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CaptSam

Rep: 0.7


PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:59 pm Post subject: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Reply with quote

platoon_michael wrote (View Post):
I would love to see/use the .TGA for this tank if possible.

Your idea seems to be something I could get into.


That's Jadgpanther's not good enough to pass around yet!  I'm just thinking out loud on the board here and sharing my ideas and attempts to learn more (mainly by trial and error.)  At some point I'll have a decent gray scale sprite anyone can have and paint however they desire!

On the Slitherine main board, someone named Steve McClaire verified that the new vehicle images are true 32 bit with an alpha layer!  Wow, imagine millions of colors possible with true transparencies (not the 255 white pixel/transparent) and larger scale (better looking) sprites.

http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=176&t=36535&sid=16677d2c109bf1c1540d914806602ee1
 
Look, I'm nowhere near pro level at this, but I'm having lots of fun trying to figure this stuff out.  I have finally gotten to a point where painting a sprite is probably my favorite part.  I even watch Youtube videos of people painting miniatures.  Making and painting little images of tanks, for me, is probably just as much fun as making little models is for someone that does that.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p05TeLAOxvg
(it gets really interesting around 06:50)

The major difference between model makers and sprite makers: I can correct mistakes and make as many versions as I want, and sprite makers can actually play real-time games with their images!  I'm posting a few more paint schemes, just for the fun of it--I could make these all day long . . . It may take an hour to make a grayscale bumpmap, but I can paint a sprite in just a few minutes!  Also here's a pic of my grayscale bumpmap.

I use GIMP, by the way, because it has an excellent bumpmap filter for making a 3D-looking grayscale base sprite.  As long as I make a good gray scale bumpmap, I can easily paint a good-looking tank.  I can quickly make desert or winter or whatever version I want.  To get good colors, I take screenshots of webpages and use the eyedropper to pick my colors in my graphics editor.

http://www.jpsmodell.de/katalog/jpsral_e.htm

If you do a web search for "top-down tank sprites" or tutorials about how to make them, you won't find much of anything.  Are you interested in me making a guide on how I make mine?  I'm no pro, but the basic concepts could possibly be improved upon.  Perhaps others could offer constructive criticism.

By the way, who made the Stalingrad mod vehicles?  That guy needs to make a sprite guide!



Screen6.jpg
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Bumpmap gray base
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Screen5 - Copy.jpg
 Description:
More paint schemes
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platoon_michael

Rep: 47.6
votes: 25


PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:08 am Post subject: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Reply with quote

That's Jadgpanther's not good enough to pass around yet!


Ahhh yea ,your wrong about that.
And I was wrong in my post .
I should have asked for a layered format.One that allows people to see the steps that you did.
It's nice when people help out but for me personally I like a layered format and instruction on each layer.


BTW
Thank-You for the link and what suggestions you have already posted.
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papa_whisky

Rep: 42.2
votes: 4


PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:26 am Post subject: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Reply with quote

CaptSam, you make it seem very easy (and it probably is for you). I am not very savvy with paint programs, I had an ambition to do all British and Soviet/Russian AFV's from 1945 to present. Got about halfway through the Bristish vehicles, some results better than others. I was a bit data deficient on some vehicles not able to find a suitable top down or blueprint. It is very satisfying seeing the creations moving around the battlefield.
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CaptSam

Rep: 0.7


PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:02 am Post subject: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Reply with quote

papa_whisky wrote (View Post):
CaptSam, you make it seem very easy (and it probably is for you). I am not very savvy with paint programs, I had an ambition to do all British and Soviet/Russian AFV's from 1945 to present. Got about halfway through the Bristish vehicles, some results better than others. I was a bit data deficient on some vehicles not able to find a suitable top down or blueprint. It is very satisfying seeing the creations moving around the battlefield.



Look at the pic below, the first sprites I ever made:  I made it in 2011.  It is extremely amateurish.  

Think about that . . . 2011.  Most people would have instantly quit with such results . . . All around me are sprite makers of superior ability and talent.  Shouldn't I just give up?  Hell no; I loved making those sprites!  I'm proud of them and I want to post it here!

"It is very satisfying seeing the creations moving around the battlefield."--that about sums it up!



