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#1: Heated political/religious discussions Author: MajorFrank,

Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:34 pm
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Not so long ago I found myself banned from a site I used to frequent. The topic was almost always political or about religion. The discussion that got me banned was a somewhat heated talk on the subject of religion, Christianity. Insults were being thrown from both sides but only me ended up getting banned.

Now, I rarely throw the first stone in a debate such as that one but I will throw the second and third and fourth. I didn't start the trashtalk this time either. Trouble is, on the subject of religion with religious people, the discussion will almost inevitably turn hostile. I've also noticed that some Christians will actually attack aggresively against those whom they see as criticising their religion. I thought they're supposed to turn the other cheek and forgive etc. How wrong was I.

Oh well, live to fight another day. Cool

#2: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:50 pm
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LOL

If you enter a conversation believing that the opposing side will:

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

I thought they're supposed to turn the other cheek and forgive etc.

-then your sadly mistaken. Laughing

Hehe:

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

I've also noticed that some Christians will actually attack aggresively against those whom they see as criticising their religion.

Hmmm, ever heard about the protestant / catholic conflicts… Laughing

Mmmm, What’s that smell, mmmm, ahhh its “fresh flame bait” Cool

#3: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: pvt_Grunt, Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:05 pm
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I try to think twice, or three times before going into these topics, luckilly though, I'm ALWAYS right, so that helps Wink

#4: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:18 pm
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MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

I've also noticed that some Christians will actually attack aggresively against those whom they see as criticising their religion. I thought they're supposed to turn the other cheek and forgive etc. How wrong was I.

Hi MajorFrank

Speaking (typing) as person with a strong christian faith, i must defend my bretheren and apologise to you on their behalf.

Faith is a passion!

Anything that a person is passionate about will invoke strong emotions.

Strong passionate emotions can easily turn into anger and in anger people (even christians) will sometimes lash out with verbal (even literary) abuse and insults.

You were correct, we are supposed to turn the other cheek.

Christians are expected to endevour to be perfect!

A goal which, for mere mortals, is realistically unatainable.

Yet, we must pick ourselves up after every failure, and continue in our pursuit of Godliness

Fortunately, God knew this, and our Salvation does not rely on our ability to be perfect, but rather, the problem of our sin (imperfections) has been solved by Jesus Christ's sacrifice on the cross, vicariously paying sin's penalty on our behalf,...............Yahoo! Hallelujah!

Now, just reading between the lines, i shall assume that you argue with Christians and make fun of, and criticise their (our) faith.

In light of that, may i generously and warmly extend to you every conceiveable, demeaning insult available in every language on earth Very Happy

Cheers

AGS

_____

#5: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: MajorFrank,

Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:32 pm
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AT_Stalky,

well I would characterize myself as pretty anti-religious but I'm also not an anti-moralist, I believe in high morals and ethics. I don't think one needs religion to develop a sense of morality. However, these Christians, they uphold Jesus as their guiding idol and promote stuff like wars and yes, throw all the insults they can at people who criticise their religion.

IRL (outside the Internet, lol) I've noticed that at least some Christians do their utmost to 'keep up appearances' and behave well. I don't have a problem with that. Maybe on the Internet there are more of these 'fighting Christians' who go into attack mode against atheists and freethinkers such as myself. Would Jesus do that? Very Happy

And yea I know about the Catholic-Protestant conflict, I have no illusions about Christians and how violent/rude/aggressive they are.

And I'm not trying to flame anyone. I have only one religion, that is Close Combat. Laughing

ArmeeGruppeSud,

Well how should I put this. I don't go out of my way to seek out religious people, Christians or other, and insult them. It's just that, in my view, religion is still a huge factor in global scale that cannot be avoided. Despite all the advancement in science and rational thinking, these religions organisations still wield great power. Personally I can't ignore that.

I used to belong to a church, here in Finland most kids are baptized into the evangelical lutheran (protestant) church. I left that church in the year 2000, mainly because I didn't want to pay them something called the church tax which is a yearly sum they take from you like a tax. Afterwards I have become very anti-religion in my personal views. With people like Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchense selling millions of anti-religion books, I don't even feel the need to explain why I am anti-religion anymore. In my view being anti-religion is the natural state of the mind.

Having said that I don't feel any need to argue with you, for one because I don't want to bring any unnecessary drama here to CC, and secondly because you are probably an ok guy because you like CC. Smile

So...yea.

#6: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:20 pm
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The more political power a religion gains, or the more power a person get through using religion in politics or for his agenda the more corrupt the religion becomes. The history has taught us that religion then becomes an instrument of power.
This is indeed the story of the western world, and other regions to.

#7: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: MajorFrank,

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:16 pm
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AT_Stalky,

yea possibly. I'm interested in dismantling the various religious organisations so that they don't become a bigger problem then they already are.

Some say that for example Christianity is on the decline, it's reached it's zenith etc. Personally I think Chrisitianity is becoming stronger, although in many countries science has been getting the upper hand, overall it's still gaining. All you have to do is look into the organisations behind these religions and you see how it's all about money, basically. And they are making more and more money all the time. So I don't really see how they are supposed to become weaker any time soon...?

#8: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:29 pm
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MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

I'm interested in dismantling the various religious organisations so that they don't become a bigger problem then they already are.

A sort of "reversed crusade".. You will have a well filled schedule for along time, no doubt..

#9: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: MajorFrank,

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:13 pm
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AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

I'm interested in dismantling the various religious organisations so that they don't become a bigger problem then they already are.

A sort of "reversed crusade".. You will have a well filled schedule for along time, no doubt..

That it is, that it is.

Personally I think that a lot can be achieved by things such as just bringing some transparency to these religious organisations. Showing how they make their money, the links they have to governments, big corporations, the various economic organisations, stock markets, etc. I think when people begin to see this they will understand that these churces etc. are just, well, kind of ponzi schemes. All the positive things such as helping the poor etc. that churches claim to do can be done better by non-religious organisations.

#10: Low temperature political/religious discussion Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:08 pm
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MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

However, these Christians, they uphold Jesus as their guiding idol and promote stuff like wars and yes, throw all the insults they can at people who criticise their religion.

Promote wars? Not in ANY of the churches that i have visited.

EXCUSE ME! (now ever so politely) where do you get rubbish like that from?

Don't mention the "Crusades" either, the leaders who misled the people were not christians, they just used the peoples faith to trick them into wars of plunder.
The very 1st city sacked, butchered and plundered by the crusaders was a christian city!

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

Maybe on the Internet there are more of these 'fighting Christians' who go into attack mode against atheists and freethinkers such as myself. ?

Dont assume that all those on the internet who claim to be christians are actually christians.
There are many wolves out there love to discredit Christians by pretending to be one.
You should visit Yahoo Christian Chatrooms,.......... there are few Christians among the chatters there.
But, you are probably, at least to some extent, right, that you will meet a higher percentage "fighting christians", online, than you will find in the churches on a Sunday

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

Would Jesus do that?

Oh, and Jesus did speak harshly to and about the Pharisees, he called them, amongst other things, "a brood of vipers" and "hypocrites" (Matt.23). So Jesus obviously condones, at least at some level, the rebuking and negatively labelling of people who mislead others.

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

And yea I know about the Catholic-Protestant conflict, I have no illusions about Christians and how violent/rude/aggressive they are.

Again you are generalising and effectively insulting the great majority of Christians who are not violent/rude/aggressive.
If you are going to generalize, you would be more accurate in saying people/humans are violent/rude/aggressive.

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

And I'm not trying to flame anyone.

But you succeed nevertheless

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

I have only one religion, that is Close Combat.

Not so, the faith that you have in the religion of science qualifies Wink

Atheist swallow the Theory of Evolution without chewing on it and just accept it as fact simply to avoid facing the reality of God.
The evidence against the Theory of Evolution is,.......well endless and is everywhere you look.

The atheistic scientist have to continuingly come up with new theories to try explain why their theories regarding evolution dont add up with the facts,...duh!

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

It's just that, in my view, religion is still a huge factor in global scale that cannot be avoided

Of course, and no matter how much you allow yourself to be deluded by scientific mumbo jumbo, you will eventually have to face God,... and that... cannot be avoided!

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

I'm interested in dismantling the various religious organisations so that they don't become a bigger problem then they already are.

I'm interested in dismantling the secularisation of society so that it wont become a bigger problem than it already is Smile

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

Some say that for example Christianity is on the decline, it's reached it's zenith etc. Personally I think Chrisitianity is becoming stronger, although in many countries science has been getting the upper hand, overall it's still gaining.

Christianity is growing at an increasing rate, despite the institutionalised deception of flawed science.
China's christian population is increasing at a dramatic rate.

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

All you have to do is look into the organisations behind these religions and you see how it's all about money, basically. And they are making more and more money all the time.

If you were speaking about scientology, your statement would be true. True christianity (yes there are many counterfeits) is all about relationship with the eternal, infinite entity who created all things that exist,.... God

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

All the positive things such as helping the poor etc. that churches claim to do can be done better by non-religious organisations.

All the positive things such as helping the poor etc. that churches actually do can not be done better by non-religious organisations, certainly not the government. With most non-religious charities, only about 30% of the donated money gets to the target

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

bringing some transparency to these religious organisations. Showing how they make their money, the links they have to governments, big corporations, the various economic organisations, stock markets, etc. I think when people begin to see this they will understand that these churces etc. are just, well, kind of ponzi schemes..

Again your generalized comments would have been better aimed specifically at scientology rather than fired indiscriminatily, scattergun style at all religions.

Seriously, when you make such broad claims, statements and accusations in online forums, i would not be the least bit surprised that some people may have questioned your intelectual capabilities in somewhat sarcastic or demeaning ways.

But, by all means, please, show me how he Australian Baptist Union (of which my local church is a member), is linked to governments, big corporations, the various economic organisations, stock markets etc, and how our church promotes wars Rolling Eyes

Your cheerfully (i think i kept the temp down Very Happy

)

AGS
____________

#11: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: MajorFrank,

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:49 pm
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ArmeeGruppeSud,

well seeing as this is devolving into a religious debate (hope it won't get me banned this time) I'll oblige.

About promoting wars, well when I was in the Finnish military we had these chaplains there who's job is to basically, in war time and in peace time, to forgive all the sins the soldiers do. Personally I see this as very much against the commandment about not killing. Also religion has been a part of many many conflicts, do I really need to list them all? And religion was a part of Crusades as well.

You're a Baptist? I thought baptists are very strict about religion. I know some Christian sects who can't even watch the telly, it's against their religious beliefs. I guess it's ok for you guys to use the Internet?

Personally I've pretty much given up with conversing with relious people. From personal experience I know though that even a formerly religious person can 'come to his senses' and leave their religion. I know some tragic cases who have left some very closed religious sects.

Oh you don't even take the theory of evolution as factual science? Well, that puts you into some pretty hard core religious fringe. Again, I'm sure you're a good individual, just sad that you feel the need to get mentally involved with something like that. Isn't it possible for you to, say, work in a soup kitchen and not buy into the religious dogmatic thinking?

I'll face God, Buddha, Allah, Jehova and the rest of them at once. I'll give you the address of the gym where I train Muay Thai and we can organise a match up.

So you think Scientology is evil but Christianity or your preferred version of it isn't? It's all the same, just a different package.

Hope that clears some things. I think we see the issue from pretty opposite sides, don't feel like getting into a Internet fight over here in CC cause I kinda like this place. And like I said I used to belong a church and was I guess religious for a while. After giving it up, well my eyes have very much opened to the whole thing, all things religious just look really negative to me now. If I can leave religion behind anyone can.

Yours truly,

MajorFrank.

#12: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:49 pm
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And here are the latest odds from ETC-betting office.

Event…………………………………….......................................: Odds
The debate ends in Major Franks salvation.................: 5-1
The debate results in AGS denounces god...............: 245242585-1
Jesus will rise again in 2012.....................................: 8-1
The earth will go under ón 21st of December 2012....: 3,2-1
This thread will be moved to train wreck thread..........: 1-0,9
Matrix will release a Close Combat game that has been beta tested.: 2555258^10-1

Last edited by AT_Stalky on Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:32 pm; edited 2 times in total

#13: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: MajorFrank,

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:56 pm
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AT_Stalky,

I'd say the odds of me turning religious are much lower then that.

I'm pretty sceptical of joining anything but at the same time I know that non-religious people need to stand up and demand their rights. The world is being run by religious organisations and they don't like non-religious folks.

#14: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:00 pm
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ok.

#15: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:23 pm
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MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

well seeing as this is devolving into a religious debate (hope it won't get me banned this time) I'll oblige. .

The devolving began in the 1st post Wink

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

About promoting wars, ...... religion has been a part of many many conflicts, do I really need to list them all?

Of course not.
That was never in dispute.
It was only the ludicrous suggestion that churches "promoted wars" to which i was objecting and you have given absolutely no support for that false accusation.

The refutation stands Razz

Actually many wars are caused by atheist, so we should get rid of atheism (sorry, thats your rationale)
Also wars are started because of capitalist economic reasons, so we should get rid of capitalism (sorry, thats your rationale)

Thats sarcasm Sheldon Razz

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

You're a Baptist? I thought baptists are very strict about religion. I know some Christian sects who can't even watch the telly, it's against their religious beliefs. I guess it's ok for you guys to use the Internet? .

PMSL

Yes, Baptist are reasonably strict, but thoroughly modern, technologically, we use computerised projection systems in our church services. We even get out church newsletter by email (to save paper and the trees) Very Happy

Just dont confuse us with the Amish mennonites who wont use any technology at all (they still use the horse and cart).

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

Personally I've pretty much given up with conversing with relious people. From personal experience I know though that even a formerly religious person can 'come to his senses' and leave their religion.

From personal experience I know that even former atheists can 'come to their senses' and find salvation through Faith in Jesus. Wink

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

I know some tragic cases who have left some very closed religious sects.

Yes, in those sects, the poor souls can be just as spiritually dead as atheists.

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

Oh you don't even take the theory of evolution as factual science?.

It is factual that evolution is only a scientific theory.
It is a scientific fact that the theory of evolution is unproven as scientific fact.

If you are willing to accept any theory as a fact......
Then accept as fact the theory of a creator God Very Happy

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

Isn't it possible for you to, say, work in a soup kitchen and not buy into the religious dogmatic thinking? .

LOL
Isn't it possible for you to, just do your usual job and not buy into the anti-religious secular thinking?

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

So you think Scientology is evil but Christianity or your preferred version of it isn't? It's all the same, just a different package.

Actually, scientology, various other sects, false religions and atheism are all the same, just packaged differently. They all lead people away from eternal salvation Sad

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

And here are the latest odds from ETC-betting office.
Event…………………………………….......................................: Odds
The debate ends in Major Franks salvation.................: 5-1

We can only hope and pray Cool

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

I'd say the odds of me turning religious are much lower then that.

Yeah, maybe only 3:1 Wink

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Event…………………………………….......................................: Odds
The debate results in AGS denounces god...............: 245242585-1

Try 99999 recurring - 1 Very Happy

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

I know that non-religious people need to stand up and demand their rights. The world is being run by religious organisations and they don't like non-religious folks.

Actually, i think it is the opposite,
At least from my perspective here in Australia, the world seems to be run by anti-religious secular governments that don't like religious folks. Christians need to stand up and demand their rights.

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

I used to belong a church and was I guess religious for a while. After giving it up, well my eyes have very much opened to the whole thing, all things religious just look really negative to me now. If I can leave religion behind anyone can.

Thankyou for your frank and honest testimony. Some people do have negative religious experiences that can give them a wrong concept about Chrisitan faith. As a child, i was into dinosaurs and knew all the scientific periods (mesozoic, jurasic, triasic cretaceous etc) off by heart and was well read on evolutionary theory. If can i put that behind me and find the truth, anyone can Cool

Here's hoping that you either find the truth, or the truth finds you (thats what happenned to me).

God bless you Frank

may the stats be with you (in CC)

cheers

AGS

_____

#16: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: MajorFrank,

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:29 pm
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Oh yea, I meant the odds are higher. Sorry, English is my second language. Third language actually (after Finnish and Swedish).

Like I said there are plenty of examples religion and churches advocating war and violence and Christianity is clearly the most bloodiest of all religions.

The Christian sect that can't watch telly I was referring to is called laestadionism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laestadianism

I didn't belong to lestadionism but I've met some IRL and gotten into arguments with them as well. There are many many Christian sects that are like this, thousands and thousands of kids are born into these sects and thus brought up brainwashed into them. Also many of these sects are against condoms etc. so they usually have like families of 10 + kids which is an effective way of growing the movement.

Why forcibly baptize kids into a religion, why not give them a chance to choose for themselves when they are of age (18 years +)? And what's with the ciricumcision etc. crap? Your god sure is one freaky guy if he wants stuff like that done to little babies.

And no I don't think I'll be adding a big bearded guy, flying dudes with wings, etc. to my thinking about the origin of the universe. Sorry.

Well I've kinda said everything I had to say about this.

#17: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: CSO_Talorgan,

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:58 pm
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AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

ever heard about the protestant / catholic conflicts…

I thought that sectarianism was a speciality of the northern Celts. Didn't know that the rest of you indulged in it too. Do you?

#18: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: kawasaky, Location: Zagreb, Hrvatska

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:20 pm
—
Shit!
Not again...
Quantum mechanics people!
Nothing material exists, and in that material nothingness, everything is one and one is everything.

#19: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: MF_Church,

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:05 am
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Well, I'm loving this!

Anytime Open Dialogue is allowed to Brighten & Reveal what our hearts hid from even ourselves is always a huge blessing.

Like when Iron sharpens Iron, words can clean up issues and strongholds in our thoughts. Slicing through too long held views and pet ideas long dead or dying a slow death.

And we all Online may partake of each swing of the Blade of truth as it strikes down the other less wholesome one.

Thank you to everyone. I really do rejoice with each one of you. But none more than when 'Truth' rings out loud and clear!

p.s. I am a 'follower' of Christ and I owe a big part of that to a close friend a Finn while in our late teens and early 20's who was a new beginner/believer at that time.
p.s.s God hates religion. Man's attempt to reach God. When God has already reached down and is still reaching... Smile

#20: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:43 am
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MF_Church wrote (View Post):

p.s.s God hates religion. Man's attempt to reach God. When God has already reached down and is still reaching... Smile

Yes..

----------------

Some other thoughts:

Its seems that there’s only a type of personality that wants to be worshiped and likes when people sucking up to them, here are some: Hitler, Stalin, Kim Jung II, Ceausescu, Rakosi, Jim Jones, and a few others.. I can’t really see “god” amongst them… I believe god prefers a more dignified relation with his creation.

/S

#21: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:14 pm
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MF_Church wrote (View Post):

God hates religion. Man's attempt to reach God. When God has already reached down and is still reaching... Smile

Amen Brother

That was a point i did consider bringing to MajorFrank'd attention ie:

The definition of "religion" is:
"Mans attempts to reach God"

Whereas, as you correctly testify, True Christianity is:

"Recognition and acceptance of God's successful reach to man"

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

CHOOSE REALITY
IT WILL BE BETTER FOR ALL OF US

With that in mind.

What is eternal, not temporal, is the only true reality.

The material universe is only temporal...

More to the point, the material universe, our existence, is a figment of God's imagination

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

And no I don't think I'll be adding a big bearded guy, flying dudes with wings, etc. to my thinking about the origin of the universe.

Well i am glad you don't, because if you did, you would be the only one!
If you think that is what Christians believe, then you are even more misguided than i thought.

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

Why forcibly baptize kids into a religion, why not give them a chance to choose for themselves when they are of age.

Exactly! i totally agree with that.
As a member of the Baptist Church, we believe in "Believer's Baptism" which means a person can only be Baptised by their own choice.

Keep your mind open for truth Frank

God bless you all

Cheers

AGS

______

#22: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:08 pm
—

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Whereas, as you correctly testify, True Christianity is:

"Recognition and acceptance of God's successful reach to man"

Endless love, understanding and knowledge:
If one recognise that god may be something grate, something with a knowledge and love and understanding that dwarfs even the greatest of humans. Would such a grate creature only set up one tiny little road through Jesus to his “kingdom”?

Any normal human with limits:
Would parents only set up one tiny narrow road for there child to follow, and if not followed the child will be througn out?
We know a few parents who have ditched there child for not obeying the parents rules. That would be the norm, but only if we apply the hard core Christians view on how god operates his kingdom.

IMO, believing that god is such a narrow-minded limited creature, that he set up only one single small path to his kingdom is to stupefy god. And we would also have to believ he’s even more cruel, narrow-minded and loveless than the most defect of the human parents who ditch there child for not following a narrow single path..!

/S

#23: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:23 pm
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AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

If one recognise that god may be something grate, something with a knowledge and love and understanding that dwarfs even the greatest of humans. Would such a grate creature only set up one tiny little road through Jesus to his “kingdom”?

God is GREAT, with ifinite understanding and knowledge and has wisdom beyond our comprehension.

Now would such an amazing being set it up so people could go in any direction to find Him?

What would be the sense of that? Confused

Would it be logical to for him to make 2 opposite directions to come to Him, or would it make more sense to have ONE direction for ONE destination?

Jesus Christ was God incarnate!

His sacrificial death, was therefore of infinite value!

For there to be numerous other ways, would be to make His sacrifice worthless!

What a preposterous idea! Rolling Eyes

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Any normal human with limits:

God is neither human, nor limited. God cannot be compared with humanaity any more than humans can be compared with fish, or micro-organisms.

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

And we would also have to believ he’s even more cruel, narrow-minded and loveless than the most defect of the human parents who ditch there child for not following a narrow single path..!

Oh, the finite man AT_Stalky sits in judgement of the infinite God. Shocked

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

IMO, believing that god is such a narrow-minded limited creature, that he set up only one single small path to his kingdom is to stupefy god.

Of course the temporal finite being AT_Stalky is far wiser than the eternal infinite God and can give God advice on how things should work (thats sarcasm Sheldon). Razz

@ AT_Stalky
God does things His way, He knows whats best. God has been around forever and gave creation and humanity much thought before initiating creation (we have ignition,.....BANG!).

God has done things the way He has done them because it was the best option chosen from a possibly infinite number of options. Humanity has neither the intelect, nor understanding, nor the wisdom to comprehend the enormity, complexity and reasoning of Gods brilliant plan.

We are in no position to judge His ways. We can just accept that Jesus sacrificed his mortal life on the cross to pay the penalty for our imperfections.

God sent His Son to us. We can accept His Son and God will accept us. Smile

If we reject the Son, we reject the Father also, and bring His rejection upon ourselves. Crying or Very sad

We are either for God, or against God

If we are for God, we will accept His Son Jesus the Christ and then its all good Very Happy

@ AT_Stalky & MajorFrank

Hope we will meet at God's place in the afterlife Cool

cheers

AGS

_____

#24: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:39 pm
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ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Now would such an amazing being set it up so people could go in any direction to find Him?
What would be the sense of that? Confused

Actually, Even the old Romans understood that more is better then less, remember the proverb: “All roads leads to Rom”

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Would it be logical to for him to make 2 opposite directions to come to Him, or would it make more sense to have ONE direction for ONE destination?

If you think of it, if your on a sphere like the earth, and you go in 2 opposite directions, you will actually end up at the same place. Thinking of it, it doesn’t matter what direction you go, any direction lead to the exact same place..
Just “maybe” god can actually handle more than one thing at the time…

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Any normal human with limits:

God is neither human, nor limited. God cannot be compared with humanaity any more than humans can be compared with fish, or micro-organisms.

Actually, if you look at the microbiology, it reviles that we all use the same blue prints, possible made by one guy. So of coarse we can be compared.

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

And we would also have to believ he’s even more cruel, narrow-minded and loveless than the most defect of the human parents who ditch there child for not following a narrow single path..!

Oh, the finite man AT_Stalky sits in judgement of the infinite God. Shocked

And:

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

IMO, believing that god is such a narrow-minded limited creature, that he set up only one single small path to his kingdom is to stupefy god.

Of course the temporal finite being AT_Stalky is far wiser than the eternal infinite God and can give God advice on how things should work

No not really, you see, I just made a logical analogy with the parent and child (was that hard to understand? My English of course…), and it turned out that if god operates as you say he does, he must be more cruel than the most defect human parent. And we would call that parent cruel and loveless, and as we are not operating under a double standard, we would have to call god the same thing: “cruel”, simply for he do the same thing as the defect parent.. But, I don’t believe god only has one road to his kingdom, because I don’t like some others, believe he’s cruel and simple minded and rigid as a lump of concrete…

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

(thats sarcasm Sheldon). Razz

Its actually irony, Börje.. But who’s counting…

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

God does things His way, He knows whats best. God sent His Son to us. We can accept His Son and God will accept us. Smile

Oh I see. You’re a Baptist? and you guys know how god operates... I see I see. I must learn more.. ::

Link

Cool, god hates 99.999% of all humans, and they have found that in the bible! Impressive, with quotes and everything.. I just have to learn more…

Oh, cool. Thers a ton of things the baptist say god loves and hates and how things should be done, Link::
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=baptist+church+hate&oq=baptist+church+hate&aq=f&aqi=g-m3&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=10030l12901l0l13057l5l4l0l0l0l0l249l670l0.3.1l4l0

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

We are either for God, or against God

hmhm

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

If we are for God, we will accept His Son Jesus the Christ and then its all good Very Happy

Yeh, I saw the vids, I got it

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Hope we will meet at God's place in the afterlife Cool

May I please have a brochure and I will get back to you,
(thats sarcasm Börje, or was it..)

Last edited by AT_Stalky on Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:19 pm; edited 1 time in total

#25: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:12 am
—

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Now would such an amazing being set it up so people could go in any direction to find Him?
What would be the sense of that? Confused

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Actually, Even the old Romans understood that more is better then less, remember the proverb: “All roads leads to Rom”

Thats because the Romans built all the roads from Rome.
Your comment was irrelevant in so many ways i have no time to list them,... here is one:
Roads exist in the physical material world and none lead to God in the Spiritual realm.

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Would it be logical to for him to make 2 opposite directions to come to Him, or would it make more sense to have ONE direction for ONE destination?

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Yes, back to where you started (provided you dont deviate in direction).
Going around in circles will never lead to God Rolling Eyes

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Just “maybe” god can actually handle more than one thing at the time…

Of course He can, but God knows of your inability to cope with complexity so he gave you one simple path to Himself

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

God is neither human, nor limited. God cannot be compared with humanaity any more than humans can be compared with fish, or micro-organisms.

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Actually, if you look at the microbiology, it reviles that we all use the same blue prints, possible made by one guy. So of coarse we can be compared.

Yes, the code that all DNA is written with is one of God's masterpieces Very Happy

Clearly what i meant went over your head.............
now i shall spell it out for you.........
The comparitive diference between tiny, finite human inteligence and God's infinte intelect is far greater than the difference between, lets say, Einstein's inteligence, and the inteligence of plankton.

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

and it turned out that if god operates as you say he does, he must be more cruel than the most defect human parent. And we would call that parent cruel and loveless, and as we are not operating under a double standard, we would have to call god the same thing: “cruel”, simply for he do the same thing as the defect parent.. But, I don’t believe god only has one road to his kingdom, because I don’t like some others, believe he’s cruel and simple minded and rigid as a lump of concrete…

Now please explain where you find the cruelty of God in what i wrote about Him?

