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What do you think of a 1 to 1 ratio mod on a hex based strategic map?
I think it is a great idea!
77%
 77%  [ 7 ]
I think it is a good idea.
11%
 11%  [ 1 ]
I think it is OK but I probably wouldn't play it.
11%
 11%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 9

GaryChildress

Rep: 20.3
votes: 3


PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:32 pm Post subject: Project Proposal: 1 to 1 ratio Mod Reply with quote

By 1 to 1 ratio, I mean a mod where 1 battlegroup = 1 company; 3 battlegroups = 1 Regiment and so on. No more naming a battlegroup of 15 teams the 114th Parachute Regiment or what not. In the game a battlegroup realistically should represent about a company. Correspondingly a map should be continuous with other maps in the game on a 1 to 1 basis. In other words the next map should begin close to where the previous one left off.

In this thread I would like to determine the feasibility of doing what I have proposed above.

1. The strategic map: I would like to create a grand campaign map something like the following:



2. The time period: Ideally I would like to use a contemporary setting, meaning modern vehicles and weapons.

3. The platform: Here is where I need help at the moment. Which CC installment would best fit what I want to achieve? Last Stand Arnhem is the most recent installment. But it has blowable bridges. I don't want blowable bridges because only one side would be allowed to blow them. Ideally I wish I could use CC: Modern Tactics because it has loadable vehicles, however, there is no campaign capability in it.

Any and all ideas are welcome! I've also included a poll to get a feel for what people think of the idea.

Thanks for any help and interest!
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Ivan_Zaitzev

Rep: 56.1
votes: 3


PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:42 pm Post subject: Re: Project Proposal: 1 to 1 ratio Mod Reply with quote

Being able to load vehicles is overrated. And in LSA you don't have to use blowable bridges if you don't want to.


The real Close Combat starts when you are out of ammo.
Have you hugged your AT Gun today?
My Youtube Channel
http://closecombat2.blogspot.com
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GaryChildress

Rep: 20.3
votes: 3


PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:56 pm Post subject: Re: Project Proposal: 1 to 1 ratio Mod Reply with quote

Ivan_Zaitzev wrote (View Post):
Being able to load vehicles is overrated. And in LSA you don't have to use blowable bridges if you don't want to.


Do you think LSA would be the best platform for this mod?
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Therion

Rep: 27.4
votes: 4


PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:33 am Post subject: Re: Project Proposal: 1 to 1 ratio Mod Reply with quote

WaR because it's the only one that I have Razz .


Wonderland - my mod for Armored Brigade

Killing for peace is like fucking for orgasm.
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southern_land

Rep: 150.9
votes: 14


PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:00 am Post subject: Re: Project Proposal: 1 to 1 ratio Mod Reply with quote

I was playing around with this idea a year or so back.  To my mind I wanted the opposing forces constrained by geographic features ie between two rivers, the sea and mountains and so on.

Thought about A Yugoslav mod with the Partisans in a pocket, the kokoda trail or a Sov vz German in the Carpathrians but the most work I did was a concept for the winter war battle for Vipurii



Strat Vipurii test copy.jpg
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buuface

Rep: 56.4
votes: 1


PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:45 am Post subject: Re: Project Proposal: 1 to 1 ratio Mod Reply with quote

The ability to stack, merge ad swap around battle groups (which LSA provides) would certainly add to the playability and realism of a project like this.
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schrecken

Rep: 195
votes: 15


PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:34 am Post subject: Re: Project Proposal: 1 to 1 ratio Mod Reply with quote

Gary, there has been an update to LSA so you can use all 15 team slots now in all BG's if you want to.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2858442
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Therion

Rep: 27.4
votes: 4


PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:07 am Post subject: Re: Project Proposal: 1 to 1 ratio Mod Reply with quote

buuface wrote (View Post):
The ability to stack, merge ad swap around battle groups (which LSA provides) would certainly add to the playability and realism of a project like this.

Wouldn't merging battlegroups change the whole 1 battlegroup = 1 company thing?


Wonderland - my mod for Armored Brigade

Killing for peace is like fucking for orgasm.
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GaryChildress

Rep: 20.3
votes: 3


PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:46 am Post subject: Re: Project Proposal: 1 to 1 ratio Mod Reply with quote

Therion wrote (View Post):
buuface wrote (View Post):
The ability to stack, merge ad swap around battle groups (which LSA provides) would certainly add to the playability and realism of a project like this.

Wouldn't merging battlegroups change the whole 1 battlegroup = 1 company thing?


I don't think that would necessarily be so. 2 battlegroups merging would basically be like 2 companies merging. Each battlegroup would stilll represent a company either way. If you have two battlegroups then you have two companies.
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GaryChildress

Rep: 20.3
votes: 3


PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 3:10 am Post subject: Re: Project Proposal: 1 to 1 ratio Mod Reply with quote

OK. I've come up with an idea for a fictional war of the present between the US and the OpFor. The map will be set in a mostly suburban province somewhere in Europe or Eastern Russia.

