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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:52 am Post subject: Re: The Ukraine Reply with quote

UH-HUH  Exclamation [impersonating Barney the Purple Dinosaur]

I go away for a few weeks, and the CCS "think tank" stops posting in the "Russia" thread and all move over to the "Ukraine" thread.

But, the same BS NATO propaganda is being constantly spewed by the wannabees in the "tank". I am guessing the notion of regular Gay Pride events in Kiev keep these people bashing Russia on a regular basis.

The "think tankers" have gone to new lows mentioning East Bloc corruption. What a laffer. They all got their "Shoot a Pooch" T-shirts from the same website.

If Putin could just expand the nuclear war beyond Ukraine, but multi-cultural Toronto might be Putin's first target.


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Troger

Rep: 17.5
votes: 2


PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 6:01 am Post subject: Re: The Ukraine Reply with quote

Dima wrote (View Post):
Troger wrote (View Post):
Thanks for being here to always prove my point Dima! And just in case your stupid bullshit is believe by anyone: no, Nikita Khruschev was NOT ethnic Ukrainian. He was born in what is now Russia and was ethnically Russian.

I know you are stupid little hating troll but if a person was born in say Russia and come to the US when he was 3-5 yo will he be American or Russian?
btw Kruschev spent all his youth in Donbass and he was the one who gifted the Crimea to Ukraine - such an irony Wink


American isn't an ethnic group, it's only a nationality.  Either way, he's still Russian.  

And "gifting" Crimea to Ukraine was a pretty smart political decision by him.  Since it would enable the newly resettled ethnic Russians to vote for pro-Russian corrupt shitheads--and it's exactly what happened.  Best part of Crimea and potentially Luhansk and Donetsk going to Russia?  Those pro-Russian parties (Party of Regions and Communists) will lose all their voters.  Very Happy

And to answer your hypothetical, I wouldn't trust an ethnic Russian whose family has resided in my country for the last three generations with a wooden stick.  Numerous historical examples of ethnic Russians who resided in other countries for generations betraying their host nation (the most recent example is Ukraine).  Look at Latvia and Estonia--no one there likes them there, they refuse to learn the native language, and they are just waiting to take up arms for Moscow.  An ethnic Russian only brings his ignorance and one-ton babushka with him.
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johnsilver

Rep: 61.4
votes: 4


PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:43 pm Post subject: Re: The Ukraine Reply with quote

Quote:
I wouldn't trust an ethnic Russian whose family has resided in my country for the last three generations with a wooden stick


They said this about the Irish before the turn of the 20th century. They said this about the Italians also during the early 20th century.

Nobody complained during the 1st WW when the irish filled the trenches and nobody complained when the Italians fought bravely during the 2nd either.

The Italian mafia even stopped it's eternal wars against anything and everything deemed "legal" during WW2 and brought the unions into line to increase output of shipping, something that helped keep europe afloat. So much for "non 3rd generational" invaders having to prove themselves.

Same with Russians. As long as a people show themselves willing to adapt, as most Russians do? Forget that 3rd generation horse crap.
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Troger

Rep: 17.5
votes: 2


PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:51 pm Post subject: Re: The Ukraine Reply with quote

Johnsilver, I don't know what a Russian-American would do, and quite frankly I don't care.  Anyone that moves to the U.S. must assimilate in some form or another to be successful, and so after a few generations your no longer a member of one single ethnic group and those loyalties are lost--so I'm sure at some point those people would be loyal to the U.S.  

Russians in Europe are a whole different story--specifically Russians that reside in countries that border Russia (former countries of the USSR).  There, Russians are wolves in sheeps clothing.  There are some that realize that Russia is a shithole, filled with ignoramuses, under corrupt and idiotic leadership but they are a minority, or at least not vocal.  

