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Do incapacitations count as a soldier's kills?

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squadleader_id

Rep: 53.2
votes: 7


PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:47 am Post subject: Re: Is it worth buying with the new patch that came out? Reply with quote

^^^
Actually IIRC they were introduced in most TLD maps.
I haven't checked all the PitF maps...some of the PiTF maps do code small hedges at 0.5m elevation rise though...so Stalky's elements coding correction should play a bigger role in correcting LOS.
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platoon_michael

Rep: 47.6
votes: 25


PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:50 am Post subject: Re: Is it worth buying with the new patch that came out? Reply with quote

The Animation for your BG movement of the Strategic map is cool.
However the layout of the strategic map is not very desirable.
It just doesn't look like you'll have any chance playing as the Germans to be successful.

Google Roofs?
If that's correct It's just gotta stop.
They are horrible looking,too bright and just too clean.
Meuse which was the best looking Maps to hit CC at the time is experiencing the same issue with the new maps.

Map .
While I don't know what the size is in PiFT again they appear to be way to big to be enjoyable.
Add to that the zoomed in view and it leaves you guessing many times who/what/where is getting LOS.
And despite Meuse and VETBoB showing how nice it is to have Tree's on the .OVM's no one seemed to get that when creating the .OVM's for PiFT.

Explosions.
Yes there pretty.
After awhile it's just repetition and has no effect on game play.

Unit selections and unit Icons.
I find it to be confusing and no fun at all,probably due to me not being a true Grog and not willing to take the time to learn them.

Fog.
Big mistake.
It takes away everything the map maker did graphic wise.

Towing of AT_Guns.
While it is very cool to do the animation of them when turning is just horribly wrong.
The gun doesn't make a smooth transition,it just jumps.
Imagine a fixed hitch.
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pvt_Grunt

Rep: 98.5
votes: 5


PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:43 pm Post subject: Re: Is it worth buying with the new patch that came out? Reply with quote

I like the game a lot, it's still fun to play after almost 6 months.

However, the game does move further away from the classic CC3/CC5 style of unit selection. I like the new selection system, but if you want it to be like CC3 with your favorite units being used through-out the campaign you will be dissapointed.

The reality is, this is not "CC5 with the bugs fixed" , I think the game peaked with CC5 and since then it has moved further away with each release. This seems to have been a deliberate decision by the developers. I was expecting it to be different so I wasnt upset by the changes. Some work, like the new strat map - some dont, like the gun towing.

As for your question "Is it worth buying with the new patch that came out?" well, we can only give opinions of our own.
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chessmaster

Rep: 33.1


PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:19 am Post subject: Re: Is it worth buying with the new patch that came out? Reply with quote

thanks crackwise and kanov..  very detailed information and interesting

this feedback should reach the patch team, if someone knows somebody..

well anyway gonna continue play LSA with adjudant_kro.. i made an operation for h2h play to play with him, with all the good units, like tiger tanks and flametanks batalion for german.. if someone wants it let me know


Part of being a commander is knowing when to smile, make the troops happy
even if it is the last thing in the world you want to do
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chessmaster

Rep: 33.1


PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:52 am Post subject: Re: Is it worth buying with the new patch that came out? Reply with quote

ow and thanks everybody else 2, didnt read all the info, only later

yeah you right, grunt.. they are moving away from cc5.. maybe they are jealous on the modding community :p


Part of being a commander is knowing when to smile, make the troops happy
even if it is the last thing in the world you want to do
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Schmal_Turm

Rep: 60.4
votes: 1


PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:29 pm Post subject: Re: Is it worth buying with the new patch that came out? Reply with quote

I agree with pvt_Grunt, I am enjoying PitF ever since it first came out. One plus that I didn't see anyone mention is that it takes up to a minute or so until the enemy mortar rounds hit. (Now if they are your mortars then you need to consider where the enemy forces might be if they are advancing rapidly to at least slow them down.) That way the devastating effects of the mortars can be diminished to a degree as your forces can move out of the area before being hit. Since some have complained about the devastating effects of the mortars in other games, even going so far as to make them nearly ineffective against AT guns, I would think this would be a plus for you. (I have had games where I have used up the mortar rounds from two mortar units and still had a functioning enemy AT gun to deal with afterward. Just how far do you go get away from reality?) I have noticed that the AI mortars of PitF are extremely accurate with the majority of the rounds landing within the area of a standard size building totally obliterating the unit within. I have decided that is just the cost of war and at least I can depend of the mortars only hitting that area for a while so my other infantry units are relatively unharmed.

