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Uberdave

Rep: 26.9


PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 3:36 pm Post subject: CC5 Ebro: My thoughts, review, etc Reply with quote

(It should be NOTED that I finished the Allied GC on CLASSIC CC5 back in October 2015, as the mod had not yet been ported to CCTLD.  The review is quite late, but pertinent...)

Intro:
Initially looks like a sloppy homework assignment, but will grow on you as play. I knew next to nothing about the Spanish Civil War, but was quite educated on the topic after completing the mod. It's a nice surprise among the lesser-known mods for CC5 (now CC TLD as well). Educational. Interesting diversity of units. 1930s tech vehicles and weapons! Great slugfests between infantry and guns on maps like 'Cuatro Cominos' and others...takes you back to the good 'ol inf vs inf feel that CC was famous for! However, the overall experience is spoiled by lazy graphics, GUI, poor historical research, and a unfinished feel.

I completed a Total Victory as the Republicans (Allies) on the 2pm turn of the 21st (see pics below)

Likes:
-Nicely done meeting engagement screen; one of the best!
-Interesting flags
-Spanish voice set nice for future reference
-Some weap pics are outstanding: DP28, MP28, Mauser (EN), MN FA Astra, St Etienne, Lewis, etc
-Spanish ranks are nice, even if they retain white 'dusting' of pixels.  :/
-Some sounds are good: Hotchkiss HMG (1921?), MN rifles, Zb26 (sounds like Grease Gun), DP28 (less reverb, less RoF), FA Astra (MG34 from stock?), Lewis MG (like a Vickers)
-Hats on unifmormed officers were a great touch (except for snow)
-HILARIOUS: One name in list is 'Farto'...lol!
-Some BW unit pics look nice!
-As a huge fan of interwar mods, I like the 1930s technology and how it balances gameplay
-Most BGs have large infantry:vehicle ratios (inf-heavy!!)
-Low-tech battles on rough terrain and lack of cover! Morale is used interestingly by game engine
-strong infantry and artillery battles; again, armor is largely absent!
-Some vehicle graphics look excellent. Ex: Bt-5 tank
-house:house fighting in Gandesa was brutal!
-Troops made good use of molotovs in close combat (house:house) fighting
-Lots of guns in this mod. Effective use of guns and artillery often determine the winner.
-AI used guns effectively at times. Lost 7x tanks (BT5/T26) in one battle to 2x EPR 75/28 Schneider guns (one of which had 6x kills credited!). On an other occasion, I lost 8x tanks to another 75/28 ATG.


Observations:
-Minor mispellings in English on debrief screen
-Weapon graphics: mostly poor, rough, unfinished look
-Some rank pics are missing, replaced with a single dot in the upper left corner. Needs rank mod to clarify!
-Some unit names are repetitive or non-descriptive. Many units are duplicated in FPools w/o any discernable traits/differences (ex= PzKpf.I Ausf A), etc
-EPR could not reinforce until pm turn of day 3 (16th) ????
-pistol (Star) sounds like a rifle
-37mm cannon on BA-6 too fast (RoF)
-Differences between Mauser rifles isn't clear
-Could create multi-ethnic names in a group in NAMES files (for international Brigades)
-Seems to have higher infantry to gun/vehicle ratios vs other mods (ex: 20 inf per gun/vehicle instead of 10:1)
-Schneider 70mm guns VERY effective vs all targets (too strong??)
-Gun weights not correct?  Ex: Soldier carrying Maxim 1910 MG sprinted (via 'move fast') for over 100m without becoming 'tired' (??)
-Many Republican soldiers did not have a rank graphic on 'Soldier' screen; it was simply left blank.
-No guns allowed in buildings, including the small 70mm IG
-As with Okinawa mod, the terrain heavily favors the defenders; especially since shading and elevation depiction is difficult to discern
-3rd Batn de la Victoria BG: EN Plana Major is duplicated in FPool w/o any noticeable difference
-Appears to be using old CC4 strat map as well as GUI(??...ugh)
-No FO units available w/heavy arty
-As the GC winded down and I was fighting to clear the western edge of strat map, battles became much more difficult; too bad they weren't more challenging earlier in the campaign (east edge and central parts)!
-Noticed that EPR commisars were best used in defensive actions, as they have an HMG to lug around, which slows their movement
-Medals; some seem redundant. May need to review for consistency. Ex:wound badge appears the same as the lowest badge awarded for bravery


Questions:
-Why do veteran infantry (ie, "Republican Vet Infantry") only have 'seen battle' as their status?? If they are veterans they should have more experience!
-on deploy screen, units still have the grey/green formula from CC4....er, update? do these accurately reflect the Nationalist/Republic colors?
-Why no 10-man teams on ENR?
-List of medals anywhere...had no clue what they were.
-Historical??  T26 had 1x MG w/6200 rnds?  Bt-5 had 2x MGs and no 45mm?
-Smoke grenades were apparently issued in large numbers. Is this historical?
-Is there a difference in caliber or strength of the arty support icons, as 2 identical pics are listed? (would be nice to differentiate)
-Soldier with Maxim MG in 'assault mode', firing and moving with the weapon - would only fire once and then alternate to the rifle(?)
-No rifle grenades noticed throughout GC. Were they not available to troops?
-Not sure of the differences between units (ex: Regular Harkas, Reg Mefadina-sp?) besides seemingly insignificant weapon differences
-T26 HQ tank lacking bow MG...I'm assuming this is due to the additional of radios for commander?
-Republican soldiers using scoped Mausers (German weapons)?
-Maxim MG is limited to 500m range? Seriously, WTF?
-Maxim MG carrier...does ammo amount influence the movement/running speed?
-No Brigade International (BI) Vickers MG teams?  Only among EPR (Republican) troops?
-Why no multi-national names.txt for the BI BGs?