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

(thats sarcasm Sheldon). Razz

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Its actually irony, Börje.. But who’s counting…

Actualliy it was sarcasm, so you are wrong again.. But who’s counting… Wink

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Oh I see. You’re a Baptist? and you guys know how god operates... I see I see. I must learn more.. ::

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Link

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Cool, god hates 99.999% of all humans, and they have found that in the bible! Impressive, with quotes and everything.. I just have to learn more…

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Oh, cool. Thers a ton of things the baptist say god loves and hates and how things should be done,

PMSL

The Westburro baptist church are a hate cult and have no friends in the Australian Baptist Union of which my local church is a member.
The Wesburro church of Hate says all Australians are sodomites and they hate Australians so much that they were cheering when people were dying during the bushfires and floods we had recently.
But i am sure that you are not stupid enough to think the Westborro's beliefs represent the beliefs of all baptist worldwide,.....are you?
Certainly hope not, i am sure you are just being silly again.......... Rolling Eyes

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Oh I see. You’re a Baptist? and you guys know how god operates... I see I see. I must learn more.. ::

Just to set you on the right path, here is a website that is about real Baptists
www.baptist.org.au/
Since you seem to want to focus on one single Baptist church congregation to gauge the beliefs of myself as a Baptist, here is the website for my local church: www.vhbc.org.au/

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

dont give up on me AGS,

Fear not, i shall not give up on you Very Happy

despite the seemingly deranged state of your mind (God can even heal you!)

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

im trying,

Yes, you are very trying Rolling Eyes

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

but its so hard...

What videos are you watching now?
Thats not youtube, thats redtube! Shocked

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

If we are for God, we will accept His Son Jesus the Christ and then its all good Very Happy

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Yeh, I saw the vids, I got it

Not sure what you got, i didn't bother checking the videos because i have already seen enough of the Westborro church to know they are full of BS

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Hope we will meet at God's place in the afterlife Cool

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

May I please have a brochure and I will get back to you,
(thats sarcasm Börje, or was it..)

If not, the Brochure is in Rev.21

cheers

AGS

_____

Last edited by ArmeeGruppeSud on Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:36 am; edited 2 times in total

#26: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: MajorFrank,

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:28 am
—
AGS,

why don't you go and attack the other religions like the WBC. Or are non-religious your no. 1 enemy?

#27: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: southern_land,

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:51 am
—
bah hahaha

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#28: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:45 am
—

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Ok AT_Stalky your last post proved that you are clearly not interested in any inteligent discussion on the topic, you would rather just be silly Rolling Eyes

I see, you view of things is serious and right, and anyone who have opposing views are just silly and not intelligent..
Impressive arguments.

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Please place you silly response here>.........................

Se a bow answer--

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Thats because the Romans built all the roads from Rome.

This debate is not about physical road construction. The idea that you missed, was that thers not just one singe path that leads to... the center.. or ..god..

All roads lead to Rome definition: All paths or activities lead to the center of things.

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Your comment was irrelevant in so many ways i have no time to list them,... here is one: Roads exist in the physical material world and none lead to God in the Spiritual realm.

We was not debating physical road construction, but spiritual things, See answer a bow----

Okay, did you got the roman road thing from the same place you found this:

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

1)It was only the ludicrous suggestion that churches "promoted wars" to which i was objecting and you have given absolutely no support for that false accusation.

And:

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

2) Don't mention the "Crusades" either, the leaders who misled the people were not christians, they just used the peoples faith to trick them into wars of plunder. "]

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

3) The very 1st city sacked, butchered and plundered by the crusaders was a christian city!

1)How many Crusades where there? I mean, I count at least 9..
2)Okay, the wars was not stared by Christian? Dint Pope Urban II started one.. and dint pope Gregorious VIII start one, dint the pope Eugenius III start one.. and pope.. and pope.. start one… But then of cause we can’t call the pope a Christian can we?
3)Okay, so that was the MO of ALL the crusades, (c) AGS “-first we plunder a Christian city, then we continue…”

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Would it be logical to for him to make 2 opposite directions to come to Him, or would it make more sense to have ONE direction for ONE destination?

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Yes, back to where you started (provided you dont deviate in direction).

Borrow you neighbours football, and set your finger at any point on it, then go out in multi directions and you will end up at the exact opposite side of the football, that’s the focal and the meeting point. ...

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Now please explain where you find the cruelty of God in what i wrote about Him?
Please place you silly response here>.........................

Where did I explicitly say that you said god was cruel?
But if he operates like you say he does, you know the "parent – child analogy"… Then we would call the parent cruel, and if we don’t operate under double standard, we must also call god cruel because he does what the cruel parent does..
So if that how you say god operates.. Me, I doubt that.

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Actualliy it was sarcasm, so you are wrong again. Razz

OK I have to belive you.,

Sarcasm: definition for you: “In sarcasm, ridicule or mockery is used harshly, often crudely and contemptuously, for destructive purposes. It may be used in an indirect manner, and have the form of irony, as in,...... ”

So you’re delibreately being destructive toward me? Is that what you confess to?

Relax AGS, implicitly its irony..

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

But i am sure that you are not stupid enough to think the Westborro's beliefs represent the beliefs of all baptist worldwide,.....are you?

Thanx for clearing that out AGS. I was a bit suspicious I must confess, there was something wrong in the vids... I should have understood and seen the warning signes: "all the sucking up to god", and all the Hallelujah and...
Tragic, they think god is of a personality type who likes when ppl suck up to him..
I was taken on a ride by a false prophet, I also believe god prefers a more dignified relation with his creations.

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

The Westburro baptist church are a hate cult

"hate cult”.. Yeh grate idea, lets label them we dislike or dont agree with .. .

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

The Westburro baptist church are a hate cult and have no friends in the Australian Baptist Union of which my local church is a member.

So you mean that hard core christens may be on the wrong track, even though they use all the impressive quote from the bible and talk in gods name, and say what god likes and how god operates?
Hm, what can we lean from this,

Take care AGS, may god bless you

/Them

#29: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:28 pm
—

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

AGS,

why don't you go and attack the other religions like the WBC. Or are non-religious your no. 1 enemy?

MajorFrank!

You appear to have totally lost your grasp of reality Shocked

Firstly, i am attacking nobody, please withdraw your malicious false accusation.

The truth is, i am merely defending my faith from attacks, including your attacks.

Was it not you who began this thread with accusations (attacks) against christians?

Secondly, now why don't you go and attack the other religions like Judaism, islam hinduism shintuism, taoism or Budhists? Wink

Or are christians your no. 1 enemy? Razz

Cheers

AGS

_____

#30: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:19 pm
—
Okay, here we have the next logic analogy:

Setting: Parents and child - > God the creator of humans.
Logic: 1 comes before 2. 2 is more than 1.
Limits: No double standard is allowed, if A does something “bad”, we must also recognise that if B does the same thing, he’s also ”bad”.

So, according to hard core Christians, the bible is holy, and through Jesus we reach gods kingdom.

Eternal wisdom, and love and endless knowledge:
By accepting Jesus as our saviour we may enter god’s kingdom. If not, we are axed. Problems, the first bibles may have been on the market in the 400 century?? The bibles was few.. Supply was limited.. But this don’t bother god, he just axed all human souls that had not accepted Jesus as there saviour..
The instructions book god has in his head, is called: “The holy bible” in short he calls the instructions manual the: "Bible"

The parent and the children:
For an unknown reason, the father draw up rules that his children must follow, or the child will be axed at a given age.
The father doesn’t wright down the rules in a book nor communicate this to the child. At a given age, the father judge the childNo1, and as the child has not obeyed the rules his father has drawn up in his head though not communicated, he axes the childNo1. This must be the right thing to do, according to the hard core Christians, for that’s what god would do in this situation to someone who hasn’t “submitted” to Jesus ..

The instructions book the father has in his head, is called: “How My Children Shall Suck Up To Me And Obey Me” in short he call the instructions manual: HMCSSUTMAOM

Lets continue, times goes, and the HMCSSUTMAOM is now printed and in grater supply:
The father now has many children, at different places on the planet. Let’s say for arguments sake that the father is an explorer and meet many women.

Child No2 is given a copy of the newly made book named: HMCSSUTMAOM, the child is also given schooling, so he can now read. He also has all the time in the world to studie it as his mother is rich. There’s also plenty grownups that tells childNo2 the importance of reading the HMCSSUTMAOM and totally submit to it, or else his father will axe him at a given age.
The father comes to the childNo2 at the given age, and observe the child. It’s clear that the child follow the instructions in HMCSSUTMAOM, thus he doesn’t axe the childNo2. According to the father, this is a good child.

At another place on the planet, childNo3 lives. It’s a poor nation, BUT they actually have a copy of the HMCSSUTMAOM in the local book store. But, the childNo3 is the single child in the family, and he provides for his sick mother and old grandparents. The small income he brings home is barely enough to provide for em all. He has neither the time nor the money to pay for an education, the spare time available he use by relaxing and drinking a few home brew beers… And no grownup has told childNo3 the importance of reading his fathers instruction manual: HMCSSUTMAOM..
The father come to visit childNo3, at that give age, and observe the child. Its clear that the childNo3 doesn’t suck up to the father, and don’t follow the instructions found in HMCSSUTMAOM. According to the father, the childNo3 is a lost child, he axes the child. According to the father, this is a bad child.
This must be the right thing to do, according to the hard core Christians, for that’s what god would do in this situation to someone who hasn’t “submitted” to Jesus ..

Again we move even further away, to the jungle where the “nature” people lives. Here lives childNo4, non of em ever heard of the father who just came by the village one night, and nine month later…
This kid has grown, and is now like most kidz, playing and are a joy to his mother. And he does help her sometime when she nagged him a bit. Actually, many of his friends come to him for advice, and the old man in the village say that, one day, perhaps this childNo4 will be a spiritual leader in the village. (Oh, a heathen spiritual leader according to Christian hard corers). Anyway, non here ever heard of the HMCSSUTMAOM, non can read in this jungle, yeh they can read natures signs, but not the..
Anyway, the father come to visit childNo4, at that give age, and observe the child. It’s clear that the childNo4 doesn’t suck up to the father, and don’t follow the instructions to be found in HMCSSUTMAOM. According to the father, the childNo4 is a lost child, According to the father, this is a bad child. As the father is about to axes the bad child, childNo4 argues, that his father is unfair, as he wasn’t told about the HMCSSUTMAOM, nor given a copy of the HMCSSUTMAOM, and wasn’t taught to read the HMCSSUTMAOM…
The father say, sorry ChildNo4, this is the way I operates my parenthood. Axing the childNo4 must be the right thing to do, according to the hard core Christians, for that’s what god would do in this situation to someone who hasn’t “submitted” to Jesus ..

IMO, the father is unfair and cruel for not giving the HMCSSUTMAOM to all children, and for not providing time and schooling to all of em.
Now, it seems that this is how the hard core Christians mean that god operates his business, if that’s so, wouldn’t god be unfair and cruel?

Why do I doubt that god operates like this, I don’t believe he’s unfair or cruel.

Last edited by AT_Stalky on Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:55 pm; edited 4 times in total

#31: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:33 pm
—

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

I see, you view of things is serious and right, and anyone who have opposing views are just silly and not intelligent..

To put it in simple terms,....no

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Thats because the Romans built all the roads from Rome.

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

This debate is not about physical road construction. The idea that you missed, was that thers not just one singe path that leads to... the center.. or ..god..

Actually i did not miss that.
The statement that All roads lead to Rome is only true of Roman built roads.
Your analogy would not be silly if you were suggesting

All roads built by Rome, to Rome, lead to Rome Thus: All paths to God, made by God, lead to God

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

However, these Christians, they uphold Jesus as their guiding idol and promote stuff like wars

Re: Churches promoting wars

Tense = present

evidence = nil

Ok, if you want to be silly

Statement: Atheist are bloodthirsty murderous villains

Where shall i start............

Don't have to look far back in time

Evidence: Adolf Hitler

Evidence: Joseph Stalin

Evidence: Pol Pot

There, argument proven Rolling Eyes

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Would it be logical to for him to make 2 opposite directions to come to Him, or would it make more sense to have ONE direction for ONE destination?

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Yes, back to where you started (provided you dont deviate in direction).

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Great analogy now in this concept of reaching God, must you split yourself in two and continue in opposite directions until you meet yourself, then you have found God?
Actually, on a sphere, if you continue any any direction, you will never end up in any particular spot, you will just go around in circles.

For your line of thinking to have any creedence, God has to be on the opposite side of the sphere.

Seriously, if God iis so easy to reach because you can go in any direction, believe any religion or disbelieve everything, live any way you like with no regard at all for anything including God, then there is no point any in going in any direction, or having any morals.
Hmmm....., then do the paths lying cheating, stealing killing, raping all lead to God also?

Sorry, but the any and all directions way to God concept does not hold water, does not float, it has nothing

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Would it be logical to for him to make 2 opposite directions to come to Him, or would it make more sense to have ONE direction for ONE destination?

The question still stands

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Now please explain where you find the cruelty of God in what i wrote about Him?
Please place you silly response here>.........................

[quote="AT_Stalky";p="62984"]Where did I explicitly say that you said god was cruel?

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

But if he operates like you say he does, you know the "parent – child analogy"

Excuse me, the parent child analogy was yours.

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Then we would call the parent cruel, and if we don’t operate under double standard, we must also call god cruel because he does what the cruel parent does.. So if that how you say god operates..

No, thats entirely your words
My question still remains unanswered

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Now please explain where you find the cruelty of God in what i wrote about Him?

The question still stands

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Actualliy it was sarcasm, so you are wrong again. Razz

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

So you’re delibreately being destructive toward me? Is that what you confess to?

Relax AT_Stalky, no need to get in a huff
Sarcasm: definition for you: the use of remarks which clearly mean the opposite of what they say,
Sarcasm: definition for you: satirical remarks intended to amuse

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

But i am sure that you are not stupid enough to think the Westborro's beliefs represent the beliefs of all baptist worldwide,.....are you?

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Thanx for clearing that out AGS

Your welcome Smile

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

The Westburro baptist church are a hate cult and have no friends in the Australian Baptist Union of which my local church is a member.

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

So you mean that hard core christens may be on the wrong track, even though they use all the impressive quote from the bible and talk in gods name, and say what god likes and how god operates?

To put it in simple terms,....no
What i will say is, the Bible can be misinterpreted badly, the Westborro church is an example of that.
Have never heard them use the words Love and God in the same sentence.
Rather you hear them regularly talk about God and hate.
It would appear that their God is a God of hate.
This is diametrically opposed to the Christian God, God is Love (1John4:8,16).
It is sometime the case that people will read into the Bible what they want to believe.
Just like some people will often believe what they want to believe:
e.g. One can get to God by going in any direction Razz

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Hm, what can we lean from this,

That you should not totally misinterpret everything i write

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

The Westburro baptist church are a hate cult

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

"hate cult”.. Yeh grate idea, lets label them we dislike or dont agree with ..

Now i doubt if you even watched the videos
Have not noticed much in the way of sucking up to God among the Westburrians, they do preach a lot of hate, or did you not notice?

Ok, now i will answer AT_Stalky style

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

The Westburro baptist church are a hate cult

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

"hate cult”.. Yeh grate idea, lets label them we dislike or dont agree with ..

So you think the Westburro Church preach and express love to everyone

Thankyou for your blessing AT_Stalky
may god bless you too bro

cheers

AGS

______

Last edited by ArmeeGruppeSud on Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:21 am; edited 1 time in total

#32: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: MajorFrank,

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:37 pm
—

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

AGS,

why don't you go and attack the other religions like the WBC. Or are non-religious your no. 1 enemy?

MajorFrank!

You appear to have totally lost your grasp of reality Shocked

Or are christians your no. 1 enemy? Razz

Cheers

AGS

_____

Yes they are. Never had a problem with a Jewish person, a Muslim, or a Hindu, etc. Had plenty of problems with Christians.

Also, I think people should start to fight religion in their own religion/culture first. I know the American way is to go to the other side of the planet and bomb some brown people and call that 'fighting against religion' (Islam). How about starting a little closer to home.

Also part 2, I'm pretty sure that if you are able to convince yourself of creationism and all that stuff, you'll deny all Christian involvement in wars, genocides, etc. in history. So why bother.

Edit. I'll toss you one though.

http://www.evilbible.com/hitler_was_christian.htm

#33: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: Blackstump, Location: Hunter Valley Australia

Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:00 am
—
Can we see some scientific proof of creationism? or is it just theory?

#34: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:51 pm
—

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

Yes they are. Never had a problem with a Jewish person, a Muslim, or a Hindu, etc. Had plenty of problems with Christians.

Well thats probably because you only attack Christians.

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

I'm pretty sure that if you are able to convince yourself of creationism and all that stuff, you'll deny all Christian involvement in wars, genocides, etc. in history.

Only the truth convinces me of creation
There is no denying christian invovlement in wars.
Many Christians have served in the armies of many countries, on both sides in both world wars and other wars.
As far as christians being warmongers, that is pure fantasy.
Humans are warlike creatures, because of the sinful human nature.
Some of these corrupt individuals have used the people's religion to influence them to fight their wars.
If you are gullible enough to believe the anti-christian propaganda and use it as an excuse to reject God's generous offer of eternal salvation through Jesus Christ, then that is your eternal loss.

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

Edit. I'll toss you one though.
http://www.evilbible.com/hitler_was_christian.htm

LOL
People can be so gullible when iit come to believing what suits them.
Hitler was no christian
Being baptised as a catholic in infancy does not a christian make.
It takes a christian to know a christian
"You will know them by their fruit" (Matthew 7:16.20)
"love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, & self-control" (Galatians 5:22f)
Hitler's fruit proved that he was most certainly not a christian
After reading your article it was clear that it only proved Hitler used his catholic background and christian rhetoric for political gain because he knew Germany had a predominantly Christian populatioin.
Hitler hated christianity!
There were thousands of Christian clergy in Dacau concentration camp
Hitler was a darwinist atheist and planned to eradicate christianity after the war
Here, i'll throw you 3 back
http://www.puritanfellowship.com/2007/11/adolf-hitler-hated-christianity.html
http://www.trueorigin.org/hitler01.asp
http://romanchristendom.blogspot.com.au/2010/01/for-record-hitler-hated-christianity.html

#35: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:08 pm
—

Blackstump wrote (View Post):

Can we see some scientific proof of creationism? or is it just theory?

Yes you can Very Happy

Personally, i don't like the word "creationism" but the proof of creation by God.

Just open your eyes, mind and heart.

Look in every and all directions.

The proof is everywhere from microscopic level and out to the stars

It would be easy for me to write a 10-20,000 word essay in answer to your question albeit the constraints of time (my wife has gone to bed and is waiting (gulp).

I'll just slip a quick one in,....

All codes are written by somebody, right, now ask yourself, who wrote the DNA code?
(a code so brilliant that modern science's best computers still have not completely figured out)

cheers

AGS

______

Last edited by ArmeeGruppeSud on Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:43 am; edited 1 time in total

#36: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: MajorFrank,

Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:31 pm
—
AGS,

well why can't you be happy with your own personal faith, why the need for huge global organisations that have throughout history forcibly spread Christianity at the point of a sword? Anything me or atheists have done pales in comparison.

Did you know that the Vatican has one of the most significant intelligence gathering systems in place, second only to the military superpowers (USA, Russia, etc.). Why would a nice, benign organisation need these capabilities?

Btw all the stuff in the Hitler - link I posted is fact. Hitler was brought up as a Christian, same with Stalin who even went into priesthood. And also, paganism (which your link claims Hitler professed to later in his life) is also a form of religion.

#37: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:03 pm
—

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Not sure what you got, i didn't bother checking the videos because i have already seen enough of the Westborro church to know they are full of BS

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

What i will say is, the Bible can be misinterpreted badly, the Westborro church is an example of that.

Are you sure about that AGS? Do You believing in the holy bible AGS?

Well the vids clearly shows that WB Baptist hates gay people, and they do that because god hates gay ppl, and it says so in the bible..

Seems WB Baptist are right, Gods issues with homosexuals go back a long time:
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13)

And gods hate seem to continue:

"Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other.
Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. (Romans 1:24-32)”

To read the full text click:

Hidden:

I also found this:

The falsification of the bible, it seems in some newer bible text, some or even all of gods cruelness has been washed out, wonder why? Here it seems that god conduct collective cruel punishment to a whole town, just becoause some dont listen to a stranger and dont take him in to his house..? :

This is Luke 6:11 in different versions, the first one is the literary translation, the others are the newer versions:

Luke 6:11 literary translation:
“and as many as may not receive you, nor hear you, going out thence, shake off the dust that is under your feet for a testimony to them; verily I say to you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom or Gomorrah in a day of judgment than for that city.' “

Luke 6:11 later versions:
“In some places the people will not take you in. They will not listen to what you say. When you leave such a town, shake the dust off your feet. That will be a warning to them. I tell you the truth. On the day when people are judged, the people in that town will be punished harder than the people in the country of Sodom and Gomorrah. “

Luke 6:11 later versions:
“And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.”

Luke 6:11 later versions:
“If you come to a town where people do not welcome you or will not listen to you, leave it and shake the dust off your feet. That will be a warning to them!”

Luke 6:11 later versions:
“And wherever people will not welcome you or listen to what you have to say, leave them and shake the dust off your feet as a protest against them!”

Luke 6:11 later versions:
“And whatsoever place shall not receive you nor hear you, departing thence, shake off the dust which is under your feet for a testimony to them”

Luke 6:11 later versions:
“And whatsoever place shall not receive you, and they hear you not, as ye go forth thence, shake off the dust that is under your feet for a testimony unto them. “

Luke 6:11 later versions::
“If a place doesn’t welcome you or listen to you, as you leave, shake the dust off your feet as a witness against them.”

Cant help it AGS, it seems that one can’t trust the “good” Christian people who does the bible translations, it seems they indulge in falsification of gods holy bible..

Don’t this pose a problem when christans make all them quotes of the bible that they mean is gods words and his will and rules… ?? I mean, the immediate question that popes up in my heads is, what version does he quote, what whitewash has it gone through, or even bleach baths has it been soaking in??

Is it possible a problem to be a literal believer of the bible, I mean, the question will always be: literal believer of which bible version...

/S

#38: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: MF_Church,

Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:56 am
—
Wow. I AM not the only one who has been busy this work week (and I just got back to CCS forum now. :)

Quik ~review~ Words are mighty. And God's words would be that And more!

Been alot of Sword Swinging in here Wink

Solomon's Sword divided wonderfully because of it's DISCERNMENT.

If God the Father SENT God the (Holy) Spirit because God the Son asked Him to when He returned back to heaven... so as

to DWELL among mankind (btw... that is Eternal LIFE)

to HELP(er) each who open their hearts (spirit)

to discern which words are True(th) or which words are from God or not.

God's gift (of the Holy Spirit) first leaves us not orphan & 2nd aquaints us with the Author or Inspirator of the words of script.

Quik Lesson of bible MESSage.

Mankind fell. (Away from God)

How? About 1/3rd of another race of beings (1st ones created by God) fell (angels) and their Leader help create the 2nd falling away.

Soooo our new god or creator of this mess gets most of our directed 'distain' at the original Creator.

And sooooo the bible has been written to simply tell us that mankind needs a resCUREr and that One will be sent.

:)

Now God the Holy Spirit works also outside of those without Him. PLUS, in the original design mankind still has ears that can hear Truth (discern) Like our tongue can taste. (discern: good from bad tastes).

Line upon line, Precept upon precept (preception) is how God Teaches(er). Words. Ears.

So lets not cut off Ears as we 'share'. Wink

We need em ! to discern with. Very Happy

Last edited by MF_Church on Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:01 am; edited 1 time in total

#39: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: MF_Church,

Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:57 am
—
God made Mose's brother Aaron a leader of His priests. The High Priest.

Now today, in God's 2nd or 'New' agreement (covenant) He made a New High Priest. One that will last forever. A full man and fully God. :)

So the 1st is fullfilled in the 2nd.

Why?

Mankind needed to Restart.

The 1st Adam needed a new Adam.

The 2nd Adam calls to the 1st (and his descendance)

* Jesus said, "Let him who has EARS, to hEAR... the call, (of the HOLY Spirit) to "Come". (to Him/Jesus).

:)

#40: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:26 am
—

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

well why can't you be happy with your own personal faith,

Actuall, i am Very Happy

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

why the need for huge global organisations that have throughout history forcibly spread Christianity at the point of a sword?

{A}There are no such organisations. They don't exist and if they did, i would not be part of them, your question is quite irrelevant Rolling Eyes

{B}You keep delving into the past, especially into the Dark Ages a period in history when true christianity was virtually non-existant.
The pure Christianity that was present in the 1st 3-5 centuries AD did not appear again notably until the Reformation in the 1500s.
You can rant on all you like about the sins of the Catholic church during the dark ages and it has absolutely no relationship to modern evangelical christianity and my faith.

{C} So why do you persist with irrelaveant questions?

{D} Throughout history, Christianity has spread, without force despite various groups trying to stop christianity with force!.
Yes, only during the "Dark Ages" did some christianish groups (ie teutonic knights and Spanish Conquistadors) spread christianish beliefs by force (which is totally against the christian way).

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

Anything me or atheists have done pales in comparison.

Even all of the worst atrocities of the Catholic church in 2000 years, combined, pales in comparisons to the crimes against humanity of of just one of the modern atheist monsters:
Communist USSR under Stalin and Nazi Germany under Hitler, each on their own, were responsible for more atrocities, deaths etc than 2000 years of the corrupt Catholic Church (that includes the Spanish inquisition and the Teutonic Knights)

So your statement so so incredibly wrong it is ludicrous!

You should actually do some thorough research before you write uninformed things on a forum.

In just the last hundred years atheistic regimes have exacted a cataclysmic toll in crimes against humanity.

Also Maoist China alone would have butchered more people in its own country than the corrupt Catholic church did in 2000 years.
Then there is Pol Pot (another christian you say? Rolling Eyes

Oh, he spent a year in a Catholic school, that proves he is a genuine Christian LOL) Nicolae Ceau?escu, WHAT!?, his mother went to church once, so Nicolae Ceau?escu must have been a christian Rolling Eyes

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

Did you know that the Vatican has one of the most significant intelligence gathering systems in place, second only to the military superpowers (USA, Russia, etc.).

Not my concern, i am a Protestant, not a Catholic and i am very critical of Catholicsm because it has been corrupted by human and pagan thinking.
The Catholic Church is not what Christianity is about, it has nothing to do with me or my faith and i have nothing to do with it.
If you have a problem with Catholicism, thats fine, so do i, we are on the same side (kind of) Smile

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

Btw all the stuff in the Hitler - link I posted is fact.

With the notable exception of all the conclusions, which are 100% wrong! You will find far more facts and actual correct conclusions in the links i provided.
Hitler was not a christian, he was an enemy of the church!
If you are gullible enough to believe the anti-christian propaganda and use it as an excuse to reject God's generous offer of eternal salvation through Jesus Christ, then that is your eternal loss.

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

Hitler was brought up as a Christian, same with Stalin who even went into priesthood.

Both Hitler and Stalin are like you MajorFrank, they had christianish upbringings but both left that behind and were definately, unquestionably secular atheists throughout their political careers. Hitler and Stalin were not christians, they were enemies of the church. If you are gullible enough to believe the anti-christian propaganda and use it as an excuse to reject God's generous offer of eternal salvation through Jesus Christ, then that is your eternal loss.

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

And also, paganism (which your link claims Hitler professed to later in his life) is also a form of religion.

Yes, paganism is a form of religion.
Though you misread the fact that Hitler did not believe in it, he just wanted to use it to replace christianity.
Hitler was a fanatic of all things "German" so he wanted to institutionalise the old Germanic religion.

If you are interested in the actual TRUTH (if you can handle it), genuine Christians have not been the cause for a single war, or massacre, or notable atrocity, ever!