As far as some of the CC gamers complaining about this or that in PitF, at the risk of upsetting a few of you I have some things to say. As someone mentioned, these games are simulations. They are meant to be representations of the actual battles at best. From what I have read the Germans would have been in much worst shape, at least on the Western Front if the games were realistic. With the Allies having complete control of the air the Germans were not even able to get any planes up during most of the fighting. This is attested to by the devastation that the Germans experienced at the Falaise Pocket, for instance, where they had to move by night and then hide in the woods to escape the fighter/bombers, especially the Hawker Typhoons with rockets. So some room has to made to get a workable game where either player can win. When I win as the Germans I don't think that makes me any kind of a great armchair general or anything, only that I can make enough good judgments, with few mistakes, to do pretty well at the game.

Anyway, I really appreciate all the hard work that you modders do to make CC so much more than it ever would have been with the original games only.


"No plan ever survives first contact with the enemy." Moltke
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platoon_michael

Rep: 47.6
votes: 25


PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:37 pm Post subject: Re: Is it worth buying with the new patch that came out? Reply with quote

As much as I love WAR and with as much time I've spent playing editing,trying to edit and will probably still edit there is no way shape or form I couldn't produce a list of things I either have an opinion on,like,don't like,Or things that should be fixed.

I apply the same opinion to any of the re-releases or Mods I've played.

How anyone chooses to interpret those things is there problem.

Not mine.

Call me what ever you want,but you cant call me dishonest.
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Schmal_Turm

Rep: 60.4
votes: 1


PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: Is it worth buying with the new patch that came out? Reply with quote

Forgot to mention: When I use the mortars in CC I generally forget about them as I have many other things going on at the same time. So when I get back to the mortars I find that I have fired all of the rounds except for the last four or so that are left, and then it is like pulling wisdom teeth to get the unit to target those. In PitF since they fire a salvo of five or six I can, in effect, shoot and forget. Plus, since there is the remembering target feature so I can more quickly retarget the same spot if I need to. Since there is the delay when first applying fire I find that I need to target some positions at the start of the game round to cover likely sites for infantry at a bridgehead or some other important tactical feature.

Yeah, I agree that it would have been awesome if Matrix had decided to design a game for the Eastern Front but I am more than happy to have any of the games and I feel that the new games are still way better than the older ones.


"No plan ever survives first contact with the enemy." Moltke
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Pzt_Kanov

Rep: 14.2
votes: 9


PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:25 pm Post subject: Re: Is it worth buying with the new patch that came out? Reply with quote

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
Okay, regarding funny LOS...


I did that and it does makes a difference. Thanks!


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AT_Stalky

Rep: 27.4
votes: 10


PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: Is it worth buying with the new patch that came out? Reply with quote

Np Kanov, glad it helped.
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AT_Stalky

Rep: 27.4
votes: 10


PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:04 pm Post subject: Re: Is it worth buying with the new patch that came out? Reply with quote

As i said, I dont have PitF.

But looking through the elements file, makes me a bit “hmm”.

Someone said that the forest fights was also dodgy LOS,
If someone want to try it,  I suggest changing the line 95 to 98, column G, H, I, J to 15 – 20 – 20 – 20.  And also the same lines, but column K, L, M, N  from 150 up to 200. First fix will make it more playable and more realsitic protection vs small calibre, and the second make LOS more realistic.



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AT_Stalky

Rep: 27.4
votes: 10


PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:27 pm Post subject: Re: Is it worth buying with the new patch that came out? Reply with quote

Thanx for yer thoughts Schmal_Turm.




One thing about:
Schmal_Turm wrote (View Post):
I have noticed that the AI mortars of PitF are extremely accurate with the majority of the rounds landing within the area of a standard size building totally obliterating the unit within. .


Do you fined it realistic that an 81mm mortar has that effect on units in a house?

/S
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Bel8910

Rep: 80.7
votes: 5


PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:12 pm Post subject: Re: Is it worth buying with the new patch that came out? Reply with quote

I originally posted this under it's own thread; posting here as well.

