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Pzt_Kanov

Rep: 14.2
votes: 9


PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:26 pm Post subject: Re: New Close Combat Reply with quote

GJS was intended for TLD first but then LSA offered a couple more features like stacking of BG's and static BG's.

Battle for Caen is in essence GJS for TLD I think. I haven't tried it yet but that is the impression I have, even if the data is completely different now it has its roots in the GJS mod for CC5.

And also, it is fun to be a cynic sometimes, I mean it's not like we are not telling truths and just complaining over nothing. I know the criticism is not going to end ever, you can't please everybody but at least you can minimize it. How nice would be if we were complaining just because of the color of the UI in CC games, or because the uniforms are the wrong shade of feldgrau instead of complaining about real errors and omissions.


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TheImperatorKnight

Rep: 30.4
votes: 1


PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:49 pm Post subject: Re: New Close Combat Reply with quote

Pzt_Kanov wrote (View Post):
How nice would be if we were complaining just because of the color of the UI in CC games, or because the uniforms are the wrong shade of feldgrau instead of complaining about real errors and omissions.


That would be a lot better than the way things are now. It's weird, but there's a part of this community that seems to complain when a new game is announced - as though they don't want another CC game to be made. And the irony is that they're probably right to complain! A new game will divide the community a little more because you'll have people who think that game's the best, and won't be able to agree with the rest.


I have a Close Combat Youtube Channel

My Small Maps Mod for Close Combat: Gateway to Caen. Install guide and discussion
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Tejszd

Rep: 133.6
votes: 19


PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:02 am Post subject: Re: New Close Combat Reply with quote

TLD for existing mod makers and mods is the heir to CC5 because of its better backwards compatibility with the previous king (CC5) and its better stability.

LSA for new mods could be an alternative with its list of new features over TLD as long as the last patch finally gets the new features working properly and hasn't introduced any instability. The downside is the learning curve for mod because of the break with old calculations/force pools/etc.

PiTF has some new features over LSA but you lose some things; 2 BG handling and direct H2H (if Matrix shutsdowns the server or goes broke like Atomic H2H will no longer work). The downside again is the learning curve to mod and the break with previous data/maps.
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:17 am Post subject: Re: New Close Combat Reply with quote

Battle for Caen is in essence GJS for TLD I think. -Kanov

Yep, they told me that one or twice already. I just keep forgetting.  Confused
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nikin

Rep: 15.7
votes: 8


PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:22 am Post subject: Re: New Close Combat Reply with quote

Pzt_Kanov wrote (View Post):
Battle for Caen is in essence GJS for TLD I think.
Wow. You mix greatest game with dirt. Chances are you're inexperienced, but do not do that anymore.
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Slyguy3129

Rep: 12.3


PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:21 am Post subject: Re: New Close Combat Reply with quote

The most depressing thing just happened.

I read a post on CCS about a CC game, and it was centered on graphics, and worse on 3D graphics.....

CC is dead, God save CC! Never thought I'd live to see the day the CC community would want 3D graphics. The top-down is CC, period. Like the gun barrell before the Bond movie(yes I know, they are twits, they should put it back). Cool with improving that, but I will not buy a non top down CC. It won't be CC, just something with its name slapped on to get money, ala the amazing FPS we got years ago.

And I didn't realize that the only Theater to see combat/action/War was Normandy. Marvelous.


"Why So Serious?!"
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pvt_Grunt

Rep: 98.5
votes: 5


PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:24 am Post subject: Re: New Close Combat Reply with quote

Normandy again? I've alredy fought through more hedgerows than the 4th infantry division!
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Pzt_Kanov

Rep: 14.2
votes: 9


PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:16 pm Post subject: Re: New Close Combat Reply with quote

nikin wrote (View Post):
Pzt_Kanov wrote (View Post):
Battle for Caen is in essence GJS for TLD I think.
Wow. You mix greatest game with dirt. Chances are you're inexperienced, but do not do that anymore.


You seem a little bit worked up, maybe we are getting lost in translation. I have some questions to clear this up:


Is it not true that Battle for Caen is based on TRSM, itself a sub-mod of GJS for CC5?

What is greatest game and what is dirt?

I'm inexperienced in a lot of things, can you specify in what thing you are judging me to be inexperienced?

And why are you telling other people to not do things?


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platoon_michael

Rep: 47.6
votes: 25


PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:07 pm Post subject: Re: New Close Combat Reply with quote

Focus on the Facts here ladies. :)

As a general caveat, The Bloody First is fairly early in development, and anything I say is 'the current plan' and may change before release.

Fair enough,I get that.

The Bloody First campaign is going to look more like CC3's campaign system

Does not say there will or will not be a strategic map,but if you look at CCIII there was no strategic map.
But based on what PiFT looks like I can't help but wonder why they scaled the strategic map back.
I.E.
from 64 maps to what 38 for PiFT?

-- in the single player grand campaign you will be carrying a force of the US 1st Infantry division through three campaigns: Tunisia, Sicily, and Normandy.

Does not say there is no H2H,how did one come to think H2H was going to be dropped?

Tunisia, Sicily, and Normandy.
Fair enough to say that the mere mentioning of Normandy makes any long time fan of the game want to Puke.

It will be more dynamic than CC3 though, as there will be triggers and decision points that will alter the 'flow' of an operation and campaign. Say your objective in an operation is to seize a hill, and you do it easily and quickly. This could trigger a counter-attack battle, or it could trigger a follow-on battle where you are pursuing the defeated enemy down a long road map. If you capture a given road junction you may get a choice of where to proceed from there, etc.


I have no comment on that as I would just have to see how/what he exactly means when the game is released.

Steve


No matter how many knee jerk reactions we have (my self included)
one things for sure...........Time will tell.

What do you like?
What does he like?
What do I like?
Doesn't matter,there gonna make what they want based on the same thing everything else in life is based on...What they and the new engine can and cant do and Time,Money.
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platoon_michael

Rep: 47.6
votes: 25


PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:39 pm Post subject: Re: New Close Combat Reply with quote

Not until stwa posted something about scale did I understand why I didn't like PiFT
And I cant even remember what it was he said.

That and I find it very difficult to find my troops under the Trees.

The dedicated server?
My first thought was,I hope this makes it easier to find players.
MSN was a dedicated server,we all thought that was cool.
2nd thought was,will it go the way of the dodo like msn did and then we have no way of playing.
3rd thought was they did to prevent piracy.
I never really used the direct connect method very much.
But based on what happened to MSN I can see why people were upset about losing the direct connect method.


I just always assumed they would make a game with a larger strategic map like WAR or tLD add digging in,troops boarding vehicles and 2on2 3on3 whatever H2H and maybe hopefully something like CCIIIMM or whatever it was called.

I would have bet my last $ that was the direction game would have gone.


I like what I like,nothing I can do about that.
You like what you like,nothing I can do about that either.


But I'm not buying a game that doesn't have a strategic map or Multiple BG's on a strategic map.
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Slyguy3129

Rep: 12.3


PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:02 pm Post subject: Re: New Close Combat Reply with quote

They are taking away the strategic map and adding 3d graphics?

This will kill the series, CC3 system worked because we had never had the map before. Now that we have it CC3/COI are nice little games, but nothing compared to CC4/5/WaR/TLD/LSA.

I think Matrix has finally milked CC for all the money they could make on it, now they are looking to cash in on just the name, which is apparently the only thing the new games will carry.

I want new CC games, I want a larger Strategic map, a viable AI, the END OF THE TAKING COVER CANCEL ORDER BULLSHIT (Absolute worst thing Matrix has done to the series), I want to fight somewhere other than Normandy (Afrika/Italy/Poland/France/Rus(though Rus would have to be a large game with multiple addons or w/e to add more GCs)), I want more of a variety of vehicles along with the upgrade refit option ala CC3/CoI rather than an automatic throw units around.

The next two games announced are absolutely nothing I want, why do Caen? We have GJS out the wazoo on multiple version of the new releases, plus TLD GC covers that area as well. If anything do the entire Op Overlord, from landing to breakout. Say from June 6-August something. If you absolutely have to be in Normandy again, do it that way.

And for the love of all that is good and mighty if they do in fact go to a "3D" engine ala CoH Combat Mission ect, I won't buy it, and it will be the death of the CC series. Anything from that point on will just be CC in name, and nothing else. I can't believe they would even think about it after the FPS CC in the early 2000s.


"Why So Serious?!"


Last edited by Slyguy3129 on Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mooxe

Rep: 221.1
votes: 25


PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: New Close Combat Reply with quote

Quote:
add digging in,troops boarding vehicles and 2on2 3on3 whatever H2H and maybe hopefully something like CCIIIMM or whatever it was called.

I would have bet my last $ that was the direction game would have gone.


I also assumed enhancing the H2H ability was what would happen since CC5 was completed.

We can all agree that CC is played primarily in single player mode. Maybe the reason for that is something to do with how multiplayer is implemented. Close Combat is such a mess now, so many versions with different features spread through all of them. Bugs that have been around for years. No real progression after 13 years.......


Join Discord for technical support and online games.
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platoon_michael

Rep: 47.6
votes: 25


PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:26 pm Post subject: Re: New Close Combat Reply with quote

I would spend $50/$60 maybe even go as high as $70 for an add on to WAR if it had 2on2 H2H,Digging in,Troops mounting vehicles,Towing of AT_Guns, Blown Bridges ,static and multiple BG's on one map for WAR any time of the day.

And be set for life.

I just always assumed that if one game can do it any of the others should be able to do it.
But I'm not a programmer.

But you'll be hard pressed to tell me it can't be done.
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nikin

Rep: 15.7
votes: 8


PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:20 pm Post subject: Re: New Close Combat Reply with quote

Pzt_Kanov wrote (View Post):
Is it not true that Battle for Caen is based on TRSM, itself a sub-mod of GJS for CC5?
And it allows you to equate the two? Conceptual differences between TRSM and GJS. Therefore, your statement shows incompetence in this matter.

Cheers, nikin
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Pzt_Kanov

Rep: 14.2
votes: 9


PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:38 pm Post subject: Re: New Close Combat Reply with quote

Agree, releasing a new separate game with one or two new things and sometimes taking away features does not sounds like the best course of action.

What they should have done in the first place is release WaR and then any subsequent iteration as an add-on campaign module for WaR improving the core game with every new addition. It saves work for the programmer too because he can focus on one game instead of five or six, it makes the price more affordable for us since we would have the base game already, better price means more consumers and more profit for the developers, they could even release small add-ons for vehicles, sounds etc at fair prices.

TLD and WAR are practically the same now, their file formats are clones I think, since I could play WaR Vetbob by platoon_michael and I don't remember modifying anything substantial. So it means it could be done.

In CC2 days everyone that played it knew what CC was, nowadays everyone has their own idea of what CC is and the guys with the least good ideas have the code, go figure.


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Pzt_Kanov

Rep: 14.2
votes: 9


PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:41 pm Post subject: Re: New Close Combat Reply with quote

nikin wrote (View Post):
Pzt_Kanov wrote (View Post):
Is it not true that Battle for Caen is based on TRSM, itself a sub-mod of GJS for CC5?
And it allows you to equate the two? Conceptual differences between TRSM and GJS. Therefore, your statement shows incompetence in this matter.

Cheers, nikin


I did not equate them. Re-read the post please.


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TheImperatorKnight

Rep: 30.4
votes: 1


PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:26 pm Post subject: Re: New Close Combat Reply with quote

Slyguy3129 wrote (View Post):
They are taking away the strategic map and adding 3d graphics?

This will kill the series, CC3 system worked because we had never had the map before. Now that we have it CC3/COI are nice little games, but nothing compared to CC4/5/WaR/TLD/LSA.


I don't think it would. Then again, I'm probably the only guy on these forums that doesn't like the current strategic map system. My preference is for a much more fluid system like they had in Achtung Panzer, or just doing it the way they did it in Panzer Corps (which didn't have a strat map, but did allow you to change the flow of the campaign).

Either way, we've had static strategic map and 2d graphics. Now it's time to move into the 21st millenium.

Slyguy3129 wrote:
And for the love of all that is good and mighty if they do in fact go to a "3D" engine ala CoH Combat Mission ect, I won't buy it, and it will be the death of the CC series. Anything from that point on will just be CC in name, and nothing else. I can't believe they would even think about it after the FPS CC in the early 2000s.


Again, the game needs updating. The reason few people play this game is because it's been out-performed by competitors. 3d graphics, better AI, better UI, more engaging gameplay etc...

platoon_michael wrote:
I just always assumed that if one game can do it any of the others should be able to do it.
But I'm not a programmer.


A big developer probably could do a lot of things - but Matrix/BlackHandStudios aren't big developers. They have to work on one or two things at a time. For example, PitF only really gave us 3d graphics and a new force pool system.

mooxe wrote:
Close Combat is such a mess now, so many versions with different features spread through all of them. Bugs that have been around for years. No real progression after 13 years.......


Exactly. Agree 100%.

This was my point a few posts back. We haven't seen the Series progress - that's why every one of us has a different CC game that's their favourite. Every CC game has its pros and cons - but none are truly "superior" to the others. It's preference as to which ones are better than others.

Whereas, we should be seeing a gradual improvement in the games. We should be able to say "CC3 was good back in the day, but the latest game is clearly superior", but you can't. You can't say any game in the Series is better than the others, because they're not. And that's proof that the Close Combat Series hasn't been improving. It's just remained pretty much the same as it was in the 90's.


I have a Close Combat Youtube Channel

My Small Maps Mod for Close Combat: Gateway to Caen. Install guide and discussion
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buuface

Rep: 56.4
votes: 1


PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:34 am Post subject: Re: New Close Combat Reply with quote

Battle for Caen (TLD) is based on GJS by the fact that it uses GJS original strategy map, many tactical maps and most unit graphics.

But all the data (v93) and the mod as a whole is more well refined in its current state more playable than GJS6.0.

GJS6xx has more potential imo because of the LSA engine features but is still in an early beta stage and currently NOT very well balanced for H2h
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Slyguy3129

Rep: 12.3


PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:08 pm Post subject: Re: New Close Combat Reply with quote

TheImperatorKnight wrote (View Post):
Slyguy3129 wrote (View Post):
They are taking away the strategic map and adding 3d graphics?

This will kill the series, CC3 system worked because we had never had the map before. Now that we have it CC3/COI are nice little games, but nothing compared to CC4/5/WaR/TLD/LSA.


I don't think it would. Then again, I'm probably the only guy on these forums that doesn't like the current strategic map system. My preference is for a much more fluid system like they had in Achtung Panzer, or just doing it the way they did it in Panzer Corps (which didn't have a strat map, but did allow you to change the flow of the campaign).

Either way, we've had static strategic map and 2d graphics. Now it's time to move into the 21st millenium.

Slyguy3129 wrote:
And for the love of all that is good and mighty if they do in fact go to a "3D" engine ala CoH Combat Mission ect, I won't buy it, and it will be the death of the CC series. Anything from that point on will just be CC in name, and nothing else. I can't believe they would even think about it after the FPS CC in the early 2000s.


Again, the game needs updating. The reason few people play this game is because it's been out-performed by competitors. 3d graphics, better AI, better UI, more engaging gameplay etc...

platoon_michael wrote:
I just always assumed that if one game can do it any of the others should be able to do it.
But I'm not a programmer.


A big developer probably could do a lot of things - but Matrix/BlackHandStudios aren't big developers. They have to work on one or two things at a time. For example, PitF only really gave us 3d graphics and a new force pool system.

mooxe wrote:
Close Combat is such a mess now, so many versions with different features spread through all of them. Bugs that have been around for years. No real progression after 13 years.......


Exactly. Agree 100%.

This was my point a few posts back. We haven't seen the Series progress - that's why every one of us has a different CC game that's their favourite. Every CC game has its pros and cons - but none are truly "superior" to the others. It's preference as to which ones are better than others.

Whereas, we should be seeing a gradual improvement in the games. We should be able to say "CC3 was good back in the day, but the latest game is clearly superior", but you can't. You can't say any game in the Series is better than the others, because they're not. And that's proof that the Close Combat Series hasn't been improving. It's just remained pretty much the same as it was in the 90's.