Generally, Christians have been the victims of such atrocities.

To this very day, thousands of christians are the victims of persecution and hundreds are martyred every year worldwide.

http://www.persecution.net/
http://www.allaboutfollowingjesus.org/voice-of-the-martyrs.htm
http://martyrsforchrist.blogspot.com.au/
http://www.persecution.com.au/

So realy, you have things completely back to front!

Cheers

AGS

_____

Last edited by ArmeeGruppeSud on Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:31 am; edited 2 times in total

#41: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:30 am
—
G'day AT_Stalky

To begin with, i shall apologise unreservedly for accussing you of making "silly replies"
There was probably some misunderstanding of you on my part as i believe that English is not your primary language.
Therefore i have retracted/removed the the comments that may have offended you. Cool

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Not sure what you got, i didn't bother checking the videos because i have already seen enough of the Westborro church to know they are full of BS

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

What i will say is, the Bible can be misinterpreted badly, the Westborro church is an example of that.

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Are you sure about that AGS?

]. Yes

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Do You believing in the holy bible AGS?

. Yes

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Well the vids clearly shows that WB Baptist hates gay people, and they do that because god hates gay ppl, and it says so in the bible..

The vids clearly show that the Westburro church say that God hates everybody except them:

Westburro Church wrote:

GOD HATES FAGS

GOD HATES AMERICA

GOD HATES AUSTRALIA

GOD HATES EUROPE

GOD HATES ASIA

GOD HATES AFRICA

Actualyy, i think that God is not too fond of the Westburro people because they misrepresent him so badly.

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Cant help it AGS, it seems that one can’t trust the “good” Christian people who does the bible translations, it seems they indulge in falsification of gods holy bible..

Again it occurs that incorrect, erroneous conclusions result from poor and inadequate research.
Your 1st error was the verse you trying to quote is actually MARK 6:11,.. not LUKE 6:11

The second mistake you made is in relation to the fact that the original New Testament manuscripts were written in ancient Greek.
Now modern English translations of the New Testament are made from 2 seprate ancient Greek manuscripts.
Now in one of those ancient Greek manuscripts, that we shall call "docA," the 2nd part of Mark 6:11 was not included (thats the part mentioning Sodom & Gomorah).

Now the 1st 3 English translations that you quoted were translated from the other ancient Greek manuscript, docB. The following 5 English translations that you quoted were translated from docA.

The minor diferences that occur amongst your quotes 1-3 and amongst quotes 4-8 are negligable, they are simply paraphrases. Thus the essential meanings of quotes 1-3 are exactly ther same and the essential meanings of quotes 4-8 are exactly ther same.

Therefore your theory of alleged falsification and whitewashing of scripture over time is completely unfounded, as the main difference occured nearly 2000 years ago.

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Is it possible a problem to be a literal believer of the bible, I mean, the question will always be: literal believer of which bible version...

Well, i dont think there are many/any 100% "literal" believers of the Bible.
This is because large quantities of the scripture within the Bible are alegorical in nature, which uses many metaphores.
For example, many of the parables of Jesus Christ are alegorical and the book of revelations is virtually all alegororical.
Essentially, there is little difference in meaning in the many translations of the Bible.
The biggest essential difference in Bibles is that the Catholic bible includes several other books (called the Apocrypha) that are not included the the bibles used by Protestant churches.
Also, cults such as the Jehovah Witnesses do have falsified versions of the bible to suit their blasphemous teachings.

But regardless what translation is used, it is God's Holy Spirit that gives the believer an understanding of the truth, no matter what version he/she is reading.

Personally, when i am doing bible study, i use a computer program that show the same verse in 6 different bible versions simultaneously, just so i can get a broader view of the scripture in question.
The program also includes Greek and Hebrew concordances so i can view the original manuscripts.

So to give you a brief summarical answer to your query:

Its not a problem mate Very Happy

cheers

AGS

_____

Last edited by ArmeeGruppeSud on Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:56 am; edited 4 times in total

#42: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:33 am
—
G'day MF_Church

welcome to the fray

if you dont wish wave your spiritual sword about in here, some prayer support would be more than welcome Very Happy

GBU brother

cheers

AGS

_____

#43: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:47 pm
—
Misstake. Delete

Last edited by AT_Stalky on Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:07 pm; edited 1 time in total

#44: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:50 pm
—
Misstake. Delete

Last edited by AT_Stalky on Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:08 pm; edited 7 times in total

#45: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:21 pm
—
Misstake. Delete

#46: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: MajorFrank,

Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:48 pm
—
AGS,

are you ok with the force-baptizing of the Australian aboriginals?

#47: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:40 am
—

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

AGS,

are you ok with the force-baptizing of the Australian aboriginals?

To put it simply................... no

Also, i disagree with infant baptism.

For more clarification, i shall quote myself:

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

As a member of the Baptist Church, we believe in "Believer's Baptism" which means a person can only be Baptised by their own choice.

If you had read my post on page 2 of this thread, you would have never bothered to ask the question

cheers

AGS

_____

#48: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: kawasaky, Location: Zagreb, Hrvatska

Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:51 am
—
So much talibanism around here...

#49: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: MajorFrank,

Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:23 pm
—

kawasaky wrote (View Post):

So much talibanism around here...

Hi Kawasaky,

well I've come to the realisation that if I converse about these issues with a religious person, doesn't really matter what religion they are, a verbal altercation ensues. Possibly even a physical fight if it's an IRL conversation. I don't like fights, I'm actually a pretty peaceful guy. So I solve this by not conversing with religious people. I don't feel like I'm losing out much.

Then again I don't like to feel like I'm evading or running away from situations because I try to avoid a confrontation with religious people.

#50: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: MF_Church,

Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:08 am
—
Correct me if I am wrong, but I think it goes like this ? "Watch & pray" < quote from Jesus. (or the other way around??) Smile

Which seems to make More sense. ( Pray & watch).

I would like to thank all three for their input recently in here.

1/ To MajorFrank in a major way to be very frank. Without his 'Post' of this thread my watchful ~ prayer for just such a thing would still be in the watchful/prayer state only. TU.

2/ Glad to be here, gathering the frayed parts of 'our' thread. Wink

ArmeeGSud. Double thanks to u too! for the deletes!

3/ TalibanINGS. Hmmmmmm Smile

I think we can all agree. Better there than here. (Arm'S Length is always a Good thing.)

Sooo keep up! the good work in here.

#51: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: US_Brake, Location: USA

Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:48 am
—

Link

Last edited by US_Brake on Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:50 am; edited 1 time in total

#52: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: kawasaky, Location: Zagreb, Hrvatska

Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:50 pm
—

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

kawasaky wrote (View Post):

So much talibanism around here...

HEHEHE!

As an (per Abrahamic faiths followers beliefs) atheist in the 88% Catholic country I completely understand you.

#53: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: LoneRebel,

Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:02 pm
—
Gee, AGS sure gets fired up about religious discussions. Very Happy

I'm Catholic, but I don't feel the need to get into arguments about my faith. This is because "faith", as defined by Merriam-Webster, is "firm belief in something for which there is no proof." So since matters of faith (i.e. the existence of God) cannot be proved by any means, what in the world is the point of arguing over it? Exactly. Nothing. Waste of time. If God exists, he will continue existing regardless of what atheists say about him, right? Rolling Eyes

I'm not an atheist, but I'm not going to pick fights with atheists either. Sadly, I am forced to agree with them on many points; the self-righteousness and arrogance of many of my fellow adherents is, quite frankly, repulsive. And it's also true that religion has been a source of division just as much as it has been a source of unity. And it's also true that people have killed each other because of religion. (i.e. he follows a different religion from me, so I want to kill him.) You will notice that the faithful killing others because of religion, has throughout history been far more common than atheists killing others because of their atheism. Laughing

#54: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: kawasaky, Location: Zagreb, Hrvatska

Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:27 pm
—

LoneRebel wrote (View Post):

So since matters of faith (i.e. the existence of God) cannot be proved by any means, what in the world is the point of arguing over it? Exactly. Nothing. Waste of time. If God exists, he will continue existing regardless of what atheists say about him, right? Rolling Eyes

Yep, there's no point in arguing about non-existence of god, and it is irrelevant if it exists or not. What IS relevant is the use of religion (often confused with "faith" - deliberately) in daily politics. Believe what you will, I couldn't care less, but sheer number of believers that makes them a majority doesn't give them the right to push their beliefs upon those who believe not.
It is purely a tyranny of a majority in the very private field of life, that is no one's business but one's own. Europeans were smart enough to introduce secularism after the Thirty years war, one of the worst in history of Europe. One atheist and/or one person of different faith in the body of a nation is a reason enough for secularism, or, it would be a tyranny towards that one person, and if we claim to be democratic, than we don't want to by tyrannts.

About the other half of the claim - I don't agree that there's anything we cannot grasp by means of knowledge, provided by all means, but principally science. It is just a matter of time. Just look at the modern physiycs. Physics, being a natural philosophy through observation and measurement, is nowdays more metaphysics then anything else - and it goes back to mamma - philosophy.
Origins of universe, paralell universes, measurement problem in quantum mechanics etc. dwell more in the realm of philosophy than the realm of natural science - or, it is so if you look at "natural", "humanistic" and "social" science(s) as differentiated. And that they are not. All are just different ASPECTS of the same ONE thing. That one thing may be a god as portrayed by the all three Abrahamic religions, although from the pool of the human knowledge - it is very unlikely.

As one hypothesis says - we all create our universe through our thoughts and actions and through conscience observation. Therefore, we are all gos, or the god - whatever. There is no and cannot be an entity separate from the universe, and since all came to being from one tiny dot, small enough to be labeled as one, then all is one and one is all - individuality is only a master illusion.

#55: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: MajorFrank,

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:57 am
—
To chime in on this, personally I'm not that interested in the psychology of religion and faith. People can believe what they want, just don't take my money.

Just today I was reading the paper and there was a opinion piece by the freethinkers. They mentioned the sum that the Christian church gets here in Finland through something called the organisation tax.

The organisation tax is something that different types of organisations have to pay to the church. People can separate from the church and thus they don't have to pay the church tax anymore, the church tax is a yearly sum taken from your earnings. However, organisations (private companies etc.) can't separate from the church and thus are always forced to pay this tax.

This involves me because I'm in the process of starting my own small company in the near future. Even a small company has to pay the church tax.

So one can say that even if the church likes to parade itself as an opponent of socialism, they sure aren't no friend of capitalism either.

#56: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: kawasaky, Location: Zagreb, Hrvatska

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:42 pm
—
You're lucky.
My fucking, retarded country signed the treaty with Vatican by which the RCC in Croatia recieves some 50 mil. eur per year directly from the budget. So we all have to pay it, regardless of being a member or not. Can you comprehend that!!? I cannot...

#57: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: MF_Church,

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:04 pm
—
Smile

@ US Brake... i have to see that video afterwards... i just read all of the above first...

And with that in mind, Gentlemen! If I could only let you see what God gave me... inside. I'm NOT trying to tell you about the different Organizations man has made, INCLUDING religious ones.

No. It's so simple. I asked. God gave. And He will give to anyone who asks. Simple Simon. ( Wink

Peter).

If (folks) only knew. And what is it that He gives? Well, He is GOD. So it's BIG. Yup. Eternal life for STARTERS. Then heaven and pure joy forever and that means we get to KNOW Him personally. I know. Sounds Too Good!

That's the kind of GOD He is.

Gospel means Good News. < What an understatement.

Soooo b4 i stop. Let me say, The things that were said above were really well written and good. But, like the bible was written to let us know (enlighten us) we Were cut off from God's Presence. Hence, our lack of experiencing Him and preceiving Him. Ok. That was what i gleaned from reading each post above. And a little known saying sums it up very well, The blind leading the ... cough*, blind. :(

That is what God wants to Give back! Empirical KNOW Him again... experience. FellowShip. Adoption Back into His presence. What a gift!

So forget what you think a church or Religion wants you to give it or take from you. Blind leading the blind. Unless what they say is backed up in the bible... it's not from God. Period.

Keep looking Up! gents! & God Bless You with His ~knowledge of eternal Life. (It's HIM) via the Holy Spirit.

:D Enjoy!

#58: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:03 am
—

kawasaky wrote (View Post):

So much talibanism around here...

Hmmm,........... talibanism?

Have not noticed any signs of Sharia Law here at CCS Confused

Could you pleae explain?

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

well I've come to the realisation that if I converse about these issues with a religious person, doesn't really matter what religion they are, a verbal altercation ensues

Really?

We have been conversing on these issues and we have not entered into a "verbal altercation"..........., no name calling,....nothing. Confused

If you desire to prove this theory, you will have to start writing some insults Wink

LoneRebel wrote (View Post):

Gee, AGS sure gets fired up about religious discussions. Very Happy

Fired up?

If i was any cooler, they would call me the Ice Man Cool

LoneRebel wrote (View Post):

God exists, he will continue existing regardless of what atheists say about him, right?

Definately! Very Happy

But if God decides not to believe in atheists, they WILL dissappear Very Happy

LoneRebel wrote (View Post):

I'm Catholic, but I don't feel the need to get into arguments about my faith ..... ..... ..... ..... I'm not going to pick fights with atheists either.

Neither do i pick fights, i merely defend my faith and bretheren.

LoneRebel wrote (View Post):

Sadly, I am forced to agree with them on many points; the self-righteousness and arrogance of many of my fellow adherents is, quite frankly, repulsive.

Agreed!
The selfrighteousness of many so called (cough) christians is a blight on the faith.
Personally, i have no righteousness of my own, only the righteousness of Christ credited to me through Grace.

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

People can believe what they want, just don't take my money.
..... They mentioned the sum that the Christian church gets here in Finland through something called the organisation tax. .....The organisation tax is something that different types of organisations have to pay to the church.

kawasaky wrote (View Post):

My ..... country signed the treaty with Vatican by which the RCC in Croatia recieves some 50 mil. eur per year directly from the budget. So we all have to pay it, regardless of being a member or not.

Well, i must sympathise and agree with both of you, i think that your governments should not give your money to the church.

In my country and many others, which has a majority of people who believe in creation by God, we pay taxes and some of our taxes are spent paying teachers to teach our children the lie of Godless evolution, because of our secular government. Mad

grrrr @ that

MF_Church wrote (View Post):

Gospel means Good News. < What an understatement.
Keep looking Up! gents! & God Bless You with His ~knowledge of eternal Life.

Well said brother

Please hear this my fellow CC addicts, i don't want your money!

Nor do i want insult you or argue with you Rolling Eyes

What i would like, is for you to enjoy the same gift of God that MF_church, i and many others have been blessed with. Smile

This gift can only be grasped by faith.

This is not about pride, its not about "i'm right and you are wrong".

Its about wanting to share the Love of God with you all.

May there be thousands of CCers in heaven Cool

May God bless you all with the faith that leads to eternal salvation Very Happy

Cheers

AGS

________

#59: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: kawasaky, Location: Zagreb, Hrvatska

Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:39 pm
—

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

kawasaky wrote (View Post):

So much talibanism around here...

Hmmm,........... talibanism?

Have not noticed any signs of Sharia Law here at CCS Confused

Could you pleae explain?

Talib[an] not as a student of wahabism, but as a state of mind.
In that context the one whose glass is fully filled and nothing more can be poured in.

#60: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: MF_Church,

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:59 pm
—
What would it look like... Our position before a Perfect Being of all the Virtues we could think of???

:(

Maybe Life Reversals, daily, little and large ones would then have a logic to them.

Here's a Comment titled True Brokeness. Or brother Ken? sorry! :P

But first a verse from the Good Book...

"All these things My Hand has made, and so all these things came to be, declares the Lord. But this is the one to Whom I will look: he who is humble (me* like God)! and contrite (me like God)!! in spirit and trembles at my ~word. ISAIAH 66:2.

Brokeness is not a feeling or an emotion. Rather, it requires a choice, an act of the will. Further, this choice is not primarily a one-time experience, through there may be profound and life changing spiritual turning points in our lives. 'True brokeness' is an ongoing, constant way of life. True brokeness is a lifestyle- a moment-by-moment lifestyle of agreeing with God about the 'true' condition of my heart and life, not as everyone else thinks it is but as He knows it to be.

Brokeness is the shattering of my self-will--the absolute surrender of my will to the will of God. It is saying, "Yes, Lord"--no resistance, no chafing, no stubborness--simply submitting myself to His direction and will in my life.

Contrite is one word that is used in the Old Testament to speak of brokeness. That word suggest something that is crushed into small particles or ground into powder, as a rock is pulverized. What is it that God wants to pulverize in us? It isn't our spirit He wants to break, nor is it our essential personhood. He wants to break our self-will.

Brokeness is the stripping of self-reliance and independence from God. The broken person has no confidence in his own righteousness or his own works, but he is cast in total depenence upon the 'grace' of God working in and through him/her.

Brokeness is the softening of the soil of my heart--it is the breaking up of any CLODS of resistance that could keep the seed frm penetrating and taking root. I believe one of the reasons many Pastors faithfully preach the Word week after week and see little 'fruit' in the lives of their 'listeners' is that the soil in many of 'OuR' hearts has become so hard and fallow that the seed (God's life) Cannot penetrate. Believers with broken, contrite hearts are receptive and responsive to the WORD.

As wax or Clay must be soft and pliable in order to be molded by the artist's hands, so the broken, contrite heart is easily molded by the Hand of God and does not harden itself against the circumstances God chooses to mold it.

*me ~ oy! and amen ~~ to that... :*)

#61: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: MajorFrank,

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:22 am
—
When one person talks to imaginary creatures, we call that person crazy.

When million people talk to the same imaginary creatures, we call that a religion.

GO FIGURE.

#62: Heated religious discussions (caused by MF) Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:02 pm
—
The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." (Psalms 14:1; 53:1)

The spiritually blind, the short sighted say: "show me God and i will believe"

Here is a parable:

There were millions of enzymes living in the stomach of an elephant.

An enlightenned enzyme said:
"We live inside an elephant, without it, we would not exist"

An extremely ignorant enzyme said to the others:
"I dont believe in this elephant, it is an imaginary creature, show it to me and i will believe"

The elephant is simply way to big for the enzyme to see, his universe is the elephant's stomach and he can see no further.

The truth is; that we exist within the confines of the Universe and, because God is infinte, the Universe exists only within God.
God, being infinite, has no outer boundary, therefore anything thats exists can only exist within.

God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us 'For in him we live and move and have our being.' .(Acts 17:27f).

@ MajorFrank

You started this thread to argue that Christians were insulting and hypocytical.

You last post has proved you to be the hypocrite, clearly your motivation is only to cause trouble by insulting people who believe in the reality of God

Get a life!

If you wake up to reality, you may even get an eternal life Very Happy

Cheers

AGS

#63: Re: Heated religious discussions (caused by MF) Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:47 pm
—

Quote:

When one person talks to imaginary creatures, we call that person crazy. When million people talk to the same imaginary creatures, we call that a religion.

AGS replied:

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

You last post has proved you to be the hypocrite, clearly your motivation is only to cause trouble by insulting people who believe in the reality of God

AGS What the difference from what Major Frank said and what you said before:

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

The Catholic Church is not what Christianity is about, it has nothing to do with me or my faith and i have nothing to do with it. If you have a problem with Catholicism, thats fine, so do i, we are on the same side (kind of)

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Also, cults such as the Jehovah Witnesses do have falsified versions of the bible to suit their blasphemous teachings.

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

If we reject the Son, we reject the Father also, and bring His rejection upon ourselves.

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

If we are for God, we will accept His Son Jesus the Christ and then its all good

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

The Westburro baptist church are a hate cult and have no friends in the Australian Baptist Union of which my local church is a member.

You actually agrees with Major Frank, in all ways but one.
Your opinion seem to be that other people who have a religion are talking to imaginary creatures …. Or "belive" in Christ in the wrong way.
So the only difference with your opinions compared to MajorFranks, seem to be that MajorFrank reject 100% of religious beliefs as imaginary. While you rejects all religions and beliefs as imaginary, well, except you Baptist church, who got it right?

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

clearly your motivation is only to cause trouble by insulting people who believe in the reality of God

Who are?

/Yours

Stalky

#64: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: dj,

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:31 pm
—
The Yankee founding-father Freemasons had it right. Politics and the State don't mix. The State has abused their power countless times in the name of "religion" to justify crimes against humanity or oppression of various peoples. People should be free to practice their particular religion as they wish. But don't try to base political policies or doctrine based on some Fundamentalist radical agenda.

Religious Fundamentalists are one of the main reasons why some parts of the world are stuck in the stone age...they refuse to accept any modern doctrines such as
Science, Education, or practice responsible birth control. Religious tolerance is completely absent. You either accept the State Religious rule or suffer the wraith of the totalitarian regime. Even the people are blood-thirsty mobs that relish the chance to enforce the Fundamentalist rules. They hate democracy, they hate freedom, they hate anyone that dares to have have any dissenting viewpoints.

Admittedly there are numerous factions even here in America that are stuck over a century in the past and would even like to turn the clock back further. Yes and it amazes me how Cult-like factions that hide behind tax-exempt status and call themselves righteous...when they advocate hate, violence or some other twisted agenda. One fundamentalist nut I know even told me that he thinks it is justified to kill political enemies and that "there will be blood". Nuts. I try to avoid these types at all costs.

#65: Re: Heated religious discussions (caused by MF) Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:49 am
—

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

AGS What the difference from what Major Frank said and what you said before:

If you can't already see it, then i doubt if it is possible to explain it to you so that you could comprehend it

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Who are?

If you can't figure that out already, then i doubt if it is possible to explain it to you

Well thats all i have time for as i have a more important threads to attend to.

Cheers

AGS

#66: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: MajorFrank,

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:36 pm
—
AGS,

If you look into it I'm sure you'll find out that the leaders of your religion actually co-operate with other religions. That's how it works on the 'macro' level. So it's not like you say, that your religion would be somehow opposed to, say, Jehova's Witnesses. They all co-operate.

#67: Re: Heated religious discussions Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:20 pm
—

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

i doubt if it is possible to explain it to you so that you could comprehend it

Impressive arguments.

Actually I don’t get it AGS.

You feel insulted when MajorFrank say ALL religious people talking to imaginary creatures.

He’s an atheist, as such he obviously sees no difference between the people who talk to an “imaginary” friend and the people who talks to imaginary gods. This is probably what defines an atheists beliefs, anything else would make no sense.

Why are you offended by this?

At the same time:
You your self has dismissed all path to god as imaginary if one don’t accept Jesus as god’s son and all that. That means that in your view Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Hindu’s, Stalkys and all other religion are just imaginary or do not lead to god. Thus they are just imaginary paths to god or just simply imaginary gods.
Further more: In this thread alone you have also claimed that “Catholic Church is not what Christianity is about” and that Jehovah Witnesses and WB Baptists and other gropes are “blasphemous teachings” and cults.
What puzzles me is that You felt offended by MajorFranks thought that all gods are imaginary, but at the same time...

If we look at what Major Frank say, he rejects 100% of religions as imaginary.
In this regard, the only difference between you and Major frank seems to be the percent level of rejection.
You reject more or less the vast majority of religious believers in the same way as MajorFrank does.

Cant you see that?

/Stalky

#68: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:23 am
—

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

If you look into it I'm sure you'll find out that the leaders of your religion actually co-operate with other religions. That's how it works on the 'macro' level. So it's not like you say, that your religion would be somehow opposed to, say, Jehova's Witnesses. They all co-operate.

So, MF, you are one of conspiracy theorists guys

Well, they don't "all co-operate" that is just your imaginary friend telling you that ;)

cheers

AGS

#69: Re: Heated religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:55 am
—
G'day Stalky

Please forgive me for my terse reply:

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Well thats all i have time for as i have a more important threads to attend to.

Realy, i had more important things to do:
http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=9594

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

AGS What the difference from what Major Frank said and what you said before:

umm, i didn't say anything about anybody talking to imaginary creatures Rolling Eyes

Lets look at how you say i agree with MF:

MF says there is no God and that God is an imaginary creature

AGS totally refutes what MF says, because AGS believes that there is a God and agrees in the reality of God with, 13.4 million Jews, 1.6 billion Muslims and approximately 2.2 billion Christians, which even includes the Westburro Baptist Church (AGS disagrees with some of the WBC's contraversial, unChristian doctrines)

Yep, your right, exactly the same Rolling Eyes

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

You feel insulted when MajorFrank say ALL religious people talking to imaginary creatures.

He’s an atheist, as such he obviously sees no difference between the people who talk to an “imaginary” friend and the people who talks to imaginary gods. This is probably what defines an atheists beliefs, anything else would make no sense.

Why are you offended by this?

Who said i felt insulted, or was offended? Confused

Maybe some readers, who were just simply too shocked Shocked

to react and did not respond were, offended or felt insulted.
Pretty sure those people probably thought:
"If i ignore the troll, it may just go away"

Myself, i thought i would just let MF know that i saw him for what he was:
somebody who is looking for a heated political/religious discussion.

Are you? @ Stalky

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

in your view Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Hindu’s, Stalkys and all other religion are just imaginary

No, i don't think those religions are imaginary, with one exception, they are all real religions
(actually, i think the Stalkys religion is a bit suspect) Wink

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

You actually agrees with Major Frank, in all ways but one

Correct,we agree that the sky is blue, we agree that there are 24 hours in a day, we agree that politics & religion dont mix, we agree that Close Combat games are fun, but MF says there is no God and i say there is a God.

Yep, MF & i only disagree on the last one Smile

WOOHOO, you got it right Very Happy

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

While you rejects all religions and beliefs as imaginary, well, except your Baptist church,

Actually, I dont reject everybody except my Baptist church.
For example, i believe that there will be millions of Catholics in heaven.
Yes, i dont want to be mistaken for a catholic, nor do i want criticisms of the Catholic church to be aimed at me.
In fact i agree with 90-99% of the doctrine of all Christian churches.
Not all false doctrines will impede salvation.

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Impressive arguments

Thankyou

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

You reject more or less the vast majority of religious believers in the same way as MajorFrank does.
Cant you see that?

MajorFrank says God is an imaginary creature. Twisted Evil

Muslims say God's existance is a reality Cool

Catholics say God's existance is a reality Cool

Jews say God's existance is a reality Cool

WBC says God's existance is a reality Cool

AGS says God's existance is a reality Cool

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

[AGS What the difference from what Major Frank said and what you said

MajorFrank's position is diametrically opposed to mine.

Cant you see that?

If you still can't see it, then i doubt if it is possible to explain it to you so that you could comprehend it

CHEERS

AGS

Last edited by ArmeeGruppeSud on Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:48 am; edited 1 time in total

#70: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: MajorFrank,

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:46 am
—

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

So, MF, you are one of conspiracy theorists guys

Well, they don't "all co-operate" that is just your imaginary friend telling you that ;)

cheers

AGS

It's not a conspiracy theory, it's a fact. Don't take my word for it, just look into the matter, for example the leaders of your religion.

All Abrahamic religions co-operate very closely and even the more distant religions co-operate in some way.

This is your religion, right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptist_Union_of_Australia

And "Rev Dr John Beasy" is the 'leader' of your religion?

And btw, why do you talk about "god" all the time? This "god" - figure isn't the only supernatural creature in your religion. So it's not only about a "belief in god" but a belief in the whole religion that has all kinds of weird supernatural creatures in it. And for your reference, I'm certainly not the only one who doesn't believe in that jazz.

