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#1: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:49 am
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CC5 St Honorine

The AI is famous for its belly down assaults.

Sometimes they work. It is amazing how persistent some of these attacks are. Question

But, the AI just can't seem to figure out when the attack is certain to fail. Of course disengaging would be almost impossible in most of the cases.

Anyway, maybe I will post a few examples. Feel free to do the same if you have some good screenies.

#2: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:21 pm
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CC5 St Mere Eglise

Why couldn't the AI figure this one out. The Panzer III in the town square was a dead give away. It got most of the kills too.

#3: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:28 pm
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CC5 St Come du Mont

I had to stop lobbing mortar rounds into the herd, otherwise they wouldn't crawl into the trap.

They did manage to shoot up a Grenadier team, but I replaced it with Sturmgrenadiers. Idea

#4: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: Stwa,

Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:10 pm
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CC4 Nouville

Here is one that actually worked for the AI, but at great cost.

The 2 57mm AT guns in the woods to the South, pretty much repulsed the entire attack.

Which also proves, the AI could care less what is shooting at them. Laughing

#5: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:38 am
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CC2 Map 210

Sooo, I was thinking that maybe if the map enviroment changed, things would be different. Confused

You would think, someone would pass the word down the line.

They have tanks Exclamation

#6: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: fry30,

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:06 pm
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STWA, I don't know how I usually feel about your CCMT only posts (I don't own that GAME!)... but this series right here is hilarious. I know exactly what you mean....

However, as a recent convert to WAR and TLD and LSA... the "new ones"... I have to say, it does get better. A LOT better.

But man these screens are classic. I've been through this so many times.

THANK GOD FOR GAME RANGER.

--great post STWA.---

#7: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:40 pm
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Thanks,

I have got a few new articles (like this one), that I want to share with everyone, that I think will inform, without me getting too wordy. Idea

It is part of a new approach I want to use in the forum, without me going on and on about what is on my system. Idea

And yea, I am sure the new games are great, but I really do love my CCMT. Smile

#8: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: Therion,

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:32 pm
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Ahh... the red of fresh blood. That's one thing that I miss when playing Armored Brigade.

#9: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:36 am
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Hi Therion,

Glad to see you are enjoying Armored Brigade. Smile

I wonder, would HPS's Point of Attack be up your alley. Idea

Point of Attack 2

#10: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 3:54 am
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CC2 Map 110

This one wasn't exactly all belly down. A few guys tried to sprint to the canal where the MG 42 teams were. Confused

Also, I couldnt get all the dead soldiers into the picture. I knew this one would be good. Laughing

#11: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: Therion,

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:45 pm
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Stwa wrote (View Post):

Hi Therion,

Glad to see you are enjoying Armored Brigade. Smile

I wonder, would HPS's Point of Attack be up your alley. Idea

Point of Attack 2

Not really. I'm more into action games like CC and AB. You know, sound of projectiles hitting the armour, tracers flying left and right, explosions and stuff. Blood and screams of the dying/turrets falling off vehicles.
All in RT/Accelerated RT.

#12: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:17 pm
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CC2 Map 300

I thought setting up a game with NO VICTORY LOCATIONS would do the trick, but they attacked anyway. Shocked

Once the fire became too much, they did attempt to disengage. Idea

BTW, small soldiers are a must on the older maps. Idea

#13: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: papa_whisky,

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:44 pm
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The AI definitely needs some work on it in CCMT, the crawl of death is probably at its worst in this CC version compared to all others. In LSA at least they run to their death and as a result some of them actually make it.

#14: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: Stwa,

Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:35 am
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Hi papa_whisky,

Shhhhh, we are in the setup phase of this thread.

I have a lot of ideas, especially when we get to the modern weapons. Should be interesting. (I hope) Idea

And yea, I hear you, but would you really want to make these attacks standing up. Question

Remember the scenes from We Were Soldiers Question

#15: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: Stwa,

Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:36 am
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CC5 Dog Red

Just a quick glance back at some of the previous posts, and you might figure out that many of the belly down assaults were conducted by troops of the highest morale and experience.