First.jpg
 Description:
My first Sprites
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First.jpg


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CaptSam

Rep: 0.7


PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:28 pm Post subject: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Reply with quote

Ok, what I have done is make a GIMP, Paint.net, and Photoshop version of my last tank.  Since both Pain.net and GIMP are free, anybody can open and view it.  If you want to make a .tga file, you can convert it in any of those editors--although you might need a plug-in.

I left all the layers intact, in case someone wants to see how I did it.  The only problem is there are many layers (over 30!) and no notes on what I really did for each layer.  14 of the layers are different camo patterns, so maybe someone can turn on each different camo layer, one at a time, and see what colors I used or whatever.

If someone wants to put this image in a current CC game, it probably isn't a good idea, since this image uses semi-transparent pixels and we won't be able to display it correctly until Panthers in the Fog comes out.  Also, it is out of scale for current games, and further shrinking would look bad.

But if nothing else, it should be interesting to some people to see how I did it, and maybe someone with more talent can give me some tips!

I find the screenshot below especially interesting because it shows how GIMP, Paint.net, and Photoshop handles overlay colors differently.  In my opinion, Photoshop does the best job.  Paint.net is even better than GIMP for colors, but Paint.net doesn't have the same powerful tools that GIMP has.



3Screenshot.jpg
 Description:
Same image in 3 different editors.
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JptherFiles.zip
 Description:
The Zip file

Download
 Filename:  JptherFiles.zip
 Filesize:  312.42 KB
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platoon_michael

Rep: 47.6
votes: 25


PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:33 am Post subject: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Reply with quote

This is just sooo cool.
The fact that you included 14 different camo patterns is just Awesome.

I re-sized the Tank to the scale that TT did for his Mod and to be honest with you I really like it.



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CaptSam

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:27 am Post subject: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Reply with quote

Glad you like it.  Are you familiar with the dodge and burn tools?  It could be easily touched up with those tools to make outlines possible.

Although to do it right, I should have made the bump map at 200% the correct scale, and then reduced by 50%, instead of simply reducing the finished sprite.



Untitled.jpg
 Description:
Dodge and burned
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platoon_michael

Rep: 47.6
votes: 25


PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:04 pm Post subject: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Reply with quote

Thanks for the help.
Ill see if I can figure out what you mean.

What ideas have you got for Winter Camo?
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CaptSam

Rep: 0.7


PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:50 pm Post subject: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Reply with quote

I've never been too good at making winter camos.  I usually take the shortcut of just making a whitewashed version (basically just a plain white camo layer.)

You know, this really is a work in progress, and I'm continuing to get a grasp on this process.  Thanks for posting the CC image.  It reminded me that I needed to highlight the edges around the hull.  In the youtube video I posted earlier of that man painting his model, if you fast forward to around 33:40 you can see him highlighting the edges, and that basically what I mean by "dodging" the image, which is basically just lightening certain pixels to make them stand out.

Anyway, I used the dodge tool to highlight the edges, and someone on the GIMP forum suggested that I use the "Curves" tool to widen the grayscale color range, making the sprite stand out more and appear more metallic.  I messed with it for awhile to get a good primer gray image.  I may have overdone the effect, but oh well, I can always undo it.

For the winter camo, I applied a base coat of olivegreen and then used the paintbrush to add strokes of greywhite.  Alternately, I could have just painted the basecoat as greywhite and then brushed on strokes of olivegreen.

Also, I've added a pic of 3 different camo pattern in another game that uses 32 bit graphics (with a genuine alpha channel.)  The sprites on the left SHOULD look this good in the new game, when it comes out.



Curves.jpg
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Color Curves for better Primer
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 Description:
Winter painting
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3ingame.jpg
 Description:
left side is a Close Combat zoom level, right is zoomed in further.
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CaptSam

Rep: 0.7


PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:24 am Post subject: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Reply with quote

For anybody who is interested, I've been practicing with some classic pixel art style images.  I think in the Tiger there is less than 8 different shades of gray.  I mean this isn't 8 bit artwork here with the camo, but the underlying gray scale image uses just a few shades and could have been made in Microsoft Paint, if anyone could stand doing such a thing.

