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Schmal_Turm

Rep: 44.3
votes: 1


PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:01 pm Post subject: Re: Working on TLD Kursk mod Reply with quote

Southern_land, I am getting my panzers all revved up to enter into combat in new terrain that has never been used in any of the CC games before. Although I don't have as much time to play these games at work as my hours have been reduced, I am still very much looking forward to playing the largest tank battle ever.

Thanks for all of your creative energies and many hours put into your craft, along with Drizzt who put so much into keeping the CC games alive and interesting.


"No plan ever survives first contact with the enemy." Moltke
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Drizzt

Rep: 114.3
votes: 9


PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:06 pm Post subject: Re: Working on TLD Kursk mod Reply with quote

southern_land wrote (View Post):
no its full size.  I've made some of the buildings a little larger to make coding easier

It means that it's at least a mid-size map, right? In this case, I will use it for sure. Thanks!
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reconscout

Rep: 46.6


PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:43 am Post subject: Re: Working on TLD Kursk mod Reply with quote

Very nice maps


that which does not kill you makes you stronger
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qwaqwe

Rep: 23.4


PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:28 am Post subject: Re: Working on TLD Kursk mod Reply with quote

I think this maps can be used for mod War in Donbass. In the case that some one will want to do it :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Donbass
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southern_land

Rep: 142.4
votes: 14


PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:39 am Post subject: Re: Working on TLD Kursk mod Reply with quote

What size tanks are you using Drizzt?  CC3 or larger?
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Drizzt

Rep: 114.3
votes: 9


PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:33 am Post subject: Re: Working on TLD Kursk mod Reply with quote

southern_land wrote (View Post):
What size tanks are you using Drizzt?  CC3 or larger?

I will use Waldganger beautiful graphic work: I have not yet tested these azp files in the game (Data work is more long and deep than expected), but, for what I see, as size they seem to me similar to Stalingrad mod tanks and vehicles.
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southern_land

Rep: 142.4
votes: 14


PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:48 am Post subject: Re: Working on TLD Kursk mod Reply with quote

Drizzt wrote (View Post):
southern_land wrote (View Post):
What size tanks are you using Drizzt?  CC3 or larger?

I will use Waldganger beautiful graphic work: I have not yet tested these azp files in the game (Data work is more long and deep than expected), but, for what I see, as size they seem to me similar to Stalingrad mod tanks and vehicles.


Ok cool.  I'd forgotten how small the CC3/COI tanks were
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Drizzt

Rep: 114.3
votes: 9


PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 6:47 pm Post subject: Re: Working on TLD Kursk mod Reply with quote

Sequoia wrote (View Post):
My notes states just "RPG-43 Mid-43'"

I have found info about the fact that it has entered in production in April (1943), and in summer was already widespread among troops, so I have added it.


Data work update:
Weapons and soldiers Data work completed: 95% of them have been reworked/corrected/updated. Several soldiers and weapons added and/or replaced. Working on weapons, I have reworked/added the sounds for them (and reworked/added the weapons icons), so the sound.sfx work it's also completed.
Southernland is working on some excellent maps (not only the ones shown here), so, at the end of the work, there will be a good number of new maps.
Now I'm going to work on vehicles; after them, teams and forcepools.


Self-propelled guns technical question  
Even if usually it's not the best option/conduct for them, I know that tanks, tank destroyers and assault guns can fire in movement, but self-propelled guns? They can fire in movement? And even if yes, considering that they are artillery guns, it has sense set them in this way?
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ScnelleMeyer

Rep: 158.1
votes: 10


PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 7:11 pm Post subject: Re: Working on TLD Kursk mod Reply with quote

Its even a stretch to make ww2 tanks, TDs and assault guns fire realatively accurately while moving - The game does not give enough of a accuracy penalty in my opinion.
Even if Self propelled guns like Hummel and Wespe might be techically able to fire while moving I think they should not be able to ingame.
Its not what they were designed to do and scoring a hit on anything further than 100m in real life would be pure luck.

Apart from that - thanks for the update. Things are looking good with progress and even more new maps. Thanks!
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Drizzt

Rep: 114.3
votes: 9


PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 7:43 pm Post subject: Re: Working on TLD Kursk mod Reply with quote

ScnelleMeyer wrote (View Post):
Its even a stretch to make ww2 tanks, TDs and assault guns fire realatively accurately while moving - The game does not give enough of a accuracy penalty in my opinion.
Even if Self propelled guns like Hummel and Wespe might be techically able to fire while moving I think they should not be able to ingame.
Its not what they were designed to do and scoring a hit on anything further than 100m in real life would be pure luck.

Apart from that - thanks for the update. Things are looking good with progress and even more new maps. Thanks!

Thanks for the info! Me too I was oriented in this way considering how they were used, but better to ask (I was not sure about their fire accurancy in movement). Another question:

The dividing line between assault guns and self-propelled guns
About tanks destroyers, they can be both top covered or top opened: it's their gun type that it classify them as TDs, but for assault guns/self-propelled guns sometime (for some of them) it's less simple: should I take in consideration only the caliber of their guns? If they are top covered or top opened? Both?
To be more concrete: Stuh42, SU122 and SU152 are assault guns or self-propelled guns? (for me both, but if I must to choose: assault guns). Should I set them to fire in movement?
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ScnelleMeyer

Rep: 158.1
votes: 10


PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 9:57 pm Post subject: Re: Working on TLD Kursk mod Reply with quote

My understanding of the terms are this: a self-propelled gun would be some kind of artillery gun with the main job of lobbing shells with indirect fire at the enemy from fairly long distances. It will only fire directly (Over open sights) in an emergency if surprised by enemy armor for instance.
Wespe, Hummel, M7 Priest fall in this category.

An assault gun has a lot better armour protection and is designed to support the infantry in the front lines. - It can fight enemy armour, but this was in many cases not its intented main purpose or job. For example the STUG III started as an infantry support vehicle, but very soon got pressed into AT-work, wich it excelled at.
For game purposes I think the vehicles you mention all fall into the assault gun category.

If they should be able to fire while moving?  - In reality they would probably avoid it, but for game purposes I think ppl are used to be able to fire with such vehicles on the move, so maybe keep it that way?
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Drizzt

Rep: 114.3
votes: 9


PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 10:18 am Post subject: Re: Working on TLD Kursk mod Reply with quote

ScnelleMeyer wrote (View Post):
My understanding of the terms are this: a self-propelled gun would be some kind of artillery gun with the main job of lobbing shells with indirect fire at the enemy from fairly long distances. It will only fire directly (Over open sights) in an emergency if surprised by enemy armor for instance.
Wespe, Hummel, M7 Priest fall in this category.

An assault gun has a lot better armour protection and is designed to support the infantry in the front lines. - It can fight enemy armour, but this was in many cases not its intented main purpose or job. For example the STUG III started as an infantry support vehicle, but very soon got pressed into AT-work, wich it excelled at.
For game purposes I think the vehicles you mention all fall into the assault gun category.

If they should be able to fire while moving?  - In reality they would probably avoid it, but for game purposes I think ppl are used to be able to fire with such vehicles on the move, so maybe keep it that way?

Thanks for the point of view ScnelleMeyer. I agree with you. Yes, I will set them able to fire in movement.
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sample

Rep: 56.1
votes: 3


PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 8:38 pm Post subject: Re: Working on TLD Kursk mod Reply with quote

ScnelleMeyer wrote (View Post):
My understanding of the terms are this: a self-propelled gun would be some kind of artillery gun with the main job of lobbing shells with indirect fire at the enemy from fairly long distances. It will only fire directly (Over open sights) in an emergency if surprised by enemy armor for instance.
Wespe, Hummel, M7 Priest fall in this category.


Regarding the use of M7 Priest, by American forces, beside the standard job of indirect fire support:
- in US Army Infantry Divisions 1944-45 book by John Sayen, Duncan Anderson it is mentioned that few unspecified units used M7 in their canon companies in Europe and Pacific replacing the 75mm or 105 mm mounted on half-tracks and used in direct-fire assault role;
- in the New Vanguard no 131 - US Field Artillery of WW 2 book, the M7 is mentioned as used as an expedient assault gun in the headquarters companies of tank battalions until M4 105 mm became available; the US Marine Corps replaced the old M3 75 mm GMG with M7 in their Special Weapons Battalions and used in the same direct-fire assault role in Pacific; the same source specifies that the M7 was widely used in US Army infantry canon companies in the final campaigns of '44-45 in the Pacific.

i hope it helps,

/s
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Sequoia

Rep: 23.8
votes: 1


PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 2:47 am Post subject: Re: Working on TLD Kursk mod Reply with quote

Hello:

Drizzt: About the aircraft sprites, do you reuse images from previous mods or make new ones?

Bye.
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Drizzt

Rep: 114.3
votes: 9


PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 12:28 pm Post subject: Re: Working on TLD Kursk mod Reply with quote

Sequoia wrote (View Post):
Hello: Drizzt: About the aircraft sprites, do you reuse images from previous mods or make new ones? Bye.

Hi Sequoia,

Four aircrafts have been created (or taken from other mods: I don’t know) by Waldganger user many years ago, two aircrafts have been replaced (taken them from other mods) by me.

About new stuff created by Waldganger, I’m 100% sure only about tanks/vehicles (tanks and vehicles they are for sure new). Guns seem to me taken from org game or other mods (or maybe are mixed: some are new and some not).
Wrecks were from org CC3: this means they were really too different and too small compared to relative tanks/vehicles. I have been obliged to work on them taking some burned wrecks from Stalingrad mod (tanks/vehicles size it’s often identical), reworking some others, and creating some of them starting from the org Waldganger tank/vehicle.
This kind of work (an extra work) and the fact that all tanks/vehicles must be reworked about their Data, it has slowed a lot this phase of the Data work. The positive thing it’s that azp files work it proceeds together with tanks/vehicles/guns Data work.
I have also added some new tanks/vehicles in Data and removed some others (due to the mod timeline), and graphically corrected few ones (for example, M3 Lee had the 75mm gun placed in the wrong side).


Last edited by Drizzt on Fri May 10, 2019 1:56 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Drizzt

Rep: 114.3
votes: 9


PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 12:29 pm Post subject: Re: Working on TLD Kursk mod Reply with quote

Post duplicate (an error).
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Drizzt

Rep: 114.3
votes: 9


PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2019 5:07 pm Post subject: Re: Working on TLD Kursk mod Reply with quote

Uniform question
German and russian crew of vehicles (GAZ AA, M3 halftrack) and armored cars, which kind of uniform they wore? Tank style uniforms or standard uniforms?
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Sequoia

Rep: 23.8
votes: 1


PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2019 1:00 am Post subject: Re: Working on TLD Kursk mod Reply with quote

Hello:

About Russian planes, the color scheme used in July 1943 is green and black. Just before the german offensive new color schemes were introducted, but the order was effective since 15 July and only for new and repaired planes. The national marking was the red star, usually without outlines, in six positions, wings undersides, left and right sides of tail unit and fuselage (behind the cockpit).
Lease-Lend Planes remained in factory colors or the scheme painted by previous users (in the case of second hand ones), with Russian red star applied in the factory or overpainted by the Russian over western allied markings.

The major air units relevant to the mod are:

*2nd Air Army (subordinated to Voronezh Front)
*17th Air Army (subordinated to Southwestern Front but supporting 2nd Air Army)
*5th Air Army (subordinated to Steppe Front, acting as reserve, with transference of units with the frontline Air Armies during and after Op. Citadel)

Not relevant to the mod: Air Armies acting in the north of salient and long range aviation units.

The aircraft types involved in operations covered by the game:
-IL-2 used in ShAP (Assault Aviation Regiment)
-Pe-2 used in BAP (Bomber Aviation Regiment)
-Yak-1/7b/9 used in IAP (Fighter Aviation Regiment)
-La-5 used in IAP (Fighter Aviation Regiment)
-A-20 Havoc used in OBAP (Separate Bomber Aviation Regiment)
-R-5 & Po-5 biplanes used in NBAP (Night Bomber Aviation Regiment)

No Airacobras or Warhawks.
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Drizzt

Rep: 114.3
votes: 9


PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2019 9:47 am Post subject: Re: Working on TLD Kursk mod Reply with quote

Sequoia wrote (View Post):
Hello:

About Russian planes, the color scheme used in July 1943 is green and black. Just before the german offensive new color schemes were introducted, but the order was effective since 15 July and only for new and repaired planes. The national marking was the red star, usually without outlines, in six positions, wings undersides, left and right sides of tail unit and fuselage (behind the cockpit).
Lease-Lend Planes remained in factory colors or the scheme painted by previous users (in the case of second hand ones), with Russian red star applied in the factory or overpainted by the Russian over western allied markings.

The major air units relevant to the mod are:

*2nd Air Army (subordinated to Voronezh Front)
*17th Air Army (subordinated to Southwestern Front but supporting 2nd Air Army)
*5th Air Army (subordinated to Steppe Front, acting as reserve, with transference of units with the frontline Air Armies during and after Op. Citadel)

Not relevant to the mod: Air Armies acting in the north of salient and long range aviation units.

The aircraft types involved in operations covered by the game:
-IL-2 used in ShAP (Assault Aviation Regiment)
-Pe-2 used in BAP (Bomber Aviation Regiment)
-Yak-1/7b/9 used in IAP (Fighter Aviation Regiment)
-La-5 used in IAP (Fighter Aviation Regiment)
-A-20 Havoc used in OBAP (Separate Bomber Aviation Regiment)
-R-5 & Po-5 biplanes used in NBAP (Night Bomber Aviation Regiment)
No Airacobras or Warhawks.

Thanks for the info: about aircraft units and types present in the battle, I already had them. I have chosen Yak-7b, IL-2M and PE-2 aircrafts.
About colors: aircrafts (for now) are in green - light brown colors. It should be a "regional" camouflage (soviets had adopted specific camouflages considering the area of combat). Regional camouflages were used at choice (high officer choice, I suppose) instead of the official one, and I have read that this kind of camouflage was popular in south sector of the front. In particular, I'm sure it has been used vastly on IL-2. Having said this, I can easily convert the light brown in black (to obtain black/green official camouflage) on Yak-7b and PE-2, but I would be sure that it must be done (I mean: I would be sure that this regional colors scheme was never used in summer 1943 on these two aircrafts: do you have this kind of info?)




bump
Uniform question
German and russian crew of vehicles (GAZ AA, M3 halftrack) and armored cars, which kind of uniform they wore? Tank style uniforms or standard uniforms?


Last edited by Drizzt on Sun May 12, 2019 6:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ScnelleMeyer

Rep: 158.1
votes: 10


PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2019 12:19 pm Post subject: Re: Working on TLD Kursk mod Reply with quote

German armoured car crews were issued the black panzer uniform, while half track crews would use regular fieldgrey tunics.
Looking at photos several combinations are possible in field conditions.

Soviet armoured car crews seems to have used the green regular uniform and not the dark blue tankers suit as standard.
Several photos show them using the tankers radio helmet.
https://heroesandgenerals.com/forums/topic/79855-soviet-halftrack/
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