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TRIVIA: Are soldiers credited for killing surrendered troops?

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7A_Woulf

Rep: 22.1
votes: 2


PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:22 pm Post subject: I bought a new game... Reply with quote

...and started modding at once!  Rolling Eyes

But TBH, that's why I bought TLD: -I've heard it was easy to mod with Excel. I'm starting with the fpool and work my way up, maybe I've got something to contribute with in a few years?  Wink
But I need some tips and links, glad for any help.

1) I'm a reality-freak, so I need info on equipment and organisation of units fighting i WE, preferably links so i don't have to ask a zillion questions here on the forum...

2) Is it possible to merge CC5 data (and later maps...) into TLD without hours of work?

3) Two concrete questions right away:

3.1) -Were the glider-regiments incorporated in the force of the three airborne-regiments, or should I create new BG's later on? And were there any differences in the equipment/organisation of the squads in the the two types of regiments?

3.2) Read the readme.txt for the CC2 mod Operation Market Garden and found this:
"- American BAR and rifle teams ~ according to standard US TOE during the war the Rifle
section was split between a five men BAR group and a Rifle group comprising seven soldiers;
- BAR ammunition ~ A six pouch belt holding twelve magazines was worn by the Automatic
Rifleman and with one in set in weapon it results 13 magazines (260 rounds);"
Is this correct info?

4) My first plans at the moment, any other ideas or corrections just let me know.
* Reduce the number of men in MG-teams, 3 in .30 teams. But how many in Vickers and .50 teams?
* Two mortars in every 80mm+ mortar team. Thinking about increasing the amount of ammunition for all mortars as well, but how much is a historical correct number?
* British and Commonwealth infantry units organised in "7+3" groups, just as in TRSM.


"When the tough gets going, I run to live to run another day..."

"Is this trip really necessary?"
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: I bought a new game... Reply with quote

Quote:
3.1) -Were the glider-regiments incorporated in the force of the three airborne-regiments, or should I create new BG's later on?

there were 2 GIR and 1 ABR in each US ABD.

Quote:
And were there any differences in the equipment/organisation of the squads in the the two types of regiments?

Yes, there were alot of differences in organisation and weapons.

Quote:
"- American BAR and rifle teams ~ according to standard US TOE during the war the Rifle
section was split between a five men BAR group and a Rifle group comprising seven soldiers;
- BAR ammunition ~ A six pouch belt holding twelve magazines was worn by the Automatic
Rifleman and with one in set in weapon it results 13 magazines (260 rounds);"
Is this correct info?

almost Smile.
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davidssfx

Rep: 16.8
votes: 8


PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:54 pm Post subject: Re: I bought a new game... Reply with quote

http://www.spearhead1944.com/amerpg/amer101.htm

although no BAR for paratroopers ... like is mentioned in above link

info about that here:
http://triggertimeforum.yuku.com/reply/23051/t/327th-photos-showing-B-A-R.html#reply-23051
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davidssfx

Rep: 16.8
votes: 8


PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:58 pm Post subject: Re: I bought a new game... Reply with quote

http://www.history.army.mil/BOOKS/WWII/utah/utah.htm

http://www.6juin1944.com/assaut/allemagne/en_index.php

http://www.ww2airborne.com/the101stairborne/unitcallsignsemblems.html
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7A_Woulf

Rep: 22.1
votes: 2


PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:39 pm Post subject: Re: I bought a new game... Reply with quote

Thx for the links david, found spearhead1944 (nice OB there), as well as this site: http://www.101airborneww2.com/index.html earlier today; -Had never heard about .30cal LMG instead of BAR's in PIRs before. Funny thing though, look at the OB of the spearhead-link, they claim every squad have both a BAR and a LMG!! Wink

But Dima; 2 GIR and 1 ABR?!? In every source I've found over the years the 101st consisted of 501st, 502nd and 506th PIR (ABR), plus 327th GIR and 326th Airborne Engineer Battalion. (Interesting point of note; I/327th and I/401 (attached to 327th GIR) arrived at Normandy by boat...)


"When the tough gets going, I run to live to run another day..."

"Is this trip really necessary?"
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:00 am Post subject: Re: I bought a new game... Reply with quote

Quote:
Had never heard about .30cal LMG instead of BAR's in PIRs before.

check Utah mod Smile.

