GJS-LSA grand campaign test
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Close Combat Series -> H2H Multiplayer
#21: Re: wrap up of am June 6 Author: Cathartes,  PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:29 pm
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Below is the result of the morning's fighting up and down Gold, Juno, Sword and along the Orne Bridgehead.  I have taken three full maps and I will likely take all the others by the afternoon turn. However, the Germans can now freely move their regular BGs, and more strong BGs begin appearing. I know that KG Meyer shows up in the Gold Beach area, and this strong BG could cause trouble if my opponent wants to play aggressive.

I drafted my older step son into this test campaign, you can go to the Matrix/LSA/AAR forum and check out the German perspective. I told him I would not look.  His Matrix name is "Monty Returns" (funny for a German player). To make things interesting and motivational for him, I've offered him $100 if he can take back any beach map, but he also has to keep an AAR going until then.

Considering the short battle length (15 minutes) I've done ok. I've been more careless than I would otherwise have been with a seasoned opponent, and I've held back in a few instances. If the battle length was 20 minutes I would have certainly secured more exit VLs leading beyond the beaches, and I probably would have taken a couple more maps. In GJS for LSA I believe 15-20 minutes is a good battle length with FM off.

If force morale was "ON" I may have achieved more on some maps, but I think I would have lost Gold Beach entirely due to force morale collapse (unlucky loss of 4 tanks). Yet, I would have played things differntly.

As far as bugs, so far, so good. I've caught a few oversights and mistakes in the modding process, all no big deal. Fingers are crossed.

Our goal is to get to the June 9 turn. This should get us far enough to catch any glaring bugs, and make sure the GC is set up properly. If there are no major bugs by the June 9 turn, I will pack this up and release GJS for LSA.

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#22: Re: GJS-LSA grand campaign test Author: Pzt_Kanov, Location: México PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:47 pm
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Wish you good luck Cathartes.

Have Fun!
#23: Re: GJS-LSA grand campaign test Author: Tejszd, Location: Canada PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:49 pm
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Appreciate the AAR and the over all mod plan/update!
#24: Re: GJS-LSA grand campaign test Author: Antony_nz,  PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:53 pm
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Cool you are playing your step son.
Do you have a link for his AAR report?
#25: Re: GJS-LSA grand campaign test Author: tigercub, Location: charters towers PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:35 am
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Cathartes

what numbers of tanks /AFV do u have on both sides around the same as the old GJS...

thx for the AAR by the way!

Tigercub
#26: Re: GJS-LSA grand campaign test Author: tigercub, Location: charters towers PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:21 am
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Antony_nz

thats the link for the AAR

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3253894
#27: Re: GJS-LSA grand campaign test Author: Cathartes,  PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:13 pm
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tigercub wrote (View Post):
Cathartes

what numbers of tanks /AFV do u have on both sides around the same as the old GJS...

thx for the AAR by the way!

Tigercub


AFVs ratios are roughly the same as previously, but there are more overall. This will allow a protracted defense by the Germans (who are outnumbered by Allied BGs)  It will not be as easy to use as many tanks as in 4.4 due to the way that LSA functions.  Massing tanks will depend on stacking battlegroups and having plenty of BG points.  

Below is the planned afternoon breakout from Courselles:

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#28: Re: GJS-LSA grand campaign test Author: diggin.robat, Location: Land of the krauts PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:29 pm
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Very interesting AAR, Cathartes! Thanks for this insight.

BTW: Out of my experience with TLD (w/ Grnd Tactic 2.0), HtH with Ronson, some time ago, I thought about editing the Panzerfaust to crewed weapon, so that it won´t get so easily lost by a german unit under fire. In the entire GC in HtH, my germans only took out 2 tanks with very few near misses, as the Panzerfaust soldier seems to get lost quite quickly under fire, reducing AT capability of a unit to nearly zero. In the end Ronson wasn´t much ennoyed by them in street fighting, buggying around with his Shermies all the time... ;)

I never managed to test it myself, but with the quite small number of Panzerfaust in TLD-GT2.0 it seemed to me to be fair to increase the usage of it a bit more by making it crewed.
What do you think about that?

