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Drizzt

Rep: 95.3
votes: 8


PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:43 pm Post subject: Working on TLD Kursk mod Reply with quote

Hi everyone,

I write this post to inform the community that I have started to work on TLD Kursk mod: it has been in my mind for many time, now I have started seriously the work. I will use this thread to ask help, if necessary.

Porting a mod requires many time. Porting an unfinished and never tested mod it requires more than many time.
The user Waldganger has started this project for CC5 many years ago: he has done a beautiful graphic work and he has created the mod Data, but his excellent work needs anyway a rework (it's normal: the mod it was a work in progress). For example, about forcepools, all Wehrmarcht forcepools are filled with SS units (same thing for the guards units in regular Russian battlegroups) : they must be totally remade. I will also add some BGs (for sure) and some teams (probably).

The mod it's focused on a specific portion of the south sector of the Kursk salient: the 4th Panzer Army faces the 6th Guards Army, some elements of 69 Army, the reserves of the Voronezh front (the real reserves of this front and the 1st Tank Army deployed deep) and later some of the best units of the Steppe front. I have already done a research work to rework forcepools in the best way possible.

About sounds: The main and most important sound.sfx file has been created by Waldganger: I will see if there will be some work to do on it, but it’s already made. All other sounds files are a secondary and easy thing.

About maps: there are at least 30 (CC3) kursk style custom maps that can be used in a very good way for this mod (I have already done this selection), and a “pool” of 20-25 possible maps to choose the remaining 14 maps. For sure, maps need a full BTD files work (not only a work to port them to TLD; this work is necessary in any case) and probably some work on .txt files and/or elements Data file.

I have already finished the porting work for CCImages.px file. Now I’m working on maps. I hope I will not find bugs and/or missing files in azp files (could be a real problem) and to work on this project with continuity.
That’s all for now.

Drizzt
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Zep

Rep: 38.2


PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:53 pm Post subject: Re: Working on TLD Kursk mod Reply with quote

Awesome...... Very Happy
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ringoblood

Rep: 0.9


PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:41 pm Post subject: Re: Working on TLD Kursk mod Reply with quote

Will this Mod be made for CoI too, or just CC3 or do i misunderstand that its a Mod for CC5? Thanks for much for you work Dizz.

Josh
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paratmar

Rep: 23.8


PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:51 am Post subject: Re: Working on TLD Kursk mod Reply with quote

God bless You!!! And I would help you to make VL on maps, for to help AI path the way correctly, Could you help me to make VL on maps? Many thanks)
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qwaqwe

Rep: 19.2


PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:51 pm Post subject: Re: Working on TLD Kursk mod Reply with quote

God bless you!  Very Happy

If you have 30 maps, you can do whole battle, not only the south sector  Very Happy
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Sequoia

Rep: 17.4
votes: 1


PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:09 am Post subject: Re: Working on TLD Kursk mod Reply with quote

Hello:

It's a great idea. Dou yo have the KOSAVE II stuff? It's an US Army 1998 study about the Operation Citadelle's south pincer. Contain useful data for wargaming the Army Group South attack.
You can find the in xls and doc format from http://www.vy75dial.pipex.com/data.html using the web. archve.org wayback machine, and In pdf file at https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a360311.pdf
Dou you know that the Soviet introduced new rank insignia in january 1943?
 
Bye.
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qwaqwe

Rep: 19.2


PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:31 pm Post subject: Re: Working on TLD Kursk mod Reply with quote

Suggestions:

1. Number of victory points should be small, 3 is enough. 5 should be maximum.

2. Please do german AI aggressive, attack and attack only.
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Drizzt

Rep: 95.3
votes: 8


PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:54 pm Post subject: Re: Working on TLD Kursk mod Reply with quote

ringoblood wrote (View Post):
Will this Mod be made for CoI too, or just CC3 or do i misunderstand that its a Mod for CC5? Thanks for much for you work Dizz.
Josh

The mod it’s for Close Combat The Longest Day (TLD), the remake of CC5. It can be also easily adapted for close combat Wach Am Rhein (WAR), the remake of CC4, so I will do also this version (WAR and TLD, with the last patches, are almost identical in their structure).

paratmar wrote (View Post):
God bless You!!! And I would help you to make VL on maps, for to help AI path the way correctly, Could you help me to make VL on maps? Many thanks)

No, thanks. I know how IA works:
- small/medium maps work better than big maps
- Vls, when possible, must be located in the center of the map and should be set as big
- Some columns in BGs Data can help (even if they are also influenced by X other variables)
I know these things and I try to follow them as much as possible, but, for gameplay reasons and maps design, not all the work can be done exactly in this way.

qwaqwe wrote (View Post):

God bless you!  Very Happy If you have 30 maps, you can do whole battle, not only the south sector  Very Happy

No: the strategic map cover the sector I have described. A full new work must be done to include the north sector (moreover, the more the combat area it's big, the less the work can be accurate).

Sequoia wrote (View Post):
Hello:
It's a great idea. Dou yo have the KOSAVE II stuff? It's an US Army 1998 study about the Operation Citadelle's south pincer. Contain useful data for wargaming the Army Group South attack.
You can find the in xls and doc format from http://www.vy75dial.pipex.com/data.html using the web. archve.org wayback machine, and In pdf file at https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a360311.pdf
Dou you know that the Soviet introduced new rank insignia in january 1943?
 
Bye.

Thanks for the link: I will take a look, but I had already collected a lot of data about this battle: some books (authors like Glantz) and some web professional info/pdf like the one you have linked. My knowledge of WW2 battles has grown with the age (I’m still in thirty, but I’m not so young anymore, Lol) : the mod will be solid about this point (even if not perfect, of course: some aspects of gameplay and the limited number of maps are issues always present). I don't knew about new ranks: I will work on them.

qwaqwe wrote (View Post):
Suggestions:
1. Number of victory points should be small, 3 is enough. 5 should be maximum.
2. Please do german AI aggressive, attack and attack only.

The use of 3-5 VLs (without to count the road links VLs), it's good for small/medium maps. Big maps can arrive to 7 or more: I don't want that BGs can be forced off the big maps too easily (anyway there aren't too many big maps in the mod). About german IA, I can't recode the game, but I can set BGs behavior (of course German Bgs will be all very aggressive, like the russian Bgs of the counterattack).
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qwaqwe

Rep: 19.2


PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:37 pm Post subject: Re: Working on TLD Kursk mod Reply with quote

How many time approximately work will take till beta?
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Schmal_Turm

Rep: 36.9
votes: 1


PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:28 pm Post subject: Re: Working on TLD Kursk mod Reply with quote

Always glad to hear of some new mod being developed and especially glad to see a version of Kursk. Keep up the good work and look forward to your creative work Drizzt.


"No plan ever survives first contact with the enemy." Moltke
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Drizzt

Rep: 95.3
votes: 8


PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:19 am Post subject: Re: Working on TLD Kursk mod Reply with quote

qwaqwe wrote (View Post):
How many time approximately work will take till beta?

In the last two weeks, I have done a decisive work about historical research and maps work, but there is still a lot of work to do.
I have already ported (from CC5 to TLD) some graphic work; some more will be ported, added, corrected or changed. Data must be checked/corrected/upgraded. There are also some technical aspects about Data and .azp files that must be checked/corrected to avoid “random” game crash. Sounds must be checked and probably upgraded. I will also create the music file, a video, and an “extra” folder with some details about this battle and the mod. Finally, I will create campaigns, ops and battles.  
In normal conditions, all the work it takes at least 8 months, but I have always worked on this kind of projects (game mods) in a short “focused” period (4-5 hours per day, 5 days per week) or nothing (I mean that I have never done a “long time” work). Of course, when I was more young it was less difficult to find these kind of periods. In this moment, I still have only two weeks to work on the mod in a focused way. My goal it’s to have a beta ready in no more than 2 months from now. If the beta will not be ready in 2 months, I simply don’t know how much time the work will need (another month like one year: who knows?).
I have written an exhaustive reply to avoid further questions about this point.  


Russian 1943 uniforms color question:
With the ranks, I have seen that in 1943 Russians have changed also the uniforms color. It’s brown, for what I have seen (the old one it was more green). The Russian Berlin mod uniforms color can be used also for 1943? I mean: the uniform color it has remained the same after 1943?
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qwaqwe

Rep: 19.2


PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:23 pm Post subject: Re: Working on TLD Kursk mod Reply with quote

As i known uniform color didn't change.

More green it when uniform is new, and when it faded it became more yellow.
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Drizzt

Rep: 95.3
votes: 8


PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:24 pm Post subject: Re: Working on TLD Kursk mod Reply with quote

qwaqwe wrote (View Post):
As i known uniform color didn't change.

More green it when uniform is new, and when it faded it became more yellow.

Yes, I suppose you are right. I don't have found info about an uniform change. Probably the "green" of the uniform it's a particular kind of khaki color, so uniform conditions have the role you have mentioned (anyway, for what I have seen, the dark khaki it's similar to green; the standard khaki it's instead more similar to brown).




NKVD in Red Army Divisions question
I know they "rearguard" both regular and penal battalions to prevent the retreat, but: they have fought at Kursk? In desperate situations like the urban fight in Stalingrad yes, but in 1943 at Kursk they have fought? I don't mean the cases like the 52nd Guards Rifle division (composed by units that were previously NKVD), I mean NKVD staff in the divisions.

