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 Author
Message
 
Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:51 pm Post subject: Panzer voran! Reply with quote

Post here everything concerning tanx and ATGs in TRSM.
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:52 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

TIGERCUB posted:

Hi Dima,

I am starting to think that perhaps the 48cal/75mm is under powered in the your mod(mind you it is still better that most mods show them to be), I have a had a few tank battles now and last night lost 6 nil and i had him in a cross fire in was not pretty....lol

some info maybe it could help!
Gun Type:

Soviet 76.2mm F-34 L/41.5 OF-350

AP BR-354P 500m=71 mm pen 1000m =51mm pen 2000m=40mm pen

AP Subcaliber 500m=100mm 1000m=51mm pen


German 75mm KwK 40 L/48

PzGr 39 AP 500m=114mm 1000m=85mm 2000m=64mm

PzGr 40 AP Subcaliber 500m=143mm 1000m=97mm 2000m=n/a

American 75mm M3 L/37.5

M72 AP 500m=66mm pen 1000m=60mm 2000m=50mm

thanks Tiger!


[/url][/list]
_________________
WW2 WAR GAMER SINCE 1972




A played the AI today to test the mkiv 6 times 15 mkiv vs all the shermans i could get on map 11, plus some others , replayed and replayed.
it very much looks like the mkiv is under gunned all the gun duels were lost!!

1.15 mk4s down to 9kills

2.15 mk4s down to 11 kills

3.15 mk4 down to 8 kills

4. 15 mk4 down to 12 kills

5. 15 mks down to 10 kills


6. 15 mks down to 13 kills

off course some were tracked and gun were shot off.. putting them out.

The Mkiv gun should be about 35% more power full than the Shermans gun!
mkiv armor is 80mm front hull Sherman 75mm with a slop makes Sherman better in front armor but Sherman is much taller target!

would like to see a little improvement to this gun in relation to sherman!

German optics were better

The sherman had advantages over the MKIV but not in its gunnery.

was able to kill Sherman 1,500m

The MKIV is being out shot from what i can see, slap me if am wrong.

I play allied and German in the 2 campaigns i have going with Markm

Tiger!
_________________
WW2 WAR GAMER SINCE 1972
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:18 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

To check yer stats, i've decided to test:

1st Test.

15 PzIVH vs 12 Sherman VDD + 3 Sherman VC.

I deployed my PzIVH on the left and started my attack



1st Sherman got immob and then killed after short exchange (1 PzIVH immob)


Unfortunately VC was there:


Something invisible has immob and then destroyed another PzIVH


Another Sherman killed


Hvy firefite




VC is destroyed (it has already killed 3 PzIVH)!


Another PzIVH is lost...now due to 1 way LOS.


2nd VC is destroyed!


another Sherman!


And another one!


Battle ended becoz time has ran out.
Results:


U can c 7+4 vs 9+3 despite i was attacking Wink.


Last edited by Dima on Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:11 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:38 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Test 2

15 PzIVH vs 15 Sherman V

Deployment (decided to not chnge anything)


First loss at 14:54


and another one...


again...


1st Sherman has exploded.


2nd


3rd, 4th


5th


6th


7th


8th


1 PzIV flanked Shermans and attacked 3 of them
9th


and 10th


11th


and 12th


AI's morale has dropped too low


4+2 vs 14 Smile.


Last edited by Dima on Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:44 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

So Tiger, looks like u either always have v bad luck or just use PzIV in wrong way Smile.

Now some comments:
Quote:
German optics were better

at less than 600m it didn't play much role.

Quote:
mkiv armor is 80mm

only frontal hull
frontal turret was 50mm.

Quote:
The sherman had advantages over the MKIV but not in its gunnery.

faster rate of fire Wink.

Quote:
was able to kill Sherman 1,500m

maybe at side....but first PzIV needed to hit at 1500m Smile

Quote:
The MKIV is being out shot from what i can see, slap me if am wrong.

quite on the contrary according to my experience Smile.

Quote:
I play allied and German in the 2 campaigns i have going with Markm

i've been played as allies vs AJ till June 24th and i was v v afraid to engage PzIV with Sherman 1 on 1. Tho it was pretty safe to do it with VC at med-long ranges Wink
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tigercub

Rep: 23.5
votes: 2


PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:20 am Post subject: thanks for test! Reply with quote

my testing was all close street fighting not more than 200m... i failed to tell you that bit, and that would help the Sherman a bit as well.

just info I have information that a good number of MKIVH had 30mm plates bolted or welded onto the front of MKIVH hull, making there hull armor to 115mm wow! thicker than the tiger!


The best Target is the one you just Hit!

