Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:27 pm Post subject: SOC Stratmap Graphics
Hi to all,
SOC is now under final development. All the maps are painted and coded, the datas look fine, somesounds have been ameliorated etc....
I came then to this old question: How/why to improve the Graphics of a winter mod stratmap when this sîlly CC5.exe (made for summermods) kills everything you make when you attempt to do a CC5 wintermod?
I developed SDK with this in mind.
Then, SOC.
Then, Some of CC players complained about the "poor" SDK stratmap.... Only a few of them, I believ, did understand that the problem was not PJ's lazyness but a real problem, inside the C5.exe.
OK. When moding SOC, I came to the conclusion that, even not good, I could make a 3D like Stratmap for SOC. I worked a lot on it and, even not completed, I can show you a part of the result. The maps holded by Germans are a little blue, the maps divided between are a little red, the russian ones are, OF COURSE, green.
Just let me know if you like this kind of graphics and, ultimately, KILLLLLLLLL these stupid CC5 developers who didn't know that WW2 was as well in.....WINTER.
So tehy still had panzerregiments there? Regiment might be 2 tanks?
Depending on the difficulty level you will choose, some panzerdivision units will have still available between 1 and 3 tanks of some types....as historically
So tehy still had panzerregiments there? Regiment might be 2 tanks?
Depending on the difficulty level you will choose, some panzerdivision units will have still available between 1 and 3 tanks of some types....as historically
PJ
That's a little understrenght division there. Didn't the german panzerdivision consist of 300 armor and some panzergrenadier and support units(sdkfz's)?
So tehy still had panzerregiments there? Regiment might be 2 tanks?
Depending on the difficulty level you will choose, some panzerdivision units will have still available between 1 and 3 tanks of some types....as historically
PJ
That's a little understrenght division there. Didn't the german panzerdivision consist of 300 armor and some panzergrenadier and support units(sdkfz's)?
How can you say that this regiment is overstrenght when you haven't seen anything about the mod??????
It is easy to criticise, much more difficullt to built something.
If you knew the Stalingrad battle, you should be aware that some german units still have tanks and some vehicles by january 10th... Very little ammo, very little fuel...as it will be in the mod.
If you have something to suggest and if you know the Stalingrad battle better than me, just contact me and make the mod by yourself.
Not too sure of the 'paper' strenght of a Panzergrenadier division, but I thought that in the field they included one tank or assault gun battalion, occasionally this would be increased to 2 (this is for the line divisions as opposed to the elite or SS variants). Approximate strenght of a battalion would be 100-120.
However during the preparations for the planned breakout operation 'Thunderclap', the purpose of which was to link up with the forces of Mansteins 'Winterstorm' relief operation in mid December '42, it was estimated that there were 70 tank/assault guns in the entire 6th Army. These had enough fuel for approximately 12 miles of travel, and limited ammunition.
One would hardly expect this situation to have improved a month later. therefore a VERY limited number of German AFVs seems fairly resonable to me.
Cheers
Ronson
PS. coming back to subject......maps look excellent
So tehy still had panzerregiments there? Regiment might be 2 tanks?
Depending on the difficulty level you will choose, some panzerdivision units will have still available between 1 and 3 tanks of some types....as historically
PJ
That's a little understrenght division there. Didn't the german panzerdivision consist of 300 armor and some panzergrenadier and support units(sdkfz's)? <-Ok this was irony/sarcasm, whatever. It was supposed to make you think about the losses they've had.
How can you say that this regiment is overstrenght when you haven't seen anything about the mod??????
It is easy to criticise, much more difficullt to built something.
If you knew the Stalingrad battle, you should be aware that some german units still have tanks and some vehicles by january 10th... Very little ammo, very little fuel...as it will be in the mod.
If you have something to suggest and if you know the Stalingrad battle better than me, just contact me and make the mod by yourself.
I didn't critisize you. Just maybe our english skills clashed and made you think i'd critize you. After all you're french and i'm finnish.
Last edited by Searry on Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:26 pm; edited 2 times in total
Not too sure of the 'paper' strenght of a Panzergrenadier division, but I thought that in the field they included one tank or assault gun battalion, occasionally this would be increased to 2 (this is for the line divisions as opposed to the elite or SS variants). Approximate strenght of a battalion would be 100-120.
However during the preparations for the planned breakout operation 'Thunderclap', the purpose of which was to link up with the forces of Mansteins 'Winterstorm' relief operation in mid December '42, it was estimated that there were 70 tank/assault guns in the entire 6th Army. These had enough fuel for approximately 12 miles of travel, and limited ammunition.
One would hardly expect this situation to have improved a month later. therefore a VERY limited number of German AFVs seems fairly resonable to me.
Cheers
Ronson
PS. coming back to subject......maps look excellent
Completly agree with you. On December 24th, when Winterstorm finished, there was something like 60 to 70 tanks in the Kessel. We can be sure of that when reading a lot of different sources.
On January 10th, it is generally admitted that the total number was around 40 to 45 (not much lower compared to the number of 24 december, but the period between the two dates was relatively calm for two reasons:
1) The russians were preparing Operation Circle and were grouping their forces all around the Kessel.
2) At this time, a lot of russian forces were engaged in the Small Saturn Operation, so they were less active on the Kessel Front.
I have made the mod so that the total number of tanks will be on the Veteran level of difficulty (the medium one) at about 40 to 45,as historically. On the recruit level,they will be somewhat more numerous, and less numerous at the Hero level.
