Norway Massacre
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#16: Re: Norway Massacre Author: Therion,  PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:12 pm
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AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
Therion wrote (View Post):
I don't understand one thing. Why is there a youth organization for a party? Why are politicians recruiting children and teenagers (which don't have life experience to judge which policies are right or wrong) for their cause?


The medium age of the youth on the island was 16 years (according to a media source). The youngest 14, up to 30 something.  

I belive as Therion, that the black and white world view is more profound in youth and they are more radical then the mother party. The students and young are also often in the frontline in protests and “revolts”. But the youth with polar views are probably in the extreme parties to the left and to the right side of the political life.

However, I do believe this social democrat youth party that was targeted is rather benign holding democratic and very high level of human rights/equality ideas.

The question if youth should be allowed to be in political parties is interesting. We can vote from age 18, but we can be members of political parties from earlier age. But membership or not, politically activity is not confined into fixed youth organisations. They exist from the moment someone is politically aware.  
The individual starts there political awareness at different ages, some remain totally ignorant for there whole life. Politically ignorant ppl are as much or more of a problem then ppl that informs them self and educate em self about politics and the system.

There's a difference between political awareness and political activism. And there's a difference from forming their own opinions based on their own experience and neutral sources and political indoctrination.

Here in Poland, one conservative party got completely destroyed politically because they had a youth group. While the actions and words of the party were pretty moderate, their youth organization was full of retarded skinheads and football hooligans.

For example:
Homosexualists wanted a public parade.
Party stance: We don't want promotion of homosexualism in public and homosexual marriage (stance of all parties except post-communist party)
Stance of the party youth organization: GAS ALL FAGGOTS!!!

That's how they slipped into political non-existence.

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
The political climate here is fine, democracy working at it best. We can debate if the sick should have less benefits, we can debate if the unemployed should get less benefits, we can debate how little pension our old should have, we can debate how extremely little help the oldest age ppl should have at the end of there life. We can sure debate how extremely little the weakest in society should have, even letting our native ppl live on the streets its cost efficient. And not only are we allowed to debate this, we have for the last 6 years seen all the a bow social securities being dismantled and lowered at the same phase as we give them who have the most, yet another tax relief.  
But you may be surprised, here in our democratic society it’s not allowed to debate the immigration, and it been so for a decade now.
Anyone who suggest that we should allow one less immigrant a year is doomed and ladled a murdering nazy and a right wing extremist. The person’s political future is gone in a second, his work life will be affected, and socially he’s an outcast.
The question I ask my self especially after this shooting, Is this reasonable? Surely every party must have as many views on immigration as they have members? One less, one more, two less, three more, half the present quota, double the present quota of immigrants? But, we are not allowed to debate it… This arguably must have built up a frustration in moderate ppl who want to debate the immigration. The ppl who have feelings/opinions about the immigration may well end up in the extreme camps, where other extreme ideas and method are debated and may well form there political views..

Wouldn’t it be better to allow the immigration debate within the political systems and media.  Letting the parliament and parties debate this question in the same way they debate all other questions?

Oh. It sounds horrible. It's surprising that stuff like this can happen in a democratic society O_o . Now I'm not surprised that some finally chose to use violence to solve that problem.

BTW. some guy burned himself alive to protest the uncontrolled immigration a few weeks ago. It seems that it didn't provoke any discussion.
I remember someone ironically saying that he should have killed other people not himself. It's so true...
I guess sometimes the only way to get people thinking is to start shooting them. The same was with bullying and intolerance in schools.
#17: Re: Norway Massacre Author: wood,  PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:53 pm
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A rightwing extrememist wanted to hurt the leftside of politics in Norway, so he went after the Labour party's youth. Who held their annual summer camp at Utoya.
For those interested ill post a link with how he moved on the island.

http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/oslobomben/slik-skjedde-angrepene.php
 
The yellow line follow his path.
Most victims were found at "Hovedhuset", "Kafebygget", "Teltplassen" and 3 places near the waterline police also found bodies.
In times like this i hate that Norway doesnt have the death penalty because i dont want this man to waste anymore O2 than he already did.
#18: Re: Norway Massacre Author: AT_Stalky,  PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:54 pm
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Therion wrote (View Post):
Here in Poland, one conservative party got completely destroyed politically because they had a youth group. While the actions and words of the party were pretty moderate, their youth organization was full of retarded skinheads and football hooligans.


I believe that’s a matter of causality.
Do you believe the youth was turned into football hooligan and skinheads by that conservative political organization? Was those youth innocent doves, like white unwritten papers until they entered that organization?
Or was they already football hooligans and skinheads as they entered that organization?

I believe all human interactions will cause a degree of push and pull on each other. Some will be more pulled, while some others will cause more push on there surroundings. Its leaders and followers in a dynamic relation.
Im not sure, but I do believe most ppl that enter an organization already holds similar values and thoughts as the organization they enter. There must be an attraction, or the person would not even be interested in that organization in first place.  A left wing socialist person would hardly enter a right wing extreme organization, a person holding liberal views would hardly enter a communist organization. A democratic secular person would hardly enter a religious motivated political organization etc..
#19: Re: Norway Massacre Author: dj,  PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:09 am
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It seems the international spread of right-wing extremists is worse than anyone realized.  For decades the left somewhat dominated especially in the 60's and 70's.  Now the right-wing extremists have become far more violent and dangerous than any leftist organization.

Here in America the right-wing extremists exploit the typical views held by racists to promote xenophobia and blame immigrants for everything.  We have a very long history of violence towards immigrants in our past.  Americans were particularly cruel to Irish Catholics, Chinese laborers and others that were made scapegoats or convenient political targets.  These hoodlums recruit the mentally deranged, insane, poorly educated - if educated at all or others that are easily indoctrinated.  Yes the youth are very much targeted as recruits.  The Norwegian terrorist indeed to no surprise was found to be mentally insane.  Currently the immigrants targeted by these radical activists are the Mexicans and Muslims.  

I witnessed these types of hoodlums attempt to attack my friends with baseball bats when I was 15 years old.  The only reason why is because 2 of my friends were African American (twins) and one was Japanese American.  But I think the only reason they tried to attack us was simply because they disliked Black people.  We were just kids but they wanted to attack us any way.  It is the sign of a madman to take out their anger management issues on a immigrant or minority.  Talk to your politicians but don't hate someone for their colour of their skin or culture.  We are all just people with the same basic goals in life, no matter what the race or religion.
#20: Re: Norway Massacre Author: MajorFrank,  PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:31 am
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This was a crazy individual who did this, although the psychologists are saying that he might not be crazy, just evil. Whatever that means. I hope he's locked up for the rest of his days.

Many of these extremists want to attack the moderates who they see as an enemy. Well the way I see it this attacker failed and Norway will only strengthen it's democracy and this is something that many countries (USA included) could learn from.

edit. Some people have said that there should be more guns in the societies of Norway and other countries. I don't see Norwegians going for more guns in society because of this, actually I think it will be less guns.
#21: Re: Norway Massacre Author: Sapa,  PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:21 pm
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The two most hated guys, one is dead..i wish it was both... :/

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