Started with CC1 Demo
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ANZAC_Tack

Rep: 22.3
votes: 1


PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:52 am Post subject: i agree Reply with quote

as i stated before, the sherman wins most contacts with mkiv,i would of put it at 45% if 1 on 1,but i dont fight like that. but i have been winning some 70% so far.

i was always under the impression the sherman gyro improved firing on the move, and the sights where quite accurate,i was to understand comprable to german sights. but at ranges of 1000M+ i would say germans always have the drop.

also does the sherman not also have faster turrent? i think it helps me quite considerably when i can turn a corner and fire first, maybe why i win so much more then not as allies. i'd liek to see a captured sherman later on ;o) good idea then. like old cc3 RR, T5 Pantera, germans usually beat it due to training/moral though.


espree de corp
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:16 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
my testing was all close street fighting not more than 200m... i failed to tell you that bit, and that would help the Sherman a bit as well.

at less than 200m both tanx have quite same chnces. maybe Sherman has even more due to faster RoF.


Quote:
just info I have information that a good number of MKIVH had 30mm plates bolted or welded onto the front of MKIVH hull, making there hull armor to 115mm wow! thicker than the tiger!

that's pretty impossible as tank would break down...too hvy pressure on front rollers...that was the main reason why the couldn't increase turret armour from 50mm.

and btw 50mm+30mm is not equal to 80mm in terms of protection...

Quote:
but at ranges of 1000M+ i would say germans always have the drop.

at more than around 600-650m Smile. Sherman was just unable to fire further with direct shot. Same for T34 and other allied tanx Wink.

Quote:
i was always under the impression the sherman gyro improved firing on the move, and the sights where quite accurate

true.

Quote:
also does the sherman not also have faster turrent?

yes it does Smile.
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tigercub

Rep: 23.5
votes: 2


PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:42 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
just info I have information that a good number of MKIVH had 30mm plates bolted or welded onto the front of MKIVH hull, making there hull armor to 115mm wow! thicker than the tiger!

that's pretty impossible as tank would break down...too hvy pressure on front rollers...that was the main reason why the couldn't increase turret armour from 50mm.

I think you will find that the armor that was fitted was put onto the drivers plate only my best guess!

and btw 50mm+30mm is not equal to 80mm in terms of protection...

i was always under the impression the sherman gyro improved firing on the move, and the sights where quite accurate[/quote]
true.

also the US crew use to disarm the gyro because of problems with it.


The best Target is the one you just Hit!

Started with CC1 Demo
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:51 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I think you will find that the armor that was fitted was put onto the drivers plate only my best guess!

well i have never met docs/books that stated PzIVH to have additional 30mm armor applied to it's 80mm.
Actually 75mm M3/MkV, 76mm F-34/ZIS-5 couldn't penetrate 80mm of german armor at ranges more than 100-150m with regular ammunition, so the question is why would they increase the armor if it was virtually impenetratable at most combat distances?

Quote:
also the US crew use to disarm the gyro because of problems with it.

yes it was hard to maitenance, but experienced crews used it with success ob both Stuart and Sherman Smile.
Just think why they didn't remove it from production versions if it was useless? Tho brit conversions didn't have it.
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tigercub

Rep: 23.5
votes: 2


PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 1:09 am Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you will find that the armor that was fitted was put onto the drivers plate only my best guess!
well i have never met docs/books that stated PzIVH to have additional 30mm armor applied to it's 80mm.
Actually 75mm M3/MkV, 76mm F-34/ZIS-5 couldn't penetrate 80mm of german armor at ranges more than 100-150m with regular ammunition, so the question is why would they increase the armor if it was virtually impenetratable at most combat distances?

I dont know its just the info i have on it,this being the case you my have MKIV to easy to kill by Sherman standard round?
info source Purnell`s History German Tanks 1939-45.

Tiger!

Wink


The best Target is the one you just Hit!

Started with CC1 Demo


Last edited by tigercub on Fri Sep 21, 2007 1:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 1:15 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I dont know its just the info i have on it,this being the case you my have MKIV to easy to kill by sherman standard round?

knew u'd ask that question.
as i told earlier PzIVG-J had 50mm frontal turret armor so when 75mm Sherman gun hit turret, PzIV doesn't have much chnces (although at med-long distances it almost always results to the disabling of the gun instead of destroying tank).
The chnce to hit turret is much lesser than to hit hull but the less distance the more chances has Sherman/Cromwell/Churchill/Stuart to hit turret.


btw, tip for u:
Sherman II in TRSM is most armored Sherman as 4th ABDE was reequipped with v late Sherman II prior to Normandy landing.
Other Shermans r of early production series and have many flaws thus r not hard to destroy.
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ActionJacksonDX

Rep: 15.5
votes: 1


PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: Panzer voran! Reply with quote

mb 88 accuracy is a bit high? so far, for unsuppressed shots, i have a 1-shot-kill-rating of 90% or so
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:01 am Post subject: Re: Panzer voran! Reply with quote

Quote:
mb 88 accuracy is a bit high? so far, for unsuppressed shots, i have a 1-shot-kill-rating of 90% or so

from Jentz:
8.8cm PzGr.39/43 (the one is used in TRSM)
Range Accuracy (training/combat)
100m     100%/100%
500m     100%/100%
1000m    100%/85%
1500m     95%/61%

:).
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