Anyway, looking forward to your mod!

diggin
#29: Re: GJS-LSA grand campaign test Author: Cathartes,  PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:54 pm
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diggin.robat wrote (View Post):


BTW: Out of my experience with TLD (w/ Grnd Tactic 2.0), HtH with Ronson, some time ago, I thought about editing the Panzerfaust to crewed weapon, so that it won´t get so easily lost by a german unit under fire. In the entire GC in HtH, my germans only took out 2 tanks with very few near misses, as the Panzerfaust soldier seems to get lost quite quickly under fire, reducing AT capability of a unit to nearly zero. In the end Ronson wasn´t much ennoyed by them in street fighting, buggying around with his Shermies all the time... ;)

I never managed to test it myself, but with the quite small number of Panzerfaust in TLD-GT2.0 it seemed to me to be fair to increase the usage of it a bit more by making it crewed.
What do you think about that?

diggin


Interesting idea to crew the panzerfaust, but then I wonder if the soldier will be as effective vs infantry?  At any rate, soldiers under fire, it seems, should lose weapons, get suppressed, and have a much harder time firing--especially against a tank. That being said, it's quite easy to hide in buildings in GJS-LSA, and it's more difficult to accurately target infantry in buildings. I just had an Ost commander take out a valuable command DD Sherman with a Granatbüchse39 (only way possible I figured). Range was nearly point blank. I suppose that this weapon, firing down from a second story bldg onto the thinner top armor did the trick. The Zug commander must have picked it up from a dead comrade in the building. Monty told me he got the medal and the kill credit, and the Zugfuhrer Ost commander and his team were under fire in a building at the time. So, my long point is--I can see that kills will be possible with hand-held AT weapons, even for teams under fire.

It's important to note that GJS-LSA is a different animal than tLD. You can drive a tank around and take ground, but it's a little harder to take VLs the way most BTDs are set up (beach maps excepted). Even if a tank can take a VL, it often will not be able to sit on top of it. An enemy infantry team might be able to sneak in and contest the VL.

Tanks just can't dominate as much as they used to. They remain formidable, but they are more prone to immobilization when driving through small hedgerows, among trees, and over stone fences, and if they try to push through tall walls--there's a high chance of throwing a track. They can't pass through big hedgerows at all. Armor will be sticking more to roads and open ground than in the past. GJS has its own custom elements, refined from LSA.

I don't think that the German player will be wanting of hand-held AT weapons. He will have enough to force the Allied player to be cautious with tanks, and to not move them ahead without infantry.
#30: Re: GJS-LSA grand campaign test Author: diggin.robat, Location: Land of the krauts PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:39 pm
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Thanks for this comprehensive answer, Carthates!
I understand, that GJS-LSA will be a much different beast and thanks to your work it seems to be more outweighted. Crewing the Panzerfaust would be just another option for finetuning then.
In TLD-GT2.0, the german teams mostly had only one Panzerfaust, and it´s loss was quite a serious thing, when no other AT-Weapons were left.
Crewing them should have worked like LMG in teams. It was passed to next team member, if the original gunner died. Effectiveness against either INF or VEC is still controlled in another (don´t know exactly which) coloumn in the weapons.txt. But, as I said, I never tried it, but from my modding memories, it should work.
#31: Re: GJS-LSA grand campaign test Author: Cathartes,  PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:18 am
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Quote:
In TLD-GT2.0, the german teams mostly had only one Panzerfaust, and it´s loss was quite a serious thing, when no other AT-Weapons were left.


There are a few extra here and there:

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#32: Re: GJS-LSA grand campaign test Author: diggin.robat, Location: Land of the krauts PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:26 am
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Hmm, that looks good! hehehe
#33: Port en Bessin Author: Cathartes,  PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:19 pm
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231 Bde moves to Port-en-Bessin, hoping to find the back door into Bayeux:

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#34: Re: Port en Bessin Author: Cathartes,  PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:33 pm
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Lost one command tank to enemy infantry action in town--this was quite a surprise during the battle. Despite the presence of two 88s, was able to just drive to the Bayeux exit VL. I am now free to move into Bayeux the next morning, a critical objective for the Allies. I may be temporarily out of supply until mop-up by a follow up BG in Port en Bessin. Fortunately, a 7th Armoured Div BG is available on June 7.

