Anyone Interested in Collaborating on a New Mod?
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Close Combat Series -> Modding Workshop
#1: Anyone Interested in Collaborating on a New Mod? Author: GaryChildress,  PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:47 pm
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I would really like to see a mod using Hexs for the strategic map instead of all sorts of odd shapes. Also battlegroups would represent companies instead of regiments or battalions and the order of battle would be based on realistic OOBs. Unfortunately I just don't have the knowhow or talent to do it all myself. I know a little about modding CC and will definitely do as much as I am able but I really need help.  Sad

Are there any experienced modders or anyone else out there interested in collaborating on creating such a mod? The mod could be based on a WWII battle, a modern battle in Iraq or anything in between, I don't care. I just want to see a hex based map and more realistic battlegroups.

I'm up for debating what all would go into the mod, which CC installment to use, and what time period or battle to feature, the only real absolutes are the hex strategic map and the battlegroup size.

Please feel free to post here if you are interested in collaborating on such a mod.

Thank you for any interest.  Very Happy

FYI: Below is a pic of something like what I'm thinking about regarding a hex based strategic map: This particular picture features a hypothetical modern battle between two modern mechanized brigades:

#2: Re: Anyone Interested in Collaborating on a New Mod? Author: GaryChildress,  PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:10 am
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Here's another idea for the strategic map, using lakes as ways of creating choke points on the map. Maybe title the mod "East vs. West". The battle would be toatally fictional but it might be fun. Could maybe use vehicles from Modern Tactics to create a fictional intervention by the US into an OpFor country or something.

On the map below:

West is the attacker and East is the defender.

Green hexes are controlled by West.
Red hexes are controlled by East.
Yellow hexes are no man's land in between.
The double black lines across the rivers between the lakes would represent bridges.

Using the "Last Stand Arnhem" game engine East would be able to blow bridges.

Any thoughts?

Last edited by GaryChildress on Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:16 am; edited 1 time in total

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Strategic Map
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#3: Re: Anyone Interested in Collaborating on a New Mod? Author: GaryChildress,  PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:31 am
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Here's a possible strategy by West and counter moves by East.

EDIT: As West do you go for the straight route and hope East doesn't have time to blow the bridges or do you take the undefended bridge to the north as soon as possible?

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Starting disposition of East forces
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#4: Re: Anyone Interested in Collaborating on a New Mod? Author: southern_land,  PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:51 am
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What about something like this... blue representing no map ie water, green heavy forest?

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#5: Re: Anyone Interested in Collaborating on a New Mod? Author: GaryChildress,  PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:12 am
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Looks great! a few questions...

1. Where do you plan on getting the maps from. Are you using existing maps or making your own.

2. Which CC do you plan on using as a base for the mod. (My preference is CC:LSA)

3. Is there any way to incorporate more choke points (non-mapped hexes) into the mod to make it a little more strategically interesting?
#6: Re: Anyone Interested in Collaborating on a New Mod? Author: southern_land,  PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:04 am
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GaryChildress wrote (View Post):
Looks great! a few questions...

1. Where do you plan on getting the maps from. Are you using existing maps or making your own.

2. Which CC do you plan on using as a base for the mod. (My preference is CC:LSA)

3. Is there any way to incorporate more choke points (non-mapped hexes) into the mod to make it a little more strategically interesting?


#3 last.   Same map with black lines representing no access between hexs due to heavy forest (ok pretty rough but it give you the idea.

#2  Yeah I was thinking LSA... though really it is just one of a few test maps for a winter war conversion.  Some covered the whole Isthmus, this one scaled down to represent the battle for Viipuri... and given the scale of CC both in manpower per BG and time lines a battle for a single town is probably a better option

#1 there are enough cc3/cc4 maps that could be used as an interm with others created to fill in spots.   There is a utility in one of mafi's tools that will recode maps between various cC varients

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#7: Re: Anyone Interested in Collaborating on a New Mod? Author: Stwa,  PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:03 am
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Hi guys,

Here is an operational game that supports company sized units, and maps for hexes.  Arrow

You will get a much better strategic game (CC parlence), you just won't get a tactical game.  Idea
#8: Re: Anyone Interested in Collaborating on a New Mod? Author: DAK_Legion,  PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:42 am
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Modern Mod would be GREAT;)

My vote for IRAQ
#9: Re: Anyone Interested in Collaborating on a New Mod? Author: southern_land,  PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:31 am
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DAK_Legion wrote (View Post):
Modern Mod would be GREAT;)

My vote for IRAQ


nah redo RSR
#10: Re: Anyone Interested in Collaborating on a New Mod? Author: GaryChildress,  PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:06 pm
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The only problem with Iraq would be lack of choke points. There aren't many dense forests or lakes in Iraq. Basically the whole map would be wide open. Which brings up the question, which is better, having choke points on a map or having the map wide open for more maneuver?

OTOH using CC:LSA maps would provide more cover so that tanks aren't engaging each other from opposite ends of the map. Also there are blowable bridges in the LSA maps. LSA maps could be used in a modern warfare setting.
#11: Re: Anyone Interested in Collaborating on a New Mod? Author: AT_Stalky,  PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:18 pm
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Okay, some have asked for hex-based strat map to CC, so it's a cool initiative.

Making a stratmap and all that is some work… And time consuming..


Some reflections that comes to mind when looking at the hex strat map. These are my thoughts only, just ignore em if you guys don’t want some thought about its possible effects on the game play.

The hex based stratmap implies a more homogenus infrastructure in CC.
In CC- the terrains heterogeneity has been modelled by the shape of the regions in the conventional CC strat map.
1) The hex based strat map, should that not be incorporated with movement points for being effective, highway has less negative effect on movement points, and open map some more negative effects on movements points, and a forrest/swamp and bad in  infrastructure map should have most negative effect on the movement? The CC start map don’t have this type of movements point in its code, so this cant be moddeld?

