-Multiplayer? it will be a 1vs1, it had been great if it had been a 2vs2.
So has it already been decided that his game will only be 1vs1 multiplayer?
I am a longtime fan of the series, and am probably a relatively young player. I started playing the series in early teens and played through the first 4-5 of the series and played a lot of CC3 multiplayer. I haven't purchased the last games of the series after those because ,quite frankly, they are just rehashes as good as the series is.
I heard the news about the new engine and became very excited, but was quite disappointed when I read it will still be 1v1 MP. Me and a friend have always dreamed of playing CO-OP campaign close combat. For us personally that would be a huge addition and would definitely be the difference between purchasing and possibly not purchasing the game.
I really think at least 2v2ai and hopefully a co-op campaign mode would be great for sales, especially if released on steam. I don't think it would require a whole lot. Honestly if we just controlled the same units, or could split up the squads how we chose, but have the rest of the campaign be identical to normal single player we would be more than ecstatic, even if that means the host does all of the decision making in the menu/squad selection screens and then 2p is granted control once the actual map starts.
Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 5:29 am Post subject: Re: Close Combat the Bloody First FAQ
At this moment, I would be more worried about if the matrix lobby run better.
Quote:
Me and a friend have always dreamed of playing CO-OP campaign close combat.
If you are playing against a friend, it would be 1vs1. At multiplayer games there is not a IA faction, never. But if you want play with your friend a campaign sharing the same forces, it is easy, just you can share the savegame with your friend and each of you can play a battle from the campaign.
Quote:
I really think at least 2v2ai and hopefully a co-op campaign mode would be great for sales, especially if released on steam. I don't think it would require a whole lot. Honestly if we just controlled the same units, or could split up the squads how we chose, but have the rest of the campaign be identical to normal single player we would be more than ecstatic, even if that means the host does all of the decision making in the menu/squad selection screens and then 2p is granted control once the actual map starts.
Make a multiplayer game requires a lot of research, time and money, increase the amount of players probably would need a lot of things that they have not at this moment where they are making a new first version working at a new engine and they have needed 2 years for it.
Now if you like CC games and you want see more updates at the future, you should buy the game. If you think that do not buying it, you will launch a message to the creators about improve it, yes, you will launch the message but they will not release more CC games.
Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 9:56 pm Post subject: Re: Close Combat the Bloody First FAQ
@Nomada Firefox: It is true that ideally we should try to support the developers to make better CC games by buying their products. However, normally they should also give us the confidence that they will be doing a *good* job, not above average, not a "will just have to do" game, but a *really good* game. I don't buy 40 Euro games all the time after all, it is quite a decent sum of money!
So far, I personally believe I have supported the devs by purchasing some of the re-releases. However, I was quite disappointed for most part to see that the community demands/suggestions were not considered properly in these games. They implement a nice thing in one of the games, then they remove it in another. Especially Panthers in the Fog with their stupid lobby system was the final straw.
As far as I have read here people commenting on the new features in The Bloody First (assuming they are going to remain like that), it again confirms the general Matrix/Slytherine behaviour. Now they do 3-D stuff, that looks like our normal CC and that's great! But then they say there won't be multi-story buildings now... I mean when you add something new, don't just take away something good which has existed in the games for years.
@Nomada Firefox: It is true that ideally we should try to support the developers to make better CC games by buying their products. However, normally they should also give us the confidence that they will be doing a *good* job, not above average, not a "will just have to do" game, but a *really good* game. I don't buy 40 Euro games all the time after all, it is quite a decent sum of money!
So far, I personally believe I have supported the devs by purchasing some of the re-releases. However, I was quite disappointed for most part to see that the community demands/suggestions were not considered properly in these games. They implement a nice thing in one of the games, then they remove it in another. Especially Panthers in the Fog with their stupid lobby system was the final straw.
As far as I have read here people commenting on the new features in The Bloody First (assuming they are going to remain like that), it again confirms the general Matrix/Slytherine behaviour. Now they do 3-D stuff, that looks like our normal CC and that's great! But then they say there won't be multi-story buildings now... I mean when you add something new, don't just take away something good which has existed in the games for years.
You don't have to buy it to support it. Just being part of the community is enough. The community is exactly why its being produced, over and over. I bet the majority of people who purchased the games were not really part of this prior. I hear what Crackwise is saying about features added and removed. It always seems like one step forward two steps back. But on the other side, I am sure the power that be are dictating when a new Close Combat comes out and the people doing the work must decide what can be added in that time frame. So you can see where the problem is.