#71: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:41 am
—
Hello AGS
First:

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Who said i felt insulted, or was offended? Confused

Hm? I let yer own quotes answer:

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

your motivation is only to cause trouble by insulting people who believe in the reality of God

and:

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

MF-> And I'm not trying to flame anyone. AGS->But you succeed nevertheless

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Seriously, when you make such broad claims, statements and accusations in online forums, i would not be the least bit surprised that some people may have questioned your intelectual capabilities in somewhat sarcastic or demeaning ways

etc..
Seems like comments by a person who is insulted and feel offended?

And also:

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

somebody who is looking for a heated political/religious discussion Are you?

Yeh, seems like the atheist “heated up” at the least one person....

Continue:

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Muslims say God's existance is a reality Cool

Catholics say God's existance is a reality Cool

Jews say God's existance is a reality Cool

WBC says God's existance is a reality Cool

AGS says God's existance is a reality Cool

Yeh.... but the reality is that you claim:

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

If we reject the Son, we reject the Father also, and bring His rejection upon ourselves.

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

If we are for God, we will accept His Son Jesus the Christ and then its all good

etc..

So the path to god through other religion are just imaginary according to you, so...
As I can see, the only diff between what you say and MF say is thus the percentage level of rejection.

Next:

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Maybe some readers, who were just simply too shocked to react and did not respond

So you belive that readers are shocked and paralyzed after reading MajorFranks statement that god is imagenary !?!!!? Who in this world would be shocked when an atheist say god is imaginary??????! I don’t really know what to say. ... ..

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Maybe some readers, who were just simply too shocked to react and did not respond were, offended or felt insulted. Pretty sure those people probably thought: "If i ignore the troll, it may just go away"

Ever thought about how a a Jew, or Hindu, or Buddhist, Catholic, WB Baptist, Scientology or Jehovah’s or any other religion you have issues with will react to what you say?!
I believe that most moderate/tolerant believers of any religion would have more problem listen to a hardcore fundamentalist belonging to there own religion than listen to an atheist.

Regards

/Stalky

#72: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:19 am
—

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Hello AGS
First:

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Who said i felt insulted, or was offended?

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

I let yer own quotes answer:

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

your motivation is only to cause trouble by insulting people who believe in the reality of God

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Seems like comments by a person who is insulted and feel offended

LOOK HERE, i will answer only your very 1st piece of trollop
After that 1st bit, i decided not to bother reading the rest of the post because it would be an utter waste of my time.

Now i am utterly wasting my time by answering the just the beginning of Stalky's post

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Who said i felt insulted, or was offended?

Hm? I let yer own quotes answer:

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

your motivation is only to cause trouble by insulting people who believe in the reality of God

See, i was right, it is a total waste of my time trying explain anything to you because you seem completely unable to comprehend even simple things

now i will spell it out to you

I WAS POINTING OUT THAT HIS MOTIVATION WAS ONLY TO CAUSE TROUBLE BY INSULTING PEOPLE

CLEARLY I DID NOT SAY: that "i FELT INSULTED", or"I WAS OFFENDED",IN THE QUOTE

So your quote of me was only evidence of your lack of,...,hmm, lets say,.. wisdom (could have put many words there, but i opted for the least offensive)

You are just insulting your own intelligence by making foolish assumptions thus making a fool of yourself publically.

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Who said i felt insulted, or was offended? Confused

answer = nobody

The question was rhetorical (get a dictionary and look it up)

OK, now that i have established your last post began with utter #@%&*$@# and having experienced enough of Stalky's trollop before, i was convinced the rest of the post would be more #@%&*$@#, so i chose not to continue reading any further as it would be a total uttter waste of my time reading more trollop, just as it would also be a total, uttter waste of my time to contemplate answerring it.

@ Stalky
If you make a short post with just one question, an intelligent question, i will answer it, if, i have the time.

Stalky, is your goal/aim just to annoy me?

(please dont jump to the foolish assumption that you have suceeded yet, you are just becoming tiresome)

Very Happy

AGS

P.S. please reread my previous post to you 1000 times, maybe then, you will "get it"

#73: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:39 am
—

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Hello AGS
First:

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Who said i felt insulted, or was offended?

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

I let yer own quotes answer:

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

your motivation is only to cause trouble by insulting people who believe in the reality of God

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Seems like comments by a person who is insulted and feel offended

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Who said i felt insulted, or was offended?

Hm? I let yer own quotes answer:

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

your motivation is only to cause trouble by insulting people who believe in the reality of God

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Who said i felt insulted, or was offended? Confused

AGS

P.S. please reread my previous post to you 1000 times, maybe then, you will "get it"

Mate, when reading what you say here in this thread, you come across to me as insulted and offended and heated up.

Quote:

@ Stalky
If you make a short post with just one question, an intelligent question, i will answer it, if, i have the time.

So you allow me to ask you one more question. Thank you.

Actually I pass on that offer, your last post pretty much say it all and thus answer most of my questions, in a way.

/Stalky

#74: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: Blackstump, Location: Hunter Valley Australia

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:54 am
—
Stalk if your running a book on this ( here we call it sp... starting price... were do i get on ?) some good odds there but will need to collect before mid December as my god said so.... is that ok? just need to cover all contingencies. you know, rather have that in my pocket come the rapture and all...

#75: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:28 am
—
:)

Before 21st dec…… mmm, good point.

Yeh, we are here and its now, “in the end, ..”..

#76: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:45 am
—

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Mate, when reading what you say here in this thread, you come across to me as insulted and offended and heated up.

If believing that makes you happy, then go ahead and believe that.

It takes a LOT more than the stuff in this thread to insult me, or get me "heated up"....

Why?

Because i work in an abbatoir, where as a Christian, i cop truckloads of verbal abuse every day.
For me, some of the worst insults are like "water slipping off a duck's back" (ducks are waterproof)
Also, i have an extrordinarily long temper. (Sometimes i wish it was shorter).
But neither do i bottle up stress, i let it out when the need be.

So sorry to dissappoint you, but just go on believing whatever you wish.

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

@ Stalky
If you make a short post with just one question, an intelligent question, i will answer it, if, i have the time.

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

So you allow me to ask you one more question. Thank you.
Actually I pass on that offer.

Thankyou, that is pleasing news Very Happy

This great, because now this means i can devote more time to productive activities like modding,
Oh, i will answer majorFrank's last post because it deserves an answer, despite its basis in conspiracist theorum

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

your last post pretty much say it all and thus answer most of my questions, in a way.

Like i said before, just go on believing whatever you wish.
Your posts have led me to believe it is a waste of time answering your many questions, because, you will continue to believe whatever suits you to believe regardless.........

cheers

AGS

#77: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:37 pm
—

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

So, MF, you are one of conspiracy theorists guys ...... ..... .... ..... ...... ....... .... .... ....... ....... Well, they don't "all co-operate"

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

It's not a conspiracy theory, it's a fact. Don't take my word for it, just look into the matter, for example the leaders of your religion.

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

All Abrahamic religions co-operate very closely and even the more distant religions co-operate in some way. .

Hmmm, yes, if you call the Israeli-Arab wars 1949-1973 co-operation .
Yes, they agreed to fight and kill each other.
The Jewish soldier co-operated with the Muslim soldier by falling down dead when the muslim shot him

Or maybe you speak of the Bahai faith which tries to amalgamate all religions.

Yes, at various times different religions do actually try to get along

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

This is your religion, right?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptist_Union_of_Australia

Well, i don't regard my faith as religion par se as religion is defined as:
Man's efforts to reach God,
Whereas true Christianity is:
recognition of God's successfull reaching down to man through Jesus Christ.

But, yes, that is the organisation that the church i attend is a member of.

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

And "Rev Dr John Beasy" is the 'leader' of your religion?.

No, Rev Dr John Beasy would just be the head administrator of the Union of Australian Baptist Churches.
God, is the ultimate leader of my/our faith. Particularly it is Jesus, who is the author and perfecter of our faith, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. (Hebrews 12:2)

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

So it's not like you say, that your religion would be somehow opposed to, say, Jehova's Witnesses. They all co-operate.

Actually, we do not co-operate with the Jehova's Witnesses. If they come and knock on our doors, we can talk to them, but we are not to invite them into our homes (don't ask, its a long storey 2John1:7-11)

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

And btw, why do you talk about "god" all the time? This "god" - figure isn't the only supernatural creature in your religion.

Correct, God is just the only eternal spiritual being. The only infinite being.
All other spiritual/supernatural beings were created by Him.
There are, at least, millions, if not billions of them, maybe even trillions!
The 2nd most powerful spiritual/supernatural being is, of course, Lucifer/Satan (the devil).
One third of these spiritual/supernatural beings are under Satans command (evil spirits/demons)

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

So it's not only about a "belief in god" but a belief in the whole religion that has all kinds of weird supernatural creatures in it..

Well, yes, sort of, as i dont approve your wording

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

And for your reference, I'm certainly not the only one who doesn't believe in that jazz.

Of course you're not.

You don't need to believe in angels and demons to be saved, but they are an integral part of the reality we live in.

Knowledge of their existance explains much of the things that Psychology and other sciences have no chance of ever comprehending.

In my personal experience i have seen the wonderful freedom and release that people have recieved when they have been freed from demonic influences

Anyway, must go, the wife is calling

Hope to see you and Stalky in heaven when i get there (maybe by then he wont ask irritating questions anymore)

Shocked

just had a thought. What if Stalky is still doing iit?

Very Happy

its OK, God has infinite patience Cool

cheers to all Smile

AGS

#78: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: MF_Church,

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:24 pm
—
Broken.

What If our (God) antenna were? [broken] and we .....

Can't pick ~ up God?

Wouldn't that! be a dilemma?

AND what IF the bible (story{ies}) said that that were just case.

AND no one read OR knew what is In the bible...

(Well where does 'it' say that ~~ "your bad/sins have cut! u off from God").

Sooo ! FIRST check out if the person chatting to us has they read it? (bible) or not.

Who's your Authority? on spirit things/ God.

You know IF that someone read the book or their antenna working again.

Good book > Was it Written? for just that? A Fix for all ~ 'thing' broken.

:D

p.s. check - it - out. Smile

#79: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: MajorFrank,

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:05 pm
—
AGS,

I don't think the Arab-Israeli wars were necessarily wars of religion. I'd say that even during those wars the 'elders' of Islam and Judaism were probably still communicating and dealing with each other. I think nationalism was the main issue and driving force during those conflicts, and still is.

Interesting you guys still preach about Lucifer, hell, etc. I think in ev. lut. faith that I was in, hell hasn't really been a part of the sermons etc. for a long time. Preaching about hell kinda makes the difference between the more extreme and less extreme forms of Christianity.

AT_Stalky,

personally I don't really care much or really at all what religious people think. I used to belong to the ev. lut. church of Finland when I was a kid, only left officially in 2000.

I've been a part of an organisation called Freethinkers, not an official member but I've contributed to their site etc. I enjoy discussing about non-religion with non-religious people, I rarely have disagreements with them.

#80: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:21 am
—

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

I don't think the Arab-Israeli wars were necessarily wars of religion. I'd say that even during those wars the 'elders' of Islam and Judaism were probably still communicating and dealing with each other. I think nationalism was the main issue and driving force during those conflicts, and still is.

Maybe it could be nationalism to some small extent, but if the israelis were muslims, do you really think the Islamic neighbors would still be making such a fuss?

Just look at Syria!

The Muslim nations a just sitting around doing bugger all, while the Syrian government slaughters more muslims every day that the Jewish Israelis kill Palestinians in a year!

They just say: "Stop that, don't be so naughty".

The Jews and Muslims only co-operate in mutual destruction

Obviously Finland has not got a significant growing islamic invasion happenning yet.

In Australia, our secular (atheist) government is co-operating with the islamic illegal immigrants and is bending over and allowing them to islamify Australia because of "Political Correctness" which mean that minorites have extra rights and special treatment that the rest of us don't get.

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

Interesting you guys still preach about Lucifer, hell, etc. I think in ev. lut. faith that I was in, hell hasn't really been a part of the sermons etc. for a long time. Preaching about hell kinda makes the difference between the more extreme and less extreme forms of Christianity.

Who preaches Hell?

Personally, i only preach about eternal life Very Happy

Also, personally i don't adhere to the outdated TORMENT doctrine of HELL which involves eternal torment in hell for those who reject God's generous offer of eternal life.

Rather, i accept the PERISH doctrine of HELL, where atheists will eventually get what they now already expect, a big nothing!,
But only after discovering that they could have had eternal life had they listenned to the people they ridiculed.

There is an abundance of scriptural evidence that supports the PERISH doctrine.

Matthew 10:28; Luke 13:3; John 3:16; John 10:28; Romans 2:12; 1Corinthians 1:18; 2Corinthians 4:3; Galalatians 6:8; 2Thessalonians 2:3,10; 2 Peter 3:9;

cheers

AGS

EDIT

Sorry, i never actually finished this post. Got a call from my darling wife and just posted this post without finishing it, with the intension of completing it after we got back last night

OOPS

OK, back to hell Evil or Very Mad

Yes, i believe in a dimension (not so much a place) which is Hell/Hades and yes, the unGodly do end up staying there, in torment, for a period , that must seem like an eternity, as they await..

JUDGEMENT DAY

During the Great White Throne Judgement (Revelations20) they will have a short reprieve before being reinstalled into hell where they will finally perish

So, i think of Hell being much like the Recycle Bin on your PC.

After Judgement Day (this is figurative of course), God uses his mouse to click on the Recycle Bin icon, then (because He likes using the keyboard), He presses the keys:

ALT - F - B - Y

Then all the atheists and all the other eternal losers will be gone.....

FOREVER!

(thats like permanently man)

The moral of this story is...........................

DONT BE AN ETERNAL LOSER!

ACCEPT GOD'S GENEROUS OFFER

ADMIT YOU ARE NOT PERFECT

ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST'S VICARIOUS SACRIFICE ON YOUR BEHALF

THATS PAYS FOR ALL YOUR FAILINGS AND IMPERFECTIONS

THEN CELEBRATE THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE LIFE TO THE FULLEST

THANKS GOD FOR EVERYTHING

CHEERS

Very Happy

AGS

Last edited by ArmeeGruppeSud on Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:22 am; edited 4 times in total

#81: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: MF_Church,

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:55 pm
—
Perish ~ the thought !

Either 'Way' hell or nothingness means No Bliss for all eternity. <Kinda sounds hellish-like ?

In my 35 yr out of 57 yrs of being 'born again' I must confess that my opinion --- of an actual place for the doomed & damned and then that place being tossed into a literal lake of fire forever did start to wane in strength. God's Goodness and Love & Grace over those 3 and 1/2 decades made me sway my 'belief' away from those horrible thoughts.

But recently, i've changed back.

I can see God allowing a 'place' for completely & totally Evil beings we call demons / fallen angels & Satan / Devil. But humans? Even humans that reject God's RESCUE (Jesus's death on the cross) attempt from our own 'fallenNess'

But stories of near death experiness & alleged Trips to heaven & hell via UnFallen Angels & Jesus have a terrible 'ring' of truth to them. :(

If individuals have had their God 'antennas restored and the gift of eternal Life (the Holy Spirit) placed within their spirits then He (the Spirit of Truth) mission to lead that individual into All truth will Witness to those above stories etc.

I ask--- is the unpardonable sin - denying the Truth revealed by that Spirit? of Truth.

So be careful people. And don't react or decide too quickly or out of hand. Take and give time for the truth to sink.. in.

On another note.

Take the letter 'H' from the beginning of the word heart
And place it at the end.

The word 'heart' has 2 words within it.

Hear

ear

And the peoples on this planet are called ' ear thlings

Jesus is called the 'Word' of God.

And He said, "To those who have 'ears' to hear."

Listen. And be still b4 God. And tell Him what you start to feel. You maybe surprised to find that He is waiting and listening.

:)

#82: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: MF_Church,

Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:43 pm
—
I've enjoyed ArmeeGS input tremendously.

On a much lighter note, i'd like to draw attention to a Utube clip of Star Trek starting at 17sec. into it till about 2mins 40secs. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okFCpE2Li9s&feature=relmfu

well, Enjoy! Everyone.

;) :D

Please Forgive for the opening passionate kiss scene of about 16 secs.

Tks! and again... pause and move forward about 17secs. !

#83: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: MajorFrank,

Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:06 pm
—
AGS,

ok first you go on a rant about "muslimification" or whatever and then you go on a fantastical and completely nutty diatribe about imaginary stuff. I wonder if you have any way of understanding how absurd and farcical that is at the same time.

As I've said before, you're welcome to stop co-operating with the Muslims through your religion whenever you feel like it.

And btw, wasn't Australia orginally populated by the aboriginals? And you guys came over as...oh yea, immigrants. Some even as prisoners, uuh. Some moral high horse you have there.

MF_Church,

do you think it's because a person is advanced in age that they begin to worry about the possibility of hell etc.? That's one way that religions target the weak, they go after the old and the infirm in hopes of gleaning some money out of them.

- MajorFrank, Your Friendly Neighbourhood Non-believer

#84: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: MF_Church,

Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:25 pm
—
Well, I was 22 yrs old when I had an empirical knowledge of God/Jesus/Holy Spirit.

Still hadn't been in a 'church' either.

I had never even met a born again christian.

A friend (that Finnish buddy) had become a believer. He never spoke a single word from the bible to me or for that matter anything on the subject. I did ask what changed his mind cuz he had been anti christian b4 and gave me a pocketbook about a P K.'s personal testimony. (P=preacher K=kid)

Apparently, some P.K. are very angry at God etc. Made for a great read.

I then asked my friend if he had a bible. I had never read one and thought later how strange that was cuz I had read every other so called holy book(s) out there & spiritual subject I ran across. Cept the bible.

I skipped to the last 'book' Revelation in the bible and was floored. Powerful. But more than that... had a ring of truth to every part of it.

Went to a book store to get a copy of P.K. story and ended up with another book and saying a small prayer in the back of the store.

I left that store 6 ft high ! Light and happy. Christ was real to me!

Next morning i woke up and instantly thought, was it 'real'? Did i imagine it all?

And sensed His presence still there within me. And every day since. 35 yrs.

:)

#85: MajorFlamer seeks Heated religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:04 pm
—

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

ok first you go on a rant about "muslimification" or whatever

LOL
{1}If it were happenning in Finland like it is here, you certainly would not be attacking the Christians anymore!
You would be asking why your Government is spending 10 times as much money (or more) on each illegal Muslim immigrant to make them happy, than it spends on each Finnish born citizen.

{2}One sentence does not a "rant" make. Get a dictionary and use English correctly MajorFlamer. (You dont see me missusing the Finnish language) Wink

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

then you go on a fantastical and completely nutty diatribe about imaginary stuff.

{3} Now to correct you once again:
The following 2 quotes actually are genuine examples of fantastical and completely nutty diatribe about imaginary stuff

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

All Abrahamic religions co-operate very closely and even the more distant religions co-operate in some way.

wonder if you have any way of understanding how absurd and farcical that is at the same time.

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

As I've said before, you're welcome to stop co-operating with the Muslims through your religion whenever you feel like it.

PMSL

And you are welcome to stop dancing with the fairies whenever you feel like it

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

And btw, wasn't Australia orginally populated by the aboriginals? And you guys came over as...oh yea, immigrants. Some even as prisoners, uuh.

Yes and i would rather our government spend the MILLIONS of dollars on making the lives of the Aboriginals better
INSTEAD of making sure that the ILLEGAL muslim immigrants have: every modern convenience, Flat screen digital TVs, mobile phones, broadband internet access, free medical and psychological counselling services.

ALL THIS!, while many Aboriginies (Australian citizens) dont even have basic amenities!

What really makes you trying to use the Aboriginies as a comparison, even more absurd and farcical, is that the Aboriginies have never payed taxes to pay for our luxuries.

It appears that your ignorance of relevant facts is only overshadowed by your delusions about religions colluding and conspiring together plotting how they can join forces to get all MajorFlamer's money Shocked

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

Some moral high horse you have there.

OH MajorFlamer Surprised

It is YOU who are sitting in the seat of JUDGMENTALNESS Rolling Eyes

If only you would climb down off your moral high horse, go see an optometrist and then you would realise that the person that you see on that judgemental moral high horse is your own reflection in a mirror Rolling Eyes

cheers

AGS

P.S. From a Psychoanalytical view, you appear to have a problem with "Projecting" Very Happy

#86: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: MajorFrank,

Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:53 pm
—
AGS,

by rant I meant everything you wrote after the "edit" - part. Bunch of fantastical baloney.

As for the Muslim immigration issue, tough. I guess you don't have a problem with immigration in general, or even imperialist politics that contain the genocidal destruction of native populations.

As for the religions cooperating - issue, it's true especially for the big religions. Smaller sects like Jehowa's Witnesses etc. try to get a 'market share' from the bigger religions. They all work against their common enemy which is global secularisation.

About modern psychoanalytics, I doubt you actually meant what you said. Because if you truly subscribe to the teachings of your quite extreme religion, then it would be completely impossible for you to agree with modern psychology. So, that's that.

Ta ta.

- MF

#87: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:09 pm
—

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

by rant I meant everything you wrote after the "edit" - part. Bunch of fantastical baloney.

Well you brought up the topic of HELL, so, being a congenial and transparent person, i let you know what my personal view of HELL was.

After that, i fullfilled my Christian duty/responsability in Proclaiming the Good news of salvation to you and to all other readers.

Now if you don't accept God's offer, your eternal loss is entirely on your own head..., not mine.
God won't say to me;
"They/he could have been saved if you had told them".

for "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in?
And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard?
And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?
(Romans 10:13-14)

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

As for the Muslim immigration issue, tough. I guess you don't have a problem with immigration in general, or even imperialist politics that contain the genocidal destruction of native populations.

Well the Imperialism we had here was a little before my time. Yes, our forebares were a little mean to the original inhabitants of Australia (not my fault).
The aboriginals, have more rights and benefits than the rest of the Australian population
(except, of course, the illegal immigrants)

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

About modern psychoanalytics, I doubt you actually meant what you said. Because if you truly subscribe to the teachings of your quite extreme religion, then it would be completely impossible for you to agree with modern psychology.

Actually, when i was at Bible college studying a degree in "Christian Counselling" we studied all the various disciplines of Counselling Psychology, among them: Rogerian, Freud, Jung, Family Sytems therapy, and my personal favourite: Albert Ellis'es Rational Emotive Therapy (RET) along with a swathe of other Cognitive Behavioural therapies .
Of course we also studied the work of notable Christian Counsellors such as Dr. Lawrence Crabb, David Seamunds, Jay E. Adams, Gary R.Colins, and of course Selwyn Hughes.

Modern Christian Counselling is very eklectic.

Of course we cannot agree with EVERYTHING that modern psychology says about every topic.

Modern psychology, like most sciences, had its begginings within Christian institutions Very Happy

Both modern secular psychology and modern christian psychology learn from one another and both benefit from one another's research.

Yes, Projecting, IS, a recognised dysfunctional behaviour within Christian Psychology Very Happy

SO THERE!

CHEERS

AGS

#88: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: MF_Church,

Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:27 pm
—
Finally some Good News! for America.

A born again Jew & a born again Arab!

Watch and ENJOY! :D

http://www.sidroth.org/site/News2?abbr=tv_&page=NewsArticle&id=11647

#89: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: MF_Church,

Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:40 pm
—
I heard something nice the other day about... Jesus.

Back in the old testament 'days' a person would bring a lamb to the priest.

The priest wouldn't look at the person. He knew why they were there... Did something wrong - sinned.

Instead he would examine the lamb for imperfections, blemishes or spots etc.

When we come to God today it's the same. He knows why you are there... Goofed or some mistake and all round just plain fall short of God's (best) Glory.

But God doesn't look at you. He looks at Jesus our RIGHTEOUSNESS. The perfect 'Lamb of GOD' that takes away the sin(S) of the whole world said, John the Baptiser.

To as many as RECEIVE Him to those gave He the power (Holy Spirit) to become children of God - new creatures, new creation by His transforming Spirit in ours said the other John (apostle).

Remember, if and when we come before God one day ~ either Jesus is our sin offering or we are.

Our God is a consuming fire wrote apostle Paul.

And when sin comes before God the Father He must destroy that completely. :(

So know that your sins are all forgiven at the cross. Except one.

Not believing - that they were.

Receive the gracious Gift of eternal Life of His Spirit.

He / She who has the Son, has life.
He / She who doesn't ~ have the Son
doesn't. quote- Jesus C.

Enjoy!

#90: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: MajorFrank,

Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:43 pm
—
"Lalli is an apocryphal character from Finnish history. According to legend, he killed Bishop Henry on the ice of lake Köyliönjärvi in Finland on January 20, 1156."

The Swedish bishop was trying to bring christianity to Finland. Not particularily wise, he was beheaded.

Here's a painting of the incident.

"In the television series Suuret suomalaiset – the Finnish version of 100 Greatest Britons – Lalli was chosen as the 14th greatest Finn."

Still very popular.

#91: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: Blackstump, Location: Hunter Valley Australia

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:43 am
—

pvt_Grunt wrote (View Post):

I try to think twice, or three times before going into these topics, luckilly though, I'm ALWAYS right, so that helps Wink

I thought i was wrong once... but i was only "mistaken"...

#92: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: Fiestita, Location: Santa Fe

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:07 am
—
I live in a Christian catholic country and my family is fierce catholic believer, and they forced me to receive communion at age of 10. I also live in a country that despite the fact that Catholicism is it's main religion, allows it's people to believe whatever they want unless they decide to take part in any political charge. Then it is common here to have muslims and jews living next door without throwing grenades each other like television shows us that happen in Israel and Palestine.

As I grew up, decided to not believe in anything. You may ask why?

Well, let's see. First of all there are more chinese in the world than any other people, and China has also its own variety of religions. Then you have black africans, that also have a lot of religions and believes, also very different from each other. Finally there are quite a lot of muslims and arabs, probably more than christians. So who's right?

Christians burned Galileo Galilei and Jean D'arc. Muslims cut off women' clitoris. Arabs cut thieves' hands and drown cheating housewives and chinese or hindu surely have their own atrocities to humand kind.

None of these believes are based in some sort of divine word in my opinion. They've been all thought and planned to take advantage of mass handling like Marx wrote once.

If any of these religions were right, well, there would be A LOT of wrong people, and that may be impossible, or is there anyone who denies the spherical form of earth?

Think about all these things, it then make sense not to believe in anything.

Then I do believe in good and evil and that there HAS TO BE some kind of code of laws or regulations between humans, because that's what keep us from chaos. Put two people in a small room with an only knife and await what happens: sooner or later one of them will cut the other's throat.

#93: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: Blackstump, Location: Hunter Valley Australia

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:50 am
—
Well said Fiestita..
There are at least two of us with the same philosophy in this world.
Strange how we seem to still have the same morals of live and let live, without a "guiding light" showing us a "path".
I like to think that i'm as decent as any righteous religious individual, without any Muppet telling me what i need to do to find salvation.

#94: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: Panzermayer,

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 10:14 am
—
Probaly most people, , at least in the civilized part of the world, that call themself religious understand that they are part of a massive entity that defaces themselves and people with other views, beliefs or thoughts. BUT religious people always makes it right in there own head. They make there own reality in which religous believes makes them whole as a person and makes them function as part of society. Even if the religion clearly has a negative impact on society. They will not, and cannot, be shaken from there own narrow minded views. And if you want to leave your religion, you get a death warrent like in the religion of peace islam.

#95: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: dj,

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:17 pm
—
America's Freemasons, yes Freemasons, founding fathers had it right. That's one of the main reasons why so many fled to the New World. Virtually all the founding fathers were non-religious Freemasons...including the "Father" himself George Washington. Yet various factions in America constantly try to reinvent history and make believe their own facts. We are indoctrinated into thinking the "Christian" Puritans and other sects were the founding fathers, when in reality they were just one of numerous settlers.

