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Sulla

Rep: 12.6
votes: 4


PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:03 am Post subject: Hmm Reply with quote

Glad you are all enjoying the beta that was illegaly uploaded. But as Mooxe is always saying anything is alllowed here!

FYI, these as you probably know were also uploaded:

Close Combat 4 - Wacht Am Rhein (Leaked Beta)
1w 3d 478.0 Mb 0
Close Combat Red Phoenix.torrent
1mon 2w 3.0 Gb 0
Atomic Games Development Files
1mon 2w 401.1 Mb 0
Close Combat Marines Anti Terrorism
1mon 2w 508.1 Mb 0
Close Combat Modern Tactics
1mon 2w 913.2 Mb 0
Close Combat RAF Regt
1mon 2w 554.6 Mb 0
Close Combat Marines 3.1
1mon 2w 682.2 Mb 0

The USMC have only just taken delivery of AT and I am sure will be very pleased its been uploaded. The relevant internet and other authorities have been notified and whoever actually did this are going to get caught. Just another nail in the coffin of CC development by the great and good!

Sulla
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junk2drive




PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:28 am Post subject: Reply with quote

What a shame.

I have an NDA for another game and always took it seriously. Not for the legality but my honour and charecter. Plus if you ever want to be involved in another project.

Hope the recovery is quick and the game lives on.
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mooxe

Rep: 175.9
votes: 23


PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:18 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Mooxe is always saying anything is alllowed here!


That is correct. Aside from racism, porn and that line of stuff...
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Sapa

Rep: 66.8
votes: 8


PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:41 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes it is a shame! But is this not a result of the lack off info from Matrix about the game?

We are hungry for info and wants to give feedback to make this a perfect game. This could in the end give Matrix more money if the game is perfect.

I sure hope that the beta isnt in anyway nere the finnished product because in that case it will be an disaster! After all..i suppose that this one isnt made for US Marines?

You really dont think we, that love CC are sitting home burning and selling copies of a 50% made beta! Mad

Mats
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ANZAC_Tack

Rep: 22.3
votes: 1


PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:53 am Post subject: Reply with quote

to sapa:
the beta that was uplaod,if the latest was one of a lot i have used in s3t. knowing the process from my simtek work on raf,coi,ccmt,ccm5,ccm4,ccmat this is approximately 75% of the way.
(this is like my total personal Guestimation,do not take it as anything else more or less).
NDA stops me from saying more, i honour my NDA's. past, present, and hopfully future.


espree de corp
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Sulla

Rep: 12.6
votes: 4


PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:40 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
That is correct. Aside from racism, porn and that line of stuff...
Figures ...

The beta is an old beta and a ways from the finished product, Tack is right although still guesstimation Wink

Quote:
You really dont think we, that love CC are sitting home burning and selling copies of a 50% made beta!


Sapa, I am surprised at you, that you would think I think that? I have been around here a long time and know the CC community far better than that.

The fact does stand that 1 or 2 people have accessed files that were not theirs and and uploaded to a file server on the internet. This would have required more than one login as the files were in different places and servers. This does not really point to anyone randomly getting the files or hacking Simtek/S3T or Matrix. The chances this was done by somone "outside" the community are very small! Sitting home and burning copies of a beta is one thing (kind of stupid as you intended the example to be lol), uploading the list above another. But I guess I will find out eventually!

That list is what was uploaded, to pick those files out of everything on the CC servers would take a lot of combing of files!

Sulla
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RD_Thomas_Ross




PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:40 am Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope whoever did this is satisfied that the testers for this have been "temporarily" suspended from this project. Im afraid that just because I MAY have been part of this( I didnt even get back to testing after a 5+plus month abscence due to deployment)I may be denied the opportunity to participate in any upcoming testing even though I got access until AFTER the leak had happened....

I hope you are pleased...F*&^%#g loser....


"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night
To visit violence on those who would do us harm." - George Orwell


For God and Country
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:00 am Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't want to insult anyone but if those "fired" testers were the same who tested CoI and CCMT than the guy who made a leak did v good job for the CC community and for S3/Matrix Wink.
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squadleader_id

Rep: 53.1
votes: 7


PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:51 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Dima wrote:
I don't want to insult anyone but if those "fired" testers were the same who tested CoI and CCMT than the guy who made a leak did v good job for the CC community and for S3/Matrix Wink.