It's really not a point to be argued with. The subject of this thread is about a war in the Ukraine that was started by ethnic Russians whose families have lived in the Ukraine for 2 or 3+ generations and still think Russia can do no wrong, that Putin is god, and Soviet Communism "was the good old days"--who wouldn't want this loyal, intelligent bunch of rats in their country, huh?


Last edited by Troger on Wed Sep 10, 2014 6:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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johnsilver

Rep: 61.4
votes: 4


PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:00 am Post subject: Re: The Ukraine Reply with quote

I'd be careful before condemning most of an entire population. germans were looked at as warlike and not welcome in some countries for a long time. mainly European ones that overlooked their own warlike leaders barely a century before who had marched from Russia to as far south as Africa.

Dangerous to condemn all for the sins of some.
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pvt_Grunt

Rep: 86
votes: 5


PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:35 am Post subject: Re: The Ukraine Reply with quote

johnsilver wrote (View Post):
condemn all for the sins of some.


The definition of racism
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johnsilver

Rep: 61.4
votes: 4


PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 10:14 am Post subject: Re: The Ukraine Reply with quote

pvt_Grunt wrote (View Post):
johnsilver wrote (View Post):
condemn all for the sins of some.


The definition of racism


That wasn't exactly where was heading on that, but yes. It can in some situations. Problem is that other times, some of the problems are not racist at all, but run in what is barbaric in what the practices they wish to import to a western country. If this one certain ethnic group wishes to head to any western country, don't expect to take genital mutilation, spousal beating, or any one of half dozen other barbaric acts with them.

The groups that have immigrated in large numbers to the US have seen no problems assimilating to the US way in my lifetime. That is, the groups that are fairly new to immigrating in large masses. Except for 1 and that one 1st stuck to themselves, in isolation years back and lately, or a couple decades back became more and more vocal about the rest of the US either treating this sole group differently than every other ethnic group was that emigrated to the US previously, or accepting some of the barbaric customs that this group subscribes to.
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:47 am Post subject: Re: The Ukraine Reply with quote

mooxe wrote (View Post):
nice photo showing a nature of the Ukranian army fighting in Donbas now Smile

but of course everyone will blame Putin/Russia for attacking the Red Cross vehicles on march when they will be destroyed for towing those guns...
Dima this made me laugh...
Why no coordinates or anything we can take as a frame of reference.

You can laugh further but that's obviously a column of the Ukranian army somewhere in Ukraine.


Quote:
Anyways... interesting photo. Our ambulances in the Canadian army can have their red crosses covered up. The "covers" are large metal flaps that fold over the red cross. Convenient if we want to use the vehicle for other purposes. In this case I am going to guess the Ukrainians are not using it the red cross for protection for two reasons. One, the crosses are too small to be recognized from a distance, especially from air attack. Second, its obvious they are hauling artillery, there's no effort to cover up that fact. Those covers on the guns are there to protect it from the elements. I bet they are using them because there are were no other means to transport those guns. An effort should of been made to cover up the red crosses.

such size and design of Red Cross sign was typical for the Soviet Army and that's why still used in most of ex-USSR countries.
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:02 am Post subject: Re: The Ukraine Reply with quote

Troger wrote (View Post):
Dima wrote (View Post):

American isn't an ethnic group, it's only a nationality.  Either way, he's still Russian.

Ok, but in N.Kruschev passport circa 1947 it was stated "Ukranian" under natianality.  

[quote]And "gifting" Crimea to Ukraine was a pretty smart political decision by him.  Since it would enable the newly resettled ethnic Russians to vote for pro-Russian corrupt shitheads--and it's exactly what happened.  Best part of Crimea and potentially Luhansk and Donetsk going to Russia?  Those pro-Russian parties (Party of Regions and Communists) will lose all their voters.  Very Happy

Crimea was given to Ukraine SSR because of economical reasons. Same as South Ossetia was given to Georgian SSR.

Quote:
And to answer your hypothetical, I wouldn't trust an ethnic Russian whose family has resided in my country for the last three generations with a wooden stick.
 
ok, but would you trust Brimm, Sikorskiy, Turchaninov, etc?

