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ZAPPI4

Rep: 33.3
votes: 2


PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:37 pm Post subject: Some Units tips. Reply with quote

Hi all.

I ll send to you some tips for  units.
i ll start with vehicles and guns.
Some, for sure, are  used by u already. But maybe some not.
i hope to see growing with all your own tips
and then mading this post really interesting for everyone.

Anti Tank gun :
On deploy:

Some position cant be fitted if your ATg isnt in ambush. On some map, the gun
will not enter the house or bunker position if he is on defend or without status.
Even; sometime rotating may place the gun differently into the
house or bunker. Some position into the house unable to reached are free after
rotated the gun or changing status from defend and ambush.
Some line of los closed in left side position will turn clear
after rotating the gun or changed status , because the gun had moved a few.

Dont place a gun without inftry support. This inftry must be placed between
the gun and the supposed enemy advanced. This is the same tips for any
mechanized Gun.

Battlefield:

When u use a gun to fire. It load automativcly the same ammunition he used
to fire right before if he still v got the same. Many ATgun get some AI ammo.
If u open fire versus infantry with them, and if enemy tank bring on your
line of los, your gun will be surely lost. As it will not open fire with AI
ammo versus a tank, except if it s the only ammo resting to the gun.
Then he will reload the gun to use the right ammo.
I saw some gun, heavy, dont waste the time to reload and used their AI
ammo versus the tanks.

Armored tank and vehicles:
On deploy:

i always verify what hedge, wall, roc etc can be crossed at deploy. Simply
by placed the vehicle along the way i want to check. If i can build a "way"
like this, the vehicle will get passage there. Dont forgot, crossing hedge,
wall, roc etc may immobilized your vehicle. Even mine are hidden on some
map in many hedge.

On some mod, tank can fit into house. I dont like to use this way, as my tank
began a simple AT/AI Gun stucked in a house. But when it's time to defend,
a wall is a good extra protection.

On battlefield:

A tank cant detect ambushed or sneaking infantry before than this inftry
able to use any close AT weapon. Using support infantry for any tank
advance are a good point. The distance between them must be at least the
supposed any AT weapon range.

Dont forget, your tank in ambush will not open fire with the main gun.
It's good to know when enemy bring infantry to force any tank in defend
firing and then bring his own tank to attack.

Vehicles got a better face armor. When u attack a tank, try to be face of
your target. If u attack or are under multi tank attack, try to face off the
stronger tank, and firing first on it. Be aware about the enemy status,
place the cursor on the target and check out the weapon range bar.
on the bottom bar, 2 yellow means surely than this target lost his main gun.

Common tips :  

Use the F5 and F7 hotkey. ( i settled my mouse for this hotkey).
F5 will open the Bg units status bar. Each of your troops will be there.
U can easily see how are your troops. I use it mainly to deploy. Then i'm sure
to dont forget to place a unit.
F7 is the hotkey than i use the most. I mainly open and close it to keep a clear
battlefield. This hotkey will show you the units' crew status. This is good to
know if all your soldier get a los on the target, who dont see it (then move
some meters your units to get it back on los). Who is uncounscious, heroic...
use the common hotkey ...
Z = Move
M = Ambush
X = Run
C = Sneak
V = Fire
B = Smoke
N = Defend
Space bar = under commanding units area


Tout est possible ... il faut juste connaitre quand.


Last edited by ZAPPI4 on Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Pzt_Kevin_dtn

Rep: 10.9


PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:10 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Hot Key Setup - you can setup a hotkey for an individual/multiple unit(s).
1. select a unit(s)
2. select and hold the ctrl key and then select one of the number keys.

Now everytime you select the designated key it will bring up the hotkeyed unit(s).

I do this for my Mortars by hotkeying them to #1 and then hit the V (Fire) to place mortar fire down on moving infantry in rapid manner. Saves me the trouble of having to find my mortar unit, select fire, and then scroll to the target.
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Roel




PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:23 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Pzt_Kevin_dtn wrote:
Hot Key Setup - you can setup a hotkey for an individual/multiple unit(s).
1. select a unit(s)
2. select and hold the ctrl key and then select one of the number keys.

Now everytime you select the designated key it will bring up the hotkeyed unit(s).

I do this for my Mortars by hotkeying them to #1 and then hit the V (Fire) to place mortar fire down on moving infantry in rapid manner. Saves me the trouble of having to find my mortar unit, select fire, and then scroll to the target.