I am not sure whats keeping Close Combat going anymore for Matrix/Slitherine. Originally it was the community and mods, and that's what spawned the rereleases back in 2004 or 2005. Now the community is much smaller, new mods are very rare, and rarely played, probably completely unknown to the vast majority of buyers. Online play is basically finished.
So The Bloody First looks like a step forward. But since its a new engine we're starting all over again. They have a release year of 2014 and Gateway to Caen isn't even out yet. It won't be a reboot, just a re-animation.
Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 4:33 am Post subject: Re: Close Combat the Bloody First FAQ
Quote:
You don't have to buy it to support it. Just being part of the community is enough. The community is exactly why its being produced, over and over.
Sorry Mooxe but you are wrong, you do not support the community if you do not buy the games.
There is not relation between the amount of the community and the amount of games produced because at the end, they count more the amount of games sold. No money=no new games.
About the death from CC community, you have told it. The last games were made with a engine made 14 years ago. They were old before they were released but why? because they could not make a new game with the amount of money from the game sold.
Now at other point, how do you make more players from the games? selling games is the unique solution. We need a better game and Bloody First has all the attributes for this.
Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 11:04 am Post subject: Re: Close Combat the Bloody First FAQ
Well they started re-releasing them because there was an online community, they were not making any money from us then. Ask yourself this, would the community have been created from the re-releases alone? I say no, and they certainly would not of made 7 new versions without us around. They keep releasing versions because they are making some money at it. Saying we have to keep buying the game to support them and get a new Close Combat is incorrect. They could of just made a new one from the beginning.
We really do not know if TBF will be a better game. We've been down this path how many times now? COI, CCMT, TLD, WaR, PITF, LSA and the upcoming GWTC. Its got the best chance to be a better version because they are redoing the AI and pathing.
Now at other point, how do you make more players from the games? selling games is the unique solution. We need a better game and Bloody First has all the attributes for this.
-3D graphics.
-Gameplay.
-Story.
How do you make more player from the games? Simple.
Improve the single player experience.
You can argue until the cows come home about multiplayer and mods, but if the base game isn't up to scratch, you won't get multiplayers or mods. This is perhaps why few people are making mods for games like PitF. The AI is so shocking, it's not worth their time and effort. The multiplayer's fine, but it's hard to convince people to buy a game when the single player is poor and there's trouble finding players.
We've not heard much about the AI in TBF except to say it'll be new and improved. If they fail to deliver on this promise of a decent AI, no one will buy the game.
Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 12:41 pm Post subject: Re: Close Combat the Bloody First FAQ
Quote:
Well they started re-releasing them because there was an online community, they were not making any money from us then
Sometimes I feel if people have good memory, when they made the releases, there were not a single lobby for play CC games, all them were gone and they or microsoft disabled mplayer. What multiplayer community were there when they released the game? no one. Just players joining where they could but nobody could count them and we were claiming a good lobby for the new games for years, now we have a lobby but we have not a good lobby.
Quote:
We've not heard much about the AI in TBF except to say it'll be new and improved. If they fail to deliver on this promise of a decent AI, no one will buy the game.
Yes, you are right, if they lie, nobody will use it but you forget with too many thoughts how Bloody First is 100% new. It is not the same engine from the 14 years before.
I agree and nobody doubts that a good game is necessary for obtain more players. But with exception from how the matrix games lobby works, by the moment, we need trust in the words from the creators. Just I´m tired from read bad theory.
Quote:
You can argue until the cows come home about multiplayer and mods, but if the base game isn't up to scratch, you won't get multiplayers or mods. This is perhaps why few people are making mods for games like PitF. The AI is so shocking, it's not worth their time and effort. The multiplayer's fine, but it's hard to convince people to buy a game when the single player is poor and there's trouble finding players.
This is the join from more of one problem, nobody go to mod a game played by very few people, be at multiplayer or be at singleplayer. The unique exception can be when you make some very especial which you can not find by another way and you can attract players for your game. About me, I have not modded PITF because I had problems editing it and I have not bought the original game, yes, probably I can sound hypocrit with this but I have given more to Matrix than I could take from them and at the end, I have not used it more....if I would make a mod, I would buy the game because I would be playing it.
But TheImperatorKnight I feel reading you how you have not played to all CC games, the IA always was bad, even worse than at PITF in the older CC games and 14 years ago with a bad IA but a good multiplayer, there were thousands of players more than now. At the end, the good IA is not the most important, just at this moment probably we will see one better because the engine is new, if the engine was the old CC engine with few changes, the IA would continue being a shit.
At the end, you must have some confidence in the creators and do not start to be negative when we have not seen more of two screenshots from the game.
Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 3:18 pm Post subject: Re: Close Combat the Bloody First FAQ
Has there been any consideration to putting the series on steam? Or putting the new game to be greenlit on steam? I think there is a lot of potential to bring in way more sales if the game was released there. I don't know why you wouldn't. There are plenty of people with fond memories of CC that have probably forgotten about it. Put it up and steam and I think you could generate a lot of interest.
Hell, make a kickstarter. If it meant the possibility of >2 player MP or especially co-op, I'd donate to it.
But at least steam, at this point in pc gaming I feel that is practically a requirement. It would definitely be the only realistic way to generate new players. They rebooted Age of Empires II, AOE III, and Age of Mythology on steam, and from what I can tell they've done pretty well, and all they did with those is raise the resolution and remade the multiplayer. I see no reason CC couldn't enjoy similar success, especially with the new 3d engine and a updated multiplayer.
Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 4:24 pm Post subject: Re: Close Combat the Bloody First FAQ
I too am surprised when I mention Close combat 1 many people have heard of it, because it was a big game back then and many played and loved it. I get a lot of "Oh yeah I remember that game". When close combat first came out in the late 90's, there was a different breed of people playing it. These people have had books on ww2 and knew about tactics and tanks capabilities of the period just by reading. The people cared more about strategy and history and less about cheating. They didn't want to modify files to their advantage. They knew why they were loosing and what to do for a fix to it. They knew about high ground, the effects of smoke cover etc. There was more people who had hands on board game experience as well. Today there are fewer and fewer people out there who are still like the 90's guys. Today if they can't cheat or win a battle they uninstall it, these people don't want a challenge, they want a massive force that plows over everything with heavy armor. CC doesn't work that way. If their Tiger gets destroyed they blame it on bad AI rather than things that can destroy one etc. Matrix has really improved the strategy aspect but the strategist are a dying breed. People don't appreciate or understand a good game anymore as they did back then. Today this goes hand in hand with other things such as throwing it out when it breaks instead of trying to fix it. Back then people used to fix things that broke. I learned many tactics in cc4 and cc5 that, that now I can just basically sneak up slowly through cover to a medium tank and destroy it with the Garand AT grenade or thrown TNT easily. Took me awhile to get used to PITF and I myself thought it was a huge unfair advantage of the axis to have all those panthers. I read about the old tactics, gun velocities etc. I found out why the ai was so poor on greenhorns and amazing on vets. I learned about the ability to use air/artillary strikes in the strat map to bomb the group in the map and what it does to their morale and numbers. I realized that helped greatly. I didn't really realize there is a reason one group is red and the is bright green vets. I figured out a way to turn the greenhorns that are red into the experienced vets by cycling the teams constantly through the forcepool in PITF campaign mode to eventually make whole forcepool experienced shock troops. There is more to learn tactic wise in CC games that you may think, and it's really more of a game than just moving units around to capture flags trying to win. Do I think CC games are underrated? TOTALLY.
As far a multiplayer goes, you do have to worry about cheaters modifying files. Again this goes back to the dying breed of a pure honest non cheating player. Valves games on steam has VAC anti-cheat that makes sure the h2h players files are not modified and the original ones by cross checking them with the original on server file before playing if VAC considers it a cheat it bans them perma, only if the server is VAC protected. I don't know how Matrix does the anti cheat system. But maybe something like that would work.
Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 9:14 pm Post subject: Re: Close Combat the Bloody First FAQ
Quote:
Has there been any consideration to putting the series on steam? Or putting the new game to be greenlit on steam?
Personally it would be good by the publicity but probably other many people do not like steam, at least with the system of matrix, you buy the game, you install it and you can play it without be logged at another system. Other option can be release a steam version and one normal version but I feel that the story has showed how it is a bad idea, specially for multiplayer and mods.
About kickstarter, they do not need it, probably they have made it with all the money won in the other cc games and at the end, Slitherine is a company with enough power for the proyect.
Of course some of you want better features as a 2vs2 multiplayer and more but I feel that you are not valuing how Slitherine is making a new game and they do not go to use nothing from the previous versions, just the system of game will be the same. I´m sure that if this new game has success, they will add more features with the past of the time because at difference from previous CC games, the unity3d engine will accept them without problems.
At other point, thanks to unity3d, perhaps this new game can be played at other O.S as Mac or even at Android, who knows but at least unity3d was made for them.
Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 4:26 am Post subject: Re: Close Combat the Bloody First FAQ
well...this is interesting for sure.
i dont think im going to like the way they have decided the squads will be picked. from what i can glean from this is you fight with what the game gives you? that blows.
and its linear like CC3?? ....ACKKK...jesus...thats a step back. that means you cant really change the GC and you end up playing on the same old maps over and over again?