Quote:
Funny thing though, look at the OB of the spearhead-link, they claim every squad have both a BAR and a LMG!!
 
because they show provisional  late war composition - BARs were allocated to ABs since OMG.

Quote:
But Dima; 2 GIR and 1 ABR?!? In every source I've found over the years the 101st consisted of 501st, 502nd and 506th PIR (ABR), plus 327th GIR and 326th Airborne Engineer Battalion.

yes, sorry, my bad Smile.

Quote:
Interesting point of note; I/327th and I/401 (attached to 327th GIR) arrived at Normandy by boat...)

check Utah mod Smile.
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7A_Woulf

Rep: 22.1
votes: 2


PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:24 am Post subject: Re: I bought a new game... Reply with quote

Waiting for your Utah 2.0 Dima  Wink


"When the tough gets going, I run to live to run another day..."

"Is this trip really necessary?"
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7A_Woulf

Rep: 22.1
votes: 2


PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:58 am Post subject: Re: I bought a new game... Reply with quote

Yippee!!  Very Happy

I've found the site of all sites!!

http://www.bayonetstrength.150m.com/index.htm

(Should have paid my bills and cleaned my house now that I've been sick for a week, but this was much funnier... ) Wink


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"Is this trip really necessary?"
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:53 am Post subject: Re: I bought a new game... Reply with quote

yes, this one is good - thought you knew it though Smile.
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davidssfx

Rep: 16.8
votes: 8


PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 1:50 am Post subject: Re: I bought a new game... Reply with quote

Thanks for the link 7A_Woulf

by the way ... what do you have in mind for your mod?

I also prefer historical accuracy ... even if it means less variation in weapons, units, etc.
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7A_Woulf

Rep: 22.1
votes: 2


PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 2:20 am Post subject: Re: I bought a new game... Reply with quote

Well. starting light with modding infantry teams and FP for the standard games. One day I hope I will get bold enough to start playing around with vehicles, maps and scenarios/campaigns as well...  Wink

If it gives you a hint, TRSM is my all time favourite for CC5.

Thinking about adding units I've been missing as well; -For example jeeps, ad-hoc paras and forward observers... (Big bom-bom!!)   Rolling Eyes

Hopefully I can create historically correct BG's without messing too much with the playability of the game.

And the great unknown future? I'm a sucker for western Europe 1943-45, reading about Normandy right now and started to research and plan a Market Garden mod in the future (That's a good way to get an official game or a really good mod out, about three weeks before I'm done... Those things always happens to me!!  Wink )


"When the tough gets going, I run to live to run another day..."

"Is this trip really necessary?"
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davidssfx

Rep: 16.8
votes: 8


PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:05 am Post subject: Re: I bought a new game... Reply with quote

I like the ideas for this mod. Would be nice to see some jeeps, and 3 man MG's will probably work better than the larger MG teams. The ad-hoc paras are historically correct too ... even though many found (and regrouped) with their own units, others remained mixed for several days or longer ... I've wondered how this would work as the campaign progressed (having mixed units).
I know nothing of when and how often forward observers were used, or how effective they were ... would be interesting to find out. Another thing I was wondering about is the use of smoke in Normandy. Was it used in a similar way as the portrayed in CC ... to screen infantry advances, etc. I can't ever remember reading about its use.

look forward to checking this mod out.
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davidssfx

Rep: 16.8
votes: 8


PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:30 pm Post subject: Re: I bought a new game... Reply with quote

Something else you may want to consider for this mod ... morale and experience levels.

Based on info from Niklas Zetterling's book "Normandy 1944" ... the static divisions (352, 709, 243) were of low quality troops and equipment. Comprised of very young (some mid teens), old, and recovering wounded from the East Front, and including forced service from nazi occupied countries.
They spent much of their time building the Atlantic wall, instead of military training ... and had virtually no mobility.
The 91 ID was better trained and equipped, but was not well rated in terms of combat effectiveness.
PzAbt 100 was a tank training unit using mostly captured French tanks.

So my point being ... maybe a greater variance in morale and experience values between the different battle groups should be considered for more realism.