On larger maps, I tend to do this for all important support weapons (AT guns, mortars, MGs, ...)... especially when reaction time is important (ie vs humans). Knowing & using hotkeys (also the ones for reverting to defend or ambush) can often make a big difference in the heat of the fight...

Example for AT-gun tactics: start in Ambush mode. If you have a clear shot and are able to kill the enemy vehicle, switch briefly to defend and immediately back to ambush. The gun will start aiming and will fire. At the same time, you will considerably reduce chances that the gun is spotted. For optimal effect, do not fire again immediately (your enemy will be looking for the muzzle flash) unless you are confident of the kill or if you suspect you've been spotted. To confuse the attacker, switch defensive fire to another sector of the front.

For H2H play, an essential tip while in defense: if you consider yourself outgunned at start, avoid direct lines of fire whenever possible. Support weapons should be placed obliquely to and out of direct LOS from the enemy line of advance. Same goes for infantry squads: placing them out of direct LOS (fi at the back of a house) will greatly increase kill capacity. You only need one well-placed unit to spot enemy units and make them visible for all your teams.

And as H2H attacker, of course: concentrate, concentrate, concentrate.

Roel
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tripwire

Rep: 37.5
votes: 2


PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:51 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Great tips, guys! This is a superb idea for some of us less than swift.

Thank you ZAPPI4, Pzt_Kevin_dtn and Roel. Smile
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ZAPPI4

Rep: 33.3
votes: 2


PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:56 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Melting pot :

Placing infantry into a upper floor house is a good point. U ll see enemy
who move stand up easily without been detected. Vehicle will be detected
too, even if they dont move. ( except if they are on ambush, well hidden).
But then your troops placed on this upper floor risk any possible blind tank
attack. In fact many player firing blindly in what he suppose to be a nice
point of view.

A good trap for Tank is placing a AT gun with a maximum line of los at
180° if possible. Place infantry hidden 100meters of ATgun position. Use some
units hidden all around the 180° of ATgun los. Those infantry are
there to stop enemy infantry and force tank to come to unblock the way.
Put Mg close to the AT gun ( 50 ms, no less) with a clear line of sight to
your trapped infantry. The way is to move back your infantry once they are
in enemy contact. enemy will bring to attack them and then will be under
Mg firing. U ll see very soon a tank coming and trying to clear the field to let
his inftry advance by killing the Mg and or killing your inftry. Your inftry
must be saved, or u ll be not able to detect anything more.

Zooka and Piat are good versus tank. But they can do the same effect versus infantry.
Dont be affraid to waste your ammo if no enemy tank are on the battlefield.
Firing indirectly to enemy infantry hidden in a house may do many dommage

Mortar units are good to defend deeped own Vl. I mainly use them far away
from front line. well hidden side of a vl exit road. If your line are crushed,
your mortar may defend it enought to keep it your.

Sniper cannot grab Vl or expand deploy even if they sneak in the whole map.

Your command infantry must be always placed in the heart of a grap of units.
To get his moral influence better. If u assault with a command supported by
other infantry units assault, your other units will be more influenced, and will
keep their moral better and longer. As long as the command units still alive.

Avoid to pass where your infantry was massacred. When soldier cross an area
where a lot of friend soldier corps are, his moral may go down.

When u run with a units, his capacity to firing are reduced. It's always
better to assault by using run as long as your units isnt in contact. Once
contact is done,use the move order. Move order will let your soldier firing
normaly. ( grenade etc...)

Each time units grab Vl, this units will get a " act of bravey " on the medal
screen after the battle. I mainly try to secure vl with my ost, unexperienced
units. Getting act of bravery will boost their moral and experience.

Flammer infantry can lost their flam weapon ( lost or break) if you run them.
They can lost it too under mortar, artylley, air strike, naval attack. Be carrefull
with them when u move to contact, as i saw many time my flammer came
close his target and flammer dont use the flame weapon cos this one is out.
What a pitty when all u v got to stop the tank is this flammer.

When your infantry are out of ammo, with light weapon, etc... U can try to
grab friend or enemy ammo, weapon by sneaking all around death. Sneak
around and place the units on ambush on the corps. open the F7 option.
It's always funny to see a Mg units with crew equiped with zooka. It dont
work everytime, but working only one time may be enought to stop enemy.

Your Gun ( AT/AIgun, Halftrack, tank etc) can firing better if you place them
on defend status. By this way, the gun will open fire when he decide, what
mean when he get the right aiming.