Most notably, American Airborne. And there were a few sprinters, too. Exclamation

However, when green American troops are involved, they might not attack, even with the Victory Location undefended, within sight, and no one shooting at them at all. I waited until I got sleepy. [yawn]

#16: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: Stwa,

Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:28 am
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BTW, if you think the AI Belly Down Assault is kinda stupid, then check out the antithesis of this kind of attack

The HP Rambo Tactic Idea

#17: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: Stwa,

Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:06 am
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CC4 Houffalize (Yuma)

Terrain is also a determinate when it comes to anyone's approach to the Victory Locations. If you had replay (like with CCMT), you can observe teams running very close to their objectives when the terrain is close.

Looking back at CC2 Map 110 is it any wonder these guys hit the dirt. What were they to do, line up like the Scots at Stirling Bridge.

The teams sneak to try to avoid detection, when the terrain masks the observations of the enemy, sneaking might not be necessary, and this is present in AI behavior.

#18: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: Stwa,

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:08 am
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CC4+ Losheim (WAR)

To a greater extent than terrain factors, Force morale will govern if the AI will attack or not.

When Force morale is high, the AI can be fearless, as shown below, where the minefield and barbwire are not a deterrent to a doomed attack.

However, there will come a point in most games, when the AI's morale has reached a critical level, and to move them off the map, you must assume the initiative.

#19: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: Stwa,

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:18 pm
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CCMT Rural 2d

Map size can have a tremendous effect on the size and scope of an AI attack.

This map has over 4 times the area of the largest CC2 map. Yet each side has the same number of teams and basic manpower.

Here the AI attacks on the left, with just a single team, and as will see in the post below, the AI is also supporting a second attack on the right.

Each attack cannot support one another and the AI must divide its forces accordingly.

#20: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: Stwa,

Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:32 pm
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CCMT Rural 2d

Victory Locations and their placement on the map relative to each sides deployment "zone" is usually the single largest determining factor when assessing the likelyhood of an AI attack.

Secondary to that, if ARMY (in this case) holds more locations than OPFOR, and OPFOR has good team morale and force morale, then you can expect an attack at some time during the game.

The size and scope of the attack is always uncertain, but generally speaking, the larger the map, the less manpower the AI is willing to commit.

Here the AI attacks on the right (a good choice), with a moderate force, since the AI is simultaneously conducting attacks on the left.

#21: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:54 am
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CCMX Airport 2a

Weapons and range can also influence the AI when it comes to an attack.

Here the AI demonstrates, that using explosives, like low and high velocity grenades, is (at times) preferred to the classic belly down assault. Idea

#22: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:18 am
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CCMT Mountain 1c

In most cases, in front of every belly down assault is a good belly down defense. Idea

As you can see, even some teams with defend orders have hit the dirt (snow). Why? So they won't get shot, that's why. Exclamation

The problems associated with AI attacks are many, and NOT always due to their belly down nature, but to other circumstances, that I may take up in another thread.

#23: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: LoneRebel,

Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:27 pm
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The AI crawl of death is practically a Close Combat fixture. The AI loves crawling, even over open terrain covered by multiple enemy machine guns.

You'd be surprised, though. As Stwa pointed out in the first post, these belly down attacks sometimes actually work, through sheer force of numbers. Shocked

More than once, I've had what seemed to be a perfect trap, defending units in good cover watching over an open killing field. The enemy comes into it - and actually succeeds! Many times, the field is littered with bodies, but who cares - they made it.

Other times, they AI actually doesn't take many casualties at all in these belly down attacks, and that's where I really get surprised. These times, it's usually because of smoke or supressive fire. The AI sometimes uses smoke correctly, rendering my MGs ineffective. Worse, at other times, the volume of fire being thrown at my MG by all the attacking teams is such that even if the MG isn't wiped out, it's not able to fire back at all. Funny how that happens. Shouldn't it be the other way around? Laughing

I'm playing the CC5 Battle of Berlin mod now as the Germans. The Russians' huge numbers (10-man squads) will make for some interesting belly down attacks in the truest Soviet human wave tradition. I might post some screenshots...