Meanwhile we have the Mormon Mitt Romney managing to stick the proverbial foot in mouth traveling to London. Mitt has a special way with people, managing to disrespect the London officials. Prompting a cynical response from the Mayor. Allegedly the Mormons believe the "holy land" is not Jerusalem but in Utah, they believe "heaven" is a specific distant planet inhabited by Joe Smith himself, among other controversial beliefs. Not trying to be a hater...just trying to make sense of what many claim is a Cult. Are Freemasons a Cult or is Mormonism? I am not to judge but the difference is that Freemason believed in the principle of separation of Church / State whereas Joe Smith advocated the opposite with ideal of "theodemocratic" Kingdom of God.

#96: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: Fiestita, Location: Santa Fe

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 8:31 pm
—
What I never understood if why if muslims, christians and jews hate each other so much to kill each other in other parts of the world, that doesn't happen in Argentina. Also here there is no discrimination at all between blacks and whites. Maybe it's due to the essence of the country conceived as a full immigration packages, that did not put any restrictions in who and from where came to live. We have other problems like poverty but no religion wars or apartheids.

#97: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: southern_land,

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:20 am
—

Fiestita wrote (View Post):

What I never understood if why if muslims, christians and jews hate each other so much to kill each other in other parts of the world.

thats easy, its because religion is the ultimate team blood sport, they all wear funny team costumes, the rules change frequently, its televised and they all think their team is best and one day it will win the championship.

#98: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:50 am
—

Blackstump wrote (View Post):

I like to think that i'm as decent as any righteous religious individual, without any Muppet telling me what i need to do to find salvation.

3 points

1st you said: "I like to think that i'm .. decent"

If judgement is left to the individual, then we could all be judged as perfect.

Even mass murderers, such as the Norwegian crazyman, Anders Behring Breivik, just like many other maniacs, judge themselves as "descent" citizens.

So self judgement will just never do....., sorry Sad

As a Christian, whom you incorrectly label as: "self-righteous", i judge myself as less than perfect (=sinful) and strive for continual self improvement with God's help.

My only righteousness, is not my own, but rather, it is Jesus Christ's righteoussness, which is credited to me, as a gift, of God's grace (thanks Jesus).

2ndly what muppet?

The muppets are actually a secular movement, they preach evolution and believe they evovled from socks, without the influence, design, or imagination of any other creative being (making them just as ignorant, naive and gullable as the humanist secular evolutionists).

3rdly
No matter how good you judge yourself to be, IF, a muppet could point you in the right direction, to gain eternal salvation, you would be prudent and wise to listen to it Smile

CHEERS

AGS

.

Last edited by ArmeeGruppeSud on Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:29 am; edited 2 times in total

#99: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:01 am
—
Realy Panzermayer, it would be very hard for you to be more wrong Confused

Panzermayer wrote (View Post):

THE TRUTH: Secular atheism is a massive entity that defaces themselves and other people with their views, beliefs or thoughts.

Panzermayer wrote (View Post):

BUT religious people always makes it right in there own head. They make there own reality in which religous believes makes them whole as a person and makes them function as part of society.

THE TRUTH: Secular atheists always makes it right in their own head. They make their own reality in which secular beliefs makes them whole as a person and make them function as part of society

Panzermayer wrote (View Post):

Even if the religion clearly has a negative impact on society.

Now this is clearly the wrongest thing you have written.
The evidence against that statement could fill an encyclopedia.

Modern western culture owes virtually everything it has achieved in the last millenium to its Christian foundations.

examples:

The universtity system has its foundation in Christian monastries which saved all the books during the Dark ages.

The Christian monastries were the original centres of learning the very foundation of of modern education.

Even modern western science owes its very existance to Christianity

Western societies were built on the solid foundation of Christian morality.

The politically incorrect atheistic secular movement is responsible for the present moral decline and destruction of the modern family system.

Christianity made a strong healthy society, secular atheism is destroying the very fabric of this society.

THE TRUTH: Secular atheism clearly has a negative impact on society.

There would be no problem with your statement if you had specified the islamic religion.

Just heard how a 13yo girl was strangled by her parents because she was "too westernised"
Grrr @ stupid muslims, if they dont like our western culture, why then did the parents make the family illegally migrate to a western country? DUH!

Now, even here in Australia, we had a muslim man throw acid in a woman's face because she would not marry him (a common practice in islamic nations).

We dont want/need islamic influene on our western (Christian) society.

If you wanna live here, either become like us, or GO BACK WHERE YOU CAME FROM!

Either they convert to christianity or just joyfully embrace and adopt our culture, or they should just stay in their Muslim countries instead of coming here and using stupid secular political correctness to make our wonderfull Christian foundationed society into a hellhole like the muslim culture they risked their lives to escape.

When they set out from Indonesia, the illegal immigrant boats send distress signals to the Australian Navy before they are out of sight of land. The Indonesian (Muslim) Navy does not care if they drown, so the Australian Navy must leave Australian waters, cross international waters and enter Indonesian waters, to rescue the illegals.

Really, regarding these illegal immigrant boat people (incorrectly labelled "Asylum seeking refugees")we should just sink their boats, and let the swim back to shore. they would soon stop coming.

Just 2 naval sinkings would be enough to send a clear and effective message.
Of course we would make sure they all have life jackets for the swim.

THis would save their lives too.
10-20% of them already drown as most of their boats are unseaworthy and many boats sink, often with no survivors (because people smugglers do not include life jackets in the $5,000 fee).

Then, finally, the genuine Asylum seekers could start getting processed.

At present, our immigration staff have no time to process the genuine Asylum seekers because they are too busy, being swamped with work processing all the FAKE Asylum seekers who are really just illegal economic immigrants.

Any 3rd world person who can afford to pay the people smugglers the $5,000USD/person, is no poor, penniless regugee, they are just wealthy people buying their way into our welfare system where they get treated better than our legitimate citizens (GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR) Mad

You cant call me a racist, my wife ,who i adore, is 100% asian Razz

Panzermayer wrote (View Post):

They will not, and cannot, be shaken from there own narrow minded views.

If only you were talking about the secular athesists, then you would have got one statement right.

0/4

Your scored poorly as everything you wrote was totally opposite to the facts/truth

No offense is meant Very Happy

You are human, therefore prone to make mistakes, hey, i was an atheists once too Smile

Cheers

AGS

.

Last edited by ArmeeGruppeSud on Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:34 am; edited 1 time in total

#100: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: MF_Church,

Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 7:02 pm
—
Smile

@ above post.

1] God hates religion. Or what man has done with 'it'.

2] If we all struggle with evil tendencies inside of us... Does that make us ~ evil??? * Reading all of the recent posts above (almost all) certainly has my vote to the 'fallen' ~ human race and biblical views as such.

3] Bible view also states, the 'god' (little 'g') of this world / earth is a fallen angel. (satan) < and he is pure evil and he loves our false religions.
Again, reading the above posts gives ample evidence that that biblical view is also correct. Fallen angels & fallen man. We don't need satan to make us do anything. If he did only he would get the blame. No, he just puts a small question mark in our minds. We willingly do the rest.

4] Why do you think Jesus was killed? His message! "You being evil, know how to give Good gifts to your children." And men sent by God as prophets to Israel were almost all destroyed. Hence, they too were removed from that land twice for the land soak up the blood of believers.

5] Jesus came for one reason. To rescue those who want to be. Most don't.
Why? They have a pet... sin that they love. And instead hide in the 'dark' spiritually, instead of coming to God's light that would expose it for what it really is. Our hearts are our greatest enemy. Deceitful, and wicked. :(

6] By the way. If you think that you aren't that bad. Remember. It only takes one tiny sin to keep us out of heaven. So comparing yourself to others who are not really any worse or better than you is foolish.

Peter the apostle said, " If the 'righteous' (jesus's followers received His righteousness) are barely saved (rescued) what shall the un godly do?"
Hey ArmeeGruppeSud

I love this saying.... i recently heard.

Pray til you ~~~~~~~~~~ pray! Smile

#101: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: MajorFrank,

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:57 am
—

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Blackstump wrote (View Post):

I like to think that i'm as decent as any righteous religious individual, without any Muppet telling me what i need to do to find salvation.

CHEERS

AGS

.

I guess if you live in Australia then you can live your entire life in that backwoods area that you live in and not engage people in any type of serious discussion and come face to face with how things are. That's how Muslims live their lives, they live where they are and rarely meet for example western people who could tell them how things are and educate them so they stay religious. You are just like them. Congratz eh?

#102: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: MajorFrank,

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:18 am
—

Panzermayer wrote (View Post):

Probaly most people, , at least in the civilized part of the world, that call themself religious understand that they are part of a massive entity that defaces themselves and people with other views, beliefs or thoughts. BUT religious people always makes it right in there own head. They make there own reality in which religous believes makes them whole as a person and makes them function as part of society. Even if the religion clearly has a negative impact on society. They will not, and cannot, be shaken from there own narrow minded views. And if you want to leave your religion, you get a death warrent like in the religion of peace islam.

You see the stuff that AGS writes? The guy seems like some cultist.

Yea I don't know, maybe there should be some atheist organisation to look after the interests of non-religious people around the world. To me it seems that there are just too many people like AGS around.

#103: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: chessmaster, Location: Antwerp and Ghent

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:17 am
—
hey guys,

I'm a muslim. Altough most of you are old and wise enough to find out, but there are some things I need to make very clear

- Islam means peace. Don't judge muslims because 0.1 procent of the idiots out there is a fundamental, and joins a terrorist group or help fighting a Jihad in Syria. You have fundementals in every religion. It's just because of what some idiots did in 2001 that suddenly everything muslims do gets in the news or is important.

- The palestinian- israel subject has nothing to do with islam or jews, it has to with land. They are doing the same thing as Hitler did. Placing Palestinian People in fences and ghetto's, the Palestinian diaspora fled all around the world because of a problem Europe made after WW2.

- There are different groups and streams of muslims. Every group of muslims has there own rules. There also cultural believes that has nothing to do with being a muslim, for example one of you guys said that we cut off a girls clitoris.. that is cultural thing. And that is very uncommen.

- Like 90 procent of all muslims in the world are moderate, with means they dont believe in hitting themselves with chains or fighting jihad or something or being busy with religion all the time. We respect all religions and teach are children that every man and woman are equal.

- I have gay, jewish,.. friends and i have no problem with them, I have a mind of my own and i was teached to respect everyone. There are a lot of young muslims who get tricked in doing bad things or hate people. Because some idiot is letting them believe that becoming a terrorist and killing yourself is in the quran but it s not. And there are also a lot of people who misinterpreted the quran.

for example most of those terrorist that blow thereselfs up come from countries in europe, they dont understand arabic and get tricked in a situation

another example the terrorists in Iraq or Palestina they do understand arabic and can read the Quran, but they do desperate things in a desperate situation

Watch and read different media, also arabic like al jazeera in english. You ll soon learn that everyone has a different view on every situation.
Be objective and don't judge what the media or articels in the newspaper are selling you. It's always those that never experienced violence that glorify it. Muslims are not aggressive or terrifiing or dangerous and sure we need to punish those who indulge themselfs in fundamentalistic ideas. Go and speak with differrent muslims, you ll find out they are human like all the rest of us.

We all want are kids to grow up in harmony and have a good and peacefull life.

I ll end this with Alykom Salaam, what means Peace be upon you, cause i m getting a bit tired (I'm in the ramadan: no drinking eating all day)
If you guys have any questions, feel free to ask.

peace guys

#104: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:41 am
—

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

Oh hi MajorPrank

Its good to see you pop in and add nothing of value to the conversation as usual Smile

Just more of your loosely veiled and crude attempts to be insulting Rolling Eyes

Keep it up, you may amuse a few atheist with low levels of intellect Wink

CHEERS

AGS

.

Last edited by ArmeeGruppeSud on Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:44 am; edited 1 time in total

#105: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:43 am
—

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

You see the stuff that AGS writes? The guy seems like some cultist.

Typical of you to throw some negative labels around, clearly you dont even comprehend the definition of ther word "cultists" Laughing

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

Yea I don't know, maybe there should be some atheist organisation to look after the interests of non-religious people around the world.

OH my my, MF, are your eyes and ears painted on?

Or do you live in a cave with very limited internet access (maybe under North Korean censorship levels)?

There are thousands of such SECULAR (atheist) organisations.

From the top down:

The U.N. is a secular organisation, so is the E.U.

Then 99% of countries haver secular governments.

Very very few governments are controlled by a religion, Iran is one.....

Most schools, certainly all government run schools are under secular (atheist) control (with the only exceptions being private religious schools).

For proof, just check education curiculums, if the atheist religion of evolution is taught, that is proof enough

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

To me it seems that there are just too many people like AGS around.

Reality and what seems so to you, are LightYears apart my friend Wink

CHEERS

AGS

.

#106: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:56 am
—

chessmaster wrote (View Post):

hey guys,

I'm a muslim. Altough most of you are old and wise enough to find out, but there are some things I need to make very clear

- Islam means peace. Don't judge muslims because 0.1 procent of the idiots out there is a fundamental, and joins a terrorist group or help fighting a Jihad in Syria. You have fundementals in every religion. It's just because of what some idiots did in 2001 that suddenly everything muslims do gets in the news or is important.

- The palestinian- israel subject has nothing to do with islam or jews, it has to with land. They are doing the same thing as Hitler did. Placing Palestinian People in fences and ghetto's, the Palestinian diaspora fled all around the world because of a problem Europe made after WW2.

- There are different groups and streams of muslims. Every group of muslims has there own rules. There also cultural believes that has nothing to do with being a muslim, for example one of you guys said that we cut off a girls clitoris.. that is cultural thing. And that is very uncommen.

- Like 90 procent of all muslims in the world are moderate, with means they dont believe in hitting themselves with chains or fighting jihad or something or being busy with religion all the time. We respect all religions and teach are children that every man and woman are equal.

- I have gay, jewish,.. friends and i have no problem with them, I have a mind of my own and i was teached to respect everyone. There are a lot of young muslims who get tricked in doing bad things or hate people. Because some idiot is letting them believe that becoming a terrorist and killing yourself is in the quran but it s not. And there are also a lot of people who misinterpreted the quran.

for example most of those terrorist that blow thereselfs up come from countries in europe, they dont understand arabic and get tricked in a situation

another example the terrorists in Iraq or Palestina they do understand arabic and can read the Quran, but they do desperate things in a desperate situation

Watch and read different media, also arabic like al jazeera in english. You ll soon learn that everyone has a different view on every situation.
Be objective and don't judge what the media or articels in the newspaper are selling you. It's always those that never experienced violence that glorify it. Muslims are not aggressive or terrifiing or dangerous and sure we need to punish those who indulge themselfs in fundamentalistic ideas. Go and speak with differrent muslims, you ll find out they are human like all the rest of us.

We all want are kids to grow up in harmony and have a good and peacefull life.

I ll end this with Alykom Salaam, what means Peace be upon you, cause i m getting a bit tired (I'm in the ramadan: no drinking eating all day)
If you guys have any questions, feel free to ask.

peace guys

Hey chessmaster

Sorry if some of my comments offended you.

You are right, most Muslims are not violent terrorists

There are some muslims coming to Australia, that are genuine assylum seekers, and dont bother me.

For example the Hazara muslims from Afghanistan.

The Hazara people integrate with Australians quite well and behave decently.

The Hazara are welcome here Very Happy

If only all our Muslim immigrants were like them, we would have little to complain about.

CHEERS

AGS

.

Last edited by ArmeeGruppeSud on Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:00 am; edited 1 time in total

#107: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:01 am
—

pvt_Grunt wrote (View Post):

I try to think twice, or three times before going into these topics, luckilly though, I'm ALWAYS right, so that helps Wink

Blackstump wrote (View Post):

I thought i was wrong once... but i was only "mistaken"...

Well i am NEVER WRONG
(just occaissionally innaccurate)

CHEERS

AGS

.

#108: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:30 pm
—

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

So you think Australia is a backward area?

Well, Australians only need to look backwards to see how far Finland is behind us Razz

Australia is one of the most advanced nations in the world.

Australia exports scientists and many other acedemics all around the world, to Europe and America.

We have more talent per capita than any other nation on earth.

We are the greatest sporting nation in the world per capita, finishing 4th in the Olympic medal counts in 2000 and 2004. Not bad for a country with only the 52nd largest population Cool

We are having a pretty crap Olympics this time, but we cant win it all every time.
In the last 20 years, our worst Olympic placing was 10th back in 1992, i dont think we will get that high this time Sad

Hey, we have one of the smallest snowfields in the world and we beat Finland in the 2010 Olympics Razz

Seems like Finland is the backwoods when it comes to winter sports Laughing

We have one of the best standards of living in the world.

Nearly all of our state capitals are in the top 20 best cities in the world to live in. Cool

Australia is in the top 10, or 5 in nearly every desireable category of national comparison Cool

People are risking their lives everyday on leaky boats just to get here.

Well MF, i guess you made the dumbest comment in this thread to date (just narrowly beating yourself)

Congratz eh?

.

Last edited by ArmeeGruppeSud on Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:31 am; edited 1 time in total

#109: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: dj,

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:20 pm
—
Good post...I agree with the bulk of your opinions. Yes I have known many Muslims here in America and learned a lot from getting to know them. The overwhelming majority are outstanding citizens and believe in peace. We have many religious fundamentalist extremists here in America too that claim to be "Christian" yet most would consider them to be not worthy. We also have our own problems with homegrown terror. You're right there are nuts in virtually every religion. Or sometimes the Nuts form their own unique religion with other nuts aka Cult groups.

My take is that these fundamentalist extremists that think it is normal to kill or threaten innocent people are not part of religion at all. They are certifiably INSANE. Sometimes like when we have crazy people shoot in movie theaters or other incidents it has nothing to do with religion at all. It is because there are a lot of mentally insane nuts out there that need to be put on medication or sent to medical institution for treatment/counseling. In the case of the Fundamentalists in Mid-East...it is not such social decline like in the West...but more of a case of ignorance, indoctination and especially a lack of education.

As far as the Palestinian issue...yes most people do not understand the history. I learned much later in my life that these people have a legitimate reason to feel like they got raw deal. So until Israel figures out how to compensate or correct the situation it will never really make it fair that they got their land at the expense of the Palestinians. Some in Israel are well aware that is the only the fair thing to do. But then they have their own fundamentalist fanatics too that always try to either kill the more Liberal Israeli leaders or obstruct any attempt to make real Peace treaty.

chessmaster wrote (View Post):

#110: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: Fiestita, Location: Santa Fe

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:01 pm
—

chessmaster wrote (View Post):

I have a Muslim friend in Bosnia. Where are you from chesmaster? I know lots of muslims in Argentina thar are pretty nice people. In fact, trouble in Palestina was caused by the fact of jewish injection in a place where they had to move A LONG TIME AGO due to religious wars. Knowing the fact of the crusades, injecting christians instead of jews, would have had the same effect nowadays and we would be watching muslims bombmen killing christians and christians burning muslims like Jean D'arc. I think these facts are not just a matter of religion, it is just an ancient war of who controls that ancient land.

#111: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: Panzermayer,

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:43 pm
—

Quote:

THE TRUTH: Secular atheism is a massive entity that defaces themselves and other people with their views, beliefs or thoughts.

Thats why the number of jews, chrisitians and muslims is growing everyday because the bad atheist are trying to convert them. Something believers of the 'real' faiths would never do. And why are there so many 'real' faiths and religions? Mabey God, Allah, Vishnu, Waheguru, Jehovah (here my imagination stops) just likes to play games. Am I just silly...

Quote:

Modern western culture owes virtually everything it has achieved in the last millenium to its Christian foundations.

Before christianity there was just a wasteland in history that was called the Roman Empire, the pharaohs and Egypt, Persia, Anccient China and so forth. I rather thank the forward thinking societies and people of the city states in accient Greece for the birth of Western Civilization. Read a wikipage please http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greece.

Yes, I agree with you that in the last millenium the Christian foundations helped devolop Modern western culture Because everything not christian was pagan and was chastised by the church. Therefore knowledge was centered in the church. The irony is that whatever Christian foundations did for Modern western culture made christianity, and all religions, seem unnecessary (I am not saying wrong or stupid).

Quote:

THE TRUTH: Secular atheism clearly has a negative impact on society.

Lets ask Galileo how positive and accepting modern christianity is of other thoughts. Or how in the quran that muslims are the Ubermenschen and that the rest is just untermenschen/infidels. Fundamentils and extremists spread this around the world. Not realising that everything they use to spread there messege, every invention and every innnovation, comes from infidels.

Quote:

Your scored poorly as everything you wrote was totally opposite to the facts/truth

No offense is meant Very Happy

You are human, therefore prone to make mistakes, hey, i was an atheists once too Smile

Great, you can accept me as a human being. Can you accept logic and reason? No offense is meant Very Happy

#112: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: MajorFrank,

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:30 am
—
Hi AGS,

in my opinion there aren't that many proper global organisations that look after the interests of non-religious people. UN is mainly a peace-keeping and aid organisation, not really an atheist organisation.

Btw, just recently they put one of those Mars rovers onto Mars. Did God or some other magical creature do that? No, it was done by scientists with the aid of science. I'd like more of that instead of building more and bigger churches. That's why we need non-religious organisations, to put knowledge, progress and development first instead of rituals, beliefs and fairytales.

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Hey, we have one of the smallest snowfields in the world and we beat Finland in the 2010 Olympics Razz

Seems like Finland is the backwoods when it comes to winter sports Laughing

5 medals from Vancouver isn't bad for a nation of ~ 5 million.

Also, may I direct you to this site where the all time olympic medal - statistics are kept. Just check out what nation is no. 1. Feel free to check out other possible variations from the menu on the left.

http://www.medalspercapita.com/#medals-per-capita:all-time

Not bad for a small country. And it sure wasn't any magical creature that won us those medals.

Oh yes, that was just for the summer olympics. The all time medal stats for winter games puts Finland near the very top, behind Liechtenstein and Norway.

http://www.2-speed.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/PerCapitaWinterOlympicMedalsSourceNationmaster.com_thumb.png

http://www.spudart.org/blogs/randomthoughts_comments/A3285_0_3_0_C/

Laters,

MF

#113: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:53 pm
—

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

in my opinion there aren't that many proper global organisations that look after the interests of non-religious people. UN is mainly a peace-keeping and aid organisation, not really an atheist organisation.

The UN is definately a non-religious organisation. Athesim means non-religious.

So are you claiming that the UN do not look after atheists?

Realy, atheists have most of the power and influence on this planet atm (only because God is allowing it for the time being Wink

)

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

5 medals from Vancouver isn't bad for a nation of ~ 5 million.
........
http://www.medalspercapita.com/#medals-per-capita:all-time.

Ok, i'll have to award you 1 point there Very Happy

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

And it sure wasn't any magical creature that won us those medals.

True, but all the amazing abilities of mankind (regardless of nationality) are God-given and i praise God for all the cool stuff He has made man capable of Cool

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

Btw, just recently they put one of those Mars rovers onto Mars. Did God or some other magical creature do that? No, it was done by scientists with the aid of science.

No, but God made it possible Very Happy

Science can do nothing that God has not made possible

How could you land on Mars if God did not put Mars there in the 1st place? Very Happy

Scientists could not even pick their noses if God did not give them fingers Laughing

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

instead of building more and bigger churches.

Well, i believe we don't need bigger churches. Personally i don't like BIG churches. Smaller church communites are better for spiritual growth and develeopement

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

That's why we need non-religious organisations, to put knowledge, progress and development first instead of rituals, beliefs and fairytales.

We need religious organisations, to put knowledge and truth first instead of false beliefs and fairytales like the lie of a Godless evolution

CHEERS

AGS

.

Last edited by ArmeeGruppeSud on Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:50 pm; edited 1 time in total

#114: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:48 pm
—

Panzermayer wrote (View Post):

Am I just silly...

Hmmm, i'll let God be the judge of that Smile

Panzermayer wrote (View Post):

Read a wikipage please http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greece.

Studied ancient history back in High school, so i can learn nothing new there Smile

My statement still stands true Cool

Quote:

THE TRUTH: Secular atheism clearly has a negative impact on society.

Panzermayer wrote (View Post):

Lets ask Galileo how positive and accepting modern christianity is of other thoughts

Lets ask the children of broken homes how athesim has strengthenned the modern family. Could make many more comments, but its way past my bed time (yawn)

Panzermayer wrote (View Post):

Not realising that everything they use to spread there messege, every invention and every innnovation, comes from infidels.

OOPS

you wrote that without thinking it through 1st.

Panzermayer wrote (View Post):

Can you accept logic and reason? No offense is meant Very Happy

None taken. Yes of course i can accept logic and reason.

Logic and reason are gifts from God and i accept God's gifts.

Logic and reason will eventually lead you to believe the truth.

The purest form of science is mathmatics.

Mathmatics is the measure of validity of all other sciences

Mathmatical analysis of the facts disproves the Godless theory of evolution and leads to logical conclusion that the only reasonable explantion for the existence of the universe and the miraculous appearance of life upon a rock in space, is an infinite creator God.
Not just life, but life in prolific abundance against virtually infinite odds.
When you do the math, life on earth, especially in its incredible abundance and diversity, could only be possible when it is the work of an infinite God.

Infinity is a mathematical certainty!

It is logically and mathematically impossible for infinity not to exist.

God's nature is many fold. One aspect of God is that God IS infinity.

Infinity is without beggining, nor end, therefore is immeasureable.

Science can only fathom what is measureable, therefore science can never fathom God.

More on the logical, mathematical proof later (it is a work in progress).

Some of it will be posted in this thread later.

The amount of this evidence is astronomical in size, so i can only provide some limited examples due to time constraints.

Be warned, it will be probaly 1000s of words, so don't bother reading it unless you have an open mind and are willing to really use yr intelect to rationally think it over.

CHEERS

AGS

.

#115: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: MajorFrank,

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:19 pm
—
AGS,

yes the UN doesn't look after the interests of the non-religious in any significant way. And universities etc. don't have the kind of power that it would take to, for example, change laws etc. The Christian church has been behind the legislation of the western countries and has protected it's place as an 'untouchable' entity. The Vatican has it's own bank and tremendous amount of wealth that it has protected, this despite what they teach in their doctrines.

"God made Mars"? Oh really, then maybe you should tell the scientists this, right now the theory of the creation of the planets in the Solar System and elsewhere is very different from that.

Nobody "gave" people fingers, they came about as a result of evolution.

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Lets ask the children of broken homes how athesim has strengthenned the modern family. Could make many more comments, but its way past my bed time (yawn)

And let's ask all the children molested by priests and other religious people.

- MF

#116: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:10 pm
—
MF,

WOOHOOO!

The australian Gold medal count has started building at last

Gooooooooo Sally Pearson!!

One of the shortest girls in the race, but what a perfect and fluid action she has!

Also another Aussie Shiela takes Cycling Gold, go Anna!

Australia has climbed from 25th to 11th in 2 days!

We could still make the top 10 Very Happy

........gets out binnoculars, looks deep back into the woods.....

Yes, there is Finland in 55th Razz

But regardless how many Olympic medals Finland wins, Australia is neither a backwood area, nor is it backward nation in any way, shape, or form :P

Australia is a leader, or forerunner in many many areas.
Even here in the backwater state of South Australia, we were the pioneers in heart surgery and surgeons came from around the world to learn from us Razz

Even my very own father was one of the 1st to use a certain medical technique and he wrote an article on it which was widely published in medical magazines Cool

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

yes the UN doesn't look after the interests of the non-religious in any significant way.

