational with one remaining KO on no-mans-land.

Quote:

About the first fight you can read in Wikipedia. If you have additional facts - put online.

Wiki can't be seen as a source as it is filled by the guys like you and me Smile

better read T.Jentz or M.Kolomiets - both available online.

Quote:

well, pretend that your unit was so cool that OKW decided to send one Tiger to you at Stalingrad Wink

.
the game has its limitations - i bet you can live with alot of weapons and vehicles in game's Stalingrad that were not there in real life?

Quote:

not good... I can give you a much more serious differences which are not covered. for example:
1) ISU-122 and ISU-122S - different guns - different rate of fire;
2) IS-2 - two versions of the frontal armor;
3) JagdPz IV/70 - two different versions;
4) KingTiger - various turret;
and so on...
What is interesting - you clearly see how many errors in the DOF2. And yet, convince them to ignore.

when doing mod you always have to choose the lesser evil because the game has alot of limitations, that's why i tend to see what is available in mod instead of see what is absent Wink

Quote:

I conclude that you are comfortable with the presence of the fantastic or inaccurate equipment in mod?

nah, that's why i don't do big operation mods and concentrate on very small area and short time frame Smile

.

Last edited by Dima on Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:26 pm; edited 1 time in total

#28: Re: Questions about mod DOF2 Author: nikin,

Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:11 pm
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Hey Dima,
I am glad that we speak the same language:)

Dima wrote (View Post):

keep on searching and you'll get a Grail.

Understand that I can find and analyze the information. Is not the problem... Unfortunately for CC3 has not created a decent mod (Eastern Front).
First there was RealRed, where BS-3 appeared in 1943 at Kursk.
Then the DOF. In addition to the false data, it is a miserable campaign.
And finally reprint (COI), which collected the most horrible bugs.

On your example (CC5 Stalingrad), I see a completely different approach. This account even the smallest historical details and the topic dedicated to search mistakes.

Dima wrote (View Post):

nah, that's why i don't do big operation mods and concentrate on very small area and short time frame Smile

Unfortunately you are trying to faceted piece of glass. Diamond (CC3) was left lying in the mud.
But you've lost. Lamers previous shouting had found the perfect balance in CC5 now move in unison under the banner of LSA...

#29: Re: Questions about mod DOF2 Author: Dima,

Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:00 pm
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Hi,

Quote:

Understand that I can find and analyze the information. Is not the problem... Unfortunately for CC3 has not created a decent mod (Eastern Front).

well, i've not tried DOF but from what i've heard and seen i can see that is very decent EF mod Wink

Quote:

First there was RealRed, where BS-3 appeared in 1943 at Kursk.

RR had RPzB appearing in 1942 for Hvy Weapon Squad Wink

.
but again after so many years of vanilla CC3, RR was like a breath of fresh air and seemed to be much more historical and realistic.

Quote:

On your example (CC5 Stalingrad), I see a completely different approach. This account even the smallest historical details and the topic dedicated to search mistakes.

still too many mistakes and compromises Wink

Quote:

Unfortunately you are trying to faceted piece of glass. Diamond (CC3) was left lying in the mud

Well, IMO, CC3 was a mistake for Atomic although i used to play it for many years even after CC4 was released.

CC5, as the concept, has, again IMO, got CC to its edges (i don't talke about re-releases here) Smile

#30: Re: Questions about mod DOF2 Author: nikin,

Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:38 am
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Hello

Dima wrote (View Post):

well, i've not tried DOF

That is what I already knew. Apparently not read the topic carefully.
But call me a troll. Thank you.

#31: Re: Questions about mod DOF2 Author: jc_von_preussen,

Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:39 am
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Hello

If i may dare, I would like to ask if it is possible, somehow, to keep one's roster from Early War Campaign when you start the Middle War Campaign in DOF2. This would be awesome.

This would mean you can follow the fight with the same combat company througout 48 operations!!!!

Please tell me there's a way!!!

Respects,

JC

#32: Re: Questions about mod DOF2 Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:39 am
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jc_von_preussen wrote (View Post):

If i may dare, I would like to ask if it is possible, somehow, to keep one's roster from Early War Campaign when you start the Middle War Campaign in DOF2. This would be awesome.

