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Do incapacitations count as a soldier's kills?

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papa_whisky

Rep: 42.2
votes: 4


PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:49 am Post subject: Re: What are you reading? Reply with quote

Dima wrote (View Post):


here is one review of Beevor's "Stalingrad" http://www.mariosousa.se/ReviewBeevorStalingrad050729.html



The review of Stalingrad in the above link is comprehensive in its criticism of the book and strongly defends any criticism of the Soviet Union with in it, but doesn't appear to provide any facts to support its counter claims. Seems more of a rant than anything. During the reading of the book I never felt once that the Germans were painted as 'heroes', you could however empathise with individual soldiers during their accounts irrespective of their side.

Maybe I don't see thing the way you do as I was a 'colonialist and officer in the British Empire' and I subscribe to 'the new liberal capitalism wants to deprive the workers of everything: their living conditions, their safety, and even their history. The capitalists want us to lose confidence in ourselves so as to be able to rule without restrictions. There is not much difference between liberalism and nazism in this respect.'....  or at least that is what Mário Sousa would probably class me as. I am sorry, Dima, with statements like that and the absence of any references to support the counter arguments presented Mário Sousa is hard to take seriously.
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 7:44 pm Post subject: Re: What are you reading? Reply with quote

Quote:
I am sorry, Dima, with statements like that and the absence of any references to support the counter arguments presented Mário Sousa is hard to take seriously.

Sousa is on the same level as Beevor in his "works" but, as commie, is on the different side of a stick Smile.
His approach is pretty same as Beevor's - no need to prove anything, just believe in it..

Albert Axell, the American military writer and historian :
Once I was invited to talk on BBC Radio 4. The second invitee was presented as "an authoritative military historian", Antony Beevor, who wrote Berlin: The Downfall, 1945, where he portrayed the Red Army as the looter and rapist. This historian says that when Soviet troops pushed into Germany, Russian soldiers raped two million German women. He quotes a source saying: "Russian soldiers were raping every German female from eight to 80." What a perfect statistic: every female - nobody needs any proof!

I don't want to prove anything to you, it's your choice whom to believe. I could just suggest you reading something serious about EF, like Glantz f.e., and then make your conclusions:
http://www.amazon.com/Gates-Stalingrad-Soviet-German-Operations-April-August/dp/0700616306/ref=pd_sim_b_1
http://www.amazon.com/Armageddon-Stalingrad-September-November-Trilogy-Studies/dp/0700616640/ref=pd_sim_b_3
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papa_whisky

Rep: 42.2
votes: 4


PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:37 pm Post subject: Re: What are you reading? Reply with quote

@ Dima therefore your previous comments are baseless I think is what you are saying.
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:25 pm Post subject: Re: What are you reading? Reply with quote

Quote:
@ Dima therefore your previous comments are baseless I think is what you are saying.

why? Sousa crashed Beevor's Stalingrad. Could prove he did not? Wink.
what i was saying and repeating is that "Beevor's history" is far from reality and that is based on many histrocial books on same topic.
anyway, everyone chooses himself what to believe in.
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Blackstump

Rep: 24.5
votes: 1


PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:31 am Post subject: Re: What are you reading? Reply with quote

The Path of Infinite Sorrow.
Japanese side of the Kokada/ New Guinea campaign
Interesting eye witness and historical accounts from both sides. Highlights the inter service rivalry between navy and army from Japanese view point. Also their indecision from Guadacanal landings and the confusion caused by this time.
For me its a lesson in correct intel and reconaissance and the inherent risk of an extended supply line.


"percute et percute velociter"
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Tippi-Simo

Rep: 53.1
votes: 5


PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:29 am Post subject: Re: What are you reading? Reply with quote

Dima wrote (View Post):
Quote:
but it is indeed documented also by russians.

any prove? Smile

Since your grandfather lied to you, you have to search your national archives.


"Du talar dalig svenska, men du är bra i sängen"
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verba

Rep: 16.9
votes: 1


PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:58 pm Post subject: Re: What are you reading? Reply with quote

Im reading this thread and

The latestbook from Emerson Vermaat: Heinrich Himmler en de cultus van de dood
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Hoogley

Rep: 15.7
votes: 4


PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:12 am Post subject: Re: What are you reading? Reply with quote

Sadly, I'm not reading anything of the paper variety currently.

I'm listening to The History of Rome podcast and reading The Walking Dead comic on iPod.

I'm also working on the mod for LSA which entails reading a lot of web articles about weapons and ammo load-outs.

And, in the background, I've been working on an RPG system for the last 20 years.  Currently, I've been doing a lot of reading about different mythologies and the like.  Ireland has an incredible mythological history attached to it.