And since the UN doesn't look after religious people either, then they don't look after anybody Question

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

And universities etc. don't have the kind of power that it would take to, for example, change laws etc.

Oh they don't ?

So the secular educational institutions dont have any influence on the people they teach and give degrees to who become High Court Judges who make decisions on matters of law and they don't have any influence on the people they teach and give degrees to, who become members of government who make the laws.

And because the atheists have absolutely no influence at all, all public schools and universities must actually be teaching divine creation and not the evolution fairytale.

Oh i can see now how terribly mistaken i was Rolling Eyes

(thats sarcasm Sheldon Wink

)

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

. The Vatican has it's own bank and tremendous amount of wealth that it has protected, this despite what they teach in their doctrines.

Don't talk to me about the Catholic Church, i am a Protestant.
We Protestants Protest against the Catholic Church too Wink

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

"God made Mars"?

Yes, Mars was one of God's lesser feats.
The entire universe is God's creation, so one small planet is no big deal.

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

"God made Mars"? Oh really, then maybe you should tell the scientists this,

They have been told.

There are many scriptures that pertain to this anomally.

Of the scientist who have been told and don't believe

In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: "'You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.(Mat 13:14)

"always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth." (2 Tim 3:7)

"'Go to this people and say, "You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving."(Isa 6:9; Acts 28:26)

so that, "'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might repent and be saved!'" (Mark 4:12)

And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. The god of this age (Satan) has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.(2 Cor 4:3,4).

So it is of no surprise that many people are blind to the truth even when the Glory of God is staring them in the face

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

""God made Mars"? Oh really, then maybe you should tell the scientists this, right now the theory of the creation of the planets in the Solar System and elsewhere is very different from that.

Yeah, but lets keep this conversation to truth and facts and keep those fairytale theories in the science maganzines Wink

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

"Nobody "gave" people fingers, they came about as a result of evolution.

Oh really, i don't think so. In fact i know your fingers grew as a direct result of programming.
You see when God created this majestic universe, He wrote the "Source Code" (what scientists call DNA code).
Now your fingers grow according to the programed design written in your DNA code.

All codes have an author.
Alll programs have a programmer.
God is both of those.

Your finger is not an random mutation

Your finger is not an accident.

Your finger is a wonderful piece of design that man cannot replicate.

Part of scientific protocol in ascertaining a theory as a fact is being able to replicate theoretical events.

Scientists cannot, even with their superduperest cleverness, replicate the simplest of God's organic creations.

C'mon guys!

If it (theoretically) could happen by accident, it should be TOTALLY EASY to replicate on purpose!

Atheist scientist say: "Life just happenned by accident"

But these BLIND FOOLS cant make life just happen on purpose (ONLY by creating life from life in the God given way).

REALITY 101

FACT 1: LIFE BEGETS LIFE (ONLY LIFE BEGETS LIFE)

FACT 2: NO LIFE + NO LIFE = NO LIFE

FACT 3: LIFELESS PLANET + NO LIFE SOURCE = PLANET WITH NO LIFE

FACT 4: LIFELESS PLANET + LIFE FROM ETERNAL, INFINITE LIFE SOURCE (GOD) = EARTH (ABUNDANT LIFE)

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Lets ask the children of broken homes how athesim has strengthenned the modern family. Could make many more comments, but its way past my bed time (yawn)

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

"And let's ask all the children molested by priests and other religious people.

And ignore the 99% of molested children who were not molested by priests and other religious people, that sounds like MF's illogical reasoning.

Surprised

Oh, that was MF!

No surprise then Rolling Eyes

OK, lets say 1000 children get molested in one year.

Only 3 of them are molested by priests.

Newspapers and media don't have time/print space to report every incident.

Which 3 cases do you think will they will decide to be newsworthy?

Furthermore, 99% of children molested by priests and other outwardly religious people (within Christiandom) are victims of Catholic institutions which wrongly forbid their priests from normal sexual relations.

This unBiblical doctrine creates an abnormally high occurance of abnormal sexual behaviour amongst the Catholic Priesthood.

This wrong doctrine, is a doctrine of man, it is not biblical at all and should be abolished.

CHEERS

AGS

.

#117: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: Fiestita, Location: Santa Fe

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:16 pm
—
If God exists... Buddah, Alá, Zeus and many others exists also. Think about that, wouldn't be Zeus angry after more than two thousands year without any sacrifice in mount Olimpus?

#118: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: papa_whisky,

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:18 pm
—
Gosh this is still going on! I will be happy to bet against any of you changing the beliefs of others during the life of this thread.

Small error regarding the UN. The UN is better described as Secular, not Atheist. Atheism is the rejection of the belief of deities not something that is part of the UN's mandate, Secularity is the separation of religion (usually with respect to a State) without being aligned to any one religion.

#119: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: MajorFrank,

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:37 am
—

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

(thats sarcasm Sheldon Wink

)

Universities don't make laws, various government offices make laws. Religions have an access to these government offices and have always had their say in what laws are passed etc. There is almost always at least one 100% religious party in most European and other western nations and religions plays a major part in politics. Even so called leftist political parties have difficulty gaining power if they go against religion in their nation.

But to underline, universities don't make laws.

Quote:

Yes, Mars was one of God's lesser feats.
The entire universe is God's creation, so one small planet is no big deal.

There is no difference between you and a babbling toddler who believes in santa clause etc. Or maybe I should compare to an insane person since even most kids will learn the difference between fairy tales and reality.

Quote:

They have been told.

You have told them? I guess they ignored since they are using fact-based science instead of fairytales.

Quote:

Yeah, but lets keep this conversation to truth and facts and keep those fairytale theories in the science maganzines Wink

A question, do you force others into your beliefs? IMO it's wrong to force others into these crazy religious cults.

Quote:

Oh really, i don't think so. In fact i know your fingers grew as a direct result of programming.

Bunch of crazy babble.

#120: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 9:14 am
—

Fiestita wrote (View Post):

If God exists... Buddah, Alá, Zeus and many others exists also. Think about that, wouldn't be Zeus angry after more than two thousands year without any sacrifice in mount Olimpus?

Oh, i'm sure Zeus would not be very happy about the lack of attention.

Confused

#121: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:05 am
—

papa_whisky wrote (View Post):

Gosh this is still going on!

Sure is

papa_whisky wrote (View Post):

I will be happy to bet against any of you changing the beliefs of others during the life of this thread..

You could well be right papa

Wether or not the lost souls (atheists), who say in this thread that there is no God, change their minds or not, is not the imperative here.

Sure it would be great, if, when i arrive in heaven, i meet MF and other ex-atheists there, but, there are other lost souls reading this thread.

They may not be entering the conversation, but that is not important.

If some of these spectators are prompted to reevaluate their beliefs and, if just one believes the truth and accepts God's generous gift of eternal life through Jesus Christ, then its all worth the effort Cool

papa_whisky wrote (View Post):

Small error regarding the UN. The UN is better described as Secular, not Atheist.

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

The U.N. is a secular organisation, so is the E.U.

Thats what i said Wink

The UN does not express a belief in God, by default that makes the UN a nonbelieving organisation.
(This is not saying that some UN staff are not God believing)

From God's perspective, you are either FOR HIM, or AGAINST HIM, there is no grey area

CHEERS

AGS

.

Last edited by ArmeeGruppeSud on Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

#122: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: Fiestita, Location: Santa Fe

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:10 pm
—
I think God went on vacation long ago, especially in the 1939-1945 period.

#123: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:01 pm
—

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

But to underline, universities don't make laws.

OH MF, did you forget your reading glasses again?

Nobody, that includes myself, ever said that universities make laws.

Quote:

Yes, Mars was one of God's lesser feats.
The entire universe is God's creation, so one small planet is no big deal.

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

There is no difference between you and a babbling toddler who believes in santa clause etc.

Awww poor insecure MF, when MF is faced with facts that totally refute his flawed belief system MF withdraws behind a barrage of peurile mockery .

That is just so sad MF Sad

Just for the record, i don't belive in fairy tales, not Snow White, not Santa Claus, not Evolution Theory, nor Peter Pan. Very Happy

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

Or maybe I should compare to an insane person since even most kids will learn the difference between fairy tales and reality.

So i guess you must be the exception Razz

Quote:

They have been told.

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

You have told them?.

Not personally, but they would need to have spent their entire lives as hermits in a cave to have avoided hearing about the truth.

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

I guess they ignored since they are using fact-based science instead of fairytales

To the contrary, if they believe that there is no God who created the universe and that the universe just happenned with no cause (that itself is unscientific), then they do believe a fairytale.

Oh, and scientists are not using fact based science to try to explain the reason for the universe's existence.

They are using theories to try to explain the facts.

Scientific theories are constantly changing, being scrapped as facts continuingly refute their theories. So they just make up a new theory, which atheists just accept as fact because that suits them to use it as an excuse not to face the reality of God.

Logic:

If there is no cause, then there is no effect.

No action or event is without cause.

Here is the fairy tale that you believe MF

Once upon a time, a massive amount of energy appeared, without a source or cause, in an apparently infinite void, which exist for no reason and without cause.

For no reason and without cause , this massive amount of sourceless energy concentrated itself in one microscopic point and then, for no reason and without cause exploded.

This sourceless energy also, for no reason and without cause, arranged itself into various structured elements.

These elements, for no reason and without cause, formed stars and planets.

Eventually, for no reason and without cause, one planet just happenned to be perfectly formed to be suitable for habitation.

Then, for no reason and without cause, life just happenned.

Then, for no reason and without cause, lthe DNA genetic code just happenned.

(The code wrote itself)

There, that is the atheists fairytale of the creation of the universe without God

Maybe you believe a fairy, not God, created the universe and is the source of life

The fairy waved her wand and "POOF" life just suddenly appeared

Well you must believe in fairies MF, i mean why couldn't they exist.

You obviously believe all sorts of things just appear, for no reason and without cause Laughing

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

A question, do you force others into your beliefs?

No, i don't, do you ?

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

IMO it's wrong to force others into these crazy religious cults.

Agreed, it is wrong to force people into crazy religious cults.
It is also wrong to teach children, even adults, a lie that jeopardizes their opportunity to enjoy life in eternity

Quote:

Oh really, i don't think so. In fact i know your fingers grew as a direct result of programming.

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

Bunch of crazy babble.

So you don't think your fingers grew because of the programming in your genetic blueprint.

Do you realy believe your fingers were an accidental fluke, your fingers "just happenned"? Wink

THAT IS PRETTY MUCH THE UNSCIENTIFIC EVOLUTION THEORY MODEL.

There was earth, a lifeless planet, then, suddenly, for no reason and without cause,

POOF!!

LIFE just appeared Rolling Eyes

So, you do believe in fairy tales.

CHEERS

AGS

.

Last edited by ArmeeGruppeSud on Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:21 am; edited 2 times in total

#124: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:09 pm
—

Fiestita wrote (View Post):

I think God went on vacation long ago, especially in the 1939-1945 period.

Not at all...

God was busy during WW2

If not for his many interventions, the Axis would probably have won WW2.

Don't have time right now, my impatient young wife is in bed awaiting me.

But the coldest winter, since Napoleon, saved Russiain 1941 .

The wind that blew German bombers off course so they bombed London which changed the Battle of Britain, otherwise Britain would probablyhave fallen.

God's little tweaks saved the US carriers at Pearl Harbor and Midway.

The German naval code falling into allied hands and many other "strokes of Luck" were actually gifts from God which all contributed to the eventual allied victory.

CHEERS
AGS

.

Last edited by ArmeeGruppeSud on Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:49 pm; edited 1 time in total

#125: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: US_Brake, Location: USA

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:44 pm
—
The Australian Aboriginal Mythology sure is beautiful. Dreamtime anyone?

Last edited by US_Brake on Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:05 pm; edited 1 time in total

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#126: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: Fiestita, Location: Santa Fe

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:24 pm
—

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Fiestita wrote (View Post):

I think God went on vacation long ago, especially in the 1939-1945 period.

Not at all...

God was very busy during WW2

If not for his many interventions, the Axis would have won WW2.

Don't have time right now, my impatient young wife is in bed awaiting me.

But the coldest winter since napoleon in 1941 saved Russia.

The wind that blew German bombers off course so they bombed London which changed the Battle of Britain, otherwise Britain would have fallen.

God's little tweaks saved the US carriers at Pearl Harbor and Midway.

The German naval code falling into allied hands and many other "strokes of Luck" were actually gifts from God which all contributed to the eventual allied victory.

CHEERS
AGS

.

And why is necessary Axis "the evil"?

Besides, if you consider casualties taken by bullets or salves, and the ones due to the cold climate, then the conclusion is easy:

By January 1942...

+ Whermatch had 182.608 dead, 621.308 wounded and 35.439 missing, a total of 839.355 casualties in the eastern front.
+ Casualties of total or partial freezing of bodies is estimated at 200.000 in the most communist historians (german historians usually talk about 100.000 casualties due to freezing).

So Red Army did defeat Whermatch in military ways, like blasting the shit out of them, without god's help. Also why would God help a regime that predicates atheism (remember one of Marx's maxes: "Religion is people's opium")?

#127: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: Panzermayer,

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:14 pm
—
Is AGS a super troll? Twisted Evil

Quote:

Just for the record, i don't belive in fairy tales, not Snow White, not Santa Claus, not evolution, nor Peter Pan. Very Happy

We witness evolution everyday (London 2012 olympics) but I agree, the 'theory' is not 100% airtight because nobody saw animals evolve, etc. And if god made us, why did it gave us pointless tailbones or teeth? some more info: http://www.freewebs.com/oolon/SMOGGM.htm

And take in mind that nobody mentions jezus in anything like 35 years after his 'death'. Why is that?

If there was a god, it did a lousy job! Because it feels guilty for its bad work, everybody goes to heaven Cool

#128: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:14 am
—

Fiestita wrote (View Post):

And why is necessary Axis "the evil"?

Who said the AXIS were evil?

Fiestita wrote (View Post):

besides, if you consider casualties taken by bullets or salves, and the ones due to the cold climate, then the conclusion is easy:

By January 1942...

+ Whermatch had 182.608 dead, 621.308 wounded and 35.439 missing, a total of 839.355 casualties in the eastern front.
+ Casualties of total or partial freezing of bodies is estimated at 200.000 in the most communist historians (german historians usually talk about 100.000 casualties due to freezing).

Yes, the casualties were one aspect of how the winter of 41 disabled the Wehrmacht and prevented them from Capturing Moscow (and many other objectives).
The intense cold of that winter, did not just freeze soldiers.
It froze the Panzers, their supply trucks, the Luftwaffe was frozen too.

Fiestita wrote (View Post):

So Red Army did defeat Whermatch in military ways, like blasting the shit out of them, without god's help.

Excuse me!

Until the Wehrmacht were frozen to a standstill, the Germans were TOTALLY WINNING, especially in the "blasting the shit out of them" department.

The Soviets were only saved by the bell (God's divine winter = the bell)

Fiestita wrote (View Post):

Also why would God help a regime that predicates atheism (remember one of Marx's maxes: "Religion is people's opium")?

Yes, i am well aware of Marxist anti-religious status.
God never does anything for just one rerason, so i will not pretend to know all the reasons for all of God's actions (i am not omniscient, only God is).

We can safely say that it suited God's long term plans for humanity.

But just to give you a simple answer that you can grasp.

At the time, Marxist Russia was the lesser of the 2 evils.

For another;

If Russia had fallen, Germany would have turned West again, conquered Britain and may have ruled Europe for 1000 years (as Hitler had planned).

Then North Africa and the middle east.

With alll the rest defeated, Germany and Japan could have then invaded America.

Then there would eventually be the Gold medal playoff between Japan and Germany for Global domination. Now there is a good "What IF" topic for the W@W Forum.

CHEERS

AGS

.

#129: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:43 am
—

Panzermayer wrote (View Post):

Is AGS a super troll?

Thankyou for the compliment (i think) Laughing

Panzermayer wrote (View Post):

We witness evolution everyday (London 2012 olympics).

WOW!, and DRAT!

Have been watching the London olympic games and i missed the part where a human being evovled into a new species (homo Olympus).

Sorry, but you are wrong, there was no new species at London Olympic village.
It was just a man withy a very bad case of herpes and, if he has children, they will not carry that gene (thank God).

What you do witness every day at the Olympic games is evidence of the generous creative design of God who instilled many great qualities in humanity which can achieve amazing feats in the eyes of the unfit and untrained couch potato.

Yes, by designed, planned excersise, diet and training, we can improve the physical ability of an invidual, and using God's patented DNA program, these qualiities can be inherited by the next generation.
But if the next generation sit on the couch, they will pass their flabby genes to their kids Laughing

We all know that we with selective training and breeding programs can make improvements within species and even create new breeds within a species.

But even with man's science, we cannot, by plan, create a new species (which scientific fairytale says happenned by accident Laughing

)

Panzermayer wrote (View Post):

but I agree, the 'theory' is not 100% airtight because nobody saw animals evolve, etc.)

Hey, their theory aint even 50% airtight, in fact it wont hold water, or sand, or rocks Laughing

A scientific fact needs to be reproduceable to be proveable. Cool

Even with their 2012 level sciences they cant do, on purpose, what they say "happenned by accident". Laughing

God's simplest biological creations are far too advanced for man to emulate Laughing

Panzermayer wrote (View Post):

And if god made us, why did it gave us pointless tailbones or teeth? some more info: http://www.freewebs.com/oolon/SMOGGM.htm)

Our tailbone is not pointless Wink

Do you mean wisdom teeth are pointless?

If people never lose any of their other teeth, they would seem pointless.

Sometimes i think God did/made some things just to make people ask questions.

After all, God did invent humour too Wink

There are plenty of various explanations for those.

My favourite one is that all those examples are proof against evolution Wink

Oh you want links involved:

http://christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c038.html
http://carm.org/atheism
http://emach.wordpress.com/2008/06/23/10-questions-every-intelligent-atheist-must-answer/
http://carm.org/an-examination-of-atheisms-truth-claims
http://www.godandscience.org/evolution/index.html
http://www.seekfind.net/Atheisms_Problem_With_Logic_Why_Atheists_Cant_Logically_Hold_Their_Opinion.html

Panzermayer wrote (View Post):

And take in mind that nobody mentions jezus in anything like 35 years after his 'death'. Why is that?

You must be speak about written literature.
People could not stop talking about him after he died, Jesus was a "Hot topic" in Jerusalem.

As far as recorded letters (the Gospels, Acts & the Epistles of the Bible), yes, those that were included in the Bible, were all written later than 35AD.

I'm sure Jesus got plenty of mentions in letters which were not saved for posterity, that were written before 35AD.

Panzermayer wrote (View Post):

If there was a god, it did a lousy job! Because it feels guilty for its bad work, everybody goes to heaven Cool

Everybody goes to heaven. Who told you that heresy?

CHEERS

AGS

P.S. ATHEIST SCIENCE theorises it took 4 billion years for man to evolve from a single celled life form.

But we all KNOW, that a single celled life form evovles into a man in just 9 months, the way it was programmed to Wink

.

Last edited by ArmeeGruppeSud on Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:15 am; edited 1 time in total

#130: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:53 am
—
What ever happened to just doing the right thing?

#131: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:50 am
—

platoon_michael wrote (View Post):

What ever happened to just doing the right thing?

When secularist rejected God to become atheists they also rejected his moral precepts, they:
threw out the baby with the bathwater

Without the absolute morals handed to us by God, morality, for the atheist, becomes entirely subjective.

Whats is good , equates to: "What is good for me".

Secular society, ruled by atheist moral precepts, will undoubtedly degenerate morally.

Look around Michael, surely, unless you are deaf, dumb and blind, you will have noticed it already happenning in your life time.

It is prophesised in the Bible which has a 100% success rate.

An Atheistic Secular society, with a humanisti morality will do what it thinks is best for mankind.

Like the Nazis, they would seek to create an perfecrt people, killing embryos and even babies born with certain traits judged as defects.

Eventually, you could be aborted for having the wrong eye color.

Last edited by ArmeeGruppeSud on Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:09 pm; edited 1 time in total

#132: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: US_Brake, Location: USA

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 5:28 am
—
"When secularist rejected God to become atheists they also rejected his moral precepts"

AGS this is typical Cult-Leader type talk. Jim Jones type rap. You should really check yourself bro.

First you lable "other" people, call them names like secularists, atheists (loaded terms).

Of course "other people" have no moral precepts, if they did you wouldnt be special. You are not going to be accepted by a cult unless you share a belief that your groups is blessed by the creator of the universe and stand in stark contrast to the evil ones...

The reality is that all humans have moral precepts and the are very similar reguardless of religious or ethnic background. The reality is that atheists, secularist, homosexuals, and devoted religious people are the same people, each just as right and good as the other. I know that is a hard concept to follow but think about it.

"Without the absolute morals handed to us by God, morality, for the atheist, becomes entirely subjective"

Morality is subjective. Human being invented morality, and continue to shape it with language and culture. Humans also invented God and Mythology to cope with the mysteries of life. No suprise there!

"Secular society, ruled by atheist moral precepts, will undoubtedly degenerate morally"

Is that to say that, Religious society, ruled by believer moral precepts, will undoubtedly advance morally?

Human being are going to behave as humans, reguardless of labels.

"It is prophesised in the Bible which has a 100% success rate"

Bible Prophesy is bullshit. Same with soothsayers, palm readers, psychics, etc.

#133: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: Fiestita, Location: Santa Fe

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:47 pm
—

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Who said the AXIS were evil?

I though you, as you said God helped Red Army.

Excuse me!

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Until the Wehrmacht were frozen to a standstill, the Germans were TOTALLY WINNING, especially in the "blasting the shit out of them" department.

The Soviets were only saved by the bell (God's divine winter = the bell)

I totally disagree with that. Engine freezes were equals to both, and freezing casualties represented 10% in the worst case and affected both armies as well (until the arrive of soviet reserves the december 5th soviet army did not have winter clothing either). Is a matter of fact also, the fact that what stopped Operation Typhoon was the mud, not the snow. When the snow frozen the ground, Panzers could roll over again, and most of Soviet Army officers agree that the frozen ground took away the T-34's suspension system advantage and suited a perfect ground for the panzertruppe, especially the Pz IIIJ.

Also, temperatures weren't record cold until the december 5th, and Luftwaffe was able to fly most of the time, but the soviet AA guns and the VVS continued to stiffen. They did so a great job defending Moscow's skies, that german bombers could attack the capital's last fortification ring only once in the whole Operation Tycoon.

Another fact of the Red Army win is the fact that despite Smolensk, Krasnograd, Rhzev, Vyazma, and Novgorod, the krauts did not reach crutial objectives for an encirclement like Klin, Kalinin or Tula (they reached the cities, but Red Army defended three of them bravely). Red Army did loose 151 divisions, mainly due to earlier encirclements, but it's reserves by december 5th were of 156 divisions (32 armor brigades also) only in the moscow section.

I will now quote general Halder in his august 8th diary writing: 'The actual situation puts in evidence that we have underestimated the red colosus... Soviet divisions are not armed and equiped at the same level of our standards and ther tactical command is mostly deficient. But they are out ther and if we blast a docen of them, they simply put another docen.'

So maybe it weren't "fair" for the Whermatch, but Red Army exploited really well their manpower and ther superior industry.

Even supposing that the Whermatch would have reached Moscow before december 5th, the krauts just hadn't enough men to hold their objectives against fresh and fairly equipped soviet reserves, they were extremely low in tanks and AT guns not because of the freezes, the krauts had serious loses in July, 558 tanks (112 PzKpfw-II, 182 PzKpfw-38t, 155 PzKpfw-III y 109 PzKpfw-IV), 429 (104 PzKpfw-II, 183 PzKpfw-38t, 74 PzKpfw-III y 68 PzKpfw-IV) in august. In the other hand they did only loose 325 tanks (70 PzKpfw-II, 102 PzKpfw-38t, 113 PzKpfw-III y 40 PzKpfw-IV) in december.

If you take in consideration the fact that the Whermatch launched Barbarossa with less than 5.000 tanks in all types, then they lost 20% of them in the first two months. These are huge loses for such a large offensive, and the cold did not affect the krauts in summer.

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Do your really think that the Whermatch could be able to outmatch the USA superior industry?

Seriously I don't see german industry building one ship a day, even controlling the whole european continent.

#134: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: Blackstump, Location: Hunter Valley Australia

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 6:36 am
—

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Blackstump wrote (View Post):

I like to think that i'm as decent as any righteous religious individual, without any Muppet telling me what i need to do to find salvation.

CHEERS

AGS

.

In reply AGS
1st If judgement is left to others than they are judgeing you on their morals, how would you feel if Anders Breivik sat on that panel ?
Only the individuall knows his own morals only the individuall knows how low he willl go.
Better for me, to judge that, than say... you (let not you judge others less you be judged yourself )
You say you strive for self improvement with gods help, and that your less than perfect.
I know that i am less than perfect, and i strive to improve myself by helping others without resorting to convert them to my beliefs.

2nd Muppets are made by men, as is your god, one can believe in either that is their choice, i prefer to believe in myself.

3rd If you believe that your god will give you eternal salvation than good on you. I hope everybodys god will do the same. Personaly i think there all barking mad.

#135: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: Blackstump, Location: Hunter Valley Australia

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:40 am
—
[.[/quote]

I guess if you live in Australia then you can live your entire life in that backwoods area that you live in and not engage people in any type of serious discussion and come face to face with how things are. That's how Muslims live their lives, they live where they are and rarely meet for example western people who could tell them how things are and educate them so they stay religious. You are just like them. Congratz eh?[/quote]

In reply to MajorFrank
So Australia is a backwoods area? in comparison to ?
We do not engage in serious discussion? with people who know how things are ?
This is how Muslims are ?
Muslims rarely meet western people ?
You need to tell them how things are?
You need to educate Muslims so they stay religious?
And you call me backwood....
Amazing!

#136: NOT SO HOT religious discussions :wink: Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:39 pm
—
"When secularist rejected God to become atheists they also rejected his moral precepts"

US_Brake wrote (View Post):

AGS this is typical Cult-Leader type talk. Jim Jones type rap. You should really check yourself bro.

OK, i will check myself by the following definitions of "CULT" Wink

___________________________________________________________________________

Definition of a Cult (Ref. http://www.xenu.net/cic/definit.html)

Every cult can be defined as a group having all of the following 5 characteristics:

1. It uses psychological coercion to recruit, indoctrinate and retain its members X
2. It forms an elitist totalitarian society X
3. Its founder leader is self-appointed, dogmatic, messianic, not accountable and has charisma X
4. It believes 'the end justifies the means' in order to solicit funds, recruit people X
5. Its wealth does not benefit its members or society X

DRAT , scored 0/5 there Sad

___________________________________________________________________________

"What is the definition of a cult?" (Ref. http://www.gotquestions.org/cult-definition.html)

The specific Christian definition of a cult is “a religious group that denies one or more of the fundamentals of biblical truth.” In simpler terms, a cult is a group that teaches something that will cause a person to remain unsaved if he/she believes it. As distinct from a religion, a cult is a group that claims to be part of the religion, yet denies essential truth(s) of that religion. A Christian cult is a group that denies one or more of the fundamental truths of Christianity, while still claiming to be Christian.

The two most common teachings of cults are that Jesus was not God and that salvation is not by faith alone. A denial of the deity of Christ results in Jesus’ death not being a sufficient payment for our sins. A denial of salvation by faith alone results in salvation being achieved by our own works, something the Bible vehemently and consistently denies.