I think the only way the Germans can prevent the Allies from taking Bayeux is to move KG Meyer into the city, but this has to be weighed against ceding other maps beyond Gold.

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#35: Gold Beach, June 6 pm turn Author: Cathartes,  PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:51 pm
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Forgot to get a screen of the strat, but Monty moved KG Meyer into attack Gold Beach.  He is highly motivated to take back any beach map. This provides a good demonstration of what is and isn't possible. At this point it's a longshot for the Germans to drive the Allies off of any beach. Despite the fact that there are enough Stugs present in this BG, he can't muster more than 2-3 at a time (need points!). The Allies now have plenty of AT guns. I can play an effective defense against a potent German BG while my other BGs open up maps and routes inland.

This battle went to truce after a minute. One 17pdr took out two Stugs with two rounds.

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#36: Re: Gold Beach, June 6 pm turn Author: Cathartes,  PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:53 pm
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battle result:

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#37: Re: GJS-LSA grand campaign test Author: Cathartes,  PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:00 am
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Intermission:

Battlegroups/Forcepools
This is not GJS a la CC5. The LSA engine offers more interesting options when representing forcepools and battlegroups. Changes are profound. Static BGs offer a new and interesting way to represent elements of the 716. “Bodenständigen” Infanterie Division, and other scattered units. Static BGs are numerous and 1-2 maps deep along the coast, but they are weak. Germans will be hard-pressed to significantly delay the Allied onslaught, yet the Allied player will have to work for every map along the Normandy coastline. Game settings (force morale on or off) and skill will determine how successful the German player is at delaying his opponent. Full-strength German battlegroups on the map at the beginning of the campaign will be frozen for a turn simulating the surprise and confusion that plagued the German command from the earliest hours of June 6.

Both Allied and German players receive reinforcements somewhat parallel to historical availability. Most reinforcements are pre-determined by the forcepool and entrance of battlegroups.  Player-determined reinforcement is very limited and exists only for a handful of Allied battlegroups—notably the independent armoured brigades.  All battlegroups have a larger number of units in them then the original release of GJS.  The 6th Airborne Division battlegroups begin the campaign weak on the first night turn, but quickly gain strength in the following turns—regardless of their supply situation. Beach assault groups also quickly gain strength in the turns immediately following the morning of June 6. A few German battlegroups start out the early phase of the campaign weaker due to the rushed march to the front and the delayed arrival of support units.

Nearly every BG has some dimension of combined arms and an innate ability to properly defend or reasonably attack any map. The exceptions to this are the one-dimensional vehicle/tank heavy BGs of the Allied independent armoured brigades and Germany’s s.SS-Pz.Abt. 101. These Armoured BGs are best used in tandem with other supporting BGs, or they can be merged with weaker BGs.

All BGs have their strengths and weaknesses. These become more pronounced as battle fatigue, and attrition accumulate. Overall, there is much more flexibility in German BGs due to their desperate, defensive stance in Normandy, and their historical/doctrinal proclivity to counterattack and form kampfgruppes.

Now that BGs can be stacked and/or combined, there are more pathways to strategic success and frustration. Along with the more detailed turn resolution in the arrival of BGs (BGs can now arrive on individual turns within a day, and are not limited to the beginning of a day as in CC5), a player is offered a more realistic situation within the context of the first several days of the Normandy campaign.
#38: Re: GJS-LSA grand campaign test Author: Tejszd, Location: Canada PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:32 am
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Sounds good Cathartes! Did you take how to notes on what you learned so far????
#39: Re: GJS-LSA grand campaign test Author: kweniston, Location: Netherlands PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:41 pm
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Sounds/looks very good, looking so forward to playing this!
#40: Re: GJS-LSA grand campaign test Author: tigercub, Location: charters towers PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:00 am
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this weekend?....(Heads up i am not playing any CC because i am waiting for GJS and have not played now for 3 months)...its like drugs... or beer lao to me so i need it!

:P tigercub
Close Combat Series -> H2H Multiplayer


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