Quote:
Numerous historical examples of ethnic Russians who resided in other countries for generations betraying their host nation (the most recent example is Ukraine).

examples please, and as for Ukraine, Russians were the host nation to host Ukranians under Russian Empire.  

Quote:
Look at Latvia and Estonia--no one there likes them there, they refuse to learn the native language, and they are just waiting to take up arms for Moscow.  An ethnic Russian only brings his ignorance and one-ton babushka with him.

that's a BS. All the industrial cities of Latvia like Daugaupils are Russian speaking, same for their capital Riga.
yes, old people don't want to learn new language but a young generation normall speaks Latvian.
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:40 am Post subject: Re: The Ukraine Reply with quote

David Cameron hasn't come out yet. But here he outlines the main goal of all NATO countries.

There are just volumes of this kind of stuff from the UK & CANADIAN governments. It is all propaganda, regarding Russian laws, regarding oddly enough, GAY PROPAGANDA.

So, if Cameron was a Russian citizen, he might be arrested for spewing this.  Arrow


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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:40 pm Post subject: Re: The Ukraine Reply with quote

Apart from Gay Rights, NATO countries continue to beg for Gay asylum seekers, or promote "conversion" from heterosexual lifestyles to LGBT lifestyles.

It is strange but NATO countries now actively advise their citizens to convert to Islam as well. Christianity has been removed long ago in the EU, and now Islam will fill the void. Going forward, NATO is not going to tolerate Christians and homophobes in countries like Russia.

Here is another Cameron video. Remember, the men in this video are career politicians, which means virtually every sentence is a lie.  Arrow


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johnsilver

Rep: 61.4
votes: 4


PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:37 pm Post subject: Re: The Ukraine Reply with quote

Quote:
Apart from Gay Rights, NATO countries continue to beg for Gay asylum seekers, or promote "conversion" from heterosexual lifestyles to LGBT lifestyles.

It is strange but NATO countries now actively advise their citizens to convert to Islam as well. Christianity has been removed long ago in the EU, and now Islam will fill the void. Going forward, NATO is not going to tolerate Christians and homophobes in countries like Russia.

Here is another Cameron video. Remember, the men in this video are career politicians, which means virtually every sentence is a lie.  Arrow


So.. Are we just to suppose an image of Obama in the video and figure it's him instead STWA? That's the 100% exact of what he says anyway. You saying O stole his ideals? Maybe the US should deport O for plagiarism of ideals? Can we be lucky enough to get rid of him on that alone? Or is that enough of a crime amongst liberals? Who commonly lie, cheat, steal..
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Hetser

Rep: 23.7


PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 4:43 am Post subject: Re: The Ukraine Reply with quote

HI Dima  (This post is for you )

I have read what I said in a few sources. If you could share your written sources to the contrary, or your Russian school experience, I would appreciate the contrary view, so far I have heard only one side. (He who hears one side hears half a story).

Audi Alteram Partem

Anyhow: \"National Post"  7/31/14 :   "...In 1920 Lenin invaded the newly-indpendent Poland. Russia again in 1939, January 1945. In between the depredations on the Vistula, Stalin launched a terror famine in Poland's neighbour, Ukraine, killing MILLIONS (caps mine) in one of the great atrocities of all history, the Holodomor... the ideological and nationalist ambitions that drove Russian tyranny beyond its borders in the Soviet period have never been confronted and renounced...described (as) this "Russian sickness."  A systemic misrepresentation of the past and thence to a falsification of the present."

The Montreal Gazette ran a similar article.

So you will probably agree that we need a balanced discussion in everything.

(and no, I do not share my herb, unless you are female of course)

Which CC series do you favor?