Ouch!! Wink
I still can't believe that S3/Matrix don't pay their testers though...since people were 'working for free'...can't blame them for not testing the games 'deep' enough Very Happy
Heck...even the people developing these games are doing it for free (CMIIW)...why should 'mere testers' get paid, right? Wink

I applaud your dedication to the CC cause though, gents! Smile
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ANZAC_Tack

Rep: 22.3
votes: 1


PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:11 am Post subject: Reply with quote

i doubt anybody could test what i tested any deeper...i mean, i even checked spelling, mens names, unit uniforms, team colours, vehicle graphics, individual sounds, map pathing, hill heights,roof tiles on and 'off'...i loose count of the reports i made, i made some 300 posts a s3t new matrix forum alone...each report had multiple items(usually,some where general comments, directions i felt needed changing,additions)

why?
for no money? mad for sure, but i somehow enjoyed every minute. last what is it, 5 days, 4 hours 32 minutes its been...well, worse then not drinking!


espree de corp
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Therion

Rep: 27.4
votes: 4


PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:12 am Post subject: Re: Hmm Reply with quote

Sulla wrote:
Close Combat Red Phoenix

Shocked
Such thing actually exists?

Sulla wrote:
Just another nail in the coffin of CC development by the great and good!

???

Sapa wrote:
Yes it is a shame! But is this not a result of the lack off info from Matrix about the game?

Obviously, and strategic minigame makes Close Combat games more realistic!
CCV fans are great at logic.


Wonderland - my mod for Armored Brigade

Killing for peace is like fucking for orgasm.
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Sulla

Rep: 12.6
votes: 4


PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:37 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I still can't believe that S3/Matrix don't pay their testers though...since people were 'working for free'...can't blame them for not testing the games 'deep' enough
Heck...even the people developing these games are doing it for free (CMIIW)...why should 'mere testers' get paid, right?


None of the major games companies pay testers! Testing has always been classed as a "privelidge" Sometimes I really do wonder where some people et their ideas of how games are developled and how games companies work.

Quote:
Close Combat Red Phoenix


Not for a long time, this was an Atomic project and since they were taken over by Destineer, the project is LONG dead!

Quote:
Just another nail in the coffin of CC development by the great and good!


Self explanatory Smile

Quote:
I don't want to insult anyone but if those "fired" testers were the same who tested CoI and CCMT than the guy who made a leak did v good job for the CC community and for S3/Matrix


Testers do the best they can, its impossible to nail everything! I have tested on several other games for Ubi/NC Soft and others (unpaid - strange that) and the same procedure is always used.

The fact that so many thought it ok that a beta WAR and all the other stuff was uploaded to a pirate server says an awful lot about some of the community! The AT version has only just been finished and is still in the deployment stage for the USMC. It says a lot that a trainer helping the USMC deal with IED's, calling in air support properly and accurately and many other things, was seen as ok, a good thing by so many! Sometimes I think that many people will not be happy until ALL work has been stopped on the CC series and next gen. Well the Mindless, moroic shitheads who uploaded the files have gone a long way towards that goal, so hope you are happy and your supporters are cheering you on!

Nice to see a link to Torrents appear at the top of CSS!

Sulla
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pvt_Grunt

Rep: 86
votes: 5


PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:46 am Post subject: Reply with quote

ANZAC_Tack wrote:
i even checked spelling


LOL Tack the spell checker Rolling Eyes next you'll tell me Sbufkle checks his spelling too! Very Happy
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ANZAC_Tack

Rep: 22.3
votes: 1


PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:39 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

well they asked...didnt say i'd make it engrish!
honestly, what the F*&^ do u expect for no pay?


espree de corp
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Therion

Rep: 27.4
votes: 4


PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:50 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Sulla wrote:
None of the major games companies pay testers! Testing has always been classed as a "privelidge" Sometimes I really do wonder where some people et their ideas of how games are developled and how games companies work.

Exactly. It allows to play games before they are released, gives a free copy of the game (I wish I was here during testing of CoI...) and a (limited) influence on their final shape.

Sulla wrote:
Quote:
Close Combat Red Phoenix


Not for a long time, this was an Atomic project and since they were taken over by Destineer, the project is LONG dead!

It got me curious. I can't find any info about that game in the internet - no screens, no descriptions, nothing.

Sulla wrote:
The fact that so many thought it ok that a beta WAR and all the other stuff was uploaded to a pirate server says an awful lot about some of the community! The AT version has only just been finished and is still in the deployment stage for the USMC. It says a lot that a trainer helping the USMC deal with IED's, calling in air support properly and accurately and many other things, was seen as ok, a good thing by so many!

That's how Operational Combat 5 fans show gratitude for remaking their favourite game for them.