Here is my two cents worth on PITF; but, it may only interest novices to the Close Combat community or experienced modders. I am using a 1-5 scale and will break it down into a few categories listing what I like/dislike about the game.   First, an obvious statement: I originally bought the game because I have every other game in the series (except the service specific games: CCAT and CC: Regmt).  

Graphics: 5 of 5.  The teams at Matrix/Siltherine really did a great job with the 3d graphics.  The burning vehicles, the obvious misses and not to mention the terrain!  The forests are so real I have lost a squad of men in them before and didn't know where I had lost them until they were ambushing/coming under fire!  Great job!  Fighting at night, fighting in the fog, all great ideas!  And I really like being able to mount not only my men, but my artillery as well- and I do it often!  But, what happened to the "dig in" order?

Originality: 2 of 5. Ok, this is definitely a subjective score.  Why did we re-visit Normandy (albeit further inland/later in the campaign)? What about North Africa/Sicily/Italy?  Imagine, an inexperienced American battle group going up against seasoned veterans...learning the trade of war...but with dynamic leaders like Patton.  Or how about the ever elusive Korean War?  Sherman's against T-34's...imagine the terrain possibilities: rocky hills, to snow covered plateaus to rice paddies!  This is my first disappointment with the game.

Mod-ability 1: 2.5. This is a split score: 2.5 for the game and 2.5 for me.  This goes mainly back to the awesome graphics. With some trial and error I have learned to work with the 32-bit graphics, but not always to my satisfaction.  So, the 2.5 goes to me for either not having the knowledge/skill/programs to work with 32-bit graphics.  

Mod-ability 2: I enjoy working with the new force pools/unit structures.  The attention to detail in building accurate TOEs is obvious and kudos to the M/S team for taking the time to figure it out!  I like working with the new data sheets and building new, accurate teams.  


My last disappointment with the game.  And again, a personal one.  I enjoy the CCMT series of games (Marines, Road to Baghdad, etc) and if the M/S team were to ever take CCMT and combine it with a strategic level game like CCV I don't think I would ever stop playing it!  One thing I liked about CCMT is the different team positions: Company Cmdr, XO, Plat Ldr, Plt Sgt, RTO, Squad Ldr, etc.   I realize that having a "BAR Auto Rifleman" will not change game play, but it was one of those realistic, detailed items I liked.  In WWII they still had PltLdrs, PltSgts, Co. XO's etc.  Why did the M/S team settle for the old "Leader, Assistant Leader, Basic, Sniper" positions instead of the 32 positions of CCMT?  

Also selection of teams is a somewhat disappointing, esp. in 1st/2nd Platoon since you have to select a full platoon (or % of depending on turn/strength, etc); although, 3rd Platoon is still individual selection.  On the other side of that, working with the FP/Unitstructures/AI&AXTeams you can manipulate this somewhat.

To wrap it up- I am glad I bought the game to add to my collection, to play and to give me something new to mod. Overall, taking the game as it stands, I give it a 4.0.  Great job Matrix/Silterine developers.  

Now when will you develop a game with modern equipment and strategic maps?  Things are heating up in North Korea...imagine an American Armored Brigade going against an artillery-heavy North Korean Motorized Division?!      Keep up the good work!
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Schmal_Turm

Rep: 60.4
votes: 1


PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:58 pm Post subject: Re: Is it worth buying with the new patch that came out? Reply with quote

Do you find it realistic that an 81mm mortar has that effect on units in a house? from AT_Stalky

Most definitely, NO! However, it is not enough to ruin the game. Just a little frustrating.


"No plan ever survives first contact with the enemy." Moltke
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Tejszd

Rep: 133.6
votes: 19


PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:40 am Post subject: Re: Is it worth buying with the new patch that came out? Reply with quote

Good find/tip on the elements hedgerow data AT_Stalky!

Edit: the leaves elements are probably okay or need to changed just slightly when looking at other elements (ex. interior doors/walls have a protection value of 3 while out wood building doors/walls have a protection value of 4). LSA/PiTF have some revised calculation/formulas that make older higher values from CC5 not usable.
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:38 am Post subject: Re: Is it worth buying with the new patch that came out? Reply with quote

chessmaster wrote (View Post):
hello dear friends,

is the game worth buying with the new patch?

and if so where can I buy it, small detail> I don t have paypal

thank you


Hehe, well we are three pages in, and I didn't check out every response, but I am wondering if there is a consensus yet.