Cheers!
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 10:01 am Post subject: Re: The Ukraine Reply with quote

Hi Hetser,

Hetser wrote (View Post):
Anyhow: \"National Post"  7/31/14 :   "...In 1920 Lenin invaded the newly-indpendent Poland.

that's a good example of how the history is twisted in the West.

In reality in 1919 following the defeat of the Triple Alliance and retreat of the German and Austro-Hungarian troops Poland has started its expansion to take back the terriotries belonged to it by 1772 (Rzezhpospolita) including areas in Germany, Czechoslovakia, East Prussia, Lithuania, Belorus and Ukraine. And that's where they met the Sovet troops who after defeaet of Germany and denouncation of the Brest-Litovsk peace treaty started to retreieve the lost areas since late 1918. The first combat was on January 28th at Volkovysk (40km east of the modern Belorus-Poland border), by February 13th that the Soviets held the Vilno - Lida - Slonim - Kartuzskaya Bereza - st.Ivanovo (west of Pinsk) line.
But as there was a civil war in Russia and only 80K was available in the West the Polish using numerical superiority started their attack in late February 1919 capturing Slonim (February 2Cool, Pinsk (March 2), Lida, Novogrudsk, Baranovichi, Vilno (by Arpil 19), Grodno (April 2Cool. In May 1919 the line stabilized again.
In July 1919 the Polish launched thei new offence and captured Molodechno (July 4), Slutsk (July 25), Minks (August 9), Bobruisk (August 29). Then a cease fire was announced and peace treaty discussion were started with participation of Poland, ANTANTA and Denikin. The Kerzon line was recommended by ANTANTA in December 1919 but as the Polish forces were already way Eastern Poland refused to follow. Then discussions were held between Soviet Russia and Poland that led to nowhere again.
In January 1920 the Polish forces broke the cease fire and captured Dinaburg.
On March 6 1920 the Polish launched a full attack in Belorus again and captured Mozyr.
On April 25th 1920 still using the advantage of numerical superiority the Polish launched their attack in Ukraine and by April 28th reached Chernobyl - Kozjatin - Vinnitsa - Romanian border line. On May 7th Kiev was captured.
By May the Soviets transferred more troops from South front of civil war and launched a counteroffence on May 14th in Belorus.
On July 26 the Soviet troops crossed the Belorus-Poland border at Byalostok.

So it's a same as to say that the USSR invaded Germany in 1945.

Quote:
Russia again in 1939,

yes. just no need to forget that 1 year before, in October 1938, Poland has invaded Czechoslovakia along with Germany and annexed the industrial Teshin area.

Quote:
January 1945

another great twist!
though it was 1944.

Quote:
In between the depredations on the Vistula, Stalin launched a terror famine in Poland's neighbour, Ukraine, killing MILLIONS (caps mine) in one of the great atrocities of all history, the Holodomor...

that's a BS. Holodomor - is a myth invented by the Ukranian nazis who immigrated to North America in 50s.
Even wiki map shows that the Great Famine of 1932-33 affected the whole South-West of USSR not just Ukraine. And even in Ukraine the Russian areas were more affected than Western (Ukrainians) areas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1932%E2%80%9333#mediaviewer/File:Famine_en_URSS_1933.jpg
try to read this and then we can have a discussion about the Great Famine:
http://www.as.wvu.edu/history/Faculty/Tauger/Tauger,%20'The%201932%20Harvest%20and%20the%20Famine%20of%201933,%20SR%2091.pdf
 
Quote:
The Montreal Gazette ran a similar article.

maybe it's time to start reading historical works instead?


Last edited by Dima on Fri Sep 19, 2014 10:06 am; edited 2 times in total
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Siwy89

Rep: 13.1


PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:18 pm Post subject: Re: The Ukraine Reply with quote

Poland's attack in 1919 and 1920 in Belarus and Ukraine was strategic strike to suprise Soviet's forces, before they can assemble and threaten newly formed polish lands. If we would wait for Soviet attack, they will propably end on Odra river, not Vistula as it was historically. We didn't want to swarm all Europe as Lenin wanted, our goal was to retrieve most lands taken from us by Russian empire and made federation of countries which were once part of Polish-Lithuanian Union (Rzeczpospolita). E.g. Ukraine was supposed to be independent under lidership of ataman Petlura but that didn't work out.  


