[sod98]

The Jews as a people bore the brunt of WW2. NOT the Russians, NOT the Poles, NOT ANYONE else. The Germans went onto a war of expansion and extermination, of the lesser races, but the Jewish people, as a whole, bore the brunt of the hatred. The Germans HAVE apologized for this, time and time again and still do to this day for the extermination camps and the evil that led up to it.

war reparitions

As for war reparations? The Jews STILL have never gotten the bulk of their belongings back. Records were destroyed in nazi Germany, which must have been shown in post WW2 western countries, or Germany to prove ownership of an item to return to it's rightful owner IF they had survived the war. Reparations? HAH! The consolation prize? A country.. Tiny, given begrudgingly, fighting them tooth and nail, every step of the way by England called Israel that they had to fight for the moment they set foot in it!

Just why do the Greeks need reparations, for giving pensions to government employees who thought they could retire at the age of 50?[/quote]


Russia lost far more than the Jews in numbers alone as some Russians were Jews for a starter. Jews were just an excuse to rally people against a race. Some of the wealthy US Industrialist who helped Nazi Germany were themselves Jews. The Jews never had a state at that time either. Per head of population they did lose more as a race along with Gypsies who were stateless to this day. Israel gifted as a state in 1947 to the Jews another story.

Greeks were owed reparations deemed by the world powers following WW2. This debt along with many others haven't been paid. We are now seeing Greece potentially refuse to pay back EU loans til that debt is paid. Greece was fleeced like Spain and Italy by Officials both Govt and EU. At the end of the day a debt still needs paying. Germany has come out of the war better off than alot of their victims through western help. Greece was given back to a dictator that was allied to Nazi Germany during the war by the West. Stalin kept his promise to keep out of Greece during the Communist uprising to which even Churchill agreed.

As for Merkels statement - talk is wind Jon Snow. Lets see the colour of her cash first.

[johnsilver]

[sod98]

That's another story.. German hard bullion and industry is about the only thing holding the EU together (monetarily) anyway. Anyone who thinks that the EU currency will last is in for it. Once they begin to wane, I have doubts, same about the future of a single government what is now US. Bold huh?

Too many hands wanting things for nothing, like Greece and too few willing to do what is required to get it in the 1st place. US has gotten like that also.[/quote]

Can't argue about Germany being the country holding the EU together. However this continued policy of Globalisation of Industry and Countries is doomed to fail. Every country has it's own culture, traditions and ways of doing things. To expect each country to maintain a GDP close to each others is unrealistic and therefore the stronger economies prosper while the more fragile continue to weaken. Just like certain parts of Germany are stronger economically than others. Part of the reason for Germany to dominate the rest of the EU. More Western countries suffer the same problem of sheltering those who can afford to pay more ( tax breaks, exemptions etc ) while the workers prop up the economy or just corrupt Govt's - as Greece and Italy recently have had. Greece still has the extremely wealthy with their Islands, yachts, mansions etc. Sadly they don't contribute to their country in the form of taxes. Some say they provide jobs and revenue that way but that to is flawed thinking. While a man earns 30,000 EU per year and pays tax while another earns millions and doesn't pay any tax the system will continue to flounder.

US Foreign Debt is a scary thing in it's self. Currently US FD is 102pc of their GDP. So they buy more than they sell - living beyond their means. Sorry to keep going back to Russia but theirs is 12pc of a much smaller GDP. Anyway you look at it, that foreign Debt needs to be paid some how one day.

[US_Brake]

I support Jerzy Bohdan Szumczyk.

Thank You for your art!

http://carolynyeager.net/russians-outraged-red-army-rape-sculpture

"In Russia, it’s taboo to discuss crimes committed by the former Soviet Union’s Red Army as it swept westward across Europe to conquer Nazi Germany. The “deeply outraged” Russian ambassador to Poland is demanding Warsaw make it taboo in his host country as well."

...Police removed the sculpture the following morning and, for a time, prosecutors considered a possible charge of inciting racial or national hatred, a conviction of which could carry a 2-year prison sentence.

http://www.wnd.com/2013/10/russia-bearish-on-wartime-rape-statue/

[sod98]

"In Russia, it’s taboo to discuss crimes committed by the former Soviet Union’s Red Army as it swept westward across Europe to conquer Nazi Germany. The “deeply outraged” Russian ambassador to Poland is demanding Warsaw make it taboo in his host country as well."

...Police removed the sculpture the following morning and, for a time, prosecutors considered a possible charge of inciting racial or national hatred, a conviction of which could carry a 2-year prison sentence.

I guess it would be like making a statue of US GI's shooting unarmed German prisoners, Kiwi soldiers in Nth Africa doing the same, Japs in China slaughtering the civilians or even Polish soldiers in German uniform burning homes. What purpose was the statue ever going to serve. Funny enough the Red Army was one of the few to execute soldiers who committed excesses. Maybe not to the extent they should have though. Undoubtedly they many war crimes have gone unpunished by all sides as the victors write the history and the losers suffer it. New Zealand sent their Officer home for killing unarmed German POW's. His held in high regards for his exploits by his Maori tribe.

[Dima]

[Dima]

[Dima]

[Dima]

[US_Brake]

Truth be known, drunk Russian soldiers (many of them teenagers)  had no ethical problems with committing mass rape of German civilians in 1945, in fact they enjoyed it. They did believe, it was their right as spoils of war they saw it as an appropriate celebration.

It must be difficult to be a Russian today and square this mass rape with history. The easy way to deal with it is to say it never happened, denial. But the problem remains, because mass rape did happen. When denial fails, one can always switch to blaming the victims or justify these crimes as spoils of war. Stalin was the role model for Soviet males. I would expect nothing less than murder, rape, looting and brute force from his army.

I am glad that after the Japanese surrender in 1945 the US Soldiers did not celebrate by raping thousands of Japanese women. That would have brought the same kind of shame on the US soldier as the Russians received after what they did in Germany.

[Dima]

[sod98]

I am glad that after the Japanese surrender in 1945 the US Soldiers did not celebrate by raping thousands of Japanese women. That would have brought the same kind of shame on the US soldier as the Russians received after what they did in Germany.[/quote]

The very low number of Japanese prisoners taken in the Pacific arena compared to that of mainland Asia against Russia suggests Historians could also draw conclusion that vast numbers of Japs prisoners were shot by Western Allied arnies out of hand. Also no evidence like the 100,000 rapes in Berlin.

[US_Brake]

A kamikaze pilot attempts to surrender to a US warship during the Battle of Leyte Gulf, October 1944.

[Dima]

[US_Brake]

We won't forgive, we won't forget

[mooxe]

I think everyone here understands atrocities were committed by all sides. In my opinion, it always seems like Russians are trying to downplay their role committing them by saying show me the proof. There really is no proof today that would hold up in court and we all know that. Is there an acceptable number that Russians would agree to? I guess Russians may be happy the number two million was chosen. Its so high and unbelievable that they can hide behind the lack of proof and pretend to be innocent of all of it.

[sod98]

[quote="mooxe";p="80492"]I think everyone here understands atrocities were committed by all sides. In my opinion, it always seems like Russians are trying to downplay their role committing them by saying show me the proof.

Show me the proof is simply because there is very little of it. Sadly straight after the war the Western Allies were planning to attack the USSR - Operation Unthinkable. The time was right for the West to alienate USSR with rumours and or exaggerated stories many of whom started by the Nazi's and heroed by the West - mass rapes by Russians upon the German populous. These scare tactics were on mass to stop the German Army from falling apart and fighting to the end as they did. Funny enough Germans Ministry for Propaganda in Berlin is now the site of the US Embassy.How fitting. Germans during the war and straight after kept the best records of everything often incriminating themselves for war crimes. But little evidence of Police complaints, Military and or hospital records of rape in Berlin to the figures provided - propaganda. The West has never spoken about it's executions.

Type in Allied WW2 war crimes and enough shows up to proof the victor writes the history and the loser has to suffer it ( even video clips of unarmed Axis soldiers being shot on surrendering. Sadly the West turned for no reason other than jealousy, paranoia and greed against the USSR.

I'm not a Russian but acknowledge the use of propaganda by the West since WW2 against many countries. This has often have lead the West down a slippery slope - WMD's in Iraq, Sarin Gas use by Assad and recently Iran helping the coup in Yemen.

[sod98]

2.

[Tejszd]

Disagree with you that west had no reason to turn against Russia.

The Russians were just as aggressive as the Germans were before the WW2 started. Ask Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Finland. Ask the poles in Eastern Poland which Russia took over "to protect them from the Germans".

Ask Bulgaria, Hungary, Poland, Romania, etc. after the war as they had puppet governments installed and were controlled/occupied by Russia. Compare that to Belgium, Greece, France, Holland, Italy, Norway, etc.


Going back to the original subject of Berlin rapes.

The Russians should acknowledge it. It should not have happened though I do not think any army can claim innocence to atrocities (murder, rape, etc.). Unfortunately when  leaders want soldiers to hate and kill each other..... The Eastern front seemed to have no rules and was much worse for atrocities than the Western front. Ultimately the hate the Russian leadership instilled in the troops to make them fight harder could not be reversed/turned off easily or quickly when they came into contact with German civilians.....

[sod98]

[quote="Tejszd";p="80503"]Disagree with you that west had no reason to turn against Russia.

So straight after a war that primarily USSR won on the Eastern Front. The West had every reason to look to invade them - come on. At that time USSR had kept every promise to the West. But the West had let them down by reneging on promised payts, Operation Unthinkable, Berlin Airlift lies etc. Remember post WW2 USA closed up Japan for it's self, GB Commonwealth went back into the colonies lost to dominate them again as did France.