DRAT, i failed this cultist defintion too Sad

___________________________________________________________________________
CHRISTIAN DEFINITION (Ref. http://www.religio.de/cudef.html)
CULT = Any group which deviates from Biblical, orthodox, historical Christianity. e.i. :
They deny:
The Deity of Christ;
His physical resurrection;
His personal and physical return to earth
and salvation by FAITH alone.

Hmmm, i dont deny any of those

DRAT, i failed the cultist defintion here too Sad

___________________________________________________________________________

Oh well Confused

, it seems i will never make it as a "Cult leader" Sad

Please don't label me with the term "Cult" (loaded term), when all i am is an average everyday evangelistic Christian, who just wants to see a lot of CC fans in enjoying paradise in eternity Cool

US_Brake wrote (View Post):

First you lable "other" people, call them names like secularists, atheists (loaded terms)..

Are you speaking about my labelling MF as an "Atheist"?

Actually, MF labelled himself as an "Atheist"

Or are you saying that i should not use the term "atheist" at all, even when referring to "atheists"?

Should i replace the terms: "Atheist" & "Atheists" with the phrases: "person who does not believe that there is a God" & "People who do not believe that there is a God"?

If so, that would be so tiresome, i mean all that extra typing Sad

US_Brake wrote (View Post):

Of course "other people" have no moral precepts, if they did you wouldnt be special. You are not going to be accepted by a cult unless you share a belief that your groups is blessed by the creator of the universe and stand in stark contrast to the evil ones....

Oh i see now, does "other people" mean: "People who do not belief that there is a God"?

Are you implying that i think i am "special", i hope not Surprised

Actually, i think all people are special, esepcially as God created this entire universe just for us Very Happy

Thats pretty special Very Happy

Get this straight please, I do not think i am better than anyone else, nor am i self-righteous, as i have no righteousness of my own, at all (read my earlier posts)

US_Brake wrote (View Post):

The reality is that all humans have moral precepts and the are very similar reguardless of religious or ethnic background. The reality is that atheists, secularist, homosexuals, and devoted religious people are the same people, each just as right and good as the other. I know that is a hard concept to follow but think about it.

OK then, can we assume that you share approximately the same moral precepts as the rapists, murderers, fraudsters, robbers etc that reside in our societies (preferably behind bars)?

"Without the absolute morals handed to us by God, morality, for the atheist, becomes entirely subjective".

US_Brake wrote (View Post):

Morality is subjective.

. For criminals it is.

They think it is morally ok for them to steal from other people (i dont mean atheists) and immoral for other people (i dont mean atheists) to steal from them.

That is a totally subjective morality system.

US_Brake wrote (View Post):

Human being invented morality, and continue to shape it with language and culture!.

Morals vary from culture to culture and invariably the belief systems of each culture have a strong influence on their inherant moral systems.

FACT: Beliefs systems influence morality systems.

A Religious belief's morality system includes defined moral absolutes, which creates a stable moral base.

A "People who do not belief that there is a God" morality system has no defined moral absolutes, therefore, their morality will depend on what makes them happy, or unhappy (subjectivity).

US_Brake wrote (View Post):

Humans also invented God.

No, God invented human beings.
Finite humans are neither powerful enough, nor sophisticated enough to create an infinite God Smile

"Secular society, ruled by atheist moral precepts, will undoubtedly degenerate morally"

US_Brake wrote (View Post):

Is that to say that, Religious society, ruled by believer moral precepts, will undoubtedly advance morally?.

US_Brake wrote (View Post):

Human being are going to behave as humans, reguardless of labels..

There is no disputing that Smile

Though, people behave better when they are governed by moral systems set by a higher authority.

e.g. a child behaves better when its parent (older, wiser, smarter authority) sets down rules of behaviour.

Likewise, humanity behaves better when an older, wiser, smarter authority (God) sets down rules of behaviour Wink

US_Brake wrote (View Post):

"It is prophesised in the Bible which has a 100% success rate"
Bible Prophesy is bullshit. Same with soothsayers, palm readers, psychics, etc.

Obviously you have little knowledge of, and have never properly studied, Biblical prophecies.
RE: soothsayers, palm readers, psychics, a great deal of what they say is BS and i personally recommend that you avoid them.

Just so that i finish on a point that we both agree on..........

CC3 ROCKS

CHEERS

AGS

.

#137: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:44 pm
—
@ Fiestita & Blackstump

My young wife is impatiently waiting in bed again, so i must reply to your posts later

CHEERS

AGS

.

#138: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: US_Brake, Location: USA

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:20 pm
—
How old is the planet earth?

Modern Science: 4.5 Billion years old

The Bible: under 10,000 years old

______________________________________-

What shape is the planet earth?

Modern Science: Round like a Ball

The Bible: Flat and square like a table

_______________________________________

If modern science is correct at 4.5 Billion years old, then the Bible is wrong at 10,000 years.

If God wrote the Bible, then he either didn't want humans to know the truth about the age of the planet he made, or he is real bad with math. Just think of how much more credibility God and the Bible would have if God had been accurate about the age and shape of the earth in his bestselling book. Genesis chapter one; 4.5 Billion years ago I created the planet earth from a massive ball of matter and placed it in motion around the sun. After watching evolution of mammals for a few Billion I mated with a Primate and Adam was born etc.

The truth is that our planet is 4.5 Billion years old. The men who wrote the Bible had no idea what the age of the planet was, they didn't even know that the earth was round.

How much credibility can you give to various authors of the Bible about anything they write if they are wrong about the age and shape of the earth?

#139: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:22 am
—

Fiestita wrote (View Post):

I though you, as you said God helped Red Army.

Excuse me!

Never said that, i wrote:

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

If not for His many interventions, the Axis would probably have won WW2.
...................................................................................
But the coldest winter, since Napoleon, saved Russiain 1941

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Fiestita wrote (View Post):

I totally disagree with that.

Of course you do Smile

Fiestita wrote (View Post):

Engine freezes were equals to both

Then that means NO MOVEMENT, therefore, NO GERMAN ADVANCE!

Fiestita wrote (View Post):

and freezing casualties represented 10% in the worst case and affected both armies as well

The Soviets had their winter coats handy, the Germans had to get them from dead Russians and there was noot enough of them
RE the rest, i seriously don't have time to even read it all.

So do you really think the coldest winter since Napaleon's failed invasion of Russia had absolutely no disadvantaging effect on the invading Germans?

If so, you need a brain transplant urgently.

If you are smart enough to admit that those unusually diffucult condition may have slowed the Germans by at least 5%, then you will be smart enough to realise that 5% could make the difference from being South of Moscow, or North of Moscow.
It could also all make the difference between Leningrad falling or not.
Had those 2 key cities fallen before Christmas, it would have been such a massive morale crushing blow to the Red Army to which, though they had fought valiantly, sufferring one humiliating crushing defeat after another, i doubt they could have recovered from. Sad

Fiestita wrote (View Post):

Do your really think that the Whermatch could be able to outmatch the USA superior industry?

You are not really envisaging the entire picture are you?

Look at it this way. do you think the 1940s USA could outmatch the industry of all Europe and Asia?

Fiestita wrote (View Post):

Seriously I don't see german industry building one ship a day, even controlling the whole european continent.

Seriously they would not need to, they can sink more ships a day than the Americans could build Wink

Not to mention the Japanese Navy and the British Navy (unless they scuttled it upon surrender).

Imagine what good would the US navy be with 1000 U-boats off its eats coast and the whole Jap Navy off the West coast.

Like i said, its a "What if" topic, i dont have time to debate this trainwreck any further, goodbye.

CHEERS

AGS

.

#140: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:24 am
—
@ Blackstump & US_Brake

My young wife is waiting impatiently again and i am forbidden to answer more than 1 post a night, so i must reply to your posts later

CHEERS

AGS

.

#141: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: MajorFrank,

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:53 pm
—

Blackstump wrote (View Post):

Quote:

In reply to MajorFrank
So Australia is a backwoods area? in comparison to ?
We do not engage in serious discussion? with people who know how things are ?
This is how Muslims are ?
Muslims rarely meet western people ?
You need to tell them how things are?
You need to educate Muslims so they stay religious?
And you call me backwood....
Amazing!

I was just drawing some much needed attention to AGS's irrationality and also his rabid anti-Muslim rhetoric that seems to border on hate speech. Which is strange, I would imagine that as a religious person he would find fellow religious folks as his kin. I guess not.

However I'm not surprised, I know the type. "My imaginary creature is the only correct one, yours is the wrong one". The type of thinking is very similar to that professed by some radical Muslims. So that was my link, I may have not worded it correctly.

As for Australia being a backwoods, well I hope it isn't. That link posted by US_Brake earlier about aboriginal stuff sure looks interesting.

AGS,

remember, if you divorce, you go straight to hell! Twisted Evil

Ta ta,

MF

#142: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: US_Brake, Location: USA

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:52 pm
—

Quote:

remember, if you divorce, you go straight to hell!

Not only does the women take your sanity and money, they also take your eternal soul if the relationship fails. Ouch!

#143: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: MajorFrank,

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:40 pm
—
US_Brake,

sure is nasty.

Since this thread has long since degenerated into a slugfest between 'religion' and 'non-religion' or as I like to call it, 'reason', here's an atheist billboard from US aimed against both Romney and Obama.

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/13/first-on-cnn-atheist-group-targets-presidential-candidates-faith-with-billboards/?hpt=hp_t1

#144: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:25 am
—
Personally I think it's just comical to watch all you idiots debate this,debate that,this view,that view these feelings,those feelings.

And yet none of you dumb asses or any of the other dumb asses like you in the world for that fact can see or know or understand what happens when doing the right thing?

Are any of you even capable of doing that?

Or do you have to wait till 12 hours of debating has passed to be sure your doing the right thing?

It's not rocket science and yet you treat it as if it was harder than rocket science.

Thank God I'm 46,I figure if I'm lucky I have 25-35 years left of dealing with this shit.
Then I can just kick back.

#145: Relatively cool religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:27 am
—

Blackstump wrote (View Post):

1st If judgement is left to others than they are judgeing you on their morals, how would you feel if Anders Breivik sat on that panel ?

Uncomfortable, because Anders Breivik would not approve my Asian wife.

But before an impartial, righteous, omniscient judge (God), i could get justice Cool

Blackstump wrote (View Post):

(let not you judge others less you be judged yourself )

. Nice Biblical quote Smile

Did you know that the Bible is the single greatest source of wisdom known to man, yes, eclipsing even the writings of confucious

Blackstump wrote (View Post):

I know that i am less than perfect, and i strive to improve myself by helping others without resorting to convert them to my beliefs.

If that were entirely true, you would not be here promulgating your beliefs Wink

Blackstump wrote (View Post):

2nd Muppets are made by men, as is your god, one can believe in either that is their choice, i prefer to believe in myself.

Incorrect, men are made by God and muppets are made by men.

Blackstump wrote (View Post):

3rd If you believe that your god will give you eternal salvation than good on you. I hope everybodys god will do the same.

That is a truly noble hope my friend, may the only true God become your God and bless you with eternal life Very Happy

CHEERS

AGS

.

Last edited by ArmeeGruppeSud on Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

#146: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: Fiestita, Location: Santa Fe

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:38 am
—

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

i seriously don't have time to even read it all.

Here's where I stop arguing with a dude that does not read what I write.

[/quote]Look at it this way. do you think the 1940s USA could outmatch the industry of all Europe and Asia?[/quote]

Yes, 1940s USA industry could outmatch even the rest of the world.

#147: Not so heated religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:50 pm
—
@ US_Brake, MF & platoon_michael

My young wife is waiting impatiently again and i am forbidden to answer more than 1 post a night from this thread, so i must reply to your posts later

CHEERS

AGS

.

Fiestita wrote (View Post):

Here's where I stop arguing with a dude that does not read what I write.

Well, you actually need to write stuff worth reading to get read.......

Fiestita wrote (View Post):

Yes, 1940s USA industry could outmatch even the rest of the world.

When people write absolute garbage like the above quote, they dont deserve to get read Rolling Eyes

#148: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: Fiestita, Location: Santa Fe

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:48 pm
—
Well I spoke with clear arguments, maybe you need to read about how did USA help URSS during WWII and see if they didn't outmatch de rest of the world.

And the casualties I've quoted can be corroborated here:

Horst Boog et al, "Germany and the Second World War: Volume IV: The Attack on the Soviet Union", (Oxford University Press, 1999) pp. 1120-1122

I'll also leave you a chart from: David M. Glantz, "The Soviet-German War 1941-1945: Myths and Realities: A Survey Essay" (Clemson University, South Caroline, 2001), p. 14

Now face the FACTS and not the useless chatter.

German "Barbarrossa" offensive was stalled already by mid July by heavy armor loses in Ukraine, as Kiev's resistance forced Heeresgruppe Mitte to head south to aid Heeresgruppe Sud instead of heading for Moscow.

AND THAT HAPPENED BEFORE WINTER ONSETS

#149: Re: Relatively cool religious discussions Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:25 pm
—

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

Uncomfortable, because Anders Breivik would not approve my Asian wife.

Why ? Is she Muslim?

You believe Breivik hates Asians?

He don’t, he hates Muslims....

#150: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:37 pm
—

Fiestita wrote (View Post):

Do your really think that the Whermatch could be able to outmatch the USA superior industry?

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):

You are not really envisaging the entire picture are you? Look at it this way. do you think the 1940s USA could outmatch the industry of all Europe and Asia?

In mid 1940th, USAs GDP output was about 50% of the world total output.

Besides, who said that Germany seeked world domination........

#151: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: davidssfx,

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:11 pm
—
Took some time this morning to read through this thread, since I'm usually interested in hearing about what people believe and their reasoning behind it.

some thoughts ...
Wouldn't it be amazing if there is a God (as described in the Bible) who is good and just, who created us and loves us?

If the Bible is true, and God is good and made us good ... then who's fault would it be if the intelligent agents He created decided to do evil things against God's instructions? Is it God's fault that a man kills another, or steals, or commits other sins?

Nehemiah 9:33
"However, You are just in all that has come upon us; for You have dealt faithfully, but we have done wickedly"

I've looked inside myself and at how this world operates, and honestly didn't like what I saw. I decided to search for more, and found the Gospel. Lots of good news for here and now, and eventually ...

Revelation 21:4
‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

sounds like a good deal to me Smile

david

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4m_dP2n-5W8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u0P9kwfF4s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmVxRl5bc4Y

Last edited by davidssfx on Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:15 am; edited 2 times in total

#152: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: US_Brake, Location: USA

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:47 pm
—
Kinda creepy how the Mormans sneak up on ya, Nehamiah is a dead giveaway.

Last edited by US_Brake on Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:48 am; edited 1 time in total

#153: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: davidssfx,

Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:07 am
—

US_Brake wrote (View Post):

Kinda creepy how the Mormans sneak up on ya, Nehamiah is a dead giveaway.

um, if you're referring to me ... I'm not Mormon. I don't know much about them either, so I don't understand the relevance of the other part of your post, or if it's even related to the topic of Mormons.

edit, just looked it up (remember hearing something about it before) ... anyway, not interested in buying your book either Smile

#154: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: US_Brake, Location: USA

Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:28 am
—
I stand corrected david, I mistook your post as LDS Proselytizing. It could go anywhere on this post, Lutherans vs Aliens. New Age vs Hinduism.

#155: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: davidssfx,

Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:40 am
—

US_Brake wrote (View Post):

I stand corrected david, I mistook your post as LDS Proselytizing. It could go anywhere on this post, Lutherans vs Aliens. New Age vs Hinduism.

no problem ... it's hard to know where a person is coming from without knowing them well, and especially true via internet forums. And just for the sake of clarity ... I wasn't knocking at your door Smile

#156: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: davidssfx,

Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:42 am
—

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Some other thoughts:
Its seems that there’s only a type of personality that wants to be worshiped and likes when people sucking up to them, here are some: Hitler, Stalin, Kim Jung II, Ceausescu, Rakosi, Jim Jones, and a few others.. I can’t really see “god” amongst them… I believe god prefers a more dignified relation with his creation.

Hi,
Hmm, don't we all like to be worshiped?
Perhaps true, sincere worship of God is a good remedy for our pride.

Also, isn't it correct to give credit where credit is due? ... if someone has done something very special for someone else, doesn't it seem right for both parties when the person receiving the favor says "thanks".

Conversely, isn't it an affront to purposely give credit to the wrong person ... or undermine the favor with contempt by not acknowledging it?

I personally find worshiping God/Jesus through song, prayer, thanksgiving and praise to be one of the most fulfilling things in my life.
I think genuine Biblical worship is more similar to the kind mentioned in the story of the woman who came to see Jesus, than the type you mention in your above statement.

Luke 7:
36 When one of the Pharisees invited Jesus to have dinner with him, he went to the Pharisee’s house and reclined at the table. 37 A woman in that town who lived a sinful life learned that Jesus was eating at the Pharisee’s house, so she came there with an alabaster jar of perfume. 38 As she stood behind him at his feet weeping, she began to wet his feet with her tears. Then she wiped them with her hair, kissed them and poured perfume on them.

39 When the Pharisee who had invited him saw this, he said to himself, “If this man were a prophet, he would know who is touching him and what kind of woman she is—that she is a sinner.”

40 Jesus answered him, “Simon, I have something to tell you.”

“Tell me, teacher,” he said.

41 “Two people owed money to a certain moneylender. One owed him five hundred denarii,[c] and the other fifty. 42 Neither of them had the money to pay him back, so he forgave the debts of both. Now which of them will love him more?”

43 Simon replied, “I suppose the one who had the bigger debt forgiven.”

“You have judged correctly,” Jesus said.

44 Then he turned toward the woman and said to Simon, “Do you see this woman? I came into your house. You did not give me any water for my feet, but she wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. 45 You did not give me a kiss, but this woman, from the time I entered, has not stopped kissing my feet. 46 You did not put oil on my head, but she has poured perfume on my feet. 47 Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven—as her great love has shown. But whoever has been forgiven little loves little.”

48 Then Jesus said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.”

49 The other guests began to say among themselves, “Who is this who even forgives sins?”

50 Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

Last edited by davidssfx on Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:02 am; edited 1 time in total

#157: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: davidssfx,

Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:49 am
—

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

The Biblical way to God's Kingdom is described as:

Matthew 7:13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

John 14:6
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

It seems to me that God is being very direct in His instructions, and gives good reasons for us to select the way that is to our advantage.
The Bible makes references to God's plan of salvation as being accessible to all and simple to understand ... yet few find it? Perhaps the problem isn't in the design of God's plan? It sounds like the choice is ours to make, and God let's us decide ... is that fair?

Is it unfair for a car manufacturer to instruct you to only put gasoline in your gas tank ... and not water, dish soap, of orange juice.
Is it cruel to tell your child not to stick a fork in the electrical outlet?

If you study the Bible, it's possible to understand why Jesus is the only way Smile

#158: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: davidssfx,

Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:18 am
—
Also, I've been wrestling with the dilemma of playing CC or not. It's the last and only game I play and mod.
I've been putting off this decision for some time, but if I'm honest with myself ... I believe that I should quit.

So today is the day Smile

#159: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: Stwa,

Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:48 am
—

US_Brake wrote (View Post):

I stand corrected david, I mistook your post as LDS Proselytizing. It could go anywhere on this post, Lutherans vs Aliens. New Age vs Hinduism.

Quiet everybody, Brake is trying to think. Laughing

#160: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:32 am
—

davidssfx wrote (View Post):

Hmm, don't we all like to be worshiped?

No, no, no no.. most of us don’t like to be worshiped. Though, there are a special type of personality who like that.

davidssfx wrote (View Post):

Also, isn't it correct to give credit where credit is due? ... if someone has done something very special for someone else, doesn't it seem right for both parties when the person receiving the favor says "thanks".

Conversely, isn't it an affront to purposely give credit to the wrong person ... or undermine the favor with contempt by not acknowledging it?

Yeh, if thanks is due, a thanks should be given.

davidssfx wrote (View Post):

A woman in that town who lived a sinful life learned [..] she began to wet his feet with her tears. Then she wiped them with her hair, kissed them and poured perfume on them.

To be totally honest, I do not believe many want that type of “worship”. If I would kiss and lick my fathers- or mothers feet’s (who created me) they would…
If my son would lick my feet’s and scream hallelujah and yahoo I would be very worried.
Na, I believe most prefers more dignified relations....

But if a sinful woman came and licked and kissed my feet, I would be tempted to let here carry on…

davidssfx wrote (View Post):

Is it cruel to tell your child not to stick a fork in the electrical outlet?

Another good comparison.

Lets test it: Lets say a parent only instruct SOME of here children about that electric socket danger, and the parent don’t instruct ALL of here children about the danger… What would you call that parent? Unfair? Neglectful? Or simply Cruel?

What do you call a God that only instruct SOME but not ALL his "children" how to come to heaven?
Given that one don’t indulge in a double standard… I mean, how many in the Americas heard about Jesus in 1400th?

davidssfx wrote (View Post):

It seems to me that God is being very direct in His instructions, and gives good reasons for us to select the way that is to our advantage.
The Bible makes references to God's plan of salvation as being accessible to all and simple to understand ... yet few find it?”

davidssfx wrote (View Post):

Perhaps the problem isn't in the design of God's plan? It sounds like the choice is ours to make, and God let's us decide ... is that fair?

A fair god must be time- and spatial invariant* or he would no be fair. So, how many bibles where there in say, year 100? How many had heard about god in the Americas up to 1492? How many up in Scandinavia had heard about the biblical god in say, year 700? So, -- fair?

It’s easy for you and me to sit in a suburb in 2012, educated, in a rich country where supply of bibles are so large they are even free. So, yeh, I guess most people in the western world have heard about Jesus and God and even own a bible or can get one if they pleases.

But see, beeing fair is reaching everyone!!!!
Evens the poorest and most remote people, in any time* at any place….

Anything but that is unfair.

So, either your God is unfair, or the Bible got it wrong.

*And from New Testament he must be time and spatial invariant from year 0-45 or so.

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#161: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: davidssfx,

Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:52 pm
—

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

No, no, no no.. most of us don’t like to be worshiped. Though, there are a special type of personality who like that.

hmm, if you walk into an room and a hundred people started clapping their hands and cheering because you had arrived ... how would you feel? I meant we all like being worshiped in a general sense, since we all seem suffer to from tendencies of pride.

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

I'm not an expert of the Bible, but from what I've read ... it seems God wants us to worship Him in Spirit and in truth.

John 4:23
"Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks."

The point I was trying to make (by posting the Bible story about the woman) was to simply shown a difference between your idea about how you think God wants to be worshiped, compared to the type of worship that is expressed towards God voluntarily by people who believe that Jesus is God when they meet Him and/or are thankful for want God/Jesus has done for them.
The woman was overwhelmed with emotion and gratitude at the realization of who Jesus was, and expressed thanks in her own way.

Another good comparison.

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Lets test it: Lets say a parent only instruct SOME of here children about that electric socket danger, and the parent don’t instruct ALL of here children about the danger… What would you call that parent? Unfair? Neglectful? Or simply Cruel?

What do you call a God that only instruct SOME but not ALL his "children" how to come to heaven?
Given that one don’t indulge in a double standard… I mean, how many in the Americas heard about Jesus in 1400th?

davidssfx wrote (View Post):

Perhaps the problem isn't in the design of God's plan? It sounds like the choice is ours to make, and God let's us decide ... is that fair?

You bring up some legitimate questions, but also make many assumptions.
We of course don't know what happens to people after death ... where their spirit goes (heaven, hell, or some interim state). We also don't know how each person was judged and by what measure.
There are many examples in the Bible of people perishing because of the way they decided to live their lives, which should make us wonder why.
We know that actions produce consequences, as seen in the physical world/universe we live in. The Bible clearly links our actions to consequences, and since we have the ability to predict the future outcome of our actions by means of prior experience (or someone's previous experience) or by trustworthy data related to the scenario ... then we are also accountable for the choices we make.
It may be that some of our choices have unfairly affected an innocent, but then again who would be at fault?

Your assumption that God has not given equal information and opportunity to everyone seems valid in the context which you have framed it. But the Bible also speaks about the record of nature and the abilities which God gave us all ... most importantly our conscience.

"Romans 1:
18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse."

According to the Bible every person should be able to recognize they are living in a created universe and are themselves part of that creation ... and therefore seek their creator. They should also realize the should do good things that reflect the intrinsic morality our inner voice conveys. As a result we should also realize we can not accomplish the acts which we would like to ... and therefore submit our lives to the Gospel in order to receive the power to begin to.

Perhaps many other inequalities are the product of the poor choices mankind has made throughout the ages. As mentioned before from the Bible ...
"However, You are just in all that has come upon us; for You have dealt faithfully, but we have done wickedly"

also, a side note about conscience taken from Matthew Henry's commentary

Conscience is that candle of the Lord which was not quite put out, no, not in the Gentile world. The heathen have witnessed to the comfort of a good conscience.

Be this thy brazen bulwark of defence,
Still to preserve thy conscious innocence.
- Hor.

and to the terror of a bad one:

No lash is heard, and yet the guilty heart
Is tortur'd with a self-inflicted smart
- Juv. Sat. 13.

Last edited by davidssfx on Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

#162: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: davidssfx,

Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:21 pm
—

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

So, either your God is unfair, or the Bible got it wrong.

You may have produced a false dilemma ... possibly due to a failure of imagination, or a failure to consider one or more genuine possibilities Smile

#163: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: davidssfx,

Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:51 pm
—

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

and lick

careful not to add in extra words, that may make something innocent seem absurd Rolling Eyes

#164: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:03 pm
—
1) Yeh, I see several...

2) Right, lets not do that.

#165: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: southern_land,

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:33 am
—

davidssfx wrote (View Post):

If you study the Bible, it's possible to understand why Jesus is the only way Smile

And if you study the penthouse forums you come to realise that although you never thought it could happen to you; actually it can... usually with a blond Shocked

#166: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: davidssfx,

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:54 am
—

southern_land wrote (View Post):

And if you study the penthouse forums you come to realise that although you never thought it could happen to you; actually it can... usually with a blond Shocked

I'll pass on that one ... was one of my toughest and longest battles, to break free from pornography. And now is something I'm really ashamed of ... wish I had started my life better so I didn't have to go through that. Oh well, it's great to have it in the past anyway.

#167: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: davidssfx,

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:05 am
—
I'm going to sign off this topic ... hope the best for you all Smile

david

#168: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: Blackstump, Location: Hunter Valley Australia

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:58 am
—
Funny how life at our age (im 51) changes us but makes us equal in a way. I was brought up to think for myself, tho my father was a freemason and my mother was a devout christian, (total opposites in their own way) . I rejected both , but was able to have these intelligent people except how i felt about their beliefs.
I get a good laugh at some of the statements here, but must admit i lean with Stalky and Southern Land, US Brake and others.
I hope those with their beliefs achieve their desires, and i hope that davidssx dosnt leave this forum because he feels confronted by us atheists or whatever were termed.
Debate is a good thing Platoon Micheal.. when it stops ... then starts the war..
But i think if my sides wrong then hell wont be so bad... the majority of us will be there
And ide like to get some battle on with Stalky and co.... plus a few beers.
Cya in Purgatory Gents.

#169: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:46 am
—
Yep. And beers.

#170: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: acebars,

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:49 am
—
Christian or other religions are nothing compared to the agro Muslims.

Its not a religion its a cult, if there was a God do you really think he'd tell one guy to try to subdue the whole world with fire and sword (same guy also happens to be a polygamous paedo).

Islam is hateful, aggressive, anti-semitic and homophobic, the worst of the other religions has nothing on it. Try a heated discussion with them, they will promise to behead you!

