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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:27 pm Post subject: Re: Let's make a mod :) Reply with quote

Cathartes wrote (View Post):
Quote:
To be on a safe side I gave 9 companies to II./26/12 but still slots are locked. Maybe there should be some amount of support/infantry unit to tigger 21 slots?
Or what do I do wrong?

Hard to say exactly, but with the 8 company thresholds and opening up the 7 corresponding support slot numbers: since this is an infantry BG, you will need to add 8 infantry companies to get all 7 support spots, not 8 companies total.  Support companies will always only show up as support unless you designate/edit them as infantry, but then you have the problem of having nothing available in your support slots unless you rig an artificial work-around.

Thank you!
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:49 am Post subject: Re: Let's make a mod :) Reply with quote

Cathartes,

Could you ask Steve to fix aiming of tanx in a patch? As even with 100% accuracy they still keep missing at 100m with clear LOS Sad
That's a good feature for 500+m moving or obscured targets but kind of rediculous for clear LOS targets at low range.

btw tried 305mm caliber in weapons for 75mm gun and seems no difference after penetration...
I believe it was wrong to remove "bang" sound when tank is hit as now it's hard to understand if it was a miss or hit. Would be good to have a special graphics for a armor hit with no smoke but some sparks... Why would you want a smoke for hits especially for the british shells if they didn't have HE filler?


Last edited by Dima on Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 1:04 am Post subject: Re: Let's make a mod :) Reply with quote

Progress so far:

1) Adjust most of the data for vehicles and weapons - done.
2) Adjust/fix FPs/units for both sides - in progress.
3) Make 21 slots always available - you decide what you take in battle - harder than I thought Smile.but will manage, I hope
4) Make alot of diversity for teams representing real employment of units - in progress with No2.
5) Adressing vehicle speed - done.
6) Adressing poor aiming of tanks - looks hard-coded, let's all ask Steve!
7) Homing mortars - fixed.


Last edited by Dima on Mon Jul 07, 2014 1:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Tejszd

Rep: 133.6
votes: 19


PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:39 am Post subject: Re: Let's make a mod :) Reply with quote

Sounds good Dima!
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:57 am Post subject: Re: Let's make a mod :) Reply with quote

Quote:
1) Adjust most of the data for vehicles and weapons - done.
2) Adjust/fix FPs/units for both sides - in progress.
3) Make 21 slots always available - you decide what you take in battle - harder than I thought Smile.but will manage, I hope
4) Make alot of diversity for teams representing real employment of units - in progress with No2.
5) Adressing vehicle speed - done.
6) Adressing poor aiming of tanks - looks hard-coded, let's all ask Steve!

ahh, yea, if you were thinking of it but forgot to mention, mortars were rebalanced as well - no more homing mortars, no more killing laying soliders with close explosion, you need alot of mortar ammo and luck to KO a single ATG Smile
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Troger

Rep: 17.5
votes: 2


PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:04 am Post subject: Re: Let's make a mod :) Reply with quote

Dima wrote (View Post):
Progress so far:

1) Adjust most of the data for vehicles and weapons - done.
2) Adjust/fix FPs/units for both sides - in progress.
3) Make 21 slots always available - you decide what you take in battle - harder than I thought Smile.but will manage, I hope
4) Make alot of diversity for teams representing real employment of units - in progress with No2.
5) Adressing vehicle speed - done.
6) Adressing poor aiming of tanks - looks hard-coded, let's all ask Steve!


Nice.  Regarding the poor aiming of tanks, I agree it must go given the ranges we play at in CC, BUT there is a positive to it in that it gives you time to react--not sure that positive outweighs the negatives and completely unrealistic nature of it.  It's funny since Slitherine and company (including you, Cathartes!) are often making defenses against complaints on the basis that the way it is is more realistic.  How is it at all realistic that a tank cannon is missing its first shot at 100 meters?  Tanks appear to miss their first shot 75% of the time, regardless of range.  

Dima, did you make any changes to the Panzershreck and/or Panzerfaust accuracy or damage?  I know the Panzerfaust was a close-range weapon, but it's missing broadside shots on Churchills at under 10 meters by a couple meters--however, if it hits it does tend to be effective (not the case with the Panzerschreck).


Last edited by Troger on Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:24 am Post subject: Re: Let's make a mod :) Reply with quote

Hi Troger,

long time no see ;)

Quote:
Dima, did you make any changes to the Panzershreck and/or Panzerfaust accuracy or damage?  I know the Panzerfaust was a close-range weapon, but it's missing broadside shots on Churchills at under 10 meters by a couple meters--however, if it hits it does tend to be effective (not the cause with the Panzerschreck).

I only rebalanced PzF (not tested yet though) as there were not PzSchrecks in that area that time Smile.
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Cathartes

Rep: 101.3
votes: 15


PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:38 am Post subject: Re: Let's make a mod :) Reply with quote

Quote:
Could you ask Steve to fix aiming of tanx in a patch? As even with 100% accuracy they still keep missing at 100m with clear LOS Sad
That's a good feature for 500+m moving or obscured targets but kind of rediculous for clear LOS targets at low range.
 You can all ask (nicely I might add), but it's not just up to Steve and there's a lot going on.  

Quote:
btw tried 305mm caliber in weapons for 75mm gun and seems no difference after penetration...

don't know about this, just went with what was in PitF.

Quote:
I believe it was wrong to remove "bang" sound when tank is hit as now it's hard to understand if it was a miss or hit. Would be good to have a special graphics for a armor hit with no smoke but some sparks... Why would you want a smoke for hits especially for the british shells if they didn't have HE filler?
 Bang wasn't removed, it's in there but you don't always hear it every time you get a glancing blow/deflected hit.  Don't know why, it's just how this engine functions...  regarding explosions: If we had permission, money, and time, sure... there would be a lot of fun stuff to do differently, but you only have so much time, you prioritize, and you have to make all new maps/strat layer, arrows, etc. which takes a LOT of time.  Also, c'mon... really?  That's a level of detail that just isn't going to rise to the top when you have hundreds of hours of mapmaking/coding to do along with all new vehicle graphics, and the countless hours that went into the new explosion graphics...  Just Conrad and I working on these things!
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pvt_Grunt

Rep: 98.5
votes: 5


PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:08 am Post subject: Re: Let's make a mod :) Reply with quote

Cathartes wrote (View Post):
If we had permission, money, and time, sure... there would be a lot of fun stuff to do differently, but you only have so much time, you prioritize, and you have to make all new maps/strat layer, arrows, etc. which takes a LOT of time.  Also, c'mon... really?  That's a level of detail that just isn't going to rise to the top when you have hundreds of hours of mapmaking/coding to do along with all new vehicle graphics, and the countless hours that went into the new explosion graphics...  Just Conrad and I working on these things!


OK, but what did you do AFTER lunch?  Wink
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:55 am Post subject: Re: Let's make a mod :) Reply with quote

I don't really like to make a full log of changes but I know it's good to show the amount of work Smile.

So there is list of main changes in weapons:

1) HE grenades (generic) - accuracy decreased by 37%, kill rating (KR) increased by 37% (from 8mm to 11mm).
2) Explosives (throwed) - RoF increased from 10s to 6s, flying time decreased from 5s to 4s, KR decreased from 100mm to 60mm.
3) 2-inch bomb thrower (tank) - RoF increased from 12s to 6s, max range increased from 30m to 137m.
4) .38 Cal. Enfield No2 Mk.I - RoF increased from 0,2s a shot to 0,4s a shot, reloading speed decreased from 8s to 30s, accuracy decreased from 75% to 20%, max range decreased from 50m to 40m, caliber changed from 11mm to 9mm, KR changed from 2/2/2/2mm  to 6/5/4/2mm (PB/Close/Medium/Long range)  
5) .303 Cal. SMLE No.4 Mk.I - RoF decreased from 0,4/s to 1,5s/s, reloading decreased from 8s to 11s, accuracy decreased from 90% to 55%, max range decreased from 500m to 400m, KR from 8/8/6/5 to 9/8/7/4.
6) Added Panzerwurminen (kurz) - AT grenade.
7) Added 4" smoke discharger - smoke discharging cups on early production Shermans/Stuarts/ACs.
Cool Mills bomb (board) - grenade that is used by open-top vehicles crew for self defence.
9) .303 Cal. No.4 Mk.I (T)  - reload decreased from 10s to 11s, cooldown (to adjust aim) changed from 0,5s to 3s, set up time increased from 0s to 2s, max range increased from 800m to 1000m, KR changed from 9/8/7/4 to 15/15/15/2.
10) Added 37-mm M5 L/50 for Stuart III and Humber IV (lower RoF and KR than M6).
11) 9mm STEN Mk.II - quality decreased from 90+% to 30%, accuracy changed from 80% to 40%, max range increased from 100m to 110m, KR changed from 2/2/2/2 to 6/6/5/4.
12) .303 Cal. BREN Mk.II - RoF decreased from 0,2s to 0,4s, reloading increased from 8s to 5s, set up time increased from 1s to 3s, accuracy decreased from 85% to 65%, max range decreased from 800m to 600m, KR changed from 9/8/6/4 to 9/8/6/3.
13) Added 17-pdr Mk.V L/55 for M10C (lower RoF than MkI but better than MkV).
14) .303 Cal. Vickers Mk.I - RoF increased from 0,4s to 0,2s, reloading changed from 15s to 6s, set up time changed from 10s to 30s, rounds in burst changed from 6 to 5, accuracy changed from 85% to 82%, max range decreased from 1200m to 1000m, KR from 9/8/4/2 to 9/8/6/3.
15) 83-mm PIAT - RoF from 10s to 30s, set up time decreased from 5s to 3s, min range from 8m to 10m, accuracy from 90% to 30%, max range from 110m to 85m, KR from 102mm to 95mm.
16) 37-mm M6 L/50 - accuracy AP from 90% to 87%, KR AP from 78/69/64/59 to 64/56/50/37, added cannister shot with max range of 150m.
17) 6-pdr Mk.IV L/50 (ATG) - RoF from 4s to 5s, KR AP from 115/99/92/82 to 110/104/100/82. APDS (SP) accuracy from 85% to 50%, KR APDS from 177/156/147/123 to 139/120/120/120.
1Cool 6-pdr Mk.V L/50 (tank) - RoF from 4s to 5,5s, KR AP from 115/99/92/82 to 110/104/100/82. APDS (SP) accuracy from 85% to 50%, KR APDS from 177/156/147/123 to 139/120/120/120.
19) 75-mm M3 L/40 - RoF from 8s to 7,5s, KR AP from 102/85/78/70 to 84/77/72/70 for AP shot and added APC shot (SP) with 95/90/88/73.
20) 17-pdr Mk.IV L/55 (Firefly) - RoF from 8s to 10s, KR AP from 174/152/143/120 to 153/141/131/109. Added APCBC shot (SP) 143/140/137/129.
21) 17-pdr Mk.I L/55 (ATG) - RoF from 8s to 7,5s, KR AP from 174/152/143/120 to 153/141/131/109. Added APCBC shot (SP) 143/140/137/129.
22) 3-inch M7 L/50 - RoF from 8s to 7s, KR AP from 124/118/98/88 to 122/110/102/81.
23) 95-mm Mk.I - RoF from 15s to 13s, caliber from 105mm to 95mm, KR HEAT from 128 to 95mm.
24) 75mm OQF Mk.V L/37 - RoF from 8s to 7,6s, KR AP from 102/85/78/70 to 93/83/76/57.

That's all for the brits for now.
Huh it's so boring to make such a list - even more boring than editing data cells Wink.
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Cathartes

Rep: 101.3
votes: 15


PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:53 pm Post subject: Re: Let's make a mod :) Reply with quote

there are things that the CC engine does that if you put "historical" data in, it will do strange things, so be aware that if you just look at this from a data perspective and don't take in the big picture, you may break or throw as many things off as you intend to fix.  

a lot of questionable/debatable changes here if you are basing this on historical fidelity... but well done on posting them!
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:00 pm Post subject: Re: Let's make a mod :) Reply with quote

Cathartes wrote (View Post):
there are things that the CC engine does that if you put "historical" data in, it will do strange things, so be aware that if you just look at this from a data perspective and don't take in the big picture, you may break or throw as many things off as you intend to fix.

thanks for mentioning but that's not my first mod Wink  

Quote:
a lot of questionable/debatable changes here if you are basing this on historical fidelity... but well done on posting them!

want to debate? can prove all of them Wink.
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: Let's make a mod :) Reply with quote

Now the German weapons:

1) 9mm Pistole 38 - RoF from 0,4 to 0,2s a shot, reloading from 10s to 4s, accuracy from 75% to 40%, max range from 50 to 40m, KR from 3/3/3/3 to 6/5/4/2.
2) 7.92mm Karabiner 98k - RoF from 1,5s to 2,2s, reloading from 10s to 8s, accuracy from 90% to 60%, max range from 500m to 400m, KR from 8/8/6/5 to 8/7/5/3.
3) 3cm Schie?becher - was K98k with SB, now just SB with it's own data.
4) 7.92mm Karabiner 98-ZF41 - RoF from 1,5s to 2,2s, reloading from 10s to 8s, set up time from 0s to 3s, adjusting aim time after shot from 0,5s to 3s, accuracy from 90% to 70%, max range from 800m to 1000m, KR from 8/8/6/5 to 15/15/15/15.
5) Added 3cm GrPzb?chse 39 (with HEAT and HE ammo).
6) Added 9.1cm Nebelwurfgerat - smoke cups used on the German tanks that time.
7) Removed Karabiner 43 - not used that time by these units in Normandy.
Cool Removed Karabiner 43-ZF4 - not used that time by these units in Normandy.
9) 9mm MP.40 - reloading from 10s to 7s, mag capacity from 28rnds to 30rnds, accuracy from 80% to 50%, KR from 3/3/3/3 to 6/6/5/3.
10) Removed 7.92mm MP.43 - not used that time by these units in Normandy.
11) 7.92mm le.MG.34 - cooldown after each burst from 0,3s to 0,6s, reloading changed from 5s to 14s simulating changing of barrel after 350 shots (was after 50 shots), rounds in burst changed from 5 to 7, accuracy changed from 80% to 55%, max range decreased from 1000m to 600m, KR from 8/8/4/3 to 8/7/5/3.
12) 7.92mm s.MG.34 - cooldown after each burst from 0,3s to 0,1s, reloading changed from 10s to 9s simulating changing of barrel after 300 shots (was after 250 shots), set up time from 30s to 40s, rounds in burst changed from 5 to 9, accuracy changed from 85% to 80%, max range decreased from 1200m to 1000m, KR from 8/8/4/2 to 8/7/6/3.
13) 7.92mm le.MG.42 - cooldown after each burst from 0,2s to 0,7s, reloading changed from 50s to 120s simulating changing of barrel after 230 shots (was after 250 shots), set up time from 6s to 5s, rounds in burst changed from 8 to 9, accuracy changed from 80% to 65%, max range decreased from 1000m to 600m, KR from 9/8/4/3 to 8/7/6/3.
14) 7.92mm s.MG.42 - cooldown after each burst from 0,2s to 0,1s, reloading changed from 10s to 9s simulating changing of barrel after 250 shots (was after 250 shots), rounds in burst changed from 8 to 11, accuracy changed from 85% to 70%, max range decreased from 1200m to 1000m, KR from 9/8/4/2 to 8/7/5/3.
15) Removed 8.8cm Raketenpanzerb?chse 54 - not used that time by these units in Normandy.
16) 15cm Panzerfaust 30 - reloading from 10s to 4s, set up time from 5s to 4,5s, accuracy from 90% to 80%, max range from 30m to 35m, KR from 200mm to 120mm.
17) Added 7.92mm Gewehr 41 - semi-auto rifle used by these units that time.
1Cool Removed PzF (klein) - was mainly distributed between Infantry units.
19) 2cm L/112 (flak) - KR AP from 45/34/29/24 to 40/31/23/14.
20) 8.8cm L/56 (flak) - RoF from 5s to 4,5s, accuracy from 90% to 99%, KR AP from 162/143/132/113 to 160/134/128/116.
21) 3.7cm PaK36 L/46 (HTs) - RoF from 2,0 to 2,5s, accuracy from 90% to 87%, KR AP from 49/39/35/28 to 41/37/34/26. Added APCR (SP) shells with 70/55/49/36.
22) 7.5cm L/46 (ATG) - RoF from 8s to 6s, accuracy from 90% to 99%, KR AP from 146/128/117/99 to 123/116/112/94.
23) 7.5cm L/12 (IG) - RoF from 15s to 7s, KR HEAT from 88 to 95mm.
24) 10.5cm leFH 18 L/28 (StuH39) - RoF from 15s to 27,5s, KR HEAT from 104 to 120mm.
25) 15cm L/11 (IG) - KR HEAT from 185 to 160mm.
26) 1.4cm Flammenwerfer - max range from 30m to 40m, KR FT from 125/100/80/60 to 30/30/30/30.
27) 2cm KwK38 L/55 - accuracy from 90% to 75%, KR AP from 45/34/29/24 to 23/21/16/12.
2Cool 7.5cm KwK40 L/48 - RoF from 8s to 8,6s, accuracy from 90% to 100%, KR AP from 135/119/108/91 to 123/116/104/94.
29) 7.5cm KwK42 L/70 - RoF from 8s to 11,1s, accuracy from 90% to 100%, KR AP from 185/152/135/107 to 160/150/144/129.
30) 8.8cm KwK36 L/56 (Tiger) - RoF from 5s to 10,5s, accuracy from 90% to 99%, KR AP from 162/143/132/113 to 160/134/128/116.

Ok, that's for german weapons by now.
Vehicles next.
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Cathartes

Rep: 101.3
votes: 15


PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:09 pm Post subject: Re: Let's make a mod :) Reply with quote

Quote:
want to debate? can prove all of them Wink.


You can't "prove" very much. You have arguments (so does everyone) but much of your "proof" is based on very limited data and a narrow interpretation of specific aspects of that data. Your assertions on APDS accuracy is just one example.  

It's your mod with your interpretations, and that's great.
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:20 pm Post subject: Re: Let's make a mod :) Reply with quote

Quote:
You can't "prove" very much. You have arguments (so does everyone) but much of your "proof" is based on very limited data and a narrow interpretation of specific aspects of that data.

I can prove my points why I did that or that.
but I doubt you can have good arguments why for instance you used 174mm@100m for 17-pdr as there are number of test reports and vets evidences that state Panther glasic can't be penetrated by 17-pdr APCBC/APC shell at more than 300 yards Wink.

Quote:
Your assertions on APDS accuracy is just one example.  

that's funny, didn't you check the link i've sent to you today? Smile
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Troger

Rep: 17.5
votes: 2


PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 6:44 pm Post subject: Re: Let's make a mod :) Reply with quote

Dima wrote (View Post):

16) 15cm Panzerfaust 30 - reloading from 10s to 4s, set up time from 5s to 4,5s, accuracy from 90% to 80%, max range from 30m to 35m, KR from 200mm to 120mm.


Oh nooooooooo, it's even worse than it is currently Dima!  You have to test it in stock GTC, it's already wildly inaccurate at ranges under 15 meters.  

Can you please make ATGs and IGs movement faster?  I've never understood why they were given such insanely low movement speed.  I know you couldn't sprint with one but surely you could move one faster then what we see in CC.
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Troger

Rep: 17.5
votes: 2


PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 6:47 pm Post subject: Re: Let's make a mod :) Reply with quote

Dima wrote (View Post):

15) 83-mm PIAT - RoF from 10s to 30s, set up time decreased from 5s to 3s, min range from 8m to 10m, accuracy from 90% to 30%, max range from 110m to 85m, KR from 102mm to 95mm.


Good.  The PIAT currently has insanely fast reload speed, and seems a bit too powerful.
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stiener

Rep: 46.4
votes: 3


PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 7:42 pm Post subject: Re: Let's make a mod :) Reply with quote

interesting Dima.  Very Happy  id prefer the piat to be a little more accurate than it has been in all the other CC games. its been almost useless in most CC games to its inaccuracy IMO. going from 90% to 30% accuracy seems a bit much....50% might be better?


WHEN THE PIN IS PULLED "MR GRENADE"IS NOT OUR FRIEND !
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:08 pm Post subject: Re: Let's make a mod :) Reply with quote

stiener wrote (View Post):
interesting Dima.  Very Happy  id prefer the piat to be a little more accurate than it has been in all the other CC games. its been almost useless in most CC games to its inaccuracy IMO. going from 90% to 30% accuracy seems a bit much....50% might be better?

even if you set 1% in CC it will still hit, no worries Smile. let's first play-test this rebalance and then adjust what is neccessary.
FYI some info about PIAT perfromance Wink
Percentages of hits at different ranges were:
Target Less than 85 yards More than 85 yards
Crossing 70 48
Approaching 42 24
Receding 80 68
The effect of range on the percentage of hits is not very great; about two thirds as many shots hit
above 85 yards as below. It is certainly not possible to obtain a hit with certainty by waiting until the
tank is within say 70 yards. The reason for the unexpectedly poor performance at short ranges is
presumably the increase in angular movement of the target, combined, perhaps, with the 'sense of hurry'
already mentioned.
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:11 pm Post subject: Re: Let's make a mod :) Reply with quote

Troger wrote (View Post):

Oh nooooooooo, it's even worse than it is currently Dima!  You have to test it in stock GTC, it's already wildly inaccurate at ranges under 15 meters.

I believe that's hard-coded as well as guns. And to fix that we all need to beg Steve at matrix forum Wink.  

Quote:
Can you please make ATGs and IGs movement faster?  I've never understood why they were given such insanely low movement speed.  I know you couldn't sprint with one but surely you could move one faster then what we see in CC.

already made for IGs, pak40 f.e. is immobile - i've not posted all the changes as it would take a couple of pages Smile.
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