This would mean you can follow the fight with the same combat company througout 48 operations!!!!

Guten Tag mein freund

Well i wish it were possible too. Many people have expressed exactly the same wish as you.
It would have been nice if when they created COI that they could have made it possible for campaigns that could have more than 16 Campaign Operations.

You can put more than 16 Campaign Operations into a Campaign file (but the Campaign Debrief screen looks terrible as the operation data just keeps appearing below operation 16).

If you dont care what the Campaign Debrief screen looks like and are ready to risk the possibility of a game crash if CC3/COI does not like it, you could rewrite a Campaign file with all the present 42 Campaign operations included. Theoretically, you could play throughout the war with same combat company roster (well, those that survive Wink

).

There could also be a problem with the Soldiers Debrief Screen, especially if you select the "History" tab, as there are not enough columns available (unless a slide tab appears at the bottom), this could cause a crash.

Another possible option is to hack the saved game file and change the Campaign details at the end of each succesive campaign (you would however lose the last day result of the last operation of the previous campaign including the soldier stats).

Another idea i just had, at this very moment, is after you have completed a few operations (but before completing the 1st Campaign), add the next numerical Campaign Operation to the Campaign file and delete the 1st Campaign Operation from the Campaign file . Continue to add one and delete one Campaign Operation after each Campaign Operation that you complete (always keep a maximum of 17 operations in the Campaign file (including only 16 completed Campaign Operations).

Sorry there is no easy solution kamerad.

If you have success with any of the above solutions, please make a post and give details.

Myself and many others wish you success, i hope one of those ideas works.

Cheers

AGS (DOF's creator).

_________________

#33: Re: Questions about mod DOF2 Author: jc_von_preussen,

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:23 pm
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Hallo Kamerad!

Thank you for this detailed answer!

Of the three options you mentioned, the last one sounds the best, at least at first sight.

you said I needed to

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

add the next numerical Campaign Operation to the Campaign file and delete the 1st Campaign Operation from the Campaign file . Continue to add one and delete one Campaign Operation after each Campaign Operation that you complete (always keep a maximum of 17 operations in the Campaign file (including only 16 completed Campaign Operations).

But if I'm not mistaken, I'd better wait for operation 15to start, then deleteoperations from 1 to 14 included. Then add operations 17 to 31... Right? this would require much less manipulating...
Then, this way, when reaching operation 29, I delete operations from 15 to 28, and add operations 32 to 45...

Maybe I'm not very clear inmy statement, what I ask is, wether adding deleteing operations one by one is necessayr, or is it possible to delete/add bunch of equal quantities?

Also I wonder why there shouldbe 17 operation files, not 16 ?

Last but not least, Having played DOF2 (German vs AI submod included) only since a few day, I noticed the AI being very strong and agressive. Iwas still playing DOF1 a week ago, and I can tell this make a big change, and it creates a very interesting challenge. The problem with the Russians becoming dangereous, is that your soldiers die like flees.. So maybe, after only two operations all m soldiers will be dead!
But I find it exciting to play a 48 operation long campaign, beause you have to think on the long term and save your soldiers asses, like in reality, rather than rushing like a mad man to get the VLs! This way you'll always look at preserving your men from evident dangers...

I need to give it a try!

Thanx a lot again for this great and entertaining mod!

JC

#34: Re: Questions about mod DOF2 Author: jc_von_preussen,

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:38 pm
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Allright,

I'm just back from my COI folder, but I can't find any clue how to edit operations from a campaign file. I may need a program for this right?

Here I really need your help again!

Thanx in advance,

JC

#35: Re: Questions about mod DOF2 Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:51 am
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Just open it with notepad

#36: Re: Questions about mod DOF2 Author: jc_von_preussen,

Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:31 am
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Thank you!

I should have thought of it ... Embarassed

#37: Re: Questions about mod DOF2 Author: nikin,

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:39 pm
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12.8cm Pak 44:

Weight 8,300-10,160 kg
Barrel length 7.023 m (20 ft) L/55

and... in mod DOF2 this gun can be perfectly hidden in the houses Laughing

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Two 12.8cm guns in a small house

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#38: Re: Questions about mod DOF2 Author: nikin,

Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:17 am
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I will continue ...