#24: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: MajorFrank,

Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:35 pm
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LoneRebel,

yep, same thing, sometimes the AI just kind of overwhelms my troops. I sometimes put it down to me giving all possible advantage to the AI and make my troops as green as possible to make it challenging.

And yea, that Battle of Berlin mod can get bloody.

#25: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 3:16 pm
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CCMX Airport 2b

Of course, the AI fairs even worse when trying the totally braindead HP Rambo Tactic.

You guys feel free to add some screenies if you want. Idea

Remember one of the noobs on page one was thinking that when they run, some of them make it.

Well, that would depend on how far they gotta run, wouldn't it. Question

#26: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: LoneRebel,

Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:39 am
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MajorFrank,

Yeah, it does surprise me when those massive AI belly down attacks actually work sometimes. The AI does it by the numbers... Laughing

Actually, I've noted that Close Combat, overall, has quite a love of crawling. The average soldier in Close Combat will spend a lot more time prone than the average soldier in, say, a war movie or first-person shooter. So which one is a more accurate depiction?

I believe that the "prone sprite" in CC also includes kneeling, crouching, moving while crouched, etc. (which would partly explain why soldiers spend so much time prone).

#27: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: Stwa,

Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:58 pm
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CCMT Desert 2c

But for the ultimate in pure unaldurated belly combat nothing beats the CCMT desert depression scape. Exclamation

Just stand up for a few seconds and you will probably get shot.

Running just doesn't work that well in the sand. It just makes the bad guys chuckle when they pull the trigger. Laughing

#28: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: Stwa,

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:25 am
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CCMT Rural 2b

Players have different viewpoints on the AI belly down assault. Idea

But before anyone should come to any judgements regarding method or game superiority, players should log a few games where the AI hardly ever goes belly down, for any reason. Idea

Here, the AI rifle teams have been coded as armored cars.

In the modern game, you can imagine what the result might be. But try it, its fun anyway. Exclamation

#29: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:30 am
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CCMT Mountain 2a

One thing all players, should have realized by now, the AI shoots at pretty much ALL visible targets.

As firearms developed over time, just shooting at the enemy was eventually construed as attacking.

But, in the modern game, runners are heavily penalized, if the area of the battlefield (or map) is large, or the terrain not restrictive or close.

Consider these remarks from a popular game review

Because high-tech weapons are so lethal and accurate, the general rule in warfare is that if you can see it, you can kill it. That puts a premium on keeping your units hidden and scattered until the crucial moment. Of course, that's great if you're on the defense, but if you're tasked with attacking, you will eventually have to expose your units in the open.

#30: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: LoneRebel,

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:56 pm
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When tanks are involved in these assaults, they become even more interesting to watch. When the AI has lots of tanks, they sometimes lead with their tanks. This makes no sense at all in a normal game, but since the Soviets in BoB sometimes seem to have even more tanks than infantry squads, it makes sense for them. (The AI Soviets can have up to 8 or 9 tanks on the field at a time.)

The tanks will lead since, naturally, they are faster than the infantry and will get to the AIs VL targets first. If the VL is inside a building and the tanks cannot reach it, they will just randomly roll around outside the building until the infantry arrive.

This makes defending building VLs with infantry a nice tactic against the Soviet AI in BoB - over several battles, a large number of wrecked tanks will pile up outside the building/s.

Unfortunately, in the heat of battle I forgot to take a second screenshot when the Soviets assaulted the station itself with three full squads of infantry.

AI Belly Down at Grunewald.JPG

Description:

Lots of tanks on the outside and Soviet infantry crawling in.

Filesize:

151.04 KB

Viewed:

10022 Time(s)

#31: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 3:37 am
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Muhahahaha Exclamation

That is an excellent pic. Maybe that should have been in the Rambo thread. Idea

The more I look at it the whackier it looks. Laughing

And the infantry support too. Confused

Anyway, keep em coming if you feel the urge. Idea

#32: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: Stwa,

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:43 pm
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CC4 Marche

Here is another attack that was a complete bewilderment to me as it was happening.

How is it the AI, just cant see the armored car dead ahead. Question

Each AI soldier leaves the Station Depot, only to be blown away 25 meters later. Exclamation

#33: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: Stwa,

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:45 am
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CC4 Clerf

Here is a rare 2 axis belly down assualt. Of course, it is failing miserably.

Looks like only 5 guys are responsible for most of the allied casualties.

The pic belies the true problem with belly down assaults. And that is the axis of advance, once established, it usually remains the same.

But in this case, more than one axis is established, but from the looks of things, the results are about as predicitable as they would have been with a single line of advance.

#34: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: Stwa,

Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:51 am
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CC4 La Roche

For years, I have noticed forumites complaining at length about the AI Belly Down Assault, but rarely do these people offer an alternate tactic.

Generally, recomendations around the 2009 time frame revolved around the desire to modify the "girly soldier" behaviors associated with the re-releases of CC4 and CC5.

These recomendations must have been partly successful, since some changes in the re-releases were re-re-released. Idea

But rarely do forumites remark at any length about the AI NOT Belly Down Assault.

I think it is important for all of us to be able to distinguish between those attacks that were in fact all belly down, and those that are not.

The AI in Close Combat is very good by any standard, but you won't get a sense for that until you have logged a lot of time against the AI.

Since all soldiers in CC (AI or HP) spend a lot of time on their bellies, it is hard to observe attacks that are not really belly down. Players get distracted or just ignore that this happens more than they think.

Last edited by Stwa on Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:41 am; edited 1 time in total

#35: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: Stwa,

Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:38 am
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CC4 Forrieres

In addition, the KIA pattern of the usual belly down assault is a long conga line, which generally means more than one squad or team was involved in the assault.

In the pic from the previous post, notice this conga line is absent. To be sure, once a team feels the heat from the German halftrack, they drop to the ground so they wont be shot, and perhaps they can survive or fight better from a prone position.

In fact, the entire history of firearms leads to the modern notion that the even attackers should attempt to remain concealed for as long as possible, and that attacking can be construed as simply firing your weapons. And this can be better accomplished in most cases from a prone position.

But rarely do forumites describe attacks from AI vehicles, specifically tanks. These are not belly down. There is rarely if ever a conga line of attacking tanks. This is your clue, that the AI does not really coordinate the efforts of each squad or team with one another, but simply lets them move and fight as individual units.

In addition, its clear the game (AI) understands very well, that tank tactics are different from infantry tactics.

P.S. dont tell Brake about the Find A Date Today ads at the bottom of the page. Wink

#36: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: US_Brake, Location: USA

Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:18 am
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Stwa wrote (View Post):

CC4 ForrieresP.S. dont tell Brake about the Find A Date Today ads at the bottom of the page. Wink

I get all the nasty women at christian mingles.

#37: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: Stwa,

Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:30 am
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CC4 Assenois

Usually, when the AI leads with tanks, the infantry just follows and generally are not needed to assualt the Victory Locations.

But, recalling the line (or axis of advance), mentioned in the above posts, it would seem that tanks might be exempt from this policy. Either that, or they can usually capture the location quicky which removes the necessity to employ a second tank (or team).

The conga line of attacking infantry soldiers in a belly down assualt flies in the face of the assumtion that the AI does not coordinate the activities of multiple squads. But me thinks it is an optical illusion.

In the following screenshot, the AI tanks lead the advance and shoot up everthing in their path. The infantry follows close behind. In fact one team ran past my panzerfaust team, which was cowered in a building trying to get a shot off at the AI tank just West of the South bridge.

The AI team ran past my undetected soldiers in single file, across the road to the North, then detected the team, dropped to dirt, and shot my guys up. It's just all part of the crazy things that can happen in CC.

#38: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: Stwa,

Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:36 am
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US_Brake wrote (View Post):

Stwa wrote (View Post):

CC4 ForrieresP.S. dont tell Brake about the Find A Date Today ads at the bottom of the page. Wink

I get all the nasty women at christian mingles.

Thank God somebody does. Laughing

#39: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: Stwa,

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 5:27 am
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CC4 Simmerath

Another point bears mentioning. Forumites are quick to critisize belly down assaults. The main point being that the attack is visible to the enemy, and belly down movement is the slowest form of movement, so the attack is doomed to fail.

It is interesting that the same forumites do not equally critisize the belly down defense, where AI soldiers are again belly down, AND NOT MOVING AT ALL. Laughing

In some CC game systems, belly down soldiers are visible at rather far distances, and this is the true culprit for failure in these situations.

Some game systems, make prone soldiers hard to vis or locate, and the data gurus have to draw a fine balance to not disturb the abstractions imposed when displaying the individual soldiers on the 2d map. Generally using a Small Soldier mod helps to assist this abstraction.

In the following pic AI vehicles (the Scout Cars), attempt to take the center Victory Locations, while AI infantry (in some cases) take to the defense, but are shot up anyway while they were on their bellies, any assault notwithstanding.

#40: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: Stwa,

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:34 am
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CC4 Wardin

Here is an interesting attack. In pic 1, the AI is feeding runners into a multi (3) axis belly down assault. The target Victory Location is the one mainly in the center of the map.

As the attack progresses in pic 2, and AI teams are targeted by HP squads, they drop to the ground to continue the assault ala belly down.

In pic 3, the center VL has been captured, so the AI changes course with all squads and continues an all out belly down assault on a different VL to the Southeast.

In any event, the AI is taking unacceptable losses because the map is small, and enemy soldiers have taken defensive positions nearby. The small map and the close proximity of the VLs to one another is what allows the multi axis assault to happen in the first place.

Going prone allows these attackers to stay alive longer and prolong the assault. Nevertheless, that does not mean the attack will succeed. CC does a great job of illustrating the vulnerablities of infantry to modern automatic rifles and grenades.

#41: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: Stwa,

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:58 pm
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CC5 Amfreville

Well, PITF has been released, and it looks like everyone is kicking the AI around in some of the early reviews, and from some of the early suckers, who have already purchased the game.

But while the NOOBS are having fun with PITF, I thought I would show more WW2 battles with maps in the upper size range. It's amazing how a few words get bandied about, and now the AI just can't coordinate an attack in CC.

The AI, we have all discovered, doesn't really coordinate the efforts of individual units on the battlefield. It doesn't seem to deliberately use a combination of arms to destroy stubborn defenders. But that doesn't mean that working independtly doesn't create instances where attacks at least seem coordinated. After all, if more than one AI unit attacks at the same time at any place on the field, this can be contrued as coordination.

The largest CC5 map I have in my collection is 20x20 deployment tiles, and as one might imagine as the size decreases on the maps, the illusion or semblence of AI coordinated effort seems to increase. But still, even with the largest maps availabel (20x20), the AI can still look pretty good, even when it loses.

In the attached pic, two tanks seperate and operate independently, but take 2 undefended victory locations in the process. If you didn't know any better, you would swear they are coordinating their efforts. And in a true sense they are, because the SAI code for CCMT has directed each tank to take these independent actions. Notice it sent only one tank (NOT both tanks) to the victory location in the Southwest area of map.

#42: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: Stwa,

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:07 pm
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CC5 Amfreville

Continuing with the battle from the above post, it is important to know that the pics are from the actual battle (while in progress), not the replay. So enemy soliders and sometimes dead enemy soldiers are not always visible.

Here the AI demonstrates that independent action from its units, can create a combined arms assault on enemy units most of the time. AI infantry units are starting to show up South of the plowed field. As they arrive the AI orders them to advance North to the victory location in the middle West part of the map. Notice, the tanks do not advance, but blaze away at my defending units in the houses and hedgerows. The tank closest to the road may have thrown a tread, but the tank in the middle of the plowed field is completely operational.

Several AI infantry units attempt a belly down assualt toward the victory location. Two units begin from the SE corner of the plowed field, and two more from the W road, near the presumably disabled tank. There is no conga line, each infantry unit is probably acting independently, but yet attacks are launched toward a single victory location, with covering fire from two Shermans. This can only be construed as a cooperative effort.

