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Close Combat Series -> Close Combat 4: Battle Of The Bulge

#1: cc4 - an outcast? Author: zoober,

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:23 pm
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Just being curious - why out of 5 CC games this one seems to be much less popular among both modders and players?

#2: Re: cc4 - an outcast? Author: papa_whisky,

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:48 pm
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The AI was seriously screwed up in this one moving from CCIII, many of those problems were sorted in CCV. CCIV and CCV are similar, but CCV is better so CCIV became a sideshow.

#3: Re: cc4 - an outcast? Author: Stwa,

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:46 pm
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I agree and the CC5 campaign game used a different approach to force pools. The CC4 game more or less tied the force pools to historical results of the actual campaign, where CC5 gives you a starting force pool (presumed historical) and then this is drawn upon for the balance of the game going forward.

Plus the Armerican vehicles, looked nicer in CC5.

However, some people believe (perhaps correctly) that CC4 was the last truely debugged game, where the campaign functions as designed.

#4: Re: cc4 - an outcast? Author: US_Brake, Location: USA

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:04 pm
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When CCIV was originally released most were playing CC3. CCIV dropped key features of CC3 like the scenario editor (to make custom h2h battles). Dropping the scenario editor was an unthinkable blunder to those players like myself who enjoyed h2h battles on player made scenarios.

Some CC3 players took the CCIV maps and used them on CC3 as well as CCV maps when V was released. Yes.... ignored the games.... but took the maps that could work with CC3.

#5: Re: cc4 - an outcast? Author: southern_land,

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:16 am
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CC4 id the hunch backed, ginga haired, slightly retarded, cleft paletted, whiny voiced, short sightly- goggle eyed runt of the CC litter

#6: Re: cc4 - an outcast? Author: Aetius,

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:11 am
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And yet with TT's VetBoB best mod Vs AI i've ever played.

#7: Re: cc4 - an outcast? Author: pvt_Grunt, Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:22 am
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It is pure CC3 snobery that CC4 did not get a proper run.
The Strat map, the force pools, the time / date format are all normal CC factors now, but were new in CC4 and a lot of players didnt like them.
It was a huge change in the game, maybe the biggest change of all - argument accepted flame on................

#8: Re: cc4 - an outcast? Author: zoober,

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:14 pm
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Aetius wrote (View Post):

And yet with TT's VetBoB best mod Vs AI i've ever played.

Yeah, exactly:) Actually after playing this mod I couldn't quite understand the modders and players aversion to CC4. Afaik, Kreta mod is also really good (haven't played it yet).

And that just was bothering me why there are hardly no mods for CC4 and so many for CC5? I'm not sure but it seems to me that CC5 wasn't any better than CC4 back in the days. Regarding AI being screwed up - I'd say that CC4 has even better AI than CC5 (with TT's mod it's much better for sure).

I don't know but maybe pvt_Grunt is right that just most people didn't like those new features of CC4?

Btw, could anyone tell me what happened to TT? It looks like he disappeared after releasing VetBoB and didn't comeback for CC5.

#9: Re: cc4 - an outcast? Author: Sapa,

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:45 pm
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Because there were no tools to change the stratmap? ;)

TT went back to another "thing" he is great on ;)

http://www.haugskott.com/

/Mats

#10: Re: cc4 - an outcast? Author: Stwa,

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:49 pm
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If you mean that expanded pixelated strat map in the CC4 on CC5 mod, then I have wondered for years why someone couldn't find the time to at least repaint it. Idea

#11: Re: cc4 - an outcast? Author: Sapa,

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:54 pm
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Thats true but if i recalls right it was difficult to change stratmap areas?...thats why Winter War for CC4 kept the orginal stratlayer but with new graphics..

but maybe i recalls wrong.. Question

#12: Re: cc4 - an outcast? Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:18 pm
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Stwa wrote (View Post):

If you mean that expanded pixelated strat map in the CC4 on CC5 mod, then I have wondered for years why someone couldn't find the time to at least repaint it. Idea

There is a new strat map for WAR as an addon here:

CC4 strat map

Platoon_Michael has it in that new version of the Vetmod that is still not stable for WAR.

It would be nice to see the stratmap updated by some adventurous soul for CC4/5 as well one day as well.

#13: Re: cc4 - an outcast? Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:50 pm
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The lack of a good scenario editor,fixed force pools and the inability to just drop in maps like in CCIII was not very well accepted by CC fans.
I think it was only a year later CCV came out with force pools that allowed the user to choose his own forces.
CCV also had a tool that would help create new strategic maps.

No one thought a new strategic map could be created in CCIV.
You can now put any Mod you wish in CCIV if your willing to put in the work.
CCIV IS the most stable compared to CCV which has many bugs and some even crash the game to your desktop.

You do have TT's VETBoB,Aetius's Kreta and Winter War by Moloch & Luer for Mods to choose from.
There's also a TrueGreen Mod but it's still a Bulge Mod.

CCIV strat map how to.

#14: Re: cc4 - an outcast? Author: zoober,

Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 3:02 pm
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@johnsilver
Will that updated WaR strat map work in CC4 and vetBoB ?

@platoon_michael
How difficult would it be to convert let's say SDK to CC4 ? And btw, is this gonna be a full conversion or it's not possible because of some limits of CC4 and/or differences between CC4 and CC5 ?

EDIT:
Are CC4 maps the same size as CC5 ?

#15: Re: cc4 - an outcast? Author: southern_land,

Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:29 pm
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smaller

#16: Re: cc4 - an outcast? Author: zoober,

Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:43 pm
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Meaning they're 2880 x 2880px like CC3 maps then?

#17: Re: cc4 - an outcast? Author: southern_land,

Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:37 pm
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can't remember offhand, somewhere between the two I think max for cc5 is 3720pixels

but did a search and found this... http://home.wanadoo.nl/cclinks/cc3.html woow blast from the past

#18: Re: cc4 - an outcast? Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:25 am
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It will require a lot of hours/days.
But it isn't that bad.
You already have everything you need,you just need to convert it to CCIV.
The Strategic Map is gonna be the hardest as you'll have to re-size the SDK one a LOT in order to fit for CCIV.
Be best to check Mafi's site for the latest tools but it looks to be no more.
I hope someone here saved them?

You'll need.

GedgetMunger
5CC
RTBTool
StratEdit Tool
And probably want QClone

#19: Re: cc4 - an outcast? Author: zoober,

Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:23 am
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Thanks platoon_michael for that. a lot of hours/days doesn't sound that bad actually but I'm afraid that it would be more like weeks/months for a total noob like me:( Apart from all those tools you mentioned (that I'm not familiar with at all) I will need lots of info more than anything else. I'm not sure if I'm able to learn all these stuff:/

EDIT:
My main concern I guess would be maps and the fact that they would need to be shrink:( Larger maps is a big advantage of CC5.

#20: Re: cc4 - an outcast? Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:18 am
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Months/Months is more likely correct but I didn't want to scare you off.

One of Mafi's tools will shrink maps and I recall it wasn't that hard to do.
A Boom,Boom,Boom-And a done,done,done.
If I recall correctly?

I have no idea what johnsilver is talking about for a new strat map for WAR,I haven't worked on that yet.
I did a down and dirty one for CCIV.(It was ok,sloppy but ok)
It crashed the game but I figured out why and it's all in the readme Aetius and I did that I posted earlier.

All the tools listed come with readme files on how to use them.

Learning curve?......Yes

But what else have you got to do? :)

It's nice to see another fan of CCIV.

Close Combat Series -> Close Combat 4: Battle Of The Bulge

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