But my latest experience of a new release (tLD) is that they are trying to support it. I can admit that the original game was a sad story, not properly tested and released to soon, and personally I waited half a year before I bought it so the worst flaws would have been patched. We all wants a working product, and that's our right as paying customers, but remember that there's no, or little, money in the CC series of games, so they can't put down thousands of man-hours in the new releases and if I got it right: the original code seems to be missing too, making programming a lot harder. Let's just hope that they can release a final, working patch for tLD (...and the other games too!) and maybe they crack the coding problem one day, so we can get a decent AI experience as well.
I'd love to think because Matrix and its studios are so small they'd love fan aid with their products. We have a great group of modders and players (issues aside ) that clearly want to see CC continue. I have no idea how to contact anyone involved.
Is this a potential idea or is it DOA? Would people be willing to work for a common goal? I'd certainly volunteer time to playtest betas and other things. Having a small part in the final product would certainly make me feel good.
So am I just a newbie idealist or somewhere in there is there a workable plan?
"To you, we are deeply grateful, and release what little hold we might, as Durandal, have had on your soul.
Go."
- Final Terminal Message, Marathon Infinity
Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: The Longest Day serial needed
Quote:
So am I just a newbie idealist
Maybe, but none the worse for that! I have been at CC for over a decade and am still an idealist. I think the game encourages you to want that, so join the club!
We are not going to get the source code. Destineer owns it, and they will never allow it into the 'community'. I would eat my hat if they ever did (I have a special chocolate hat just for that sort of thing... ).
The only way I can see any next generation CC is by virtue of the fact that it would be a derivative of something powerfully commercial. Say World of Warcraft, or the Sims and such (BIG $$$). For that you would get the investment needed, but you would have to keep such an intention very secret otherwise you would be dropped like a hot potato.
Matrix Games I am sure rely on a lot of cheap and free effort from enthusiasts in order to make progress with some of their releases. Testers mostly do it for nothing (well, a freebie game). There will be a 'core' of paid/salaried staff but not enough to provide serious in depth productions on the scale we are talking about. That's just the nature of this commercial beast. It's about profit, that's all. Risk is avoided at all costs, and the owners and shareholders will want as much as they can get out of it. The 'community' can scratch around as much as they please, but will not change the dynamics of the commercial imperatives, which drive the production of these things. If it was different, you would have seen CC6 by now IMO, at least in prototype.
Anyway, that is just my take, but I think the results demonstrate for themselves?...
Never said anything about CCS, just a remark about the laws, ethics and moral around the pirate copying debate. (Oh, yes.
Well, my main problem with the whole "morality" thing when it comes to gaming is how one sided it is. Note that it's always about how evil pirates are "stealing" from "poor" developers. Gaming magazines tend to present developers/publishers in role of victims.
But I have never seen magazines demanding respect for law and customer rights from developers.
Also, magazines in countries where work is much cheaper never write that criticize copies of games for being way too expensive. They write about respect for work of developers, but not about respect for of work of customers.
Well, I get a feeling that it's a norm; -and if it's a norm, why demand warning texts?
It's a "norm" only when it comes to computer programs. Generally when buying goods, one expects to buy a finished product.
Then some games are less finished than others. Some of developers rush the development/testing process and routinely end up selling bugged games.
If they rush the testing, they should inform the customers that they are buying a beta version of the game.
Also some games have problems that developers know of but can't fix like the AI and pathing problems.
Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 10:18 pm Post subject: Re: The Longest Day serial needed
Quote:
"trust" is something that has to be earned.
I'll second that. What you do defines you.
Quote:
Note that it's always about how evil pirates are "stealing" from "poor" developers.
Stealing is stealing whether it is from 'poor' or 'rich' developers. If someone stole something from you that you owned, I am sure you would think that is just fine...
To try and justify Copywrite infringement on the basis that you believe a game is not a 'finished product' is still invalid. Finished or not, Copywrite is Copywrite. I happen to agree that too much software is sold with too many bugs, but that is a different issue. The issue of 'pathing' in CC is moot, but I could not accept that it constitutes a 'broken' game. When I found out that there were issues with pathing, I adjusted my game play accordingly. Should I have to? Maybe not, but it is hardly a clear cut issue. Real life throws plenty of screw balls anyway... Also your comment about AI is even more difficult to be clear cut about. When is AI broken? When it doesn't do what you want it or expect it to do? I could say the same about human beings...
Quote:
Unfortunately during the production of CCMT someone "released" the test build of the game to the torrent download sites.
I hadn't realised this. CCMT or War makes no difference. Because of the stupidity of some jerk(s) who did not honour his NDA, a lot of others suffer. Stupid, selfish, puerile, and arrogant. See "Trust"... but then, there are some around here that do need to 'grow up'.
Note that it's always about how evil pirates are "stealing" from "poor" developers. Gaming magazines tend to present developers/publishers in role of victims.
But I have never seen magazines demanding respect for law and customer rights from developers.