Gripes:
-Fonts used are sloppy, ugly-looking. Jagged edges on words/etters. Makes the mod look cheap, contrived.
-Sloppy / LAZY GRAPHICS: BG labels "Republican Infantry battlegrouop" are on both sides; same BG Markers, GUI has rough edges, mismatching colors, mixed CC4/5 themes.
-Hand grenade still defaulting to stock explosion sound (duh)
-some weapon pics are just awful and skewed (M1 Thompson, ZB26?)
-Spanish voice files on both sides?  Annoying and repetitive. At least add some accent or spice to one side to tell the difference from each other! Next time I'll play with one side speaking English.
-Repubs have Poliukarpov I-16 - very sloppy/weak graphic
-Elevation on maps is often skewed (esp Sera de la Farella) and not realistic
-BA-6 graphic is frail, narrow, and pathetic looking.
-I-15 air strike was disappointing; could be more powerful
-Overview thumb pic of map on 'map detail' screen is still an old (stock?) copy
-Lack of 'pure' rifle squads among Nationalists; all variants had MP28 SMGs (imo, too many issued!)
-Sloppy elevation coding on many maps (Ex: A bunker's floor goes from 6.0 to 7.0 m on one map -- should be level!)


Bugs/Fixes:
-1x CTD when ordering a man to 'hide' after his morale was 'broken'
-1x CTD mid-battle, unknown cause - battle was proceeding well.
-On 'Cuatro Cominos' map, there is an extra VL flag on the map detail screen. However, when I later zoomed out in deployment phase, the south-central road did not have it visibly there(?)
-1x CTD when clicking the zoom out (-) button in deployment phase
-1x CTD when I clicked on T26 during deployment phase
-1x CTD when clicking on a BG MArker on strat map
(5x CTDs total)


GC / Best units:
Inf:     EPR Exploradores- 29k (red star w/ gold circle)
Sniper:  9k
Gun:     70mm Schnieder- 6t, 6k (medals? - see pic below)
vehicle: BA-6 - 36k (2x red star w/ gold circle)


Conclusion:
A nice infantry-centric mod covering a conflict that continues to lack an appropriate focus among wargamers. However, much of the mod feels unrefined, thrown together in a hurried manner, and/or simply lazy on the part of its creator. Many maps have potential for great battles, yet appear rushed and hurried, lacking mundane things like variation instead repetitive cut/paste art work and textures. Many maps lack appropriate shading/shadows and have poor elevation depiction (see pic below). Although there is a nice variety of infantry and other units available, there is little in the way of descriptions that help understand. IIRC, the readme file was only in Spanish. Seems like the mod-maker was being passive-aggressive and immature about his work being enjoyed by English-speaking people (you know, the ones that created the game to being with!).

Although I won't go so far to say that it's "unfinished", more work could obviously be put into this mod...resulting in a more refined, satisfying gaming experience.  Unfortunately, this particular mod creator is unlikely to admit to such things or improve the concept based on community feedback.

2.5/5



Ebro-GC (11).jpg
 Description:
GC end
 Filesize:  170.98 KB
 Viewed:  10980 Time(s)

Ebro-GC (11).jpg




Last edited by Uberdave on Thu May 19, 2016 3:55 pm; edited 5 times in total
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Uberdave

Rep: 26.9


PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: CC5 Ebro: My thoughts, review, etc Reply with quote

...


Ebro-GC-BestATG-Schniedier.jpg
 Description:
best ATG
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Ebro-GC-BestATG-Schniedier.jpg


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Uberdave

Rep: 26.9


PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: CC5 Ebro: My thoughts, review, etc Reply with quote

Screwed up deployment zones!!!


Ebro-GC (1).jpg
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Wtf
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Ebro-GC (1).jpg


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Uberdave

Rep: 26.9


PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 3:46 pm Post subject: Re: CC5 Ebro: My thoughts, review, etc Reply with quote

Poor shading on maps that appear rough and hurried.  Can you tell that this is a slope??