The other pic compares 2 Panzer IV's made mostly in a pixel-by-pixel painting, but the T-34 is done using a bumpmap, which is why it looks like a little plastic toy.

There are some pixel art forums and those guys are fanatics about pixel art, and my work probably wouldn't qualify as "pixel art," but I do get lots of tips by following their advice:



PIxelArtTanks.jpg
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BumpmapVsPixelArt.jpg
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Pzt_Kanov

Rep: 7
votes: 9


PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 6:05 am Post subject: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Reply with quote

How do you guys make new shadows for a new vehicle in PitF/GtC?

Edit:

Found this http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3270333&mpage=1&key=&#3270337
 
But don't understand  100%. So I just make one shadow and keep rotating it?
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ScnelleMeyer

Rep: 159
votes: 13


PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 7:10 am Post subject: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Reply with quote

I never tried doing a new shadow for Pitf or GtC..
Maybe its possible to still make the shadows made with CCVehShEdit work by converting them in some way?

In the post you linked I believe Conrad made his shadows from a 3D model.


Edit: I checked the shadows now: I did not yet do a full test, but I think its possible to work with shadows created with CCVehShEdit along these lines:

- The shadows in Pitf/GtC are 32bit with ALFA-CHANNEL and this is the biggest difference from the older releases.

Unpack the shadows made with CCVehShEdit to .tgas
Create an alfa channel in one of thes images, paste here the shadow area (The green) from the background/RGB layer. bucket fill this green area with the correct GREY colour (8c8c8c) - Pick it from one of the Pitf shadows - alfa-channel.
Now turn the RGB back on and select it - then fill EVERYTHING on the background (RGB-Layer) with the very dark blue like on the Pitf shadows: (010017)

Make this operation an action in PS and then make PS batch edit the rest of the images the same way.
Then you need to rename images to Pitf naming convension - There is a "0" less in the .tga file names...
A programme called "Bulk renaming utility" is very handy for this.

Last thing is to make the .txt document that the shadows pack with.

Let me know how it goes Kanov:D

Btw what vehicle have you made?
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ScnelleMeyer

Rep: 159
votes: 13


PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 8:29 pm Post subject: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Reply with quote

Shadow animation made with Gimp.


Shadow Gif.gif
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CCMT shadow tga's
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Pzt_Kanov

Rep: 7
votes: 9


PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:00 pm Post subject: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Reply with quote

I understood about half of what you wrote lol

I just imported a T34 from CC3 to GtC in the zoomed in view but with out shadow because I started yesterday and didn't understand shit about shadows so let's hope a bit of trial error will fix that.

CC3 shadows are partial, GtC are full real shadows, I suppose I can't just transfer from CC3 to GtC? and besides the color of shadows when unpacked in cc3 is green but on GtC they are transparent black?

Plus I had some trouble to have the turret show up, wasted like 3 hrs in that. It turns out that the turret TGA is not read by GIMP as is, neither the hull for that matter, but the hull I could convert it to pixel type A8R8G8B8 and Gimp would read it, doing the same to the turret file would make it show in GIMP but it didn't show up in game, so I finally opened a tiger turret from the original game, deleted it and cut&pasted the t34 turret and it finally showed up.

Downloading Photoshop CS2 right now, maybe it will give less trouble.



t34_GtC.JPG
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Last edited by Pzt_Kanov on Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ScnelleMeyer

Rep: 159
votes: 13


PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:09 pm Post subject: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Reply with quote

Cool project!
- You could go the easy route of using the T-34 and other Sovjet tanks with shadows from Nomada Firefox's "1946" mod for GtC.
The shadows looks OK in that mod. (I do not know how he converted them from CC5 though.)

Quote:
CC3 shadows are partial, GtC are full real shadows, I suppose I can't just transfer from CC3 to GtC? and besides the color of shadows when unpacked in cc3 is green but on GtC they are transparent black?


You can not transfer the shadows directly.
When you get PS2 downloaded you will see that there is a "Channels" tab next to your "Layers" tab. If you open a GtC .tga shadow file it will have an "Alfa-Channel" there. - This is where the graphic showing in the game is located. - The "normal" layer seemes black as you say , but it is really a dark blue.
To convert the CC3 shadows to GtC the green part need to go into this Alfa channel.