IMO the options they had in LSA were rockin...and then they discontinue them...WTF??
for sure im not buying Caen and TBF until at least the 1st patch is out... [ there may not be more than 1 patch for these games as they seem to move on to the next CC game before fixing all the shit thats wrong and thus delivering a game thats 1/2 finished and a disapointment to us all. ] .....im damn tired of wasting my time play testing CC games for them and then have them NOT listen when we find shit thats wrong.
the graphics look ok to me and i like the idea thats its NOT full 3D with multiple camera angles and it still has a top down view. the explosions rock.
IMO they screwed up how the squads are picked in PITF and i think were going to get more of the same in the next 2 games and that will make the game shitty IMO.
like i said above they should have kept the LSA options and the point system that it had and improved from there ...not taken all that away.
WHEN THE PIN IS PULLED "MR GRENADE"IS NOT OUR FRIEND !
Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: Close Combat the Bloody First FAQ
The way I see it is , take away the Strategic level and you might as well put the redicilous new game on X-Box or Play Station . The reason most of us stay with this game is that we can be creative . We can produce new STUFF . Fighting as a single company is NOT Close Combat , no matter where it can be fought or how . The game is going backwards and all the new so called cool 3D graphics will not hide the fact thay are planning to stray away from the core of the game = War Strategy
Tell her when you found me I was with the only brothers I have left.
The way I see it is , take away the Strategic level and you might as well put the redicilous new game on X-Box or Play Station . The reason most of us stay with this game is that we can be creative . We can produce new STUFF . Fighting as a single company is NOT Close Combat , no matter where it can be fought or how . The game is going backwards and all the new so called cool 3D graphics will not hide the fact thay are planning to stray away from the core of the game = War Strategy
I disagree.
Close Combat started as a company level simulation, in CC1 you managed a core of forces (roughly a BG of cc5) through a series of linear interconnected maps. It was called CLOSE COMBAT for a reason, because you were there on the fight, you cared for those sprites, you remembered their last names. The Strategic layer has its good side, it is cool to move your units around and conquer maps to claim them for your color, it gives you a sense of achieving something at the end to feel like you can change history etc. But it also detaches you from your single units, I can't be bothered to care for them sprites because there are so many that I don't remember if on the last fight pvt Muller did something heroic so I send his squad on a suicide mission next battle because he is just "one more" and nothing special, and the strat layer is so simple that it might just as well not be there as such and just "pretend" is there and let the game do the moves of strategic units in a semi-historical manner, like CC2 which has the best campaign system IMO. If only the strat layer had more options, like a true logistical system or something...
As this is a completely new engine that has its own quirks and features I think is only fitting that it goes back to its root and starts improving from there.
Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 5:27 pm Post subject: Re: Close Combat the Bloody First FAQ
Quote:
The Strategic layer has its good side,
Do you know what made the inclusion of the strategic map in the close combat games? it kills all our options from to see a new mod which it would add a new operation. Yes, we could see many new mods for the CC5 but it was the unique CC game where there was a complete tool for create a new strategic map easily.
If the game had been as CC3 forever, we had seen more mods from many different operations because you would not lose a lot of work at make a new strategic map.
Now, we will not see a game with a strategic map and it will add a complete map editor where we can make maps at 100%, it will help a lot in the creation of many mods and I´m sure that many people will join the community.
Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 5:43 pm Post subject: Re: Close Combat the Bloody First FAQ
But my problem with this is will we be only able to play on a single map . if that's the case then we are truly going backwards . Many of us , myself included have never strayed away from CC3/COI because of the requisition points ( purchase ) system and what I was hoping for the advancement of the Close Combat game is that they would bring the best of what CC3/COI and CC5 has to offer and bring them together .To me it seems to be going in the opposite direction or just maybe I dont know enough about what the new game will be like . Would love to have to eat my words later .
Tell her when you found me I was with the only brothers I have left.
Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 9:07 pm Post subject: Re: Close Combat the Bloody First FAQ
I do not see a single map, probably we will see the same amount of maps played linearly and I like it because it is the same system from CC3, one system where you can make a new mod very easily. Other options very similar to CC3, they will be the improve of your teams and units, they have told how after a battle and depending from how you made it, you will receive better units.
Now you can speak me about how good was the strategic map but.......how many new mods have we seen at the last CC games with a strategic map? very very few. I feel how the people which they like the strategic map or they are not interested at the mods or they can not imagine how many work can take to make a strategic map.
Now if I can not make a new strategic map so fast as with the CC5 tool, I do not want a strategic map.
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