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johnsilver

Rep: 61.3
votes: 4


PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 8:48 pm Post subject: Re: VETBoB 71712 Reply with quote

No more crashes Platoon. "at the gates" as the saying goes and just looking around now at the newer units to allow them to catch up and get them into action a turn or 2.. KG Krag etc..

Looks pretty solid overall, though still think the idea of adding a few 76mm Shermans to the allied arsenal would help them out a bit.

The German 77th is unstoppable.. 6 Hetzers, 20SG, 12VG, several various MG units.. IMO? Still the most deadly unit and the amount of armor was cut by 2/3.


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platoon_michael

Rep: 47.6
votes: 25


PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:37 pm Post subject: Re: VETBoB 71712 Reply with quote

I agree the Allies need help and will try to correct it.
It's Dec.19th and currently there is no stopping the Axis.

I think maybe more Tanks for Allies,slightly weaker BG's for Axis and maybe relocate some exit VL's.

Something also needs to be answered as to why the Allies just "NEVER" have enough BG's on the strat map.
I'm starting to feel that the only way around this is to allow BG's to come back.



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johnsilver

Rep: 61.3
votes: 4


PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:48 am Post subject: Re: VETBoB 71712 Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm starting to feel that the only way around this is to allow BG's to come back.


After finished this 1st time through am going to run through it again with units set to return again to see how much more difficult it makes it.

Got to tell you.. RIGHT AFTER I made the post above regarding 76mm Shermans? Ran into the UK 29th Armored unit at Marche Smile On 24th December right now, 3 maps left and as mentioned, sort of "playing around" to allow different units time to make it to the front and the unit that was controlling Marche isn't a really strong one either.. KG Telkamp which is very light on infantry and not that much decent armor, as in Panthers and Jdg Panzer4's to match up with all those Firefly's have NEVER seen before in this fine mod..

Got hammered hard on 1st turn, this could be the allied unit was hoping would ride to their rescue :-)

Quote:
maybe relocate some exit VL's.


Not sure exactly where you could move them. They are already as far away as possible from initial deployment zones. Don't think possible to switch maps around.. Some maps are way harder.. Vieselam, Houfallize, couple others if tried to spell here without looking would get brutally wrong.


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johnsilver

Rep: 61.3
votes: 4


PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:24 am Post subject: Re: VETBoB 71712 Reply with quote

Nice again Smile Found the 2nd AD, or should I say? It found it found me. Noticed it has those 76mm Shermans, as well as a 90MM Tank killer. Shame that unit appeared on Hotton map 12/25 and only lasted 1 turn.

UK 29th lasted 3 turns, the best unit on the map for the Allies and appeared on Marche map. It took out 10 tanks, something I protect well as usually do most "heavy lifting" with infantry and armor for support, but that unit has everything, like those spotters that seem to have either rockets or heavy mortars also.

Ended on 12/26, 29th was the last Allied unit. Next time will set units to come back and try again and have a feeling both the 29th and 2nd will be much more difficult, especially if they have a chance to breakout and surprise the Axis units on the map elsewhere.

Outstanding upgrades to the mod thus far as for playability Platoon.

JS


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johnsilver

Rep: 61.3
votes: 4


PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: VETBoB 71712 Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm starting to feel that the only way around this is to allow BG's to come back.


This might be the method anyway, or at least leave a text document with the "finished product" showing how easy it is to modify the campaign.text and allow units to come back and give everyone a sort of "personal best feel"

My 2nd time thru the campaign (only on 12/1Cool and resistance is much stiffer with these units, showing up continually and of course.. The Axis is delayed with initially OOF units that were risky to deploy any armored units.

When get further in? That UK 29th is going to be plain murder, if either I stumble upon another tank friendly map.. Say Marche, or the Allies catch a unit that is fairly weak in armor/AT support. Same with that US unit that has several 76mm Shermans.. Things will be more interesting with them coming back and back.

Platoon.. If you have ever set units to come back.. Have u ever encountered the US 14th Cavalry when the get light on infantry when coming back, then deploy 7-8 AT guns? They just did it to me again this campaign. One of my most feared opponents is THAT setup, even vs infantry at a distance those 57mm guns they hide so well and the 3" can/will take out the Panthers.