The better way to kill enemy infantry is to use the maximum of weapon on it.
when u v got multiple defender versus multiple attacker, it's always better to
firing with all of them on the same enemy units. Once it's killed, change target.
Sometime this enemy will suffer no death whatever the number of weapon
firing on it. In this case, just change target.

Sometime, under enemy heavy attack, it's better to move back units and let
some of your defender been killed. Enemy will thinking he opened the line.
Mainly the opponent will move his troops in the hole. Then u ll get all the
time to reenforce the sector of map and trap enemy into your line to kill
them. You can run inftry at opposit of this sector right to this sector, then
enemy will really think that this sector is opened and will fail on the trap.

Use the micromanagement. whatever you are doing, use it. Especially when
u move vehicle. All know how the vehicle can react to drive some meters.
Usually, keep an eyes on them and dont use the point of way to move your
vehicles. It's always better to move them by small jump.

Movement order for vehicle are really specific. Ordered to move will force
the vehicle to stand face off the target. Move fast will let vehicle
driving and deciding how to reach traget. Sneaking back movement
to a vehicle and he will driving back. Sneaking straight up movement, and
the vehicle will drive closely, carrefully.

A defending vehicle will get a better chance to detect any enemy sneaking
around. But he will be more vulnerable facing a grenade attack.

Take some eat and drink, dont use a bottle when u want a toilet. Keep
some free time for your lady and kids. Dont eat exclusivly pizza and burger.
If you v got a job, be warning, 5 sleep hours isnt enought.
Very Happy

Now i have to think about if i didnt said too much

:shame


Tout est possible ... il faut juste connaitre quand.
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Xabranyol




PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:56 pm Post subject: More unit thoughts Reply with quote

Here are a few more thoughts . . .

1) Use bazzoka or other AT teams against cannons. I was playing a rather long time before I realized that they destroy cannons in one clean shot. So do what you can to get the cannon revealed, sneak up an AT team and one shot later your tank path is clear.

2) Don't discount mortar's on tanks. Of course they work decent on open topped tanks. They're also not bad against light tanks or the old french tanks. The heavy mortars (Chemical or 120 mm) can also damage Stuart or Sherman's. It can take a lot of shells to get an effect and sometimes you don't do more than damage them, but a damaged or immobalized tank is nearly as good as useless in many situations.

3) Put snipers on defend rather than ambush. They're smart enough to stay hidden and will fire at longer range targets. I thought snipers were useless until I read this tip somewhere.

4) Flame and Assault team positions. Use the F7 view to see which exact guys is carrying the flame thrower. Make sure he is within 30 m of the target position. You can move a squad into a building or hedge, move them off and move them back on and the flamethrower guy might be in a different spot even if the team deploys the exact same way. Use this to make sure the flamethrower's LOS isn't blocked by teammates or further away than rest of squad. Nothing is more frustrating than a failed flame attempt that could have completely saved your guys.
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Roel




PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:07 pm Post subject: Re: More unit thoughts Reply with quote

Xabranyol wrote:
Here are a few more thoughts . . .

1) Use bazzoka or other AT teams against cannons. I was playing a rather long time before I realized that they destroy cannons in one clean shot. So do what you can to get the cannon revealed, sneak up an AT team and one shot later your tank path is clear.

2) Don't discount mortar's on tanks. Of course they work decent on open topped tanks. They're also not bad against light tanks or the old french tanks. The heavy mortars (Chemical or 120 mm) can also damage Stuart or Sherman's. It can take a lot of shells to get an effect and sometimes you don't do more than damage them, but a damaged or immobalized tank is nearly as good as useless in many situations.

3) Put snipers on defend rather than ambush. They're smart enough to stay hidden and will fire at longer range targets. I thought snipers were useless until I read this tip somewhere.

4) Flame and Assault team positions. Use the F7 view to see which exact guys is carrying the flame thrower. Make sure he is within 30 m of the target position. You can move a squad into a building or hedge, move them off and move them back on and the flamethrower guy might be in a different spot even if the team deploys the exact same way. Use this to make sure the flamethrower's LOS isn't blocked by teammates or further away than rest of squad. Nothing is more frustrating than a failed flame attempt that could have completely saved your guys.


A couple more tips. I'll focus on H2H play as defender in a grand campaign (objectives and tactics are very different in single battles).
I won't include mod-specific tips, just some overall things to keep in mind.
(many tips can be used for play vs AI as well) This is just from my own experience, you might disagree.