Sulla wrote:
Sometimes I think that many people will not be happy until ALL work has been stopped on the CC series and next gen. Well the Mindless, moroic shitheads who uploaded the files have gone a long way towards that goal, so hope you are happy and your supporters are cheering you on!

That's true. Many Operational Combat 5 fans hate Close Combat. They think that it's "shallow" and "uninteresting" - they are sitting on their forums and moaning about how Atomic Games times were great and how Simtek "killed" Close Combat series and how "evil" are the military versions. I bet they dream about Atomic Games inventing new ways to bastardise that glorious tactical game.
I wouldn't be surprised if in a few months a new version of Close Combat made by Russians would appear on torrents - one with political and economic layers and maybe even with building factories and collecting resources on battlefield to make it more "deep" and more "wargamish"...


Wonderland - my mod for Armored Brigade

Killing for peace is like fucking for orgasm.
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Sulla

Rep: 12.6
votes: 4


PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:12 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
That's true. Many Operational Combat 5 fans hate Close Combat. They think that it's "shallow" and "uninteresting" - they are sitting on their forums and moaning about how Atomic Games times were great and how Simtek "killed" Close Combat series and how "evil" are the military versions. I bet they dream about Atomic Games inventing new ways to bastardise that glorious tactical game.


Having met KZ several times, Eric, Doug Walker (main design and operation manager - ie: who made CC actually work as a game) and others, the CC we got from Atomic was a pure accident and luck! Man if I could post some of the info I know .....

Mentioning no names, people would change their mind about the game and various aspects so many times, its lucky anything EVER made it out of Atmomic! Luckily for them and us Microsoft were involved with the games!

Evil? I have seen a USMC officer come out of a CC session crying after he called fire down on his own men, this was their last sim before deployment to Iraq. USMC officers and NCO's are not prone to cry! This is what the military versions are designed to do! To give officers and NCO's as well as junior leaders a chance to train and learn tactical warfare and how to do certain things correctly and learn what happens if they don't!

Some people will NEVER be happy! Its a galss half full thing I think!

Sula
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Therion

Rep: 27.4
votes: 4


PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:42 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Sulla wrote:
Having met KZ several times, Eric, Doug Walker (main design and operation manager - ie: who made CC actually work as a game) and others, the CC we got from Atomic was a pure accident and luck! Man if I could post some of the info I know .....

Mentioning no names, people would change their mind about the game and various aspects so many times, its lucky anything EVER made it out of Atmomic! Luckily for them and us Microsoft were involved with the games!

I guess Microsoft was responsible for the excellent manuals of CC1 & 2?

It looks like they became somewhat genre-confused after leaving Microsoft.

Sulla wrote:
Evil?

Yes, according to some, they are evil, because they "train soldiers to fight against the US citizens" (who was that? Hmm... Pz_Meyer or Uberdave?).
Or even worse, are "spoiling" the "unlimited meaningless slaughter" by adding things like civilians and triggers.

Sulla wrote:
I have seen a USMC officer come out of a CC session crying after he called fire down on his own men, this was their last sim before deployment to Iraq. USMC officers and NCO's are not prone to cry! This is what the military versions are designed to do! To give officers and NCO's as well as junior leaders a chance to train and learn tactical warfare and how to do certain things correctly and learn what happens if they don't!

Besides grim consequences of errors in reality, that's an interesting contrast to how normal CC players treat soldiers ( as an expandable resource. It would be interesting to be able to play CC where the soldiers are somehow important in other way than being killing machines.

When I played CC for the first time (CC3 demo from a magazine), I was shocked by the level of violence - I played Mortal Kombat, Doom, Carmageddon and other "violent" games, but that demo was the most violent of them all.
I didn't have money for CC3, so I had a full CC game after a few years - one of my friends had CC4 from a magazine. I exchanged it for some other game.

So, I became an owner of a copy of CC4. I think I played it only for a few days, because it didn't really feel meaningful - it was just moving counters on a big map and then having hundreds of meaningless little guys slaughter each other on a small map.
I never finished any grand campaign, because it didn't really feel meaningful in comparison to for example finishing a campaign in Command & Conquer: Tiberian Sun (on the other hand, I put C&C:TS on shelf immediately after finishing the campaign, because the gamplay was boring and unrealistic).

A few years ago I bought CC5 in store for 15$, but it failed to capture my attention for a longer time too.

CC captured me for longer time only after I discovered the CC modding, though the gameplay itself still felt pretty meaningless.
I dreamed about some kind of narration that would justify what was happening.