#171: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:09 am
—

US_Brake wrote (View Post):

What shape is the planet earth?

Modern Science: Round like a Ball

Actualy, Pre modern science knew that ;)

US_Brake wrote (View Post):

What shape is the planet earth?
......................................
The Bible: Flat and square like a table

@ US_Brake, if you had actually read the Bible, you would know that the shape of the earth is never mentioned Smile

That notion is an atheist's fallacy

That foolish notion comes from a complete misunderstanding of and misrepresentation of, Luke 4:5.

The misunderstanding stems from the ignorance of an atheist who wrongly assumed that Luke was implying that Jesus could see "all the kingdoms of the world" with ordinary physical vision.

It was then, as it is now, common knowledge, that nobody, using ordinary physical vision can see the entire world Rolling Eyes

_______________________________________

US_Brake wrote (View Post):

How old is the planet earth?

Modern Science: 4.5 Billion years old

That is just a guess, which is based on other guesses.

And is that guess speaking about the time the earth was spat of the sun?

Not that i dispute that approximate guess, it could be correct (approximately) Very Happy

US_Brake wrote (View Post):

The Bible: under 10,000 years old

This is just another atheist fallacy.

Again it is a total misunderstanding of biblical scripture.

Not just by atheists, but also by some Christians (who both, wrongly, interpret the 7 day creation as literal 24 hour earth days).

Of course 24 hour earth days never existed until AFTER the creation of the planet earth Rolling Eyes

The 7 day creation story is allegorical.

It is my personal belief, that the 7 day creation story (also remember Genesis 1-2 was recorded in Ancient Hebrewic poetic form, making it easy to pass from one generation to the next), was in fact, Adam's description of visions of the creation process, that were given to Adam over 7 days.

Of course there wEere no modern scientic terms included Smile

The: "Let the be light" and there was light, of Genesis 1:3, may well have been Adam's description of the Big Bang.

Making a song and dance over the ancient wording is of no consequence,

The important and essential message of the Genesis creation story is just this:
All that exists was created by God.

Ok, the silly 10,000 year concept is based on 7 day creation, plus the number of years calculated from the geneologies.

The geneologies are probably reasonably accurate, but how long the earth, or the universe existed before Adam is never explicitly mentioned in the Bible, so it could be 100 billions years old.

It really does not matter Wink

With those two fallacies exposed, the conclusions you made in your post, which were based on incorrect assumptions, become of no consequence.

CHEERS

AGS

.

#172: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: MajorFrank,

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:39 pm
—
I'll just leave these here.

Ta ta,

MF

#173: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: Fiestita, Location: Santa Fe

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:40 pm
—
I'm not sure about stereotypes like "muslims are mean" or "christian people burn out anybody who thinks different". "Mean Muslims" usually have political or economical reasons to send fanatics to bomb other people, and it is the church the institution that organized the barbecue of "witchery". The individual is not "mean" by itself, not even muslims as acebars tells. The masses are great for encouraging lots of people to do bad things. Wich religion is not a problem, the problem comes when lots of people decided over other that his religion is right and that the people who do not think like them has to be burned, bombed, killed, etc.

#174: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: US_Brake, Location: USA

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:57 pm
—
Very few humans knew that the earth was a sphere before modern times.

Among the ancient Greeks, Homer thought the world to be flat. In contrast, Pythagoras postulated that the earth was round. A century later, Aristotle sided with the theory of the roundness of the earth.
Leave it to the clever Greek investigator Eratosthenes to bring it all together with a calculation (and a remarkably accurate one!) about the diameter of the earth, and also the inclination of its axis of rotation to its orbital plane about the sun.

Centuries later, independent work was done by Muslims as Europe descended into the Dark Ages. By the 9th century, many Muslim scholars took it for granted that the Earth was a sphere. The proof, said astronomer Ibn Hazm, "is that the Sun is always vertical to a particular spot on Earth". It was 500 years before that realisation dawned on Galileo. The calculations of Muslim astronomers were so accurate that in the 9th century they reckoned the Earth's circumference to be 40,253.4km --less than 200 km out. Later Europeans mistakenly attribute the work for Nicolaus Copernicus.
Surah Naziat 79:30: Ali Unal :
"And after that He has spread out the earth in the egg-shape (for habitability)."

Surah Naziat 79:30: Rashad Khalifah:
"He (Allah) made the earth egg-shaped."

Surah Naziat 79:30: Syed Vickar Ahamed
"And more, He has extended the earth (far and wide also in the shape of an egg)."

Surah Naziat 79:30: QXP - Shabbir Ahmed:
"And after that He made the earth shoot out from the Cosmic Nebula and made it spread out egg-shaped. ('Dahaha' entails all the meanings rendered (21:30), (41:11))."

Surah Naziat 79:30: Yahiya Emerick:
"He shaped the earth as an egg after that."

In Medieval Europe, where there was little contact with the Muslim world, most except for the educated population thought the earth to be flat. What happened?

Seeing is believing

Humanity took a big step forward after WWII in science. The V2 rocket provided humans with the first (partial) view of earth from space from a rocket.

V2 Rocket provides view of earth from space

On August 23, 1966, just as Lunar Orbiter I was about to pass behind the moon, mission controllers executed an unplanned maneuver to point the camera away from the lunar surface and toward Earth. The result was the world's first (full) view of Earth from space. The photograph was called "the picture of the century."

I find it odd that God wasn't aware of the shape and age of his creation until much later when it was discovered by Humans using science and technology.

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#175: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: dj,

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:42 pm
—
Ah....no

Where do I start? There is a very large Church down the way from me which is famous in U.S. On paper they seem reasonable, not appearing to be a radical fundamentalist denomination. However the Pastor made headline news when it was discovered that he along with his staff supported a Dictatorship in Africa that openly advocated State-sanctioned Murder of Gays. The Pastor came-up with all sorts of creative justifications but in the end there was proof he along with his Political allies provided support, met in face-to-face meetings and even encouraged this type of Gestapo-like policy.

Yes the militant Islams are known to pitch radical beliefs. Are these fundamentalists any different than many of the radical fundamentalist "Christian" groups in the West? I don't think so. We even call these radical Right-Wing groups that advocate violence towards Gays or even Liberals the American Talibans. Make no mistake there is a huge contingent of these groups...I call them Cults...that are virtually the same as the Radical Muslim groups. How dare they even call themselves Christians...they don't deserve that honor. Or what about the Nuts that show-up at our own Military funerals with signs stating Soldiers deserve to die because we have Gays in our country? Make no mistake we have plenty of our own Fruit Loop pyschopath's in the West that masquerade as religious groups.

I personally can care less about a person's religious, political views or especially their Sexual beliefs. All these issues are Wedge topics used to indoctrinate people and justify political support or agendas of Hate. Actual both the Left and Right wings are obsessed over these issues. Nobody cares. Most people just want to be left alone and not have the Govt dictate what we have to believe or what we want to do as individuals.

acebars wrote (View Post):

Christian or other religions are nothing compared to the agro Muslims.

Its not a religion its a cult, if there was a God do you really think he'd tell one guy to try to subdue the whole world with fire and sword (same guy also happens to be a polygamous paedo).

Islam is hateful, aggressive, anti-semitic and homophobic, the worst of the other religions has nothing on it. Try a heated discussion with them, they will promise to behead you!

#176: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:02 pm
—
Very intresting DJ.

The Bible:

i) Leviticus 20:13: "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."

ii) Romans 1:24-32: "Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other.
Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. ”

Hm, would have to be a sorcerer to make something benign out of that bible text.
On the other hand, if one is a sorcerer one would face the bible god’s hate to:

Exodus 22:18 “Thou shalt not suffer a sorceress to live.”

Pitty the people who fallen victims to God and his Bible massages.
The victims makes a mighty pile, some 30 000 was burned for being witches alone..

The Bible God's gay victims are still beeing piled up ..

#177: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: US_Brake, Location: USA

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:21 am
—
God isn't a fact. God is a symbol. As soon as you interpret God as a fact, you enter darkness.

#178: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:56 am
—
I find it odd that God wasn't aware of the shape and age of his creation until much later when it was discovered by Humans using science and technology.

US Brake

No offense, but I am hoping you are going to share some additional sources to back up the main elements of this quote. I would like to see them, if you have something. It just makes me wonder

If God did create the Earth, I am guessing God was very aware of its shape and age when it was created.

Do you have tangible evidence of the initial shape of the Earth when it was created? By that I mean pics, video, first hand accounts and testimony presumably by someone NOT FROM Earth. You know, something a little more concrete than a vague hypothisis.

You also presume HUMANS discovered the shape and age of Earth. If you meant "first discovered" then what proof do you have of that? Shocked

At what point did Humans begin to use science and technology. Just wondering?

#179: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:18 am
—
"By the 9th century, many Muslim scholars took it for granted that the Earth was a sphere."
US Brake

Surah Naziat 79:30: Rashad Khalifah:
"He (Allah) made the earth egg-shaped."

Surah Naziat 79:30: Syed Vickar Ahamed
"And more, He has extended the earth (far and wide also in the shape of an egg)."

Surah Naziat 79:30: QXP - Shabbir Ahmed:
"And after that He made the earth shoot out from the Cosmic Nebula and made it spread out egg-shaped. ('Dahaha' entails all the meanings rendered (21:30), (41:11))."

Surah Naziat 79:30: Yahiya Emerick:
"He shaped the earth as an egg after that."

The Earth is not quite spherical, due to what is know as "rotational flattening." It's not egg-shaped, either, it's shaped more like a pumpkin. The radius of the Earth at the equator is 6,378 km; at the poles it is 6,356 km. Jupiter, which rotates once every 10 hours, is even much squashed than the Earth. Jupiter's equatorial radius is 70,850 km; it's polar radius is 66,550 km.
Richard A Gerber Idea

So just exactly what kind of eggs where these guys referring to?
Stwa Laughing

#180: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: davidssfx,

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:21 am
—

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Very intresting DJ.

The Bible:

i) Leviticus 20:13: "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."

ii) Romans 1:24-32: "Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other.
Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. ”

Hm, would have to be a sorcerer to make something benign out of that bible text.
On the other hand, if one is a sorcerer one would face the bible god’s hate to:

Exodus 22:18 “Thou shalt not suffer a sorceress to live.”

Pitty the people who fallen victims to God and his Bible massages.
The victims makes a mighty pile, some 30 000 was burned for being witches alone..

The Bible God's gay victims are still beeing piled up ..

decided to post again :)

John 8
1 but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.

2 At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

11 “No one, sir,” she said.

“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

#181: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:22 am
—
"Very few humans knew that the earth was a sphere before modern times."
US Brake

I assume you mean "educated humans". If not, then why are you wasting everyone's time?
Stwa

The misconception that educated Europeans at the time of Columbus believed in a flat Earth, and that his voyages refuted that belief, has been referred to as the "Myth of the Flat Earth".[6]

The myth of the Flat Earth is the modern misconception that the prevailing cosmological view during the Middle Ages saw the Earth as flat, instead of spherical.[1]

Wiki

Here are the links

Flat Earth Science
Myth of the Flat Earth

#182: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:40 am
—
"Humanity took a big step forward after WWII in science."
US Brake

Science Marches On

#183: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:07 pm
—

davidssfx wrote (View Post):

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

i) Leviticus 20:13: "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."

ii) Romans 1:24-32: "Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other.
Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. ”

As I said David, you need to be a sorcerer to make something benign out of the Bible gay hate text. So, lets hope you did not succeed, or you would draw Gods hate on your self. U know, he hates sorcerers.. Wink

Lets see:

So, the woman had sinned…
Instead of stoning the woman as the bible suggest is appropriate for sinners, Jesus suggested that the sinner should be forgiven.
Now see, You must read it all:

John 8: “Jesus declared. Go now and leave your life of sin.”

He don’t say “go now and live your life in sin”… does he?
He say she should leave here life of sin and she be forgiven…

The bible God clearly say gay activity is a sin, punishable by death.

So, lets test your analogy and see if it is applicable on Gods gay hate..

1)IF a gay person leaves the gay life then the Jesus forgiving analogy would be applicable ..
Remember: “Jesus declared. Go now and leave your life of sin.” = A Gay person stops being gay, and he’s forgiven…

2)IF a gay person lives his life as a gay. And he don’t have any plan of stopping his gay life… Then how can you apply what Jesus said: “Jesus declared. Go now and leave your life of sin.”

So "fortunately" for you David, you failed here....

Just a question for you David. Don’t you think God is a grown up who can declare his gay morals/laws without you trying to put another meaning to what he thinks? Wink

Are you not afraid to anger him?

As many people who where burned by the church for being accuse of being witches, as many people was burned by the church for being accused of having sex with animals. … The church victims keep piling up.

Last edited by AT_Stalky on Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:43 pm; edited 4 times in total

#184: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: MajorFrank,

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:57 pm
—

dj wrote (View Post):

I personally can care less about a person's religious, political views or especially their Sexual beliefs. All these issues are Wedge topics used to indoctrinate people and justify political support or agendas of Hate. Actual both the Left and Right wings are obsessed over these issues. Nobody cares. Most people just want to be left alone and not have the Govt dictate what we have to believe or what we want to do as individuals.

I think that people should do more to fight the religion that is prevalent in their own region. We have arrived at this point in time from the past and unfortunately there are many institutions in our societies that are very outdated, mainly the religions. So far we haven't done away with these religions. It is time to do so, otherwise we will not develop as a society and as a species.

#185: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: southern_land,

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:51 am
—
John 8
1 but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.

2 At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

11 “No one, sir,” she said.

“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and LIVE your life of sin.”

one word mistranslated from ancient Aramayic and the whoe scene takes on a different hue

#186: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: davidssfx,

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:36 am
—

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

As I said David, you need to be a sorcerer to make something benign out of the Bible gay hate text. So, lets hope you did not succeed, or you would draw Gods hate on your self. U know, he hates sorcerers.. Wink

By posting John 8:1-11, I wasn't arguing that God doesn't hate sin, or that God doesn't punish sin ... I was only suggesting that there is more to the story Smile

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

He don’t say “go now and live your life in sin”… does he?
He say she should leave here life of sin and she be forgiven…

you were correct until you added these extra words ... "and she be forgiven…"

The woman being forgiven is not dependent on her leaving her life of sin.
Jesus said, “Then neither do I condemn you,”
This infers that Jesus forgives her and then offers advice to her that would be her best course of action ... that being to "leaving her life of sin"
If the woman decided to stop sinning (or sincerely made an effort to not sin) ... that would be the result of a changed heart (the innermost part, the commanding part).

the stream can't be sweet unless the spring is so

If she continued living a sinful life ... then she would require further forgiveness.
The problem though, of living a sinful life is ... it can be systemic, self perpetuating, blinding. The Bible teaches that the wages of sin is death.

Romans 6:16 Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey--whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?

A person could dispute the effects of gravity, but if you jump out of an airplane without a parachute ... you may regret that decision (or not be able to).

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Are you not afraid to anger him?

yes

#187: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: davidssfx,

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:56 am
—

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

We have arrived at this point in time from the past and unfortunately there are many institutions in our societies that are very outdated, mainly the religions. So far we haven't done away with these religions. It is time to do so, otherwise we will not develop as a society and as a species.

Perhaps you should read "The Gulag Archipelago" by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn ... there are some interesting insights about how humans behave in conditions you claim to desire Smile

And it all happened less than a hundred years ago!

#188: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:18 am
—

davidssfx wrote (View Post):

The woman being forgiven is not dependent on her leaving her life of sin. Jesus said, “Then neither do I condemn you,”

davidssfx wrote (View Post):

you were correct until you added these extra words ... "and she be forgiven…"

Defenition of Condem:
to express an unfavorable or adverse judgment on; indicate strong disapproval of; censure.
to pronounce to be guilty; sentence to punishment: to condemn a murderer to life imprisonment.
to give grounds or reason for convicting or censuring: His acts condemn him.
to judge or pronounce to be unfit for use or service: to condemn an old building.
U.S. Law . to acquire ownership of for a public purpose, under the right of eminent domain: The city condemned the property.
to force into a specific state or activity: His lack of education condemned him to a life of menial jobs.

Definition of Forgive:
Synonyms: condone, forgive, pardon, excuse,
These verbs mean to refrain from imposing punishment on an offender or demanding satisfaction for an offense. The first three can be used as conventional ways of offering apology. More strictly, to forgive is to grant pardon without harboring resentment: "Children begin by loving their parents; as they grow older they judge them; sometimes they forgive them" (Oscar Wilde).
Pardon more strongly implies release from the liability for or penalty entailed by an offense: After the revolution all political prisoners were pardoned.
To excuse is to pass over a mistake or fault without demanding punishment or redress: "There are some acts of injustice which no national interest can excuse" (J.A. Froude).
To condone is to overlook an offense, usually a serious one, and often suggests tacit forgiveness: Failure to protest the policy may imply a willingness to condone it.

So when Jesus said “Then neither do I condemn you,” he implicitly said the “extra words” that I added, as in: “she be forgiven”………………………

davidssfx wrote (View Post):

If she continued living a sinful life ... then she would require further forgiveness.

Ahhha, so she would require further FORGIVENESS… MMm…. So you actually understood the definition after all…

davidssfx wrote (View Post):

The problem though, of living a sinful life is ... it can be systemic, self perpetuating, blinding. The Bible teaches that the wages of sin is death.

Mmmm

Last edited by AT_Stalky on Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:57 pm; edited 6 times in total

#189: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: Blackstump, Location: Hunter Valley Australia

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:20 am
—
From memory the passage is "go and sin no more". At least in the King James version of the fable.
Of course the " let ye who is without sin cast the first stone" passage would infer that those who would, would have broken the law, as it wasnt Roman law that adultery was punishable by death.
So they would have been charged with murder, much as our laws are now, and thank god for that(excuse the pun).

#190: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:27 am
—
Thanx Blackstump.

You remember right, I just shecked it.

The litteral translation (Youngs Litteral Bible) is:

John 8: and she said, `No one, Sir;' and Jesus said to her, `Neither do I pass sentence on thee; be going on, and no more sin.'

#191: very amicable religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:17 am
—

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

remember, if you divorce, you go straight to hell!

Even without passing GO Question

OH NO

This must be hell here and now........

Because i am divorced Surprised

Where do you get such rubbish from MF?

Thats not in the Bible either...

Maybe thats your whole problem with Christianity, you believe all the falsehoods that are spread about Christianity.....

Methinks that you ODed on gullability Wink

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

I'll just leave these here.

Ta ta,

MF]

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

1st i am guessing that you think the 2nd image from the left is supposed to be Jesus Laughing

Well, i am VERY impressed that 7 million Californians realised that the image of Jesus having a european appearance is a myth Rolling Eyes

Of course Jesus did not have blue eyes and fair hair Wink

2ndly, if the far right image is supposed to be Satan, then that image is also mythical.

Satan would not be seen dead in a cheap suit like that, Lucifer only wears Gucci Wink

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

Well, thats sad that 2 million of my cousins will miss out on eternity Sad

The good news is that 3 million God fearing Scotts will enjoy an eternity of joy Very Happy

CHEERS

AGS

.

Last edited by ArmeeGruppeSud on Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:38 pm; edited 2 times in total

#192: Not so heated religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:33 am
—

dj wrote (View Post):

There is a very large Church down the way from me which is famous in U.S. On paper they seem reasonable, not appearing to be a radical fundamentalist denomination. However the Pastor made headline news when it was discovered that he along with his staff supported a Dictatorship in Africa that openly advocated State-sanctioned Murder of Gays. The Pastor came-up with all sorts of creative justifications but in the end there was proof he along with his Political allies provided support, met in face-to-face meetings and even encouraged this type of Gestapo-like policy.

Yes the militant Islams are known to pitch radical beliefs. Are these fundamentalists any different than many of the radical fundamentalist "Christian" groups in the West? I don't think so. We even call these radical Right-Wing groups that advocate violence towards Gays or even Liberals the American Talibans. Make no mistake there is a huge contingent of these groups...I call them Cults...that are virtually the same as the Radical Muslim groups. How dare they even call themselves Christians...they don't deserve that honor. Or what about the Nuts that show-up at our own Military funerals with signs stating Soldiers deserve to die because we have Gays in our country? Make no mistake we have plenty of our own Fruit Loop pyschopath's in the West that masquerade as religious groups.

Would that be the dreaded Westborro Baptist Church?

The Westborro Baptist Church preaches:
HATE, HATE, HATE & CONDEMNATION Mad

Unlike true Christianity which preaches:
LOVE, LOVE, LOVE & FORGIVENESS Very Happy

Pretty sure that God Hates the Westborro Baptist Church Wink

CHEERS

AGS

.

#193: religious study and discussion group Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:38 am
—

southern_land wrote (View Post):

John 8
1 but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.

2 At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

11 “No one, sir,” she said.

“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and LIVE your life of sin.”

one word mistranslated from ancient Aramayic and the whoe scene takes on a different hue

Blackstump wrote (View Post):

From memory the passage is "go and sin no more". At least in the King James version of the fable.
Of course the " let ye who is without sin cast the first stone" passage would infer that those who would, would have broken the law, as it wasnt Roman law that adultery was punishable by death.
So they would have been charged with murder, much as our laws are now, and thank god for that(excuse the pun).

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

The litteral translation (Youngs Litteral Bible) is:

John 8: and she said, `No one, Sir;' and Jesus said to her, `Neither do I pass sentence on thee; be going on, and no more sin.'

Well Praise GOD!!!! Very Happy

If nothing else, this thread has got you guys studying scripture, there's hope for you guys yet Very Happy

CHEERS

AGS

.

Last edited by ArmeeGruppeSud on Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:11 pm; edited 1 time in total

#194: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:52 am
—
Thanks AGS.

It’s an interesting thread, questions often dwelled over by middle age men like my self. 44+

#195: Re: Luke warm political/religious discussions Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:54 am
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MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

Hmmm, MF are you a Marxist or a Nazi?

You are against democratic freedom of speech and religion as you want to destroy them both just as the Nazis and Communists tried to.

It seems you must be one or the other as those 2 ideologies are ultimately the result of humanist thinking.

Your kind of thinking leads down the exact same road...............

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

It is time to do so, otherwise we will not develop as a society and as a species.

Humanist society is exactly what 1940s Nazi society was and is also what the Marxists aspired to.

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

It is time to do so, otherwise we will not develop as .. a species.

Yes, the Nazis wanted to perfect the human species by selective breeding and by exterminating the untermenschen.

Oh, yes, i think we have a match here ........

HEIL MF!! (M........ Fuhrer)

CHEERS

AGS

>

Last edited by ArmeeGruppeSud on Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:13 pm; edited 2 times in total

#196: Extremely congenial religious discussion Author: ArmeeGruppeSud,

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:41 pm
—

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

Since this thread has long since degenerated into a slugfest between 'religion' and 'non-religion'

Seems not

Despite your most ardent attempts to turn this thread into a: "slugfest", you have failed miserably Sad

You have used mockery, false accusations, strawman arguments and straight out insults, and all to no avail

The thread has regenerated into an intelectual discussion that is so amiable that it is verging on a utopian peacefullness Wink

Peace and Love to all CCers Very Happy

CHEERS

AGS

P.S.May the peace be restricted to all areas of your life outside yr PC, but may hostility be most furious within yr CC games .

#197: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: Fiestita, Location: Santa Fe

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:48 pm
—
Well maybe I'm so good and peaceful that I'm rare.

#198: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: davidssfx,

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:36 pm
—

The law referred to in this passage is the Law Moses commanded
"5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?"

The reason they brought this woman to Jesus was to try and trick Him in His words so that they could accuse Him.
"6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him." "

The reason for their attempt to accuse Jesus was probably due to:

Matthew 23
13 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. [14] [b]

15 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.

16 “Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gold of the temple is bound by that oath.’ 17 You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? 18 You also say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gift on the altar is bound by that oath.’ 19 You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 Therefore, anyone who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21 And anyone who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. 22 And anyone who swears by heaven swears by God’s throne and by the one who sits on it.

23 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24 You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

25 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26 Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.

27 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. 28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

29 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30 And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started!

33 “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35 And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation.

When Jesus said ... “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” ... he was challenging the woman's accusers to judge themselves with the same measure by which they judged the woman, that being the law of Moses (Ten Commandments, morale laws, social laws, etc).
When the accusers honestly evaluated themselves, they found themselves guilty of sin... and therefore could not cast a stone at her.

law of Moses info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Moses

Also, some info about what Jesus might have been writing in the ground:
http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/faq/ground.html

#199: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:57 am
—

Develope as a state and spicies that dont mix with having slaves and inhumane systems.. Thats what you mean, right.. Human behaves bad without the Christian Church seem to be your main driving point here David… Right?

Are you implying that the GULAG was a result of a state without Church? By the way, the Soviet state reinstated the Church during the war…Was the GULAG demolished when the church was reinstated? The GULAG continued until the deStalinization …
So was Nikita a priest, I mean he demolished the GULAG system!
Did you know that Stalin amongst many others of the leading figures in the Soviet state was in the GULAGS them selves? When the revolution started in 1917, Stalin was in the GULAGS as a prisoner, but they was not run by the Stalinists at that time...
So there from came the GULAG systems.
To sum this up: The GULAG was created by a christan Tsar with a powerfull Church and the GULAGS was demolished by an god-less Communist...
So your theory fails here David.

Lets test your theory a bit further just to be sure,
If there’s a church there should not be any repressive regimes that are making slaves of the population… Right…

Hm, should we go back to the church after the Roman empire fall, and the middle ages? The priest did either rule directly or they were allied with the rulers by that time. Slaves was ok, the whole society was feudal in nature. Yeh, it was called the “dark ages”…Btw did you know that the christian russian tsars alowed Sufdom, in 1825 more than half of the factory workers was propertys of the factory owners.. The Serfdom was alowerd up to 1860th and in some regions up to 1892... Did you know that the Christian Tsar and the church allowed surfdom in Georgia just 7 years before Stalin was born! !!!
It seems you theory fails here..

Lets move forward a bit, what about when the Spanish and Portuguese colonized the Americas? The states and rulers were very religious, the churches had grate power in them states. Yet the natives was turned into slaves in many regions by the Christian rulers.
So again your theory fails here to..

Lets see, lets move forward a bit and into the European sugar industry in the 1600-1800 th. It was run with slaves, and the death toll was horrific. The new slaves from Africa had a small chance of living even a year under these conditions.. So, how come? I mean, the countries that owned them slaves had a powerful church…
So your theory fails again.

Your own country, the USA… Allowed slaves less than 150 years ago.. Was there no church in USA? “In god we trust”… Tell me about the situation for the Africans-America people in the South of USA in, say the 1940 th… Or why not in the 1960 th..? That’s less than 50 years ago..
So your theory fails again…

Shall we look at the Christian Europeans and the Africans.. Lets take Belgian Congo as an example.
The Belgians was Christians. The King was Christian and the priests in Congo was Christians..
Between 3 millions (lower estimates) and up to 30 million (upper estimates) Africans was killed there during year 1885 – 1908 in Belgian Congo. Yes, they were slaves in all but name. See, here the Christian priests was instruments of the King, in there monasteries the priests formed young children who was kidnapped from there parents. The young were turned into terror instruments of the regime committing horrible acts on behalf of the Christian King. (Remember, Stalin was also “educated” by the priests… what did they do to him?) Look at these people, they all miss something… I leave it up to you to fined out what and how that happened and who did it and who created them who did it, and on whos behalf they did it, and at what scale. Open your eyes David..

So your theory fails yet again and again and..

Last edited by AT_Stalky on Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:26 am; edited 1 time in total

#200: