Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:38 am Post subject: Force Strength Bar - You think you know?
So I've been thinking about the Force Strength Bar recently.
Anyone who has played CC5 long enough knows to take the Force Strength Bar (FSB) with a grain of salt. Only through close inspection of both sides can you really determine if a battle is balanced. however, we all probably give a quick glance to the colored bar as it can give a relative idea of how balanced the BG's are before a match.
However, what does this apparently very important indicator (*the game designers must have thought that it was very, very important since they placed it on the main screen smack in front of your eyes) really mean?
Well, I don't actually know.
I think that it is only an indication of BG strength, not who owns what portion of what map. So, it may be far in favor of the the allied BG, but you wouldn't neccesarily choose the Allied side based on the FSB if they're attacking into a German held map, for example.
I'm no modder, but I assume that every unit has a numerical value attached to it (e.g. Ersatz Team 10pts, Firefly 70pts, etc.), which is where the AI Engine get's the FSB scale.
But the real question comes when weighing a single battle to an operation, and the axis against the allies.
My logic goes like this -
If you choose a battle to play, and the FSB favors, say, the Germans: You play the one battle, and then the game is forever over. The Allies never had a chance to hit the reinforce button, so the FSB clearly must not include reinforcing in it's equation of strength.
However, let's say you're playing an Op, and again the FSB favors the Germans. But now you have several days ahead of you and as the Allies you know you can hit the reinforce button, and after studying the BG's, you can pretty much tell that the Allies will win with sheer numbers, if not skill.
So, for an Op, does the FSB take into account reinforcing?
I don't know, but it doesn't seem like it would. Or maybe it does, so it is naturally faulty to rely on the FSB while playing only a single battle.
Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:12 am Post subject: mmm
oh yer it works.
and it is always for an op or gc
not a single battle.
can use for single battle
but it is worked out on total fpools.
Forget words,actions will show your true ambitions!The Battlefield,In many cases, the terrain of a battlefield can be the best resource a commander has. A clump of trees, an abandoned house, or a drainage ditch can all be powerful tools in the right hands
Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:00 pm Post subject: mmm
i dont think it does.
Forget words,actions will show your true ambitions!The Battlefield,In many cases, the terrain of a battlefield can be the best resource a commander has. A clump of trees, an abandoned house, or a drainage ditch can all be powerful tools in the right hands
Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 3:50 am Post subject: mmm
it doesnt include the reinforce.
in the air nothing :p
Forget words,actions will show your true ambitions!The Battlefield,In many cases, the terrain of a battlefield can be the best resource a commander has. A clump of trees, an abandoned house, or a drainage ditch can all be powerful tools in the right hands
By my experience I can say that bar force strenght refer only to "starting 15 teams" IA default of a BG. Try to create a BG with 400 tanks and 15 snipers and set as default the 15 snipers as starting 15 teams: you will see in the game that your BG will be very weak in bar force strenght even if you have 400 tanks in your force pool. If you set 15 tanks as starting teams the BG bar force strenght will be very strong for you (the opposite BG is not important: one or another one is the same thing in this example). Regards Drizzt
Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:51 am Post subject: mmm
sorry i didnt notice u had replied.
but its definitely total fpool.even on single battle.
and to mac im not sure if the reinforce is included
but i dont think it is,im not going to do the sums to give u a definite
i just trust my hunch.
Forget words,actions will show your true ambitions!The Battlefield,In many cases, the terrain of a battlefield can be the best resource a commander has. A clump of trees, an abandoned house, or a drainage ditch can all be powerful tools in the right hands
I'm sorry, but is difficult agree for me: have you have tried to do the small example I have done?
Another example: When I have finished to re-work my mod data I have seen that in GC force bar strength was a little bit in favour of germans: I wanted it a little bit in favour of russians. Have I modified forcepools? No. I have modified starting 15 teams of some BGs: I have pull off 1 tank in starting 15 teams of german armored Bgs and I have add some guns instead of MG teams in some russian BGs starting 15 teams. At the end of these I have force bar strength a little bit in favour of russians. I think that GC and operations force bar strength are the adding of Bgs "starting 15 teams" used inside them.
Anyway is only my personal experience, maybe can be that both things (starting 15 teams, forcepools) are involved: I don't know. Regards, Drizzt
Interesting. It sounds like Drizzt is on to something here since he's done the testing, but I look forward to what you find Lordy.
I doubt it could be both. And now that I'm thinking about it more, in the Op editor screen, the colored bars above the BG's heads actaully tell force strength (in reg, utah, stal, and some other mods). So I could see that the Force Strength Bar may just have to do what's on the plate at the time. However, this doesn't seem usefull as the units that you start with aren't going to be the ones you pick in the end most likely...
Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 6:51 pm Post subject: mmm
oh i done testing Mac.nothing to look forward to
as ive already told u
but alas i present u no proof
i have nothing to prove.(well if u keep teasing i may prove it)
u follow Drzzt direction its a solid theory,just not the case as i know it.
u will realise i was right.
Forget words,actions will show your true ambitions!The Battlefield,In many cases, the terrain of a battlefield can be the best resource a commander has. A clump of trees, an abandoned house, or a drainage ditch can all be powerful tools in the right hands
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