Yes, you are the only person to not like the biggest improvement to the series since selecting the troops you can take into battle, simple as that.

If you are picking up CC at any point in time ever, and I do mean ever, and you are expecting to be wowed by the graphics, you clearly do not know CC, nor would you be the type of people that CC appeals to. Saying they need better graphics is the same argument that console users use for their kiddy video games. Its why movies suck now, all graphics and no substance. You, and people who think like you, are going to ruin a game series that has stood for almost twenty years now. CC will be nothing more than CoD, all graphics and no substance, and it took a big leap in that direct with PiTF. It will continue to make leaps everytime someone suggest they should drop the Top-Down and go full 3-D. Lose that, and you lose CC. Period. It would kill the series, and I would much rather it died in Top-Down, than in 3-D bastardizing the name Close Combat.


"Why So Serious?!"
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TheImperatorKnight

Rep: 30.4
votes: 1


PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:41 am Post subject: Re: New Close Combat Reply with quote

Slyguy3129 wrote (View Post):
TheImperatorKnight wrote (View Post):
Slyguy3129 wrote (View Post):
They are taking away the strategic map and adding 3d graphics?

This will kill the series, CC3 system worked because we had never had the map before. Now that we have it CC3/COI are nice little games, but nothing compared to CC4/5/WaR/TLD/LSA.


I don't think it would. Then again, I'm probably the only guy on these forums that doesn't like the current strategic map system. My preference is for a much more fluid system like they had in Achtung Panzer, or just doing it the way they did it in Panzer Corps (which didn't have a strat map, but did allow you to change the flow of the campaign).

Either way, we've had static strategic map and 2d graphics. Now it's time to move into the 21st millenium.

Slyguy3129 wrote:
And for the love of all that is good and mighty if they do in fact go to a "3D" engine ala CoH Combat Mission ect, I won't buy it, and it will be the death of the CC series. Anything from that point on will just be CC in name, and nothing else. I can't believe they would even think about it after the FPS CC in the early 2000s.


Again, the game needs updating. The reason few people play this game is because it's been out-performed by competitors. 3d graphics, better AI, better UI, more engaging gameplay etc...

platoon_michael wrote:
I just always assumed that if one game can do it any of the others should be able to do it.
But I'm not a programmer.


A big developer probably could do a lot of things - but Matrix/BlackHandStudios aren't big developers. They have to work on one or two things at a time. For example, PitF only really gave us 3d graphics and a new force pool system.

mooxe wrote:
Close Combat is such a mess now, so many versions with different features spread through all of them. Bugs that have been around for years. No real progression after 13 years.......


Exactly. Agree 100%.

This was my point a few posts back. We haven't seen the Series progress - that's why every one of us has a different CC game that's their favourite. Every CC game has its pros and cons - but none are truly "superior" to the others. It's preference as to which ones are better than others.

Whereas, we should be seeing a gradual improvement in the games. We should be able to say "CC3 was good back in the day, but the latest game is clearly superior", but you can't. You can't say any game in the Series is better than the others, because they're not. And that's proof that the Close Combat Series hasn't been improving. It's just remained pretty much the same as it was in the 90's.


Yes, you are the only person to not like the biggest improvement to the series since selecting the troops you can take into battle, simple as that.

If you are picking up CC at any point in time ever, and I do mean ever, and you are expecting to be wowed by the graphics, you clearly do not know CC, nor would you be the type of people that CC appeals to. Saying they need better graphics is the same argument that console users use for their kiddy video games. Its why movies suck now, all graphics and no substance. You, and people who think like you, are going to ruin a game series that has stood for almost twenty years now. CC will be nothing more than CoD, all graphics and no substance, and it took a big leap in that direct with PiTF. It will continue to make leaps everytime someone suggest they should drop the Top-Down and go full 3-D. Lose that, and you lose CC. Period. It would kill the series, and I would much rather it died in Top-Down, than in 3-D bastardizing the name Close Combat.


But, the danger is, if CC doesn't change with the times, it will die. I'd rather see the CC series continue than have it die.


I have a Close Combat Youtube Channel

My Small Maps Mod for Close Combat: Gateway to Caen. Install guide and discussion
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