* Before starting the battle, you should have a clear idea on what you want to achieve. No, it's not business peptalk Smile , you just can't defend everything. In a grand campaign, the focus should definitely be on exit Victory Locations. Denying a particular exit VL to your enemy is often much more rewarding than holding on to as much terrain as possible. Knowledge of the strategic map and its connections, and of the location of exit/entry VLs on connecting maps is critical.

* Being able to spot the attacker while remaining hidden yourself is very important. As stated before, one well-placed spotting unit can bring invaluable information on the direction and forces of the enemy attack. This gives you time to adjust positions and shift reserves accordingly.

* Whenever possible and unless absolutely necessary, try to avoid placing units where they don't have an easy-to-reach fallback position. In view of the importance of attrition in a GC, being able to fight another day is more important than keeping on to a particular stretch of terrain.

* Keep a healthy reserve of units in the back. Many H2H battles will end with both sides down to a few teams. A reserve team will often be able to achieve things (capture key terrain, eliminate or capture high-value enemy units) way out of proportion to its size or value. Keeping reserves is also the best way to cope with a concentrated attack. Again, giving up terrain is less important than maximizing enemy casualties and minimizing your own. Last, keeping a reserve allows you to counterattack if necessary.

* Always try to get local firepower superiority, even if you're outgunned globally. While the attacker gets to choose the initial point of attack, the defender very often chooses where the firing begins. Achieving local firepower superiority means placing your support teams with overlapping fields of fire and in mutual support of each other. Placing units out of LOS (on a reverse slope, in the back of a house) will minimize the support your enemy can give to his advancing units.

* All the above favors an oblique (or 'indirect', as Liddell Hart would say) setup. I don't think this is just academic. You force your enemy to move out and thus become disorganized. You optimize your chances for a succesful shoutout. For AT weapons, this is even more important: not only will you most probably get the first shot, by setting up obliquely to the line of advance, your chances for a side or rear shot increase significantly. Moreover, the attacker will not be able to bring supporting fire (except indirect fire) into play immediately.
By keeping your units out of direct LOS, you can economize your forces, since you can always decide to fall back and fight in a better position, or to counterattack isolated advancing units.


Whenever I play a GC battle nowadays, I always go through a couple of steps before starting a battle. Many of the above principles are used:

1. Keep the grand strategic picture in mind. Don't just defend everything, link your defense to an overall strategy. Attrition rates are very important in grand campaigns, since you will most of the times not be able to bring numerical superiority into play during tactical battles. Therefore, choose your fights carefully. In my opinion, giving up a map to be able to be defender on another one is preferable to risking a meeting engagement (unless of course if you have superior mobility and/or forces).

2. Check deployment zones, even to the extent of 'pre-playing' the battle, to see where exactly the enemy entry zone is located. Most of the time, I will already know possible entry zones one turn in advance. (this is even more important in Meeting Engagements)

3. Study the battle map. Try to put yourself in the attacker's position: what would you try to achieve, and how would you get there? Like this, you can form an idea of the most likely enemy line of advance. Look for chokepoints that can be defended easily, and for fallback positions behind your first line of defense. Look out for good but not too obvious spotting points. More important, look for good fire angles; out of direct LOS of the approaching units. If you can force the attacker to follow the line of advance you intend him to, the battle is already half won.

4. Determine what you will defend, and the relative importance of your defensive objectives. Also determine the type of defense you want to establish. Will it be a fight to the death, or merely a flexible fighting withdrawal? If the map has little strategic importance, it's probably better not to sacrifice valuable units for it. This should be linked to your overall strategy. Will your defence be primarily AT, anti-infantry or both?

5. Determine your team mix according to the positions you chose to defend (f.i. if you have only 2 concentrations of defense, I rarely choose a third command team; that team slot can be put to better use). Support units should have enough line units protecting them. Balancing your battlegroup is an art in itself, maybe I'll include some unit-specific tips later.

6. In the deployment phase, I start in the overview map by roughly dividing my forces according to the priority of my defensive objectives and the type of attack expected (infantry, armor or both). It's always a good idea to first assign your direct support units (MGs, snipers, guns, ...) before assigning line units. I don't bother yet where exactly the unit is placed, just a general area will do.

7. Once the overall distribution of forces is finished, I switch to the normal view to micromanage the setup locations: checking out LOS, fine-tuning the setup of your teams (fi make sure that the gunner of an MG team is not located in the back, or that all soldiers of a team lying in a house are out of LOS). Most units in defense mode will start in Ambush mode, but there are exceptions. Units that have no or very little hiding capabilty (vehicles, guns on roads, ...) should be in Defence mode. Avoid having to Move units too fast.