2) And the possible largest down side of the hex based strat map, would be as illustrated in the attached images.
In a normal CC strat map most connections are allowing assault movements (left-> right or the general assault direction) with low possibilitys of conflict of movements, where one SIMULTANEOUS may cut of each others.
Looking at the brilliant GJS strat map, this is modelled very well. I have drawn some arrows to show what I mean (as my English is poor).
As seen, most connections would not cause conflicts for the assault/defence directions thus the fastest unit (tank and motorized units) will move into the enemy aria and thus not risk of being cut of and stalling the assault.
This makes it less likely to have the spearhead cut out of supply as the attack moves forward in the attack direction (left<->right in this case).
In the GJS map, there are indeed some arias that takes the hex shaped approach and the movementsthat it allows and problems that comes with that type of connections. Two such maps are Bayeux, and Benouville (as example). Those maps are thus key to GJS, as they have this shape, and they are really causing problem for the UK if the German commanded know what he’s doing.

Now, If we have a strat map that is all hex, that would mean that all maps are like Bayoux in GJS, and thus the problems for the assulter that comes with a “hub” map will be in all maps.
So I believe that the hex shaped stratmap will have a very very very large impact in the gameplay and the balance. The attacker will be constantly cut of, and stalled tipping the balance to the defender. Where he using slow and or bad units that all the sudden receives strength bonus through it ability to be used as effective cut of units. The motoriced assult units will lose its power as they are constantly cut of. The assaulter cant make relative "safe" movements that focus on keeping the motorized assault units in supply and combat effective.

Just my thoughts.. Nothing else.

/S

Last edited by AT_Stalky on Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:28 pm; edited 1 time in total

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#12: Re: Anyone Interested in Collaborating on a New Mod? Author: GaryChildress,  PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:01 pm
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This is a good point. I hadn't thought of that. One way out might be to give each side enough units to fill in behind the assulting units as they move up. Also, since LSA allows two friendly battlegroups to occupy the same hex one could be used to advance while one covers the flank/rear area. Would that work?
#13: Re: Anyone Interested in Collaborating on a New Mod? Author: AT_Stalky,  PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:16 pm
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Hi

See image attached please.
The hex marked “A” have 2 blue moving in.
Don’t really change anything. Well excet that now blue has 2 units cut at hex "A" instead of 1, so its worst..

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#14: Re: Anyone Interested in Collaborating on a New Mod? Author: Tejszd, Location: Canada PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:53 pm
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good comment/feedback Stalky
#15: Re: Anyone Interested in Collaborating on a New Mod? Author: AT_Stalky,  PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:02 pm
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Thanx TJ.

I realize that My time invested in feedback will be nothing compared to SL and GC invested time in doing those mods.

Would be cool seeing them mods.

/S
#16: Re: Anyone Interested in Collaborating on a New Mod? Author: GaryChildress,  PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:09 pm
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AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
Hi

See image attached please.
The hex marked “A” have 2 blue moving in.
Don’t really change anything. Well excet that now blue has 2 units cut at hex "A" instead of 1, so its worst..


Hmmm. Doesn't seem to be any acceptable solution. Perhaps a square based map would be better? With movement restricted so that units can only more up, down, right, left and NOT diagonally. Unfortunately, however, 4 avenues of movement seems sort of unrealistic.  Sad

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Square based map possibilities
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#17: Re: Anyone Interested in Collaborating on a New Mod? Author: Tejszd, Location: Canada PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:41 pm
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Have to agree that a hexagon is more realistic from a movement perspective. I think LSA and or the new game have mechanics to prevent the problem Stalky is talking about.

In LSA you can stalk BG's thus can attack out of a strat map location in 2 directions which was impossible in CC5.

In the new game they have added air/artillery interdiction that will hinder or prevent (not sure which yet) that might prevent an enemy BG from moving so you could attack in 1 direction and pin an enemy BG in the other to stop them from cutting your supply line.

The only other thing to keep in mind is that a BG can for a few turns fight cut off so as long as you more BG's coming (as the attacker usually has more BG's) to clear lines of supply....

Last edited by Tejszd on Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:13 am; edited 1 time in total
#18: Re: Anyone Interested in Collaborating on a New Mod? Author: AT_Stalky,  PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:48 pm
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Tejszd wrote (View Post):
In LSA you can stalk BG's thus can attack our of a strat map location in 2 directions which was impossible in CC5.

Okay IC

Dont have LSA.
Thanx for describing that mecanics. Thats a cool feature. Good point TJ.
#19: Re: Anyone Interested in Collaborating on a New Mod? Author: AT_Stalky,  PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:37 pm
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Hi again GC.

I dont know if the 8 connection is more realistic.
Probley few places on this planet that applys to that.

I have made an image, with some infrastructure and hindrance. And then an image how then connections would be transformed into maps and shapes in a regular CC strat map. Very simplified and schematic (I know) but still perhaps better than my English.

That’s just my thoughts though.

/Stalk

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#20: Re: Anyone Interested in Collaborating on a New Mod? Author: southern_land,  PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:19 pm
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I made a test strat lie that Stalky but must have chucked it away during a periodic clean up.  back when they were talking about a Div vz Div modfound a aerial of a river crossing in Poland, divivded it into long and short rectangles, big and small squares.  Obviously smaller sqhares for urban areas, long for roads with several maps adjoining the long sides etc.    It made a lot of sense for a battle with 2 divisions meeting over a 4-5 square kilometres
Close Combat Series -> Modding Workshop


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