PS2 should also be able to open and save 16-bit .tga files.
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Pzt_Kanov

Rep: 7
votes: 9


PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:45 pm Post subject: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Reply with quote

I'm now trying with World of Tanks and War Thunder models then viewing the models in this page:

https://3dviewer.net/


It lets you hide the turret/hull and other stuff, provided they have their own model. It does not cast shadows though but it is the best I have found. Blender has a million buttons and options and I'm just lost in that but if you have the knowledge I figure it would be easier to do it there. The page I provided is the best I have found so far, others do not let you hide parts of the tank, but if anyone finds an alternative please share, I'm looking for one that can make the models cast a shadow.

I just figured minutes ago how to load custom skins that you can download for free on other sites, so I'm pretty excited. I will try to load a custom tank tonight and see how it looks. Will try first to do it with one image and then will try the whole 17 images to get a 3d effect. Lots of tuning and experimentation needed, for example how far is the ideal zoom level to start working on the image and put it in a CC game.

If anyone wants to try using a particular model just ask and I will try to provide the 3d model obj if I can find it and then you can search for custom skins and use them on your own to make your own vehicles! I have soviet, american, german and many other nationalities.

By the way, any chance to get some The Bloody First models as obj or stl? I want to see how they look.



Tiger camo hull.PNG
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Tiger Hull WT
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Tiger camo Turret.PNG
 Description:
Tiger Turret. WarThunder
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Tiger camo Turret.PNG


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Pzt_Kanov

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votes: 9


PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2022 6:13 pm Post subject: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Reply with quote

Same 3D model, different camo downloaded from a page.


Tiger camo 2.PNG
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Aetius

Rep: 76.6
votes: 3


PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 6:36 am Post subject: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Reply with quote

Very interesting thread, somehow missed this one.

As it happens i'm adding vehicles to the Radzymin mod, i've already added SU-57 and Valentine IX tank for the soviets, see screenshot.
I plan to add a Panzerkampfwagen II Ausf. L "Luchs" for the germans, i use a downsized Pitf graphic for this but not 100% satisfied with it, i would like it to have a more pronounced camo scheme (like the tiger posted above here).

If you could help me with this i would appreciate it.

Aetius



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SU-57 and Valentine IX.jpg
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Pzt_Kanov

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votes: 9


PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 5:26 pm Post subject: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Reply with quote

Hi,

Here is how it looks: original model and with the same camo used on the Tiger. This is from World of Tanks, The site I got them from didn't have the one used in War Thunder. I assume by the image you posted that you wanted a Luchs using the 2cm KwK (there were several cannon and turret options) since the 3.7cm KwK looks too short in comparison to your image and the 2cm FlaK looks comically long!

As you can see there are from different 3D viewers, in the first one they look much nicer with shadows but you can't add skins and can't hide the Turret! and in the other one you can apply custom skins and hide specific parts but the models do not look as nice! that's life for you I guess. I think in Blender you should be able to even rotate the turret, not possible in these viewers I'm using.

There's another 3d viewer you can use, you must sign up first https://viewer.autodesk.com/ it has shadows, can hide the turret but the parts are not as individual as in http://3dviewer.net, they are like grouped together but it is not a big deal. I can't open it right now for some reason but is the one I was using at home. It is still very difficult to make them look right in game for me, it is not as easy as I had though just resize the model, you must touch up details everytime you try and minimize the image. I tried for several hours to get a Tiger down to game size but didn't look right, still trying. Maybe you have better luck.

Send me your email if you wish me to send you the zipped model so you can do tests yourself as I don't want to upload them here and put the site in trouble!



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Aetius

Rep: 76.6
votes: 3


PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:22 am Post subject: Re: Sharing tips for creating new vehicles. Reply with quote

I'll try the 3viewer links (sent you PM about th zip), i've tried experimenting with 3D images before but it makes my PC very slow or won't run (i have a very old pc of almost 15 years now that i'm quite fond of).
As it happens i was working on a tiger image to, using the GTC one as a basis.
I have the same problem, downsizing takes away a lot of detail that you have to touch up afterwards.



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