8. As mentioned before: assign shortcuts, at least to mortar teams, but preferable to all important support weapons. Especially on large maps, this makes a difference. Learn to use all shortcut combinations.

9. If you expect immediate action, pre-select the team that needs to react quickly before hitting the 'start battle' button. If you did the setup according to the above indirect principles, this is unlikely, but in continued battles it might be unavoidable.

That's all for now. If somebody is interested, I'll do a next post on unit-specific tips, and on attack strategy and meeting engaments.

Cheers,

Roel
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buuface

Rep: 56.4
votes: 1


PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:12 am Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for the tips guys
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Dauphin

Rep: 12.2
votes: 1


PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:33 pm Post subject: Re: Some Units tips. Reply with quote

Does ranks have any influence or are they just cosmetics ?
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mooxe

Rep: 213.1
votes: 25


PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:35 pm Post subject: Re: Some Units tips. Reply with quote

Higher ranks usually have higher characteristics levels, they come hand in hand. Higher ranks also have a larger command radius.


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Dauphin

Rep: 12.2
votes: 1


PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:37 pm Post subject: Re: Some Units tips. Reply with quote

I have difficulties to understand the evolution of characteristics.
Sometimes I see units with lower ranks that progress faster than  higher ranks units
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mooxe

Rep: 213.1
votes: 25


PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:55 pm Post subject: Re: Some Units tips. Reply with quote

Well they are characteristics specific to that soldier. I suppose one may gain more intelligence faster than a higher ranked person.... I have no idea how CC calculates it all. I doubt anyone has the answer.


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platoon_michael

Rep: 47.6
votes: 25


PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:40 am Post subject: Re: Some Units tips. Reply with quote

Cant get that enemy BG off your map?

No problem,

When you come up against an enemy BG that you just know theres no way your going to win,play one maybe 2 battles depending on your teams strength and then on the next strategic moves move that BG off and replace it with another one.

I know, your saying Gee Mike thats not that hard to figure out.
But

If your new BG enters from the same VL position that the enemy BG entered from it can have some pretty devistating effects on the deployment for that enemy BG.

Example:
No way was I going to defeat CCB/7 AD with the German BG that "was" on the map (295/18th VG)
So I moved Peiper into Beho from the North,first picture is how the map was held by the
295/18 VG



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platoon_michael

Rep: 47.6
votes: 25


PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:43 am Post subject: Re: Some Units tips. Reply with quote

And now the deployment the Allies end up with "after" Peiper was moved into Beho.
The AI kept all of it's forces to the right of the map wich made it even that much easier to take.

Note:
You will not see your new deployment untill you start the Battle.The game always displays the previous holding of both Teams for the map



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yuma

Rep: 11.6


PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 12:36 pm Post subject: Re: Some Units tips. Reply with quote

nice one micheal....2 excellent screen captures to show it too.
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platoon_michael

Rep: 47.6
votes: 25


PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 2:48 pm Post subject: Re: Some Units tips. Reply with quote

thanks,
I had to add one more post.My post count was at a creppy 666

You always want to keep track of what BG is where on the strategic map.
If your opponent bypasses you with one BG and moves another BG in it's place it changes the deployment considerably.
Assuming he didnt use the above mentioned technique.
Those are the best times to use your heaviest Support and maybe multiple support options if possible since the enemy will be forced into a small entry point.

I hope it's something they can possibly correct as it just doesnt seem right.
Might as well call it cheating as far as I see it.
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platoon_michael

Rep: 47.6
votes: 25


PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:10 pm Post subject: Re: Some Units tips. Reply with quote

Looks like that issue is going to be addressed for WAR on the next patch.
I'm assuming it will to for tLD.
But you die hard CCV'ers will have it.

It's an old Tool but it looks to work fine for WAR and shouldnt be any problems for CCV mods at all and im assuming tLD will be ok too.
I just had to replace the original CCIV maps folder with the WAR folder because the Tool defaults to the CCIV folder for finding the .txt file.
Maybe Mafi's 5CC does this too,I dont know.

Use the CC Terrain Viewer to get a leg up on your opponent in finding the Best LOS for your teams instantly rather than through years of playing.
Also great for finding those best places to hide from LOS.
The white area is the high ground.
Now granted you have to take Trees and Buildings into consideration but sometimes you can find that perfect spot that will just Blast the living daylights out of your opponent when he believes he is in a spot that provides great cover.



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