A similar question about the militia:
no regular units were used in 1943 inside soviet divisions to fill infantry ranks? (maybe unofficially?)
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qwaqwe

Rep: 19.2


PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:40 am Post subject: Re: Working on TLD Kursk mod Reply with quote

No NKVD and no militia.

Penal battalion yes - 8th separate penal batallion. Also 132 rifle division and 140 rifle division had 1 penal company per division.
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qwaqwe

Rep: 19.2


PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:47 pm Post subject: Re: Working on TLD Kursk mod Reply with quote

Update: according to Stalin order 227 every Army has some penal companies (max. 10).
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Sequoia

Rep: 17.4
votes: 1


PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:05 am Post subject: Re: Working on TLD Kursk mod Reply with quote

Hello:


About the uniforms, the soviet soldiers in the frontline wore summer field uniforms (cotton) or winter uniforms (woollen) in khaki colour. The shirts and trousers in summer are more prone to fade due exposure to sunlight. Plus variations in dyes used. Red Army swapped from winter to summer clothes in May.
The most important changes in the uniform were in the gymnastiorka (shirt) in January 1943, from folded open collar to high collar and the addition of shoulder boards where the new rank insignia were placed (to olders were in the collar).

Bye
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Drizzt

Rep: 95.3
votes: 8


PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:55 pm Post subject: Re: Working on TLD Kursk mod Reply with quote

qwaqwe wrote (View Post):
No NKVD and no militia. Penal battalion yes - 8th separate penal batallion. Also 132 rifle division and 140 rifle division had 1 penal company per division.

Thanks for the help. I have found info about a penal battalion deployed as first unit in the front line near Lukhanino. Anyway, my way of think about them was (and is) like the one of the order n. 227 you have reported. I mean I will put some of them in some RA regiments (no more than one time per division). I read they were commanded by regular officers and at least one (minimum one ) political commissar (NKVD? Only sometime, for what I have read). Not sure if it has sense a slot for NKVD leaders team: maybe I will put some of them (I mean only inside BGs with penal rifle squads) if I have a free slot for them.

More in general: due to the (logic in this kind of game) limitations about number of BGs (I have already increased the number of Bgs to the maximum: they were 54, now they are 64), some (or many: I will see) Bgs will have the final slots filled with units that can’t be represented in the game. For example, one regiment of 67th GRD will have at disposal the Grant tanks of the 245th tank regiment.


Sequoia wrote (View Post):
About the uniforms, the soviet soldiers in the frontline wore summer field uniforms (cotton) or winter uniforms (woollen) in khaki colour. The shirts and trousers in summer are more prone to fade due exposure to sunlight. Plus variations in dyes used. Red Army swapped from winter to summer clothes in May.
The most important changes in the uniform were in the gymnastiorka (shirt) in January 1943, from folded open collar to high collar and the addition of shoulder boards where the new rank insignia were placed (to olders were in the collar).

Yes, thanks, I have seen them in the web. Job already done. First five ranks were simple, the last five more difficult (micro stars and micro strips on the strap shoulders were very difficult to paint): without a 4000 DPI image, I have arranged with some “tricks” for them. I have created them for both rifle and armoured ranks.
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qwaqwe

Rep: 19.2


PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:23 pm Post subject: Re: Working on TLD Kursk mod Reply with quote

Yes, 1 per division will be ok.

8th penal battalion was deployed near Ponyri.

Penal battalion were composed from officers, companies from privates till sergeants. Commanders of platoons, companies and battalion were regular officers always.

Political commissar is not from NKVD and from 1943 they usualy not used as commanders in battles.
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Drizzt

Rep: 95.3
votes: 8


PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:03 pm Post subject: Re: Working on TLD Kursk mod Reply with quote

qwaqwe wrote (View Post):
8th penal battalion was deployed near Ponyri.

Yes, but Ponyri is in the north sector of the battle, so out of the mod strategic map: I have mentioned only the battalion near Lukhanino for this reason (book fonts affirm these, but who knows? Maybe it was just a company).


qwaqwe wrote (View Post):
Political commissar is not from NKVD and from 1943 they usualy not used as commanders in battles.

Sometime yes (NKVD), but in most cases not, for what I have read. Anyway, what you write about NKVD in 1943 closes this matter (I mean I will not use NKVD platoon leaders).
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qwaqwe

Rep: 19.2


PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:19 am Post subject: Re: Working on TLD Kursk mod Reply with quote

It could be 9th penal separate battalion, was sent as reinforcement to 52nd rifle division.
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