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johnsilver

Rep: 61.3
votes: 4


PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:04 am Post subject: Re: VETBoB 71712 Reply with quote

When was Bastogne made a Allied supply depot? Was surprised after had taken it and then moved units out and units previously defeated showed up. Worse than Elsenborn ridge as bastogne they would have been free to go anywhere had not there been units close by.

Nice idea to make it an allied supply depot, but definitely took me by surprise.

Changing the settings to allow units to return made it more of a challenge. The 4 allied "tough" units kept switching locales where they would come back. one of the Allied units with Calliopes actually destroyed every piece of armor the 902 and the 901st Axis units had and had to move in another to stop them from marching.

Artillery seemed to actually be used on maps that mattered which think was a point you made earlier Platoon. It seemed to be "set" to maps where it mattered on many occasions by the allies.

Ceased on the 26th Dec. was as good as finished and will start it over the next time with Axis BG fixed. Ought to make it even harder without being able to go in with mostly Infantry as prefer.


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platoon_michael

Rep: 47.6
votes: 25


PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:30 am Post subject: Re: VETBoB 71712 Reply with quote

I've been working on the Force Pools the past few days.
I think you'll be happy with the Allied results,with the AB Battle Groups getting the most improvement.
I just noticed the other day I somehow never added any AB Rifle Squads.

Some Units you are really going to have to watch your Force Pool in order to get them.
There one day/Gone the next.


That and trying my luck with CaptSam's ideas for creating new Tanks.


It's slow going on both parts. Embarassed
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salhexe

Rep: 70.1
votes: 6


PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: VETBoB 71712 Reply with quote

johnsilver wrote (View Post):
When was Bastogne made a Allied supply depot? Was surprised after had taken it and then moved units out and units previously defeated showed up. Worse than Elsenborn ridge as bastogne they would have been free to go anywhere had not there been units close by.

Nice idea to make it an allied supply depot, but definitely took me by surprise.



I do not think platoon_michael offend if I say that was my idea I used in my various other vetmod by ardenne. This is not historical but I think recreate the best conditions of the real campaign, as the Germans never conquered Bastogne,while in the game (all Ardenne mods) Ai not ever defend the city in one turn. So, if the Germans conquest Bastogne  will have another unit to fight the next turn.
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platoon_michael

Rep: 47.6
votes: 25


PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:47 pm Post subject: Re: VETBoB 71712 Reply with quote

salhexe has brought forth the best ideas so far when I asked him to help create a Vet. Mod for this Mod.
The original goal has been and continues to be to add a Vet. Mod to this Mod by just changing the settings..........No additional download like before.


I still do NOT understand the missing weapon Icons on the Battle group screen when using salhexe's settings.
Hours/Days/Weeks/Months of trying this/that and the other thing has only left me with frustration.
When I did play his settings despite the missing Icons I was happy to see that I couldn't just roll over the Allies
At this point I can only conclude that the game can not accept either...........

A) Multiple Teams/Weapons/Soldiers with the name despite different Class #'s
Or
B) The game isn't able to produce the extra added Teams/Weapons/Soldiers that Matrix beta testers and or Steve McClaire says it can.

One option I have not tried yet and currently don't have the will to try due to the many previous attempts of failing is to name every team/weapon/soldier/vehicle/weapon as Vet. and see if that works.

I.E.
Mg42 for H2H
Mg42 Vet.
Mg42 Recruit/Line/Elite/Green etc etc

Way too much work for what could possibly end up as to little reward.If you know what I mean?

The goal now is to ...............

A) Understand how to get the Allied BG's on the strategic map so that playing as the Germans presents a true challenge in a GC.
I can only assume that this is either done by.......
A) Editing the amount of VL's per map so that the inner most maps have the most VL's,hopefully getting the AI to advance towards the inner maps and not sit on the supply depot maps thus not creating a open map for the next BG to show up on said date.
B) Cant be done
or
C) Edit the win/loss score per the Campaign file.
D) Create the GC file with More Allied Depots just to get BG's to appear as salhexe did with Bastogne.
E) Edit the Campaign.txt to allow BG's to come back,unfortunately the games does this for BOTH sides.Not just one or the other,A huge downfall if you ask me.

I once experimented with with the stock GC file to just place BG's on maps that were NOT supply depots thus putting Allied BG's inside the strategic map rather than on the outer perimeter,but that caused the game to crash.
I reported it but I do not know if they fixed it or if it could even be fixed.
Answer D may be the only way around this.

Unfortunately as johnsilver and I have seen the Germans are still way to strong to stop.
johnsilver mentions that he stopped at Dec.26th.

That's unacceptable.

Hopefully the next update to the Force Pools can aid in a GC worth actually playing.
The only problem is that this is still a learning adventure to me and implementing it then testing it then editing it.

Sucks as far as I'm concerned.
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salhexe

Rep: 70.1
votes: 6


PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:03 pm Post subject: Re: VETBoB 71712 Reply with quote

Johnsilver win Gc at day 26 with the latest vetmod (hero vs recruit) settings? Shocked
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platoon_michael

Rep: 47.6
votes: 25


PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:09 pm Post subject: Re: VETBoB 71712 Reply with quote

No sir,

I was not able to include your settings due to the missing weapon icon issue.



Sorry.
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johnsilver

Rep: 61.3
votes: 4


PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:55 pm Post subject: Re: VETBoB 71712 Reply with quote

salhexe wrote (View Post):
Johnsilver win Gc at day 26 with the latest vetmod (hero vs recruit) settings? Shocked


Supposed to be Vet vs vet isn't it? Have played every one of His (and yours) for the last year or so and granted.. Have not looked up the settings for quite some time :-(

As for the finish date? This campaign have finished no less than a dozen times from the axis side. it is nothing new. Good spots on maps, where the allies almost always defend.. I wouldn't say finishing on the 26th was good. When units were not set to comeback i finished on the 24th.

Follow a general path of 'destruction" each time and continue on, it is why think some of the units are too powerful in some areas, the 77th Axis being one. They have (last time) 20VG and 12+ VG to go along with 6 Hetzers. That unit was unstoppable until their cohesion became "unhinged"

The SS units have been "de fanged" for the most part, or for how i attack the maps. Most are in dire shortage of infantry, but are still stacked with various tracked vehicles and tanks. Generally good for a couple of maps, then defending an allied supply hex with the armor and surviving infantry.

Cochen, the 77th, 78th, Bayer, SS Kullman and late arriving Hansen are my favored units. Fallschirm units are deadly as well in most maps.


Quote:
So, if the Germans conquest Bastogne  will have another unit to fight the next turn.


And a fine idea it was also Smile  Shock factor alone the 1st time noticed an allied unit in the rear area was priceless and your reasoning makes perfect sense. A very nice addition to a fine campaign.

Last edit :-(

Quote:
with the latest vetmod (hero vs recruit) settings?


Since wasn't very far into the campaign again anyway.. Restarted with hero vs recruit. This further shrinks the Axis infantry some and should be interesting.. Thanks for the idea Salhexe. Will let you both know how this works out. Should put a nice "crimp" into things.


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Last edited by johnsilver on Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:48 pm; edited 2 times in total
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johnsilver

Rep: 61.3
votes: 4


PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:06 pm Post subject: Re: VETBoB 71712 Reply with quote

Quote:
salhexe has brought forth the best ideas so far when I asked him to help create a Vet. Mod for this Mod.


I tell you one thing right away to make it more difficult and almost don't want to even mention it, cause it is a portion of the reason enjoy the TTvetmod(s).. Take away somewhat from the Axis anti armor firepower.. not a *WHOLE* lot, but some.. The Panzergrenadier units? Go from 4 to 3 and from 3 to 2 on the amount of Panzerfaust. The Leaders? Do away with 100m and give them 60m. I have had them moving fast, FIRE and hit/kill a Sherman before at near maximum range :-(

Ditto cutting down Fallschirm units from 3-2. The few spahtruppe with 2, give 'em 1.

my 2c on how to make it harder from **this** perspective that is 90% infantry oriented.


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platoon_michael

Rep: 47.6
votes: 25


PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:16 pm Post subject: Re: VETBoB 71712 Reply with quote

Your not really going to get a whole lot of difference using different settings.
They are not yet completed.
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johnsilver

Rep: 61.3
votes: 4


PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:58 am Post subject: Re: VETBoB 71712 Reply with quote

platoon_michael wrote (View Post):
Your not really going to get a whole lot of difference using different settings.
They are not yet completed.


Hero vs Recruit has made a lot of difference alone thus far. 295th and 190th were worthless from the start, yet the 295th was forced to take S/Eifel, Schoneberg and already is going to have to defend Schoneberg again.