Quote:
yes. just no need to forget that 1 year before, in October 1938, Poland has invaded Czechoslovakia along with Germany and annexed the industrial Teshin area.


Polish forces do not cooperate with Germans, anexation of Zaolzie and Teshin area has roots in Polish-Czechoslovakia border disputes, which begans shortly after I World War http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Czechoslovak_border_conflicts.
It is funny to compare Polish anexation of Zaolzie with Soviet anexation of eastern Poland. We were not shooting in back of the head  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre

Again, Russan "liberation" offensive in Poland which began in september '44 was more like an invasion. Polish partisans which were cooperating with soviet forces was taken into arrest by the same men they were fighting shoulder to shoulder. Not to mention many rapists among red army.

Polish soldier was fighting with nazi Germany in all theatres of second world war and I will not allow to twist memory of these great men.
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 7:36 pm Post subject: Re: The Ukraine Reply with quote

Siwy89 wrote (View Post):
Poland's attack in 1919 and 1920 in Belarus and Ukraine was strategic strike to suprise Soviet's forces, before they can assemble and threaten newly formed polish lands. If we would wait for Soviet attack, they will propably end on Odra river, not Vistula as it was historically. We didn't want to swarm all Europe as Lenin wanted, our goal was to retrieve most lands taken from us by Russian empire and made federation of countries which were once part of Polish-Lithuanian Union (Rzeczpospolita). E.g. Ukraine was supposed to be independent under lidership of ataman Petlura but that didn't work out.

Of course, that's what I said above, same as how the Germans attacked the USSR in 1941 to prevent the USSR to threaten the newly German lands Wink.
  
Quote:
Polish forces do not cooperate with Germans, anexation of Zaolzie and Teshin area has roots in Polish-Czechoslovakia border disputes, which begans shortly after I World War http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Czechoslovak_border_conflicts.
It is funny to compare Polish anexation of Zaolzie with Soviet anexation of eastern Poland. We were not shooting in back of the head  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre

of course it's totally different, as no matter that the Polish troops invaded Teshin area in same time as the Germans invaded Sudet area but this act couldn't be compared with what that bloody Stalin did!

Quote:
Again, Russan "liberation" offensive in Poland which began in september '44 was more like an invasion. Polish partisans which were cooperating with soviet forces was taken into arrest by the same men they were fighting shoulder to shoulder. Not to mention many rapists among red army.

poor fellas, you are always being invaded either from one side or another Smile.

Quote:
Polish soldier was fighting with nazi Germany in all theatres of second world war and I will not allow to twist memory of these great men.

maybe you should start by not allowing to twist a memory with those 200.000+ Polish men of Wojsko Polskie who were helping the Red Army to liberate Poland and then capture Berlin?
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Siwy89

Rep: 13.1


PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 8:33 pm Post subject: Re: The Ukraine Reply with quote

Stalin was a murderer and bloody tyrant who was responsible for deaths of milions, many of them were citizens of Soviet Union, I am certain that you know that very well so where is the point in beign ironic?  

When Hitler was attacking USSR, soviets were prepering for further invasion. Why allies were so yielding about Germany's actions in Monachium Conference (1938) ? Great Britain and France wanting to make hammer from nazi Germany to stop Stalin.

Quote:
poor fellas, you are always being invaded either from one side or another


Not that poor, no matter who was attacking us and from how many directions, we always manage to restore Poland one way or another. It's not that bad, considering we are doing this for over a 1000 years ;)

"In 1943 the Soviet Union created in Moscow the Union of Polish Patriots (ZPP) as a communist puppet government designed to counter the legitimacy of the Polish government in exile"

That is not what I call Polish army, just fooled, poor fellas which were an instrument of soviet propaganda.
I do not deny they bravery, but they were overthrowing one aggressor to install another.

In Russia they are teaching you only about what great heroic was soviet army? Because in post influenced soviet countries (de facto occupied by red army) they are seen more as an oppressor.
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 12:41 am Post subject: Re: The Ukraine Reply with quote

Siwy89 wrote (View Post):
Stalin was a murderer and bloody tyrant who was responsible for deaths of milions, many of them were citizens of Soviet Union, I am certain that you know that very well so where is the point in beign ironic?

actually I believe he is responsible for deaths of trillions or was it billions?
what actually strikes me is why noone saved the Russians from that Georgian-jew butcher Sad  

Quote:
When Hitler was attacking USSR, soviets were prepering for further invasion. Why allies were so yielding about Germany's actions in Monachium Conference (1938) ? Great Britain and France wanting to make hammer from nazi Germany to stop Stalin.

ablosultely agree and that's why that Georgian butcher and betrayer of the Slavic people signed a Mobilization Plan 1941 (in 1940) according to which the bunkers on the new border should be ready by July 1942!

Quote:
Not that poor, no matter who was attacking us and from how many directions, we always manage to restore Poland one way or another. It's not that bad, considering we are doing this for over a 1000 years Wink

I really respect this and we all respect the Polish as you were the only one who captured Moscow and sit there for more than a year Wink - no sarcasm here actually

Quote:
"In 1943 the Soviet Union created in Moscow the Union of Polish Patriots (ZPP) as a communist puppet government designed to counter the legitimacy of the Polish government in exile"That is not what I call Polish army, just fooled, poor fellas which were an instrument of soviet propaganda.
I do not deny they bravery, but they were overthrowing one aggressor to install another. In Russia they are teaching you only about what great heroic was soviet army? Because in post influenced soviet countries (de facto occupied by red army) they are seen more as an oppressor.

it's actually pretty same here;
1945 - Stalin is a hero, fascits are killers.
1961 - USSR is a hero, Stalin is not that good, fascits are killers.
1985 - USSR is not that hero, Stalin is bad, fascits are killers but there were some normal guys among them.
1991 - USSR is not a hero, Stalin is a killer, fascits were not that bad but there were killers among them.
2000 - USSR is an occupant, Stalin is a killer, fascits are good and if there wasnt Stalin there would not be killers among them .
2013 - USSR is an occupant and would lost a war without USA, Stalin is a monster, faacits were defending.

well actually a great propaganda and twisting. we should learn.
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 2:29 pm Post subject: Re: The Ukraine Reply with quote

NUKE it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

What took em so long?


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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:55 am Post subject: Re: The Ukraine Reply with quote

that's a BS. Holodomor - is a myth invented by the Ukranian nazis who immigrated to North America in 50s. Even wiki map shows that the Great Famine of 1932-33 affected the whole South-West of USSR not just Ukraine. And even in Ukraine the Russian areas were more affected than Western (Ukrainians) areas. -Dima

Dima (a Holodomor liar), is spamming away as usual. He just makes it up as he is typing it, and pretends he is some kind of historian.

Even Dima's linked article about the Soviet Famine cites Holodomar and provides a link to its own article. The number of deaths, Ukranian or otherwise is generally a function of the historian. The Holodomor Article mentions Stanislav Kulchytsky who estimated 10 million Ukranians killed, which are a subset of the total deaths. For many years, Stanislav Kulchytsky, was the head of the department of Ukrainian history at the country’s National Academy of Sciences.

Denial of the Holodomor is the assertion that the 1932–1933 Holodomor, a man-made famine in Soviet Ukraine, did not occur. This denial and suppression was made in official Soviet propaganda from the very beginning until the 1980s. -wiki

Holodomor
Denial of the Holodomor
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