I think it changed with CCMT - as it had briefings and each battle had a justification and story beyond "unit moved on the same map so there will be a battle and then another unit on another map will move and another will move and there will be another battle with some other units until the units will go to the other side of the map". It doesn't have triggers and debriefings, so the story and soldiers aren't really important, but I like it the best from the CC games released so far.
I like playing with various stories and concepts in missions and CCMT allows me to do some of that.

CCMAT looks even more impressive - triggers, civilians and interaction with them, IEDs, etc. is much more than Atomic Games have done for CC after CC1. I'd love to play a commercial release of it as it seems to have even more place for various stories.

Returning to the soldiers - I've noticed one thing - they have basic "self-preservation instincts", but don't "care" for each other - they leave their wounded comrades, etc.
It would be interesting if they would become even more human-like in their behaviour. For example, I remember the old theory that smaller ammo is better because one wounded soldier eliminates two others from combat.
I recently installed a FFUR mod for Operation Flashpoint which makes the game more realistic. In that mod, when a soldier is seriously wounded, he lies down and waits for help.
Sometimes soldiers drag their wounded comrades from combat and give them first aid. Seeing bots which usally just shoot the enemy behaving like that feels weird. Like they were more human-like.

Similarly, leading a single platoon with a realistic reinforcement system through a series of engagements could be less detached than commanding tens of "battalions". Especially, if basic relationships of platoon members would be modelled.


Wonderland - my mod for Armored Brigade

Killing for peace is like fucking for orgasm.
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Tejszd

Rep: 122.5
votes: 19


PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:40 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Therion wrote:

Sulla wrote:
The fact that so many thought it ok that a beta WAR and all the other stuff was uploaded to a pirate server says an awful lot about some of the community! The AT version has only just been finished and is still in the deployment stage for the USMC. It says a lot that a trainer helping the USMC deal with IED's, calling in air support properly and accurately and many other things, was seen as ok, a good thing by so many!

That's how Operational Combat 5 fans show gratitude for remaking their favourite game for them.

CC like any other community has a variety of people, some have no issue using pirated software and others would never. Given what was uploaded, Atomic development tools, this breach was either an inside job or a targeted attack and I do not agree with blaming the CC community or testers….

Mooxe, if there is a link on CCS to the torrents here please remove it....

Therion wrote:

Sulla wrote:
Sometimes I think that many people will not be happy until ALL work has been stopped on the CC series and next gen. Well the Mindless, moroic shitheads who uploaded the files have gone a long way towards that goal, so hope you are happy and your supporters are cheering you on!

That's true. Many Operational Combat 5 fans hate Close Combat. They think that it's "shallow" and "uninteresting" - they are sitting on their forums and moaning about how Atomic Games times were great and how Simtek "killed" Close Combat series and how "evil" are the military versions. I bet they dream about Atomic Games inventing new ways to bastardise that glorious tactical game.
I wouldn't be surprised if in a few months a new version of Close Combat made by Russians would appear on torrents - one with political and economic layers and maybe even with building factories and collecting resources on battlefield to make it more "deep" and more "wargamish"...


Therion,

What is your beef with CC4/5? A lot of people think the mini game or strat layer makes it a better game. If Sulla would tell us I bet COI has outsold CCMT by a huge margin, mainly because CCMT is less of a game and more a training tool. The CC community has always been split between CC2, CC3 and CC4/5 and people would like to see the re-releases or CC6 move in the direction of their favorite. Well WAR is a gold version/re-release of CC4 which had a strat layer so quit complaining about. Just like the others should stop complaining about the Matrix/S3T approach as they have decided what they are going to do so let them execute their plan and vote with your dollars on the re-releases and the eventual CC6 if/when it comes….

Still haven’t seen you post any tactical level enhancement suggestions???
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Pzt_Kevin_dtn

Rep: 10.9


PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:35 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't believe that there is actually a person who likes CCMT AND finds it to be better than CCIII, CCIV, or CCV. Amazing!

But I guess everyone has the right to their own opinion. I do agree the CCMT is more like a training tool than an actual game.
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mooxe

Rep: 175.9
votes: 23


PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:47 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Sulla wrote:


Nice to see a link to Torrents appear at the top of CSS!

Sulla


Thanks. Those mods files that have been listed on a torrent server to branch out to other circles of the internet. If there is something wrong with hosting mod files on this server, and listing what is available at CCS via torrents please tell me.

There has not been, and there never has been copyrighted software of any kind hosted at this site, ever.
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