karlmortar
Rep: 16.7 votes: 2
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Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:32 am Post subject: A small attempt to make a more Historical LSA |
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i have heard in many places that CC players belives LSA to be extremly unbalanced, that the german player has NO CHANCE of stopping XXX Corps as there are no strong german forces in and between Eindhoven and Nijmegen.
I agree that the german BGs are very week and your only chance is to cut the corridor with 107thPz Bde.
So I have been thinking a bit and started to gather information on the german BGs, to try to find out what they had in manpower, AT guns, FlaK and so on and I found some rather interesting facts.
With this I have started to make the german BGs more stronger by adding the missing"hardware" into their Force pool, this also results in more squad slots and more points for "buying" troops.
When i have finished revising all BGs I will try make squads on both the allied and axis sides stronger/larger to make them more historical accurate.
Also a few vehicles will be added for the germans as well for more historical accuracy.
My only hope is that I don't overpower the germans to much!
My first revised BG: Kampfgruppe Becker (remnants of 3rd Fallschirmjäger Div.)
3rd Fj had about 600 men in september, with an reinforced Anti-tank unit and support from FJ StuG brigade 12.
NOTE: KGr Becker misses 1xFJ StuH42 (since there is no FJ StuH42 ingame and I don't know how to make one at the moment)
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Sapa
Rep: 76.3 votes: 8
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Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 2:44 pm Post subject: Re: A small attempt to make a more Historical LSA |
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Thanks for you effort!
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Tejszd
Rep: 133.6 votes: 19
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Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:48 am Post subject: Re: A small attempt to make a more Historical LSA |
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Sound good karlmortar....
Based on 4 StuG and 1 StuH42 you are creating 1 CC tank per 1 real tank. This is fine for the Germans since they were actually really weak at this time but then don't you have to do the same for the Allies? If you do then the Allies will be very tank/vehicle heavy. Example; the Gaurds Armoured Division (which is only 1 of the multiple divisions that made up XXX Corps) had 14,964 men and 343 tanks....
Usually actual quantities are divided by something when creating a BG in CC (example; 6 or 5 for large quantities and 3 or 2 small quantities, that is what I did for Meuse mod as I wanted some of the rare/unique tanks/vehicles to still be in the game).
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karlmortar
Rep: 16.7 votes: 2
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Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:58 am Post subject: Re: A small attempt to make a more Historical LSA |
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You have of course right, Tejszd. But fortunatly form me, allied BGs here are represented as Regiments/Brigades which makes things easier ( I HOPE!). I will only give them the tanks and men they are supoused to have. The thing is I have to find out how much they had!
Any information would be much appreciated!
Giving 40+ Sherman Vs to for a armourded brigade sounds ok to me, since Shermans just are paper tanks anyways, but coming to think of it I wonder if a player is EVER going to be using up all those shermans as they will probably NEVER get enough points to buy that much. But I'm going to try it, and if it doesn't cut or just isn't needed i'll just remove 1/4 or so .
Also for som balance german Bgs are given more AT power they actually had but didn't in LSA. The most powerful german BG right now is the 107th Pz Bde with almost 40x Panther VG tanks. Do not fear! Since Panthers have crappy armour in LSA and you only have enough points to take about 5 tanks into battle: there will be no unstoppable Panther rush with 15 tanks.
With regular Sherman Vs I have been able to destroy mutliple Panther tanks with relative ease,of course things are a bit differnt playing H2H.
Enough spouting bolloxs, here is the latest progress:
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karlmortar
Rep: 16.7 votes: 2
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Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:08 am Post subject: Re: A small attempt to make a more Historical LSA |
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Hmm..forgot to explain the Bgs a bit...
107th pz Bde, just check their TOE/OOB at axishistory factbook.
Unfortunatly the game lacks the Möbelwagen and Sd.Kfz 251/21 needed to fulfill the brigade's flak strenght.
The Möbelwagen is a FlaKpz IV with a open,boxy superstructure armed with a single 3,7cm FlaK 43, these were assigned to the pz-coys as moblie flak for the Panthers.
The Sd.Kfz 251/21 is a regular Hanomag HT with a trippel barreled 1,5cm FlaK gun, these were to protect the brigade HQ and panzergrenadier coys.
As the same with the FJ StuH42, these will be added when I figure out how to make my own vehicles.
Any help here as well is truly welcomed!
KGr Walther
A mix of FJ troops from FJ Rgt. von Hoffmann and SS troops from SS KGr Heinke and a few panthers from a Hermann Göring tank training coy (or possibly from 107th Pz, havn't found any information yet).
Added a few extra SS pioneers and flamethrowers due to an accompanying SS Pioneer coy in 'SS Heinke'
SS Jagdpz IV from the 10.SS Tank hunter unit from 10.SS Pz-Div.
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pvt_Grunt
Rep: 99.7 votes: 5
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Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:47 am Post subject: Re: A small attempt to make a more Historical LSA |
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There's 2 things to consider. Everyone is still woried about fp's, but it's not CC5 anymore or TLD where yo could fill all 15 units everytime. It's more to do with the points available. I dont think CC2 or 3 gave you forcepools, only the unit and the point cost. As karl said, 40+ Shermans means nothing if you have no points and I played most of the GC with available units but no points
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karlmortar
Rep: 16.7 votes: 2
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Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:20 am Post subject: Re: A small attempt to make a more Historical LSA |
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As karl said, 40+ Shermans means nothing if you have no points and I played most of the GC with available units but no points
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Yeah, I know what you are syaing. With the Irish guard I lost 2 tanks very earliy in the game and I couldn't replace them until a few day later.
So maybe 40+ Shermans wouldn't matter much, but it would be nice to look at your FP and feel the comfortable warmth of knowing that you have a huge amount of armour to back you up (although you can't get them! )
I have started to check the number of german troops available for each BG and I have had to raise the number for a few of them, in most cases there is enough troops to represent the historical counterpart.
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Ivan_Zaitzev
Rep: 56.1 votes: 3
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Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:03 am Post subject: Re: A small attempt to make a more Historical LSA |
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karlmortar wrote (View Post):
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As karl said, 40+ Shermans means nothing if you have no points and I played most of the GC with available units but no points
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Yeah, I know what you are syaing. With the Irish guard I lost 2 tanks very earliy in the game and I couldn't replace them until a few day later.
So maybe 40+ Shermans wouldn't matter much, but it would be nice to look at your FP and feel the comfortable warmth of knowing that you have a huge amount of armour to back you up (although you can't get them! ) .
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So which is the difference with vanilla LSA?
And, are you sure 33 Panthers is historical?
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The real Close Combat starts when you are out of ammo.
Have you hugged your AT Gun today?
My Youtube Channel
http://closecombat2.blogspot.com |
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karlmortar
Rep: 16.7 votes: 2
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Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:12 am Post subject: Re: A small attempt to make a more Historical LSA |
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The differance is going to concern about historical aspects. More troops for german bgs (if their manpower dosn't fit with their real counterparts), add more or new vehicles that were present and so on. The same will go for allied BGs.
Also make squads on both sides more realistic.
33 Panthers and 3xCommand Panthers are correct, at least according to his: http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=512
And since the brigade was recently formed, OMG was it's first combat operation.
The only thing that it is missing is it's Bergepanther recovery tanks.
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karlmortar
Rep: 16.7 votes: 2
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Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:16 am Post subject: Re: A small attempt to make a more Historical LSA |
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Forgot to say that it is 12 panthers/company (3 coys) and 1 of the panthers is the company commander's =1 Befhel panther
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squadleader_id
Rep: 53.2 votes: 7
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Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: A small attempt to make a more Historical LSA |
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I like the way this is heading...looking forward to see the final product!
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Tejszd
Rep: 133.6 votes: 19
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Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:28 am Post subject: Re: A small attempt to make a more Historical LSA |
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Good point on the points.
Definitely will be nice as the Germans to have a bit more kick when trying to defend....
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karlmortar
Rep: 16.7 votes: 2
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Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:39 am Post subject: Re: A small attempt to make a more Historical LSA |
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Good point on the points.
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Had that one coming, didn't I ?
Well, back to the 107th Panzer Brigade.
I spent a couple of hours fiddiling around and came up with this:
It's not the most beutyful CC has seen, but It will do for now. If you look very carefuly you should be able to see the Möbelwagens flak gun (which is a Flak 37 insteed of a FlaK 43, since there are no FlaK 43 ingame) and you should also notice that the Drilling's turret is totaly missplaced. I don't know to correct that, sadly. The Drilling is also incorretly equipped with a Quad 20mm (borrowed from Flakvierling) since there are no trippel 1.5cm flak guns in LSA. These things will be corrected in the future.
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kawasaky
Rep: 22.2 votes: 5
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Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:00 pm Post subject: Re: A small attempt to make a more Historical LSA |
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Heya karlmortar,
I will gather the info that I have on the OMG and will post them here in following days.
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karlmortar
Rep: 16.7 votes: 2
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Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:21 am Post subject: Re: A small attempt to make a more Historical LSA |
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I bow before your generosity, kawasaky
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karlmortar
Rep: 16.7 votes: 2
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kawasaky
Rep: 22.2 votes: 5
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Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:56 am Post subject: Re: A small attempt to make a more Historical LSA |
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karlmortar wrote (View Post):
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I bow before your generosity, kawasaky
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Don't! No dawg barks bcs of village, but for itself! I wanna playable LSA too
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karlmortar
Rep: 16.7 votes: 2
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Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:45 am Post subject: Re: A small attempt to make a more Historical LSA |
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I wanna playable LSA too
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Well who doesn't?
I have "upgaded my mod" to the newest Beta patch.
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papa_whisky
Rep: 42.2 votes: 4
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Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:29 pm Post subject: Re: A small attempt to make a more Historical LSA |
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What is a 'Drilling'?
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karlmortar
Rep: 16.7 votes: 2
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Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: A small attempt to make a more Historical LSA |
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The Drilling is a tripel mounted 1.5cm MG 151 (Wich were usualy found on Luftwaffe aircrafts) fitted on a Sd.Kfz 251, which became Sd.Kfz 251/21.
Drilling in english means: triplet
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