Ebro-GC (3).jpg
 Description:
shade?
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Ebro-GC (3).jpg


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diggin.robat

Rep: 39.7
votes: 2


PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:26 pm Post subject: Re: CC5 Ebro: My thoughts, review, etc Reply with quote

Very comprehensive study of an impressive mod, Überdave. I came to similar conclusions, then and already had plans to make an overhaul together with Ifni. At first we got green light from Firefox which he refused shortly afterwards, so we gave it up frustrate and faced RL again...
But that mod definately need some more attention as it really stands out of the usual mod mainstream. A port to TLD would do good, but who would take up this big work?

cheers

diggin


GW modding team
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DAK_Legion

Rep: 86.3
votes: 20


PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 7:51 pm Post subject: Re: CC5 Ebro: My thoughts, review, etc Reply with quote

I made with firefox a long ago...

http://www.moddb.com/mods/close-combat-tld-ebro-mod/downloads/close-combat-tld-la-batalla-del-ebro-mod-10
 

Enjoy[quote][spoil]


heia Safari!!
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diggin.robat

Rep: 39.7
votes: 2


PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:32 pm Post subject: Re: CC5 Ebro: My thoughts, review, etc Reply with quote

Oh, I missed that... Will check it now!


GW modding team
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Uberdave

Rep: 26.9


PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 11:05 pm Post subject: Re: CC5 Ebro: My thoughts, review, etc Reply with quote

Yes, I know it was already ported to TLD.  I played the CC classic version before the new TLD version was released.  Hopefully some of my gripes were addressed, because I'd like to play it again. Good concept, mediocre execution.

@ Diggin - I agree. It needs to be refined, but the author is notorious for his stubborn attitude.
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diggin.robat

Rep: 39.7
votes: 2


PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: CC5 Ebro: My thoughts, review, etc Reply with quote

Hmm, somehow I can´t install the TLD mod. The installer does not recognize the original TLD .exe. Any ideas?


GW modding team
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diggin.robat

Rep: 39.7
votes: 2


PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:01 am Post subject: Re: CC5 Ebro: My thoughts, review, etc Reply with quote

solved!


GW modding team
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Nomada_Firefox

Rep: 32.9
votes: 9


PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:55 am Post subject: Re: CC5 Ebro: My thoughts, review, etc Reply with quote

Uberdave wrote (View Post):
Yes, I know it was already ported to TLD.  I played the CC classic version before the new TLD version was released.  Hopefully some of my gripes were addressed, because I'd like to play it again. Good concept, mediocre execution.

@ Diggin - I agree. It needs to be refined, but the author is notorious for his stubborn attitude.

4 years making the mod for read this................this is the reason because I do not make more mods for the old CC games.....

But you could refine it by yourself. However, it is clear how you can not and you waste your time launching insults and lacks of respect agains the people which we make the mods freely.Wink
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Ernie_M

Rep: 37.4


PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:32 pm Post subject: Re: CC5 Ebro: My thoughts, review, etc Reply with quote

What the Hell did he say? Confused
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mooxe

Rep: 172.8
votes: 23


PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:58 am Post subject: Re: CC5 Ebro: My thoughts, review, etc Reply with quote

Keep it constructive. Lots of personalities and languages here. The golden rule though is to not hold people accountable for free labour.
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Uberdave

Rep: 26.9


PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 6:43 am Post subject: Re: CC5 Ebro: My thoughts, review, etc Reply with quote

Nomada-  Four years and it still looks unfinished? Sounds like a lot of time wasted. Sorry, but your self-righteous indignation doesn't change my thoughts. And I could care less if you ever touch another CC game again in your life.

If you can't handle constructive criticism, then don't expect too much love from me or most of the community. But we talked about this 12 or 13 years ago. It apparently went over your head, and still does. Maybe it's a language barrier. Or maybe it's just your shit attitude and rigid arrogance.

I for one don't miss your "mods". I took a risk even taking the time to play and review Ebro, as I know how sensitive you are to people saying anything except "It's great!".  Star Wars? Nope. Those half-baked conversions of CC2 and CC4? Nope. Men carrying 100 lb MGs sprinting faster than others across maps and firing at the same time with a rifle on terrain that is a mess of copied and pasted textures with little or no discernable elevation shading isn't the 'Close Combat' I know and love.  Your mods are based on your own sense of fantasy and arcade-like gameplay. I tend to like serious artistry and work that produces something sleek and enduring. Like Bloody Omaha, GJS, Afrika 40-41, and the new Tunisia mod. Have you played any of those to see what you are missing, or to even learn from them to improve your skills?

If you want to see an example of my work, take a look at CC5 KG.  It is unfinished and far from perfect. But it may educate you on how to make GUI graphics that look decent, data that is cogent, text that is readable, fonts that are actually aligned, original sounds, custom voices, and homemade vehicles. I love CC and will review any mod people put out there. I will also give my reviews, citing what I think is the positive and the negative. I don't care if you like it or not.

We clearly have different modding philosophies. To address Mooxe's post, I do understand that people put 'free labor' into these creations. I've spent an inordinate amount of my own time working on my own projects, not to mention taking notes and providing constructive reviews of the many mods here on this site and in the community. I will also continue to work on stuff, including interwar mods covering the Italian invasion of Ethiopia 35/36 and the Pacific-focused 'Avengers of Bataan / Liberation of Manila' in '45. I prefer to do lots of research and strive for historical accuracy. And I welcome comprehensive criticism of my own work...even though there are only a few persons like myself that even take the time to provide that 'free labor' in the first place.

If I wanted my work to look like shitty arcade games from a third world country, I could've finished them all already.
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