Higher for units in the 82nd and 101st AB, since they had excellent training (and higher for the 82nd since they had already been in action). And much lower for some/most static German ID units. Forces landing on the beaches and more veteran German battle groups with armor and mobility could be rated somewhere in between.

just a thought anyway.
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schrecken

Rep: 195
votes: 15


PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:09 pm Post subject: Re: I bought a new game... Reply with quote

Quote:
So my point being ... maybe a greater variance in morale and experience values between the different battle groups should be considered for more realism


I believe it is already as you request.
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7A_Woulf

Rep: 22.1
votes: 2


PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:01 am Post subject: Re: I bought a new game... Reply with quote

davidssfx wrote (View Post):

Another thing I was wondering about is the use of smoke in Normandy. Was it used in a similar way as the portrayed in CC ... to screen infantry advances, etc. I can't ever remember reading about its use.

look forward to checking this mod out.


I think smoke was used as regular in Normandy, but being and old CC (and ASL) player I was under the impression that a majority of the squads had smoke-grenades. But now, in TLD, it seems that the number of SM is rather low?

davidssfx wrote (View Post):
Something else you may want to consider for this mod ... morale and experience levels.

Based on info from Niklas Zetterling's book "Normandy 1944" ... the static divisions (352, 709, 243) were of low quality troops and equipment. Comprised of very young (some mid teens), old, and recovering wounded from the East Front, and including forced service from nazi occupied countries.
They spent much of their time building the Atlantic wall, instead of military training ... and had virtually no mobility.
The 91 ID was better trained and equipped, but was not well rated in terms of combat effectiveness.
PzAbt 100 was a tank training unit using mostly captured French tanks.

So my point being ... maybe a greater variance in morale and experience values between the different battle groups should be considered for more realism.

Higher for units in the 82nd and 101st AB, since they had excellent training (and higher for the 82nd since they had already been in action). And much lower for some/most static German ID units. Forces landing on the beaches and more veteran German battle groups with armor and mobility could be rated somewhere in between.

just a thought anyway.


I will of course look into the moral and expertise of the units involved, if not in this first version so in later. As you says, the German 'Bodenst√§ndige' divisions were of poorer quality, with too little training and too little ammunition, the same goes for 91st ID (officially designated an 'air-landing' division, very useful in '44  Razz )

There should be a differences between 82nd and 101st AB, since the 82nd had done several combat-drops earlier while Overlord was the first for 101st. The same goes for the beach landing troops: -29th and 1st US infantry divisions had been fighting since North Africa, as well as some of the British divisions, while others were a bit inexperienced.


"When the tough gets going, I run to live to run another day..."

"Is this trip really necessary?"
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:37 pm Post subject: Re: I bought a new game... Reply with quote

Quote:
the same goes for 91st ID

it had up-to-date equipment and adequate training.

Quote:
(officially designated an 'air-landing' division, very useful in '44   )

why not?
check Fall Sverige mod forum Wink.
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7A_Woulf

Rep: 22.1
votes: 2


PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 4:49 pm Post subject: Re: I bought a new game... Reply with quote

As usual, I bow for your expertise Dima.  Wink  

Read a theory once (don't remember where) that the 91st was designated Air-landing in order to deploy it with only two regiments as Luftwaffe field-divisions, instead of the three regiments a regular WH division had. Guess that author didn't knew about Fall Sverige?  Rolling Eyes


"When the tough gets going, I run to live to run another day..."

"Is this trip really necessary?"
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 7:35 pm Post subject: Re: I bought a new game... Reply with quote

who knows Wink.

maybe they didn't have enough planes to lift 3 regiments Smile.

anyway, in Normandy 6.FJR was subordinated to 91.ID as 3rd regiment..
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7A_Woulf

Rep: 22.1
votes: 2


PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:33 pm Post subject: Re: I bought a new game... Reply with quote

Between Real Life, my work for Hoogly and Davids Ground Tactics mod , I can only say that any plans to mod TLD is rather dead for me...

-Haven't looked at their work yet, but I have a feeling that my plans for a mod would only 'reinvent the wheel' ATM. It seems that they team have changed most of the things I've been thinking about, good work guys.  Smile


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"Is this trip really necessary?"
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