Most units that had 9 Panzergrenadier of both types (barely enough) before now only have 5-6 of each and the 77th now has just 12VG and 2 Hetzers.

Already, as of day 2 lost 2 spotters, more than have lost in a campaign yet.

Not looking forward to the time keep running into the 4 strong allied armored units later on, as this could be the setting that works... Hero vs recruit, units set to come back and so far your last efforts.

looking forward to your latest efforts Platoon. This appears to be the best challenge so far and enjoying it immensely Smile


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johnsilver

Rep: 61.3
votes: 4


PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:55 am Post subject: Re: VETBoB 71712 Reply with quote

salhexe wrote (View Post):
Johnsilver win Gc at day 26 with the latest vetmod (hero vs recruit) settings? Shocked


Took a little longer (actual timewise) to play it this time set at Hero vs Recruit, but it would have been until the 26th again more than likely..

Currently control/contested every Allied supply depot thru 1st turn on the 25th, though many of the Axis strong (at start) units are very weak and lack cohesion. Bayer for example, is out of most infantry reserves, 901st (bore brunt of Calliope equipped armored at Martelance) has only had the single JadgPanther the last 2 days left and is running out of infantry and 251/10's. Cochen has little left. Kullman, whom tried to save for Marche on the advance as much as possible, is the only unit still in top shape.

It was different using 2, sometimes 3 regular Grenadier infantry every skirmish and a little harder.

JS


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salhexe

Rep: 70.1
votes: 6


PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:55 am Post subject: Re: VETBoB 71712 Reply with quote

Have in this fpools release jagdtiger, Sturtiger, Luchs, Tiger? Becouse actually we try a fpools, for vetmod,  more historical without this tanks (there were not in Ardennes).
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johnsilver

Rep: 61.3
votes: 4


PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:41 pm Post subject: Re: VETBoB 71712 Reply with quote

salhexe wrote (View Post):
Have in this fpools release jagdtiger, Sturtiger, Luchs, Tiger? Becouse actually we try a fpools, for vetmod,  more historical without this tanks (there were not in Ardennes).


The only vehicle have used of the above is 1 Tiger. Am thinking Platoon pulled the Sturmtiger and Jadgtiger out in the last 2 releases? Have not seen them in the FP at least. The ST don't bother with anyway.. it takes forever to reload Sad Lynx either.

While on subject on "killer" weapons.. The 234/1, 251/9, sdkfz 7/1, any 20mm vehicle for the axis. Those and the US 50C seem to destroy anything, in heavy protection (buildings) or not.


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platoon_michael

Rep: 47.6
votes: 25


PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:17 pm Post subject: Re: VETBoB 71712 Reply with quote

I did change the Fpools because I didn't like what I had done.
Now they are more historically accurate once the next release comes about,when IDK


Trying to just use the original FPools from CCIV just isn't a option either since your going from fixed and shared fpools to single fpools.


That's requiring me to read. And forcing me to decide how many for how long now that one can edit the fpools by every single date.


I.E.
Tiger Tanks only show up on Dec. 18th maybe 19th  and are only in the fpools for 1 maybe 2 days. (can't tell you everything)
Also
The Nebelwerfer
It's only in the Fpools for the first 2 days,after that It's gone.

Allies
When/where does one get air support through the Fpools
Ok that was a dumb one put you get the point.


Chances are if you played any of these Beta's you'r not going to be happy going on the defensive playing as the Germans.
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johnsilver

Rep: 61.3
votes: 4


PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:05 pm Post subject: Re: VETBoB 71712 Reply with quote

Quote:
Chances are if you played any of these Beta's you'r not going to be happy going on the defensive playing as the Germans.


I wouldn't say that. It is better to get a better feel for it than go rampaging thru. Shortage (or no) infantry in some of the BG's is more of a hindrance than the heavy armor to me. Peiper. Krause and Byrd for instance have armor and tracked vehicles, but virtually no infantry and IMO are of little use.


Quote:
The Nebelwerfer
It's only in the Fpools for the first 2 days,after that It's gone.


That "super weapon" IMO should be left out. it rains down to much destruction.

As for a nice source on reference material for US, German Guns (AT/Field) there is Ian Hogg's excellent series.
Peter Chamberlain has a very nicely put together resource material book on US and UK armor in WW2.

Multiple German ones available on the subject out there.


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