A belly down assault is a good choice as you can see from the pic one AI unit gets quite far moving North up the road, because its movements were unobserved even by my infantry positioned to the left flank of this AI unit as it moved along.

Notice the defending infantry has all taken up belly down positions as well. I did not have to instruct them to do this. The soldiers just know that running around after the shooting has started is the quickest way to get shot.

#43: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: Stwa,

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:34 pm
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CC5 Amfreville

So I have attached the Overview Map showing the situation at this time in the battle. As you can see I have only 9 units left, 6 units were elimated during the AI assault.

The lights went out when my Zugfurhrergruppe team was elimated. They were stationed in the 2 story house across the road from the target victory location. This was a good spot for them, since they could see the area where the battle was taking place. Apparently their last message was "Heading for cover".

At this point, the AI has halted the attacks. I wait for ten minutes. I try for a ceasfire, just to confirm that the AI wont accept any terms, and this is confirmed. The AI wants me to attack. Not likely, but my options are as follows:

1. Hit escape, and know that I am defeated. The game is being played with no time limit.

2. Move my Sturmhaubitze down the road toward the AI controlled E victory location. If I capture it, then this might evoke an AI response.

At first thought, it would seem the AI is being very clever, refusing to negotiate when it has the upper hand. But me thinks the AI has simply forgotten that it fought a battle in the plowed field. The AI does know that it currently holds more victory locations and it may (I am not really sure), know that it has much better force morale at the moment. But me thinks apart from that, the AI will only react to what it perceives in present time.

#44: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: MF_Church,

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:25 pm
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Smile

!

Good post ! stwa !!

#45: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: Stwa,

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:17 am
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Thanks !

#46: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: Stwa,

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:36 am
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CC5 Amfreville

Well, if you remember my two options from the last post. I decided on option 2, and I moved my Sturmhaubitze down the road to the AI controlled victory location. I also moved the two Aufklarer units adjacent to the road toward the same VL.

The Sturmhaubitze spotted the Sherman in the plowed field and stopped (not what I wanted), and tried to shoot it. No workie, so after it exploded, I continued with the Aufklarer units. As it turns out the VL was guared by 3 infantry teams. A protracted fire fight raged on, and my units were eventually wasted. In CCMT, once engaged, it is very hard to disengage, especially at close quarters, since movement is usually cancelled, when a unit receives any kind of sustained fire. I tried sneaking away and running away, but to no avail. This is one of the more realistic facets of CCMT, and it works the same way when you are trying to advance on the enemy. Its one of those things that tends to slow the movement down on the map and strike some parity for the AI, since it is harder for the HP to rush its positions. It would also do the same with any freaky Vet(Zombie) mod too.

So after these events, the AI still refuses a truce, so I hit escape and resign. Because there was no time limit, the AI doesn't feel compelled to attack, especially if it controls more victory locations. After all the AI lost 4 infantry teams and probably 2 immobilzied tanks in the battle for the plowed field. So in my case as the HP, I am forced into an Attack or Withdraw situation. I chose to attack, but I really didn't have enough force, and my attack failed, so I resigned.

The pic shows what is left of my force at the end of the game.

#47: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: Stwa,

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:16 pm
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CC5 Pegasus Bridge

This report will contain plenty of heavy duty belly down action so I am hoping all NOOBS will stick with it and check it out.

But first, reports for CC's newest game, Panthers in the Fog, are starting to trickle in from our forward observers in the field. First indications are MP direct connect is toast. What a drag. It seems the uppers decided that most users were too stoopid to make a direct connection, so the feature got canned. Also, and this is a strange one, but it seems that the tanks are too beeg for the roads, or at least tree lined roads. We will have to get confirmation from Matrix on this one, when they get back next week.

Now, back to CC5 Pegasus Bridge.

I am always amazed to hear the endless negative attributes that are handed out the the AI in such general and casual terms. The Belly Down Assault or Crawl of Death stereotype is always cited near the top of list when users want to bash the AI.