It is funny, because this question.  Arrow is the game worth buying with the new patch? Seems to imply that the game is not worth buying without the patch.

So, I guess that would be my question.  Arrow Is the game not worth buying without the patch.   Question

Usually, after a CC game is released the forums are very turbulent for a period of time. That didn't happen with PitF. Wonder why.   Wink

Me thinks, one CC game is enough for moi. It's nothing personal with CC or Matrix. I have found I am that way with other titles too, where there is a series. I just never really wanted to get them all.
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:55 am Post subject: Re: Is it worth buying with the new patch that came out? Reply with quote

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
Okay, regarding funny LOS.

I looked in the elements file, and when it comes to small hedge, the AB row (line 117) is set to "0", it should be set to "1" to make los accumilate, and in the end block los. If its not set to "1" the elemnt never block los no matter how thick the hedge is, and how many rows of hedges there are.

Can anyone who have PitF test this. And see if it makes small hedges behave as u expect?

/Stalky


Perfect  Exclamation

So now platoon_michael knows what he has to do to the element file for WAR. After these adjustments, when the system deploys his AT guns in the woods, it wont be a big deal, because TREES wont block LOS, and the AT guns can blaze away.  Idea
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:45 am Post subject: Re: Is it worth buying with the new patch that came out? Reply with quote

Quote:
Also almost every German infantry team seems to have MG42. Maybe it is realistic, but I usually prefer the GJS seperation of teams such as: 3 men MG team, and 7 men inf team. It is easier to maneuver a light infantry team while an MG team provides suppression fire.

That separation came not from GJS but from vanilla CCs and while it is pretty much correct for the allies it is very wrong for the Germans.

The German infantry doctrine was based on LMG to kill opposition and not bayonet/grenade charge as most of the other countries had. A squad was not divided into Gun and Maneuvre parts but most of the squad members under 2ic had to defend LMG while NCO show targets to LMG. Thus LMG was integral part of a squad and while changing position was moving with a squad while other squad from platoon had to cover redeployment.

Squads that had 2 LMG were acting as fire teams when each FT cover each other during advance.
Red Army started to copy the German infantry tactics in late 1942, Commandos started to use FT tactics in 1944 as well as late war US squads having 2 BARs per squad.
Modern armies use FTs as well.

In CC it also works just well.
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Tejszd

Rep: 133.6
votes: 19


PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:22 pm Post subject: Re: Is it worth buying with the new patch that came out? Reply with quote

Stwa wrote (View Post):

Hehe, well we are three pages in, and I didn't check out every response, but I am wondering if there is a consensus yet.

It is funny, because this question.  Arrow is the game worth buying with the new patch? Seems to imply that the game is not worth buying without the patch.

So, I guess that would be my question.  Arrow Is the game not worth buying without the patch.   Question

Usually, after a CC game is released the forums are very turbulent for a period of time. That didn't happen with PitF. Wonder why.   Wink

Me thinks, one CC game is enough for moi. It's nothing personal with CC or Matrix. I have found I am that way with other titles too, where there is a series. I just never really wanted to get them all.


Like most Matrix releases the initial version has some bugs that require a patch or two to address which does seem to happen thus the purchase should be low risk of ending up being a broken game.

Other issues seems to be related to data and or graphics which will never please everyone as some people's desires conflicts with other people's desires. These items can be adjusted but some people do not think they should have to edit anything and waiting for mod makers will take a while or may never happen (the number of mod makers is dropping).
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AT_Stalky

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votes: 10


PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: Is it worth buying with the new patch that came out? Reply with quote

Tejszd wrote (View Post):
Like most Matrix releases the initial version has some bugs that require a patch or two to address which does seem to happen thus the purchase should be low risk of ending up being a broken game.


Mmm, Is what we are seeing some kind of discrimination only vs the Matrix Close Combat releases then? Or you mean.... what do you mean?

I dont see CCMT beeing better now than in 2007... I think PM post WaR issues at a regualar basis.. ? No?
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