Of course, what the level is, the ammo level will be low (25 to 30% of the normal).
I don't see here something which is against the historical reality.
Last, I would like to recall to all of you that making the 6th Army too weak on the January 10th is an historical mistake, if not a legend. Don't forget that:
- During the first 3 days of Circle, the Soviets lost 26000 men and HALF of their tanks.
I don'' believe that they were killed with Swiss knives....
So tehy still had panzerregiments there? Regiment might be 2 tanks?
Depending on the difficulty level you will choose, some panzerdivision units will have still available between 1 and 3 tanks of some types....as historically
PJ
That's a little understrenght division there. Didn't the german panzerdivision consist of 300 armor and some panzergrenadier and support units(sdkfz's)? <-Ok this was irony/sarcasm, whatever. It was supposed to make you think about the losses they've had.
How can you say that this regiment is overstrenght when you haven't seen anything about the mod??????
It is easy to criticise, much more difficullt to built something.
If you knew the Stalingrad battle, you should be aware that some german units still have tanks and some vehicles by january 10th... Very little ammo, very little fuel...as it will be in the mod.
If you have something to suggest and if you know the Stalingrad battle better than me, just contact me and make the mod by yourself.
I didn't critisize you. Just maybe our english skills clashed and made you think i'd critize you. After all you're french and i'm finnish.
Hi friend Searry,
At least we are both of us.....( ), ...at least not english. Let's forget that. I hope that you have read my answer of today regarding the German forces in the Kessel by january 10th'43. You can see that SOC will be historically (not politically!) correct. You can be sure of that.
Regarding the PzD36, once again, it was a very very weak regiment on january 10th but still existed!!! If you have some suggestions to rename it -ideally with a Kampfgruppe with the Kampfgrupe BG Icon-, .....go for it! SOC will feature 4 KG's and I am not against a 5th one....if you can provide me with the picture of the leader. (If you are still ready to be one of my Beta-testers, you will understand why I need the picture of the KG leader...!)
That's all for now. I will finish this sratmap this weak -I hope-! Then after, it will be the time to improve some graphics and write the btd texts.
The beta mod should be available very soon now. If you are still on the tracks, just let me know. Polemarchos is obviously on the top of the list, with you it will be 3 (I exist!)
And if 1 or 2 more of you want to be part of the testing team, just send me a PM.
Cheers to all of you and don't forget: Critisism is OK IF there is a suggestion behind.
Had the mod been done originally for CCIV instead of CCV you would have been able to edit each and every aspect of the shadding for the controled areas and then I wouldnt have mentioned /complained about it.
You could even have a totally different graphic if you wanted.
p.s.
What you have looks good though,how can anyone really complain?
It's not like anyone else is spitting mods out like you are Jager.
You are a machine.
Had the mod been done originally for CCIV instead of CCV you would have been able to edit each and every aspect of the shadding for the controled areas and then I wouldnt have mentioned /complained about it.
You could even have a totally different graphic if you wanted.
Platoon,
I TOTALLY agree with you! CC4 is the best of all the CC versions and SOC would have been even better with CC4.
BUT I CAN'T EDIT A STRATMAP in CC4!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AFAIK, there isn't any program to edit a CC4 stratmap!!!
If I am wrong and if you know how to do it, tell me. THen:
1) SOC will be the best mod ever
2) PM will be the developer
What else?
Cheers
PJ
p.s.
What you have looks good though,how can anyone really complain?
It's not like anyone else is spitting mods out like you are Jager.
You are a machine.[/quote]
PM the developer?
I surly hope that doesnt mean: Platoon_Michael will make the mod?
The programs one needs to import a new strategic map into CCIV are:
StratEditFinal for CCIV
And Mafis RTBTool.
The readme file is a little sloppy in that Aetius was able to provde me with new information after I had written it.
I just never got around to editing the readme file to read correctly.
But it does work.
As you can see I just used insiginas star/cross to display the controled areas and not shadding them red/green.But you could use anything as CCIV has seperate images to be displayed for the stratmap
PM the developer?
I surly hope that doesnt mean: Platoon_Michael will make the mod?
The programs one needs to import a new strategic map into CCIV are:
StratEditFinal for CCIV
And Mafis RTBTool.
The readme file is a little sloppy in that Aetius was able to provde me with new information after I had written it.
I just never got around to editing the readme file to read correctly.
But it does work.
As you can see I just used insiginas star/cross to display the controled areas and not shadding them red/green.But you could use anything as CCIV has seperate images to be displayed for the stratmap
This looks absolutely fantastic but, as you say, I don't understand anything.
Friend, if you or the people who made this want to make SOC a CC4 mod, I totally agree, but I just need help. Of course, you will not be the developer. But you have to know that I am not a specialist in computers....
I can do all the job, but just help me...
Cheers
PJ
P.S. Once again, CC4 is the best of all. We all know that.
P.S.2. WHY this Sratmap Tool has NOT been used until now???? I don't understand!!
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum You cannot attach files in this forum You can download files in this forum
In August of 2004, Zappi, Homba, Bambam887, RedScorpion and MOOXE all pitched
in to create this Close Combat site. I would to thank all the people who have visited
and found this site to thier liking. I hope you had time to check out some
of the great Close Combat mods and our forums. I'd also like to thank
all the members of our volunteer staff that have helped over
the years, and all our users that contributed to this site!