Its funny, but Human Players are sneaky, and in most gaming situations with the AI, the HP will always yield the initiative to the AI, so the HP can sit back and effortlessly waste the AI as it grapples with an almost impossible tactical situation. One thing is certain, the AI is brave.

CC5 Pegasus Bridge is one of those impossible tactical situations, and I, as the HP in this game, do likewise, and I seize more victory locations quickly in the first few minutes of the game, and force the AI soldiers to traverse the bridge on their bellies to assualt my well covered position.

This mode of Single Player gaming is known as HP Defender - AI Hopeless Attacker. When an HP is really lazy, which is most of the time, they like to sit back and watch the AI impale itself on a well fortified or impossible position.

The AI soldiers attempt to cross the bridge on their bellies, and are slaughtered in the process. Now most NOOBS will say, "Well ya, its the crawl of death". Hint

the real reason is explained in the previous report for CC5 Amfreville.

#48: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: Stwa,

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:58 pm
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CC5 Pegasus Bridge

As mentioned in the previous post, this report will contain some great belly down action. As predicted the AI is slaughtered as it attempts to cross the bridge ala belly down as it begins the assault.

But because Pegasus Bridge is such a ridiculous tactical nightmare, the normal precepts for this Single Player game mode gets tossed out the window. That mode is HP Defender - AI Hopeless Attacker, which is normally a lot of fun for most gamers, and for some its their preferred mode.

And shall I say, this AI assualt was definately coordinated, complete with mortar fire, and units that were not part of the assault lending supporting fire.

But in all battles, if an attack fails, the initiative is transfered to the other side. In most circumstances, this is no biggie since the assaulting force has encountered great loss and can be easily mopped up for the win.

But here, at this battle at Pegasus Bridge, the initiative is surrenderd to moi (the HP). But to perform the final mop up operation, I must cross the same bridge over to the other side to finish off what remains of the AI forces. Not good. Laughing

Last edited by Stwa on Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:23 pm; edited 1 time in total

#49: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: Stwa,

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:51 pm
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CC5 Pegasus Bridge

What makes this situation precarious is the fact that the AI still has sufficent force to repulse my assault accross the bridge. To be sure, it only needs a few rifle teams and/or a machine gun.

Once again, because the game is not played with a time limit, the AI will not agree to a cease fire. It still has enough force morale, and in this case, it could care less that I have taken 4 of 5 victory locations.

As with the battle at Amfreville, I am forced into an Attack or Withdraw situation. The only way to end the game is to finish off the AI or hit escape. Of course, I choose to attack, not wanting the AI to seem the surperior player.

I vary my assault, and I cross the bridge running. Of course this does not work. Sure a few guys got across, only to find the MG42 team in the bocage. The sniper in the 2 story buiding was a nice touch as well.

And here is the kicker. Just like at Amfreville. Once my units were engaged in the assault, and even while upon the bridge itself, it was impossible to retreive them and call off the attack. What was left of the AI forces was apparently enough to bring sustained fire onto each attacking unit. I rubber banded everyone and got them crawling ON THEIR BELLIES, just like we all acuse the AI of doing. It worked for a few minutes, but in the end everyone was slaughtered.

And I will bet you are wondering about smoke. Don't worry, Stwa takes care of all the details. We couldn't throw the cannister across the river so we lobbed it onto our side of the bridge. We emerged from it as we ran onto the bridge, to the amusement of the defenders.

#50: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: Tejszd, Location: Canada

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 4:47 pm
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Some good posts here Stwa!

#51: Re: The AI Belly Down Assault Author: Stwa,

Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:08 am
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CC4W Winterspelt

It has been a long time, since I have a seen a totally hopeless belly down assault from the AI. But that exactly happened in my most recent battle at Winterspelt.

The AI kept pumping more guys into the conga line, even thought they had "captured" the VL.

Too many times, I simpy enjoy observing the combat. I get the soldiers set up, then kick back and take my hands off the keyboard. It's lazy and always produces the game mode of HP Defender - AI Hopeless Attacker, which is just way too much fun. Exclamation

Close Combat Series -> Close Combat Modern Tactics

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