Basically I'll have 3 supply points for each side. The US will use a Heavy Brigade Combat Team and the OpFor will be composed of a fictional Brigade Combat Team entirely of my creation. A US HBCT basically has 3 recon companies, 4 tank companies and 4 mech infantry companies which I'll divide up into tank heavy companies and infantry heavy companies by mixing the infantry and tank elements. The OpFor will have a total of 3 recon companies and 9 mixed companies compared to the US 8 maneuver companies. The US will have slightly better equipment but the OpFor will have an additional company to make up for it. I'll probably throw in 1 special forces company for each side as well, just to make things interesting.

Here is a preliminary drawing of the strategic map I intend upon working with. The middle of the map is separated by an unfordable river with 3 bridges across it. The bridge hexes will be no man's land to start with and thus will start out as meeting engagements.

What does everyone think? Look interesting? Have better ideas?

Thanks.

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GaryChildress

Rep: 20.3
votes: 3


PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 3:36 am Post subject: Re: Project Proposal: 1 to 1 ratio Mod Reply with quote

Here's a slightly more likely configuration for the map. 49 hexes instead of 51. Finding good maps for the campaign will no doubt be difficult so it's probably better to shave off whatever I can do without.

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ArmeeGruppeSud

Rep: 9.5
votes: 7


PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:07 am Post subject: Re: Project Proposal: 1 to 1 ratio Mod Reply with quote

This is basically what i proposed in the ideas for CC6 thread at CSO, i cant upload all the images because ithey are on the Pent3 which cant use USB flash drives, and the Pent4 aint got a 1.4floppy drive  Sad

cheers AGS


RIP

http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=10576
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:38 am Post subject: Re: Project Proposal: 1 to 1 ratio Mod Reply with quote

Hmm, the combat elements of a Company would roughly form 1,5 active rosters (15 units). So basically BGs will be destroyed in 2-3 intensive combats maximum, unless it plans to have very heavy offboard elements, so most of the teams would just act as spotters.
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GaryChildress

Rep: 20.3
votes: 3


PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:32 am Post subject: Re: Project Proposal: 1 to 1 ratio Mod Reply with quote

Dima wrote (View Post):
Hmm, the combat elements of a Company would roughly form 1,5 active rosters (15 units). So basically BGs will be destroyed in 2-3 intensive combats maximum, unless it plans to have very heavy offboard elements, so most of the teams would just act as spotters.


This is a good point. One thing I suppose could be done is to reinforce the force pools maybe on day 3, effectively representing replacements. I assume this can be done in LSA? Also the entire campaign itself might be limited to maybe 5-6 days/nights (10-12 turns) maybe?

For the American companies an infantry squad itself would be broken into two teams, an "A" Team and a "B" Team. So one squad would take up 2 battlegroup slots instead of 1.

It's entirely possible that both players could end up "duking it out" expending all their forces just fighthing over the first row of hex maps. So victory conditions would probably need to be adjusted accordingly.

Can anyone think of any other problems for this mod which might present challenges to overcome?
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GaryChildress

Rep: 20.3
votes: 3


PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:51 am Post subject: Re: Project Proposal: 1 to 1 ratio Mod Reply with quote

Another couple questions:

1. If I use CC:LSA as the base for my mod, can I use maps from other CC installments in LSA? Could I use maps from CCtLD or CCMT for instance? Or would that require too much recoding and other compatibility issues?

2. It's been a while since I touched LSA and even in the beginning I only did a few battles. Therefore I don't recall or know the answer to this but can battlegroups be paradropped in the middle of the game on hexes of the player's choice or do para reinforcements need to arrive only at predetermined supply points. I suspect it is the latter. but the former would present an interesting twist to the campaign.

Thanks again for everyone's help and interest!
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schrecken

Rep: 195
votes: 15


PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:12 am Post subject: Re: Project Proposal: 1 to 1 ratio Mod Reply with quote

LSa can use maps from CC5,CCMT, WaR, tLD (plus all the converted cc3 maps) with no recoding



Paras can land where and when you want as the campaign designer.
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buuface

Rep: 56.4
votes: 1


PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:52 am Post subject: Re: Project Proposal: 1 to 1 ratio Mod Reply with quote

In my experience of playing custom operations/campaigns in CC3-LSA, having a strategy arrangement whereby both sides start on an even footing with roughly even strength groups could well result in, as you suggested, a great slug-fest back and forth over a very small amount of territory (which believe me, gets old very fast). This issue will be exasperated by 3 bridge maps (ie choke points) which you have produced on draft strategy map. If a group does manage to break through and across the river it will likely be too spent to continue much further.

What usually works better imho is one side on the attack, with the defending forces intialliy weaker but with stronger groups arriving afterwards creating the possiblity of a counter-attack and/or effecting an encriclement or the attacking force.

RD_Overkensin
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DAK_Legion

Rep: 86.3
votes: 20


PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:12 pm Post subject: Re: Project Proposal: 1 to 1 ratio Mod Reply with quote

Hi!

Good Idea!

I think that there is no problem to use CCMT or TLD Maps in LSA.

could use the VDV russian airborne mod for CCMT with IDEA!....USA vs Russia......contained a workbook !!! Modern Warfare!



http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=7483
 
good luck with your project!


heia Safari!!
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GaryChildress

Rep: 20.3
votes: 3


PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:18 am Post subject: Re: Project Proposal: 1 to 1 ratio Mod