The huge amount of versions is working against rather than for us. A standard version for modding (like CC5 used to be), agreed on by the community, might save effort and aid in returning some enthusiasm.
Ya think? I used to refer to this new title every year as CC Purgatory.
I tried to encourage people to move mods to WaR/TLD. They would have done this with or without my "advise" and it has been acomplished in a large way.
But people are still interested in the other editions like LSA, and PitF, where Matrix keeps modifying every new title by adding new features, and also making it more and more difficult to migrate the older mods to the newer titles.
The idea now, is to make brand new mods for PitF and beyond or just stop modding altogehter and wait for the next Matrix title, since you don't have to wait very long.
I could see some people jumping in at PitF, and just ditching everything that came before it. If that were to become mainstraim, any fan site would become basically a forum with downloadable modding tools. You know, a complete reset.
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:22 pm Post subject: Re: Was 10 years enough?
That is the way the NEW "Heroes of Stalingrad" is based, turn-based and with those ugly hexes. After playing CC I never wanted to see those again, or at least I can go for a very long time in CC with all the mods before I ever need to try anything else.
Noticed that there was a GJS version where the mod was started 14 days later. Very enjoyable as far as challenges go. The AI does seem to be pretty aggressive as far as movement on the strat map is concerned. Giving me a pretty good run for my money.
"No plan ever survives first contact with the enemy." Moltke
Firstly I'd like to thank mooxe for running this site for so long. Its been an awesome home base for CC and the only site I have ever really used for these games. huge props for keeping this community going.
With regards to arguments for keeping it running it seems like the lack of enthusiasm or lack of revival have been a major influence. Perhaps there are some ways we could address this without relying simply on matrix for a suddenly great game?
Some things I have noticed since lurking around here and some random ideas:
- The huge amount of versions is working against rather than for us. A standard version for modding (like CC5 used to be), agreed on by the community, might save effort and aid in returning some enthusiasm.
-Perhaps negotiate with matrix for a discount on said version to enhance community participation?
-I could host a teamspeak server to get people talking and maybe help new people get more involved in the community?
- Community games like the one davidssfx ran seemed to help.
Either way this site has been a great asset to the community and I will be sorry to see it go!
I have been playing recently CC3 Mods and IMO I couldn't say unfortunately CC5 system is better than it. First of all, there are more options when you are creating new battle, you can set VLs as much and where you want them to be and deployment areas. I play CC3 Vietnam mod and can easily create a battle where team is encircled by NVA and set 3-4 VLs in area so, NVA teams attack me in 2-3 directions simultanoeusly crazily...! I thoroughly loved it and regret that I have not discovered the mod earlier. Of course, it is a flaw of CC3 that there is no Stratmap and strategic movements. Graphic details are not an issue for me, I love Weapon and team variety.
However I agree that some common standards could be determined and standard modding data files, maps etc. could be uploaded for everyone's use, which would in turn make it easier for new modders things easier.
A discount from matrix could be nice but I am not sure, Matrix can release a sole Classic CC5. They actually have it on TLD release as Classic CC5 but it is of no use to run CC5 mods.
I know Matrix doesn't host mods and it is Copyright issuses etc. But they could release a common CC release (with all nice features from CC3 and CC5 combined), to which all existing mods could be converted by community. Besides, they could develop new features, like silenced weapons.
There is also the issue of many unfinished mods. For example, I noticed coincidentally, there have been indochine and falklands mod for cc3 initiated many years ago. I would really love to see them coming.
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:09 pm Post subject: Re: Was 10 years enough?
Yea I definitely agree CC3 has some advantages. Im not too concerned about which version, though a new one with CC3 and CC5 like functions would be awesome, however it would probably also be dreaming. That said one of the newer remakes is probably a good idea, mainly due to the many crashes in the older ones on new computers. It looks like that could be done with some community effort and some sort of guidelines on how to port mods to them? I can spare some time to chip away at things if I knew how.
As for CC purgatory, I think that is an apt name I think, especially with the price tags on each one!
What did people think about a Teamspeak server? And maybe if there are enough of us in a given location to have a yearly LAN or something that could help rebuild some ties? Just throwing ideas out really - I think this game is something pretty unique and worth preserving, I have certainly never found much that comes close to it.
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:39 pm Post subject: Re: Was 10 years enough?
I actually have an idea to advertise the community. I consider giving the web adress and a short description of game in comments of videos in youtube which are related to WWII, military history or war documentaries. Maybe this could attract attention of guys who like historical realism and military games.
Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:39 pm Post subject: Re: Was 10 years enough?
Quote:
As for the downloads.. Can someone tell me exactly why Matrix isn't updating Schrecken's site? I understand Schrecken isn't around anymore, but thought that he was allowing Matrix to use that site as a portal for us users.
Slitherine asked me to take the matrix hosted site down as they didn't want it.... surprised it's still there actually.
I'm not going to do that as it would take some effort.
They have dropped all support mods/mmcc3/earlier releases.
Dumbass Pitf release
Dumbass lobby h2h connections
fix nothing , support nothing
and they still owe me and other people money - GFC may arse
Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:44 pm Post subject: Re: Was 10 years enough?
Quote:
But people are still interested in the other editions like LSA, and PitF, where Matrix keeps modifying every new title by adding new features, and also making it more and more difficult to migrate the older mods to the newer titles.
The plan was for all new releases to support the earlier releases, so that if you had Panthers in the Fog you could play mods made for WaR... this support was dropped too!
Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:30 pm Post subject: Re: Was 10 years enough?
Quote:
The plan was for all new releases to support the earlier releases, so that if you had Panthers in the Fog you could play mods made for WaR... this support was dropped too!
That would have been a worthwhile addition. They did it somewhat with WAR/TLD, wonder why it was scrapped with WAR/TLD to PITF? Could it have been (gulp) sales of older titles?
Thanks for the info on your site Schrecken, much appreciated, as was all the effort you put into it.
Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:17 pm Post subject: Re: Was 10 years enough?
Quote:
Slitherine asked me to take the matrix hosted site down as they didn't want it.... surprised it's still there actually.
I suppose it depends on the reasons Matrix gave for wanting the site taken down.
So who owns the "closecombat" domain. S3, Matrix, or someone else?
Is the content actually stored on Matrix servers, etc...
Otherwise, is it possible to remove the links to the Matrix Forums, and have a nifty download site for mods and other add-on content.
If possible, we could just vector donations to S3.
Because if none of this is possible, then I just don't understand why S3 won't take the site down as Matrix/Slitherene asked. How much work could it possibly be? Just asking actually.
Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:47 pm Post subject: Re: Was 10 years enough?
Matrix owns it, and they host all content on the site to. The closecombat portion of closecombat.matrixgames.com is a subdomain. You can make them anything you want, Matrix controls that. Deleting the site would be the same as deleting a folder off your hard drive, or they could shut off the subdomain which would make all the content unreachable.
Is Strategy 3 Tactics a tangible company? Or was it just a name for a collection of hired contractors?
Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 9:31 am Post subject: Re: Was 10 years enough?
To Me, CC Modders are like special forces, they are tough and operate under harsh conditions with no direct support and their actions are denied by Matrix. But Whenever they succeed, they make stock version sell and carry the series forward.
I can't imagine without mods, series would last so many years, For example, TLD has many features from GJS. Otherwise they wouldn't bother involving Brits in Normandy in Game. Matrix should solve the issue of supporting mods before they go further, maybe they could make advanced retail versions of them by paying modders and to copyright holders of material used(photos, sound etc.).
Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:29 pm Post subject: Re: Was 10 years enough?
Oh My God...is Matrix and Slitherine THAT cheap that they won't even pay their developers / project staff back-pay? We already knew they were ridiculously cheap but this is even worse than I thought. Yet predictable.
That confirms my worse fears about just how incredibly stingy Matrix and Slitherine is. BUSINESS 101 lessons...if you actually want to make a profit and make money you have to invest a minimum amount of $ to have a successful business plan. I guess the Monkeys in suits don't even want to try to have a successful business plan.
And just the fact that Slitherine actually had the nerve to request removal of CC section from website tells us everything we know about taking cheap to a whole new level. Come on...you can't pay the extra $10 a month for storage capacity or tiny amount of network bandwidth?
As for the downloads.. Can someone tell me exactly why Matrix isn't updating Schrecken's site? I understand Schrecken isn't around anymore, but thought that he was allowing Matrix to use that site as a portal for us users.
Slitherine asked me to take the matrix hosted site down as they didn't want it.... surprised it's still there actually.
I'm not going to do that as it would take some effort.
They have dropped all support mods/mmcc3/earlier releases.
Dumbass Pitf release
Dumbass lobby h2h connections
fix nothing , support nothing
and they still owe me and other people money - GFC may arse
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:05 am Post subject: Re: Was 10 years enough?
I understand some of what you are saying DJ. I also would like to see Matrix/Slitherine continue supporting the CC server if they can and UPDATE it since we now know it is theirs and theirs alone it seems.
Flips side, from a business standpoint? I can understand why they would stop supporting a product afeter it had been "modded to death" with various mods and go to a new product for (hopefully) more sales. Those of you from a business and/or sales background will understand that.
I am of the mind that is why the supporting of mods back to WAR was thrown out of PITF that Screcken mentioned a few posts back after thought it over good.. Think about it.. People could find "hot" copies of any version on the web, buy the newest, then play any available mod for the price of one.
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:11 am Post subject: Re: Was 10 years enough?
I finally got around to putting Co.of Hero's back on my PC.
And low and behold,
The server that they were using was dropped.
Now I got to either download and use Steam (which I did)
But also got to figure out how to now patch the dam thing,and they had a LOT of patches.
Just so I can play the Battle of the Bulge Mod.
The Relic forums are not very fan friendly either when it comes to the same question over and over.
It's a real pain in the Arse.
COI is losing MMCCIII,probably ModSwap and BHQ.
WAR hasn't been patched since 3/14/2012 and Truly needs one.Especially for the coding of LOS on Maps.
I don't have tLD or LSA so I have no comment.
PifT has a dedicated Lobby.How long do you really expect that to last?
Snow will not be in the bloody first but is very likely to be in future releases. (Probably already working on that next game,we've seen that before).
Oh wait............
He said they had only 1 dedicated art/3D modeling person. (One,Dedicated)
1
Once this One Guy gets done with the bloody first.
Expect anything/everything for the re-releases to go the way of the DoDo
Currently there are about four artists (art/visual related) working on 'The Bloody First' including me.
Conrad, of those 4 who are “freelance artist”, how many full time employees do they equal, (40 hours work per week).?
BTW: My new opend book store has 5 freelance empyees.
Ohh yeh, counting the egger volunteers who sort books into the shelfs, (mess it up) there’s at least 5 more "freelance"-ers. Thought, not counting my senile mother.. ...
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In August of 2004, Zappi, Homba, Bambam887, RedScorpion and MOOXE all pitched
in to create this Close Combat site. I would to thank all the people who have visited
and found this site to thier liking. I hope you had time to check out some
of the great Close Combat mods and our forums. I'd also like to thank
all the members of our volunteer staff that have helped over
the years, and all our users that contributed to this site!