This is a very complex issue being summed up in the above sentence. My thoughts on it are just as abstuse as the topic itself. Firstly, I have to admit that I have aquired software through illegitimate means (legal disclaimer - in the past. I have seen the error of my ways, and I am now a reformed man. Hallelujah!). Though, in my feeble defence, it has only ever been software that was insanely expensive, and I've recently been spending a good portion of my life making enough cash to be able to jump on board the legal ownership train. Developers (pro software and games alike) make it so hard sometimes, though, because they keep releasing new versions, old versions stop working on new OS updates, etc.
I've never really copied games, for a few good reasons: a) they usually retail somewhere around the AU$100 mark, which is not that much, b) I never pay retail anyway, because I am patient as the mountain, and I usually wait for most things to hit the discount bin (Far Cry 2 for AU$25, anyone? Booyah!), and c) copy protection is insane these days. That last point is not a bad thing, unless you bought a game from Ubisoft recently, in which case you would be better served just throwing your money into the wind.
Put simply, we want to give money to developers, because investment gives return (well, in theory). We buy games, developers get paid, that encourages them to make more bigger better games, repeat. The comment above by Therion does have truth, though only in the context of big developers, really. You should never rip off a small developer to get your hands on a game they've made that you think is awesome, because that is evil. Yes, you are a bad person if you do that.
On the other hand... software pirates are not Robin freaking Hood. Let's be clear and honest with ourselves now. You are not stealing from the rich in order to feed the poor. You are thieving a game, which is a recreational product, in order to waste time. That is not a noble thing. You are not the socialist ninja fighting big corporate interests. (Actually, there is a really funny Penny-Arcade comic about this argument which I am too lazy to link to, but go back a couple of weeks and you'll find it).
So, in the end, there aren't really any good guys, or bad guys, and if you claim to be the former up against the latter, then you're probably just masking guilt. Pay for your games and I bet that guilt will go away, and you'll feel much better about the world. And then you can join us over here on this side of the fence, where we all have every right to complain about lack of developer support, blah de blah, and, you know, on it goes...
"I have come here to kick ass and chew bubblegum... and I'm all out of bubblegum." - They Live
The CC series had quite a large base of volunteer testers from this community....
Unfortunately during the production of CCMT someone "released" the test build of the game to the torrent download sites.
Sapa among others downloaded it and posted his thoughts.... luckily it was infested with trojans and all downloaders have been suffering since.
Due to this all the testers were let go by Matrix and "trust" is something that has to be earned.
To say the least, this has severely impacted the ability to test patches/upgrades.
Well that sucks. Some douchebag who seemingly had no morales fucked us...awesome.
And of course, with Matrix basically having no "direct" means of communication besides the Help Desk (I couldn't find a phone number or physical address on their site. They go to great lengths it conceal their location...or did I just miss it?) makes the whole process difficult. Yes, they have a forum, but that doesn't seem like the best method.
I hope I haven't soured their opinion on me with my terse help desk requests. I just didn't know what else to do. In my experience "the squeaky wheel gets the grease!"
Thanks for all the info guys. I realize I'm new and am probably kicking over ant hills that have long been kicked over, but I love these games and I'm glad I rediscovered them.
"To you, we are deeply grateful, and release what little hold we might, as Durandal, have had on your soul.
Go."
- Final Terminal Message, Marathon Infinity
Stealing is stealing whether it is from 'poor' or 'rich' developers. If someone stole something from you that you owned, I am sure you would think that is just fine...
Thats RIGHT
So, lets talk about Matrix and CCMT. Lets see
They had trouble during development when the head guy got sick and was hopitalized...
They had trouble during testing, with leeked builds, and canned all the testers...
They released and SOLD a product that was not complete and/or tested...
So basically, Matrix STOLE MONEY FROM CUSTOMERS and gave some of that money TO THE DEVELOPERS...
Alas, there are those with no scruples, and likely double standards. I wonder what they would think if they had their own work stolen?
Here we just change your quote with one word to make it more applicable...
Alas, there are those with no scruples, and likely double standards. I wonder what they would think if they had their own MONEY stolen?
Geez, YOUR RIGHT AGAIN
PIRATE MATRIX, exchanging PIRATE MONEY and PIRATE STUFF, to Pirate Developers and Testers.
The Pirates feed off unsuspecting customers. It happens every day, every where. The problem is so rampant, several EU countries are enacting laws to protect consumers from THIS OUTRAGEOS PIRACY.
Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 6:16 am Post subject: Re: The Longest Day serial needed
I have two 42 inch digital tv/monitors in the house. One I can hook up to my system or any of my laptos and play on but I find that the image is too large and becomes cumbersome after a period of time so generally tend to stick to the smaller 25 inch screen. It retains a sharper image as well and doesn't strain my eyes as much either.
I use two 25 inch digital tv/monitors side by side for work which works fine for me.
I believe that the bigger screens detract from the game to a degree, makes the whole point of the 'Small soldiers mod' a moot one huh?
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In August of 2004, Zappi, Homba, Bambam887, RedScorpion and MOOXE all pitched
in to create this Close Combat site. I would to thank all the people who have visited
and found this site to thier liking. I hope you had time to check out some
of the great Close Combat mods and our forums. I'd also like to thank
all the members of our volunteer staff that have helped over
the years, and all our users that contributed to this site!
) that clearly want to see CC continue. I have no idea how to contact anyone involved.
I have been at CC for over a decade and am still an idealist. I think the game encourages you to want that, so join the club!