"I have come here to kick ass and chew bubblegum... and I'm all out of bubblegum." - They Live
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vonB

Rep: 32.6
votes: 5


PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:20 pm Post subject: Re: What are you reading? Reply with quote

Just finished Mother Tongue by Bill Bryson.  Well worth reading for anyone interested in the evolution of the English language in particular.  It's reasonably light reading with typical Bill Bryson humour, but still very informative.  Some things will surprise both Brits and Yanks alike.  You may find some of the things you took for granted very wrong...
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Superkala

Rep: 5.1
votes: 2


PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:28 pm Post subject: Re: What are you reading? Reply with quote

''A bridge too far'' by Cornelius Ryan

Hmm, its been awile since my last post and whats that burning smell?
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Tippi-Simo

Rep: 53.1
votes: 5


PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 7:18 am Post subject: Re: What are you reading? Reply with quote

In and out of Stalin´s GRU - Ismail Akhmedov

Really interesting story about Soviet spy during 30´s and 40´s.


"Du talar dalig svenska, men du är bra i sängen"
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RD_TG_Jager

Rep: 24.5


PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:37 pm Post subject: Re: What are you reading? Reply with quote

Steel Inferno: I SS Panzer Corps in Normandy, very good book that’s cover both 12th SS and 1st SS divisions from deployment to around Caen up to Falsie aka Mortain gap counter offensive.

Currently reading

Grenadiers: The Story Of Waffen SS General Kurt 'Panzer' Meyer (Stackpole Military History)

Winston Churchil's The Second World War


Going to read,
       The 12th SS: The History of the Hitler Youth Panzer Division Volume II
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kawasaky

Rep: 22.2
votes: 5


PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:57 pm Post subject: Re: What are you reading? Reply with quote

I just printed and started to read:
Saxon, Timothy D., The German Side of the Hill: Nazi Conquest and Exploitation of Italy, 1943-45, University of Virgina, 1999
http://digitalcommons.liberty.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1053&context=fac_dis
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ronson

Rep: 36.7
votes: 5


PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:06 pm Post subject: Re: What are you reading? Reply with quote

'Red Road From Stalingrad'.....recollections of a Soviet infantryman
Author .....Mansur Abdlin
Editor ......Artem Drabkin
Translator...Denis Fedosov

Unusual book that I picked up 2nd hand recently describes from 'ground level' the Soviet soldiers viewpoint of some of the epic battles on the Eastern Front, easy to read and seems to be free of any overt political bias.

Also contains some organisation details (Armaments, Strenghts, transportation etc.) of the units he served with 293 Rifle and 66 Guards Divisions

Not sure if its still in print , but worth checking with your bookstore or public library ref is:-
ISBN 1 84415 145 X

Well worth an afternoons reading at under 200 pages.

Cheers
Ronson


GR member Ronson1  ac 4247033
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:36 pm Post subject: Re: What are you reading? Reply with quote

Hi Ronson,

there is number of very good books by Artem Drabkin (editor and project author), they are mainly recollections of RA soldiers/officers memoirs and probably the best available in English about Red Army soldiers.

Check his other books published in English
http://www.allbookstores.com/ARTEM-DRABKIN/author/1

Also check his webpage where you can read alot of memoirs of RA enslisted during GPW:
http://english.iremember.ru/
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ronson

Rep: 36.7
votes: 5


PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:13 pm Post subject: Re: What are you reading? Reply with quote

Thx Dima:),

Interesting selection of books there, Aircobra, T34, Penalty strike and the collection of interviews I'll definately keep a lookout for.

Cheers
Ronson


GR member Ronson1  ac 4247033
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mooxe

Rep: 214.8
votes: 25


PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:29 pm Post subject: Re: What are you reading? Reply with quote

Dima wrote (View Post):

Also check his webpage where you can read alot of memoirs of RA enslisted during GPW:
http://english.iremember.ru/


Good reading.


About Soviet wartime books... I read one a few years ago about a T34 commander. It was packed full of propaganda and anti-nazi rhetoric that it took away from the "non-fiction-ness" of it. Like a real soldier wrote it, and then it was passed through the propaganda department for editing, really turned me off.

I am always looking for books from Japanese, Russians and any other nationality not represented well here in the West. I hate that one book has kind of soured me on Russian books... but before buying any more of them I would have to research some user reviews or something.


Join Discord for technical support and online games.
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:11 pm Post subject: Re: What are you reading? Reply with quote

Quote:
About Soviet wartime books... I read one a few years ago about a T34 commander. It was packed full of propaganda and anti-nazi rhetoric that it took away from the "non-fiction-ness" of it. Like a real soldier wrote it, and then it was passed through the propaganda department for editing, really turned me off.

mate, these are modern Russian books not Sovet times books, they are made to show the war as it was for low rank enlisted men and not as it was picted in USSR.

anyway, German and US memoirs i've read are not better, propaganda-wise, than Soviet memoirs..
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Priapus

Rep: 18.6
votes: 1


PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:15 pm Post subject: Re: What are you reading? Reply with quote

Have you read Life & Fate by Vasily Grossman Dima? I picked it up recently and am looking forward to delving into it once I finish Molotov Remembers; a collection of interviews with Vyacheslav Molotov from the early 60s until his death in the mid 80s. It's fascinating to hear a defence of the stalinist regime from someone who was there from the very start and almost to the very end.
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:43 pm Post subject: Re: What are you reading? Reply with quote

No, didn't read Grossman.
Molotov's interviews are cool Smile.
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