Column "Min Range AP" (in meters) in the file Weapons.txt. There are no values greater than 10 meters.
There is a value less than 10 meters. For example 5cm KwK 38 L/42 - 5 meters.
But all tanks and guns refuse to fire (a gun) at a distance <10 meters (reason "No clear shot")!
Thus the dead zone is the same for all tanks and guns - 10 meters! No advantages for PzII against the KV-2. You can not use the dead zone.
Conclusion - This column data (with respect to the guns) have no meaning (as opposed to RealRed with values from 10 meters for all guns).

PS Tested on CCIII DOF2

#39: Re: Questions about mod DOF2 Author: nikin,

Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:18 am
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delete this post

#40: Re: Questions about mod DOF2 Author: sample,

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:32 pm
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nikin wrote (View Post):

Even so, let me describe the delusional situation. Consider, for example, added in mod 12,8 cm PaK 44. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12.8_cm_Pak_44 - especially see photo
So:
1) The size of maps in the game does not exceed 520-600 meters, a distance fight is even smaller. This is a close combat. Now we proposed to remove from the game 2.8cm s.PzB.41 (useful arms by the way) and add to the forefront of the battle 12,8 cm PaK 44 (only one whose weight is >10 000 kg). That is, if the retreat these weapons will be lost.
2) The gun has (in DOF) a simple chassis. In reality, it was like the AA guns. -> Great height, complexity masking and traverse-360°.

Next start bullshit
3) Crew of the gun in the game - 5 members. Again, look: weight is >10 000 kg, shell weight - 28 kg, complex six-wheeled chassis, etc.
4) Crew can move gun (5 men, 10 000 kg, field conditions, complex chassis)!!!
PS Russian 100mm BS-3 also had the opportunity to move.
5) Masking gun like for example 3.7cm Pak (indicator - "cover" in the game)!!!
6) Gun can be hidden in any shelter (such as where to place the 3.7cm Pak) - house, bunker, etc.!!!
7) This was not enough. Added also gun 12.8cm FK-40. Information about this gun, I did not find in Wikipedia or anywhere else.

I think you smoked grass creating this mod Smile

hi nikin

i was reading your argumentations about the introduction of this particular gun in DOF2 and i find the critics a bit harsh, i shall say: in any released cc mods and (re-)released cc versions you find plenty examples of historical (in)accuracies versus game play or vice versa:
- take a look for example the 60 mm US mortar team present in almost any cc version or western front mods: generally the team has 3 members when in fact normally a five or six man Squad was required to carry weapon, mount and ammunition; if the mortar was not needed the crew acted as extra rifleman or stretcher bearers
- or the vickers medium machine gun: in mods the team has 3 members, but a vickers mg subsection has 6 soldiers, the firing crew consisted of commander, gunner and loader and 3 ammo bearers
- again, the 3inc/8cm/81mm/82mm mortar man: in cc the soldier is carrying the weapon (including the bipod and the base plate) and the ammo, something between 30 and 63 rounds; imagine a real life a soldier loaded with the mortar (3inch/8cm/81mm/82mm) tube, the bipod and the base plate and also with 30 mortar rounds on his back;
- or finally the ubiquitous german 7.5 cm le.IG 18 gun: in cc the crew varies from 3 to 5 while there were no less than 10 soldier for each gun and i could go on with examples

so, there are many cases in which compromises were made in the name of game play versus historical accuracy, there is no need to be harsh with AGS or anybody else:

"You can spend hundreds of hours researching data on the net and not find everything you want to know.
You can spend hundreds of hours building campaign scenarios
You can spend hundreds of hours testing campaign scenarios
You can spend hundreds of hours rebuilding vehicle profiles for the vehicle file
You can spend hundreds of hours rebuilding weapon profiles for the weapons file
You can spend hundreds of hours rebuilding team profiles for the Ruteams/Geteams files
You can spend hundreds of hours editing vehicle graphics for graphics files
You can spend hundreds of hours editing weapon sounds for SFX. file
You can spend hundreds of hours doing many other things too
You can spend hundreds of ours testing the game to discover the limitations of the game's perameters in the CC3 eng" (to quote ArmeeGruppeSud own words)

regards

Close Combat Series -> Close Combat Cross of Iron

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