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TRIVIA: Are soldiers credited for killing surrendered troops?

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Sapa

Rep: 64.1
votes: 8


PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:34 am Post subject: Bleimeyers last battle Reply with quote

He was killed on the afternoon September 18 1944 at Hatert Bridge The Netherlands... after fighting of the 508PIR / 82AB for 24 hours.... Crying or Very sad


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JFFulcrum

Rep: 46.1


PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:37 pm Post subject: Re: Bleimeyers last battle Reply with quote

That guys really hates Allies
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ScnelleMeyer

Rep: 135.4
votes: 9


PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:18 pm Post subject: Re: Bleimeyers last battle Reply with quote

JFFulcrum - Soldier killing each others are not the same as hating them. - Just saying - Its important.
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JFFulcrum

Rep: 46.1


PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:44 pm Post subject: Re: Bleimeyers last battle Reply with quote

ScnelleMeyer
I`m afraid that when soldiers do not just hate the enemy, things only get worse.
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ScnelleMeyer

Rep: 135.4
votes: 9


PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:16 pm Post subject: Re: Bleimeyers last battle Reply with quote

JFFulcrum wrote (View Post):
ScnelleMeyer
I`m afraid that when soldiers do not just hate the enemy, things only get worse.


The point is that its not "just hate" - The hate and dissociation being created or nutured by a government against an opponent invariably lead to warcrimes and other morbid crimes like your link shows. With the enemy de-humanized this road is very short.
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JFFulcrum

Rep: 46.1


PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:31 pm Post subject: Re: Bleimeyers last battle Reply with quote

ScnelleMeyer
Well, we have some misunderstanding. Hate is emotion about humans - your cannot hate an item or insentient creature. In Western front Germans hated Allies and vice versa, for many real reasons, that is normal for war, and the hate is the only fuel which powers soldiers to war for sustained periods of time. Troubles arise exactly when propaganda take step into de-humanization - when the enemies become presented as non-humans, insects, monkeys, stubs. That's when warcrimes become usual - when soldiers do not take up enemy as humans, like happend in Russian front or at Pacific.
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ScnelleMeyer

Rep: 135.4
votes: 9


PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:54 am Post subject: Re: Bleimeyers last battle Reply with quote

JFFulcrum it seems we disagree on some parts of this topic. Its OK with me -I have been a soldier for 21 years and I have thought this through a few times.
It seems we agree that de-humanization by propaganda is a big problem.

Hate comes from fear - Its just a reaction to fear.
You say Germans hated Allies on western front and vice versa - I take it you mean WW1? - I dont believe its that simple, but it is possible if talking about ww1. For ww2 i cant agree. Anyway, this hate is not what is wanted for reasons I stated in my last post. The best thing is to fight with a neutral mind.

Quote:
the hate is the only fuel which powers soldiers to war for sustained periods of time.

Do you think what kept the German army fighting untill May 1945,or US soldiers in Iraq/Afgh for 15yrs is fueled by hate? - I dont, and I dont recall reading any soldiers account from any war that put an emphasis on their hate for the enemy. On the contrary its love for ones fellow comrades and fear of letting them down that keeps you in the fight.
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HansVonWitzland

Rep: 7.6


PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:03 pm Post subject: Re: Bleimeyers last battle Reply with quote

Sapa wrote (View Post):
He was killed on the afternoon September 18 1944 at Hatert Bridge The Netherlands... after fighting of the 508PIR / 82AB for 24 hours.... Crying or Very sad


Hello! Sapa, 508PIR / 82AB suffered indeed many casualties trying to take that bridge, that show what a MGteam can do placed in the right position they can make a very strong defense.
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JFFulcrum

Rep: 46.1


PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: Bleimeyers last battle Reply with quote

ScnelleMeyer wrote (View Post):
Do you think what kept the German army fighting untill May 1945,or US soldiers in Iraq/Afgh for 15yrs is fueled by hate?


You underestimate the importance of hate in war. In case of Russian front Germans (thanks to Goebbels propaganda) do not treat soviets as human enemy - they just did the job (of cleaning the lands for Great Germany). That made troubles from begining - german army was not ready to proceed at any cost - so, where it was faced with comparable opponents, it quickly stops (near Murmans the front line was stalled at november 1941 and not changed for three years). When they lost any rational reasons to continue fight (the target obviously became beyond reach), their morale quickly detoriated (so was Stalingrad). The Soviet part from start made bet on hate (just take look at propoganda posters - belive me, their text is on par with images), so soviet soldiers was much more motivated to keep fight despite any conditions. Then, in 1944, when Soviet army goes to Europe, German part finally got the hate factor into account - their propaganda switched to same manner (using East Prussia cases - fairy tales about millions of raped german women starts there) and was authorized troops formed from western europe peoples (with already well-established hate against Soviets/Russian), so german army partially regain morale strength on Russian front - and in many times was able to stop Soviet offensives even while being outnumbered and outgunned.  

The same happend in Iraq case. US soldiers was just do their military job (well-payed, BTW), while iraq people had only hate against invaders. And in extended time terms the hate was more effective that professionalism - when losses become a serious trouble, Obama gives up and withdrew troops. Same shit in Afghanistan - first Britains, then Soviets, and, considering the latest news, US will soon goes out - and the lack of hate (partially as consequence of de-humanization of enemy - dont be surprised of often usage of Nazi symbols by US troops in Afghanistan, this similarity was not a coincidence).
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JFFulcrum

Rep: 46.1


PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:08 pm Post subject: Re: Bleimeyers last battle Reply with quote

is a main reason.
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ScnelleMeyer

Rep: 135.4
votes: 9


PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: Bleimeyers last battle Reply with quote

Anyway JFFulcrum, we are highjacking Sapas post here.

Quote:
He was killed on the afternoon September 18 1944 at Hatert Bridge The Netherlands... after fighting of the 508PIR / 82AB for 24 hours.... Crying or Very sad


What an exellent performance in just a few battles! I wonder what eventually did get to him?
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Sapa

Rep: 64.1
votes: 8


PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 2:45 pm Post subject: Re: Bleimeyers last battle Reply with quote

It was not my intention to start an discussion about hate....i think it is enough of that in the real world....
Just was proud of my excellence soldier in a computer game Wink

Greetings Mats
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