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mooxe

Rep: 211.3
votes: 25


PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2022 11:49 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

Is the war still about Nazis?


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paratmar

Rep: 24.5
votes: 3


PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2022 5:14 am Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

mooxe wrote (View Post):
Is the war still about Nazis?
The war is still about for  domination and mony (resourses). Another goals for wars wasnt  in our (homo sapiens) history yet).

Hidden: 
An inscription was found on one of the steles explaining the reasons for the military campaign of Pharaoh Amenhotep II (1493 BC):“In his first victorious campaign, His Majesty went to South Syria to expand his borders, to seize the good of those who were not faithful to him.”
-Plutarch in the biography of the famous king and commander Pyrrhus tells about the orator Cineas, who asked Pyrrhus (this happened in 281 BC) for what reason he was going to attack the Romans:''- You, Cineas, ask about things that are self-evident. If we defeat the Romans, then not a single barbarian or Greek city in Italy will be able to resist us, and we will quickly take over the whole country ...''
-War in July 1969 between Honduras and El Salvador. The fan conflict was inflated by the efforts of the media of both countries to the extent of national catastrophes that directly threatened the national interests of both Honduras and El Salvador.
The casus belli can be different, the reason is the same: power and resources.
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mooxe

Rep: 211.3
votes: 25


PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2022 1:09 am Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

and what is the war about for the Ukraine?


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paratmar

Rep: 24.5
votes: 3


PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2022 4:05 am Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

mooxe wrote (View Post):
and what is the war about for the Ukraine?

A strange question, it’s obvious to me, the war in Ukraine launched the redistribution of the global world order. The old Alpha countries (let's call them the "West") are trying to maintain their dominance and access to cheap resources. And the new applicants for participation in the robbery of the weak by the strong (conditionally - the East), are trying to challenge the old order and also take the best "place in the sun."
In Ukraine, weapons are now being tested and new methods of warfare are being developed. The "West" is fighting with the hands of proxy troops (ukrainians, mercenaries and volunteers). Russia is also using limited forces to warm up before major clashes.
China and countries, that have not yet decided who they are with, are watching with interest and drawing conclusions about promising weapons and methods of warfare. After the elections in Taiwan, depending on their results, there will be the next move in this global "chess party". IMHO).
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JFFulcrum

Rep: 67.1


PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2022 7:58 am Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

mooxe wrote (View Post):
and what is the war about for the Ukraine?

In mid-00s Russian large business started expansion to the world. But very soon, it faced with not just economical, but with political competition. For example, none of large Russian firms was able to enter to US or Japan markets directly. Several large deals was broken clearly by political reasons, notably Arcelor and Opel. Russian oligarchs took an unpleasant lesson: they are not equal to western ones, they are 'untermensch', and will be always limited in rights and market share. This started the painful and well-known from history process to reach basic political economy fundamental truths: policy is a continuation of economy. And war is a continuation of policy. Some oligarchs likely already knew it, having Soviet education, they was surprised about "all what communists lied to us become truth". The intentions to increase Russian state political and military value for projecting economical influence in the world was met with similar streams in Putin's crew, already disappointed by 'colored revolutions' and cold denial of any Russian political interests from West. Somewhere around early 2010s this crystalizes in common, first half of XX century, imperialism. The 2014 Ukraine crisis was a signal for starting new way for Russia. What way, you may ask?  Some hint was disclosed in 2015: https://www-kommersant-ru.translate.goog/doc/2832376?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=ru&_x_tr_pto=wapp
 
Quote:
"But we will be able to give technology to other countries only when we have (there  . - " Kommersant ") military presence. When other countries have no alternative not to take it from us,” Dmitry Marinichev frankly admitted. According to him, Russia faces a “rather serious” choice: “Either we are in a catalyst for military relations with the United States and we tell them that we are a new source of strength. But you need to understand that this means passive or active military operations in the territories of the sphere of influence (USA  . - "Kommersant")".


Its always funny when even well-aware western experts, like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvonRMSuFpw , citing Dugin or Prokhanov as major influencers on Putin. They should read about other man: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Ilyin
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mooxe

Rep: 211.3
votes: 25


PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2022 9:25 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

paratmar wrote (View Post):
mooxe wrote (View Post):
and what is the war about for the Ukraine?

A strange question, it’s obvious to me, the war in Ukraine launched the redistribution of the global world order. The old Alpha countries (let's call them the "West") are trying to maintain their dominance and access to cheap resources. And the new applicants for participation in the robbery of the weak by the strong (conditionally - the East), are trying to challenge the old order and also take the best "place in the sun."
In Ukraine, weapons are now being tested and new methods of warfare are being developed. The "West" is fighting with the hands of proxy troops (ukrainians, mercenaries and volunteers). Russia is also using limited forces to warm up before major clashes.
China and countries, that have not yet decided who they are with, are watching with interest and drawing conclusions about promising weapons and methods of warfare. After the elections in Taiwan, depending on their results, there will be the next move in this global "chess party". IMHO).


You didn't answer what the war is about for the Ukraine, you answered for other countries.


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paratmar

Rep: 24.5
votes: 3


PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2022 4:53 am Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

mooxe wrote (View Post):
paratmar wrote (View Post):
mooxe wrote (View Post):
and what is the war about for the Ukraine?

A strange question, it’s obvious to me, the war in Ukraine launched the redistribution of the global world order. The old Alpha countries (let's call them the "West") are trying to maintain their dominance and access to cheap resources. And the new applicants for participation in the robbery of the weak by the strong (conditionally - the East), are trying to challenge the old order and also take the best "place in the sun."
In Ukraine, weapons are now being tested and new methods of warfare are being developed. The "West" is fighting with the hands of proxy troops (ukrainians, mercenaries and volunteers). Russia is also using limited forces to warm up before major clashes.
China and countries, that have not yet decided who they are with, are watching with interest and drawing conclusions about promising weapons and methods of warfare. After the elections in Taiwan, depending on their results, there will be the next move in this global "chess party". IMHO).


You didn't answer what the war is about for the Ukraine, you answered for other countries.
The reasons for the clash between global players (Britain-US vs. China-Russia) are very clear to me, and I try to predict its outcome as a whole. I do not understand your persistence in discussing the topic of Ukraine separately from other countries. Concreat your question, please).

Hidden: 
I see no reason to dwell in detail on the consideration of a chess square (Ukraina), to which a pawn (ukrainians) was moved on the first move in a chess game. More important are the subsequent moves of the other pieces.
"A pawn is a piece that is valued the least, and at the same time sacrificed very often, which is why the term "pawn" is used in everyday life. The pawn can only move forward, and at the same time it moves directly towards all enemy fences and redoubts, is aware of the fact that this may already be the last battle for it."
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JFFulcrum

Rep: 67.1


PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2022 7:17 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

New report about human rights in war: https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/countries/ua/2022-06-29/2022-06-UkraineArmedAttack-EN.pdf
Interesting, that very little info provided about Bucha alleged massacre's. Bucha is more than three months under Ukrainian control, whats up with investigation? No new info of Mariupol theatre, not even estimated count of victims. Happily, several other cases had advances, like Kremennaya eldery house massacre. Ukrainian claims: https://www.unian.net/war/v-kremennoy-okkupanty-iz-tanka-rasstrelyali-dom-prestarelyh-56-pogibshih-novosti-vtorzheniya-rossii-na-ukrainu-11751883.html  , https://www.unian.net/war/rf-pytaetsya-skryt-rasstrel-56-pozhilyh-lyudey-v-okkupirovannoy-kremennoy-gayday-novosti-vtorzheniya-rossii-na-ukrainu-11897523.html. Russian claims: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhlycVGINxA . Cite from report:

Quote:
35. OHCHR does not have reliable numbers on these cases, but the case of a care house
in the village of Stara Krasnianka (Luhansk region) has been emblematic in this
regard. At the beginning of March 2022, when active hostilities drew nearer to the
care house, its management repeatedly requested local authorities to evacuate the
residents. This was reportedly impossible as Ukrainian armed forces had allegedly
mined the surrounding area and blocked roads. On 7 March, soldiers from
Ukrainian armed forces entered the care house, where older persons and residents
with disabilities and staff were located, as it had strategic value due to its proximity
to an important road. On 9 March, soldiers from Russian affiliated armed groups,
who were approaching from the opposite direction, engaged in an exchange of fire
with soldiers from Ukrainian armed forces, although it remains unclear which side
opened fire first. During this first exchange of fire, no staff or patients were injured.

Report on the human rights situation in Ukraine, 24 February – 15 May 2022 | 9
36. On 11 March, 71 patients with disabilities and 15 staff, along with soldiers from
Ukrainian armed forces, remained in the care house with no access to water or
electricity. That morning, soldiers from Russian affiliated armed groups attacked
the care house with heavy weapons, with patients and staff still inside. A fire started
and spread across the care house while fighting was ongoing. Some staff and
patients fled the care house and ran into the forest, until they were met five
kilometers away by Russian affiliated armed groups, who provided them with
assistance. According to various accounts, at least 22 patients survived the attack,
but the exact number of persons killed remains unknown.
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paratmar

Rep: 24.5
votes: 3


PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2022 8:02 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

JFFulcrum wrote (View Post):
New report about human rights in war: https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/countries/ua/2022-06-29/2022-06-UkraineArmedAttack-EN.pdf
Interesting, that very little info provided about Bucha alleged massacre's. Bucha is more than three months under Ukrainian control, whats up with investigation? No new info of Mariupol theatre, not even estimated count of victims. Happily, several other cases had advances, like Kremennaya eldery house massacre. Ukrainian claims: https://www.unian.net/war/v-kremennoy-okkupanty-iz-tanka-rasstrelyali-dom-prestarelyh-56-pogibshih-novosti-vtorzheniya-rossii-na-ukrainu-11751883.html  , https://www.unian.net/war/rf-pytaetsya-skryt-rasstrel-56-pozhilyh-lyudey-v-okkupirovannoy-kremennoy-gayday-novosti-vtorzheniya-rossii-na-ukrainu-11897523.html. Russian claims: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhlycVGINxA . Cite from report:

Quote:
35. OHCHR does not have reliable numbers on these cases, but the case of a care house
in the village of Stara Krasnianka (Luhansk region) has been emblematic in this
regard. At the beginning of March 2022, when active hostilities drew nearer to the
care house, its management repeatedly requested local authorities to evacuate the
residents. This was reportedly impossible as Ukrainian armed forces had allegedly
mined the surrounding area and blocked roads. On 7 March, soldiers from
Ukrainian armed forces entered the care house, where older persons and residents
with disabilities and staff were located, as it had strategic value due to its proximity
to an important road. On 9 March, soldiers from Russian affiliated armed groups,
who were approaching from the opposite direction, engaged in an exchange of fire
with soldiers from Ukrainian armed forces, although it remains unclear which side
opened fire first. During this first exchange of fire, no staff or patients were injured.

Report on the human rights situation in Ukraine, 24 February – 15 May 2022 | 9
36. On 11 March, 71 patients with disabilities and 15 staff, along with soldiers from
Ukrainian armed forces, remained in the care house with no access to water or
electricity. That morning, soldiers from Russian affiliated armed groups attacked
the care house with heavy weapons, with patients and staff still inside. A fire started
and spread across the care house while fighting was ongoing. Some staff and
patients fled the care house and ran into the forest, until they were met five
kilometers away by Russian affiliated armed groups, who provided them with
assistance. According to various accounts, at least 22 patients survived the attack,
but the exact number of persons killed remains unknown.
one more info for think...with an eng subs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji3OO4rshks&ab_channel=%D0%90%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%B9%D0%A8%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%B9
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mooxe

Rep: 211.3
votes: 25


PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2022 9:58 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

What do you think its like for a citizen of Ukraine living there right now?


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paratmar

Rep: 24.5
votes: 3


PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2022 6:32 am Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

mooxe wrote (View Post):
What do you think its like for a citizen of Ukraine living there right now?

My opinion as a supporter of peaceful solutions to any conflicts: any quarrel (fight, war) is a tragedy for its participants. Citizens of Ukraine suffer the most in this fight, as it takes place on their territory. I think that a large percentage of Ukrainian citizens (including my and my wife's relatives in Kremenchug and Odessa, respectively) experience suffering and rage. Personally, I would like the speedy completion of this stage of the world confrontation in this territory. But a detached look at the essence of this world conflict says that this is only its beginning, and all the most intense is still ahead.
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dj

Rep: 144.1
votes: 8


PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2022 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

Why is Putin forcing over 200,000 Ukrainian civilians against their will to re-locate to Russia?  How many immigrants voluntarily seek to move to Russia?

There are no independent large Russian businesses.  Everything is state-sponsored control by Oligarchs whom pay a tithe to boss Putin.  And state controlled banking system (Putin) with no transparency, audits or accountability.  One can assume by the immense cost of super-size McMansions and yaughts that the State and Oligarchy system is pocketing their revenues for personal use and not re-distributing back to Russian people much.  It's Socialism for the Rich and Capitalism for the poor/middle class at global scale.
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JFFulcrum

Rep: 67.1


PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2022 7:19 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

Quote:
Why is Putin forcing over 200,000 Ukrainian civilians against their will to re-locate to Russia?  How many immigrants voluntarily seek to move to Russia?

Well, take a look at story of Kremennaya eldery house above. Ukraine blame that Russian army kidnapped survivors by moving them to other place, distant from the frontline. That is bad. If Russian army otherwise abandon them in burned building , they will claim that this is bad too. Catch-22 situation, always a gift for war propaganda.

Quote:
There are no independent large Russian businesses.  Everything is state-sponsored control by Oligarchs whom pay a tithe to boss Putin.  

Now - yes. Money and power tend to joins together. Not in past though, at some point Putin was just a neutral toy for Yeltsin-times oligarchs, so-called 'Seven bankers'.
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dj

Rep: 144.1
votes: 8


PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2022 9:10 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

Yes it was very violent bloody struggle for power in the early to mid-90's.  I have seen film documentaries of mafia style gangland killings in streets of Russia post-USSR. After the 90's about 20 years ago or so, Putin instituted shift to use new Oligarchy state sponsored gangster system of "chosen" ones approved to control / regulate organized crime to his advantage.  Obviously they must swear allegiance to boss Putin and give a tithe.
Western nations including USA suffer from similar Corporate monopolization of industries but the corruptions is more diluted and not as secretive.  It's in plain sight if you know where to find the statistics.

For example the big Pharmaceutical corporations which have shareholders as public companies were well aware of the opioid drug addictions and mocked the victims.  When DEA tried to impose fines or regulations to restrict the distribution of highly addictive pills, the big drug companies and their "syndicates" of multii-billion $ distributors, they fought back.  Using army of well paid lobbyists to stop new laws/regulations along with simply bribing them legally....by just offering this huge job offers to leave law enforcement or political careers to work for their special interests.  Textbook classic crony capitalism.
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paratmar

Rep: 24.5
votes: 3


PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2022 9:13 am Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

Mariupol today. From 6:31 exhibition of captured equipment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpwfKr1j9_M&ab_channel=AnastasiaKozhevnikova
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dj

Rep: 144.1
votes: 8


PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2022 11:49 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

Bill Maher just had a suggestion for Britney Griner prisoner swap as counter offer for negotiations with Putin.

Besides freeing the Russian arms dealer being let out of jail, USA will put Trump in jail for sedition and then send him to Russia in exchange for Griner.
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dj

Rep: 144.1
votes: 8


PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 6:44 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

Fair trade for prisoner swap?

"...how about this for an idea? We put Trump in jail and then trade him to Russia for Brittney Griner"

https://www.yahoo.com/news/bill-maher-mocks-trump-over-130942879.html

Unfortunately 50 Ukrainian POW's said to be killed in prison camp. Yet again Russia blaming Ukraine for attacking their own troops in captivity.  Ukraine saying it was to hide evidence of torture of the POW's.

https://nypost.com/2022/07/29/more-than-50-ukrainian-pows-killed-in-petrifying-war-crime/
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dj

Rep: 144.1
votes: 8


PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 6:48 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

Very troubling reports of torture by Russia as well don't even want to say how bad the allegations...why does Russia do this to their brothers use to be part of USSR and treat them worse than animals now.
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JFFulcrum

Rep: 67.1


PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2022 8:23 am Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

Well, i got some first-hand experience, beeing awaken yesterday at 6.00am by explosion. Light drone delivered IED to Russian Balck Sea Navy HQ, probably was launched from inside of Sevastopol  https://t.me/razvozhaev/791 . ISIS tactic, 'nothing is wasted by zealous owners'. Six injured - operator dive it to smoking area, probably to closest croud seen. Qestions, where was an anti-drone defences - may be was an insider.

Another act of terror from ???? (on motive of ????/ISIS) in Donetsk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJZv8bPFDoM , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NlgPdkMeWQ

One of possible reasons for Ukraine to strike on POW camp: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji3OO4rshks , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OF7K_XEIip0 . Dead men do not talk.
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Berger

Rep: 28
votes: 3


PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2022 6:24 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

I guess it was an ukrainian mistake, they thought they were hitting another kind of target (supply depot, barracks, etc) instead of a POW camp.
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