[Stwa]

(to the spammers)

Thread was invisible for a while.

[Stwa]

So, as an alternative to using Panzer Corp as a front-end campaign game, maybe you could use TOAW instead.

It is not exactly WEGO either, but it rocks.

Maybe, you just skip the "tactical battles" too. Its just an abstraction, right?

[Stwa]

OMG, has this thread been abandoned.    

Some people (like McClaire) tried to implement some features into the CC series to slow down the arcade creep invading the CC series. One of the best features was instantly labeled "Girly Soldiers" by the community at large.

This situation became one of the most humorous arguments in the history of the franchise. Girly soldiers did alot to create parity between human players and thier AI opponent. Remember, at the time most human players were confessing that they wanted to only do single player.

So, Girly Soldiers created a situation were human players might not be able to run their soldiers all over the map. Or rush 10 teams of 7 soldiers each into a single house or structure. The problem was that if soldiers were fired upon, they might hit the dirt. In other words, they would stop running. And that was unacceptable to the community.

So, since the community mostly played against the AI, what they were really saying was, WE demand that we can CRUSH the AI by using the same tactics the Zulus used at Islanwandu. Never mind that the game is set in WW2.

So, the developers water down Girly Soldiers. Then, what does the community do?   They complain about the AI.  

[US_Brake]

Great observation Stwa. For COI I would prefer dropping "Girly Soldiers"

I much prefer the classic CC3 style. We played for years without this "feature" and the game was fine.  Now to have to constantly give repeated orders to every team over and over just to move a short distance. It gets annoying. I hate it most for H2H play when time is short and you just can't manage to give repeat orders to ever damn unit on the map every second of the game.  

[Stwa]

[Stwa]

[US_Brake]

I agree the psychological aspect of troop behavior built into the CC franchise makes the game really great.

It is however, really difficult to do a proper Banzai charge with "Girly Soldiers."

"Girly Soldiers" feature would work better for the overall game if the troops only took cover when a team member was hit or killed while moving (not just fired upon). Soldier have to move under fire and they often prefer to take the chance and continue running while under fire to reach better cover than to lay down in an exposed position that spells doom.

The psychological aspect of troop behavior was also originally intended to be balanced. Some behavior was supposed to help the player win the battle.

[US_Brake]

I am fortunate as a CC3/COI  player to have good time options. CC3/COI gives the option of no time limit or 1-99 minutes.

[Stwa]

[US_Brake]

Interesting point Stwa. I will have to pay closer attention and see how my experienced troops are moving under fire. Most of the troops I have been using for testing ops are low quality reg teams that take cover when the wind blows.

[Stwa]

I will be very interested in your conclusions. When you start your charge off (100 meters away), then everyone usually stands up and gets going, but as you close (50 meters away) troops may hit the dirt, and I do like you. I repeat the order. You can test this on Dog Green.

Me thinks, the AI orders detected troops to go belly down, and then crawl toward the objective. Which is smart, but not much fun for the defender. The cover attirbutes in Reg CCMT would have some troops crawling undetected to within 5 meters of a defended position, usually in sand. Go figure. So, even I changed this attribute for sand. It was even bad using high grass in WW2 maps, where to discover the locations of these prone enemies, I would have to drive a tank over the area in which they were hidden. That seemed silly.

[Stwa]

Ok, the charge is off. The Germans are freaked.

I rubber banded 2 units at the top of the map and repeated the "Move Fast" order. So, I repeated the order ONLY one time.  

[Stwa]

Notice most everyone makes it to the sea wall or very close to it. Of the teams at the bottom of the map, all of them make it to the seawall. The teams in the middle of the map, made it about half way.

[Stwa]

You can even make this assault using nothing but tanks. The Germans do have a pair of AT guns.

The only thing bad that happens is a few tanks report that "cant reach target" but that is because they were deployed with a tank trap directly to their front. So, a few of those tanks were wasted by the AT guns.

[Stwa]

The tanks are off and moving. The tank traps do cause a few problems for some of them. But I didn't notice any messages that the tanks were taking cover from enemy fire.

[Stwa]

The tanks have the Germans squeeling for a truce. I have ordered a few tanks into the beach exit. Notice that there was NO crawl of death and NO pathing issues in this scenario.

[DAK_Legion]

Whit all mods do you have the same result Stwa????

have you try whit other mods??

[Stwa]

I have only used CCMT stuff, and I am not sure what other mods you are thinking about. Apart from a few map mods I did using Mafi's 5CC, all I became over the years was just a maker of icons. It is sad, but true.

But what Brake is talking about does happen during the infantry charge. It happens several times as each unit messages that they are aborting their re-deployment (the Move Fast order). But since I am charging all units, the Germans cant stop all of them, so the mass charge proceeds until they can close with the German infantry.

Check out another charge. If you look close, you will notice the American force morale declining, but me thinks this is due to fatique more than casualties.

[Stwa]

Here I demonstrate the "crawl of death". I covered this extensively in a huge thread I worked on many years ago.

In this match I only crawl with my infantry. I am commanding the Germans. But notice the Germans are not taking hardly any casualties when they crawl. Why? Because they are not crawling one unit after another, toward a predictable region of the map, like a victory location.

Now, check out the Americans on the roads south of Baugnez. They have been running and crawling but also getting wasted as they move along each road. So, why are the Americans getting wasted? Because I have played this scenario before, many times, and the Americans usually move to Baugnez using these roads. So I have placed a tank just north of the village and it is wasting everyone.

[DAK_Legion]

I said that this aspects of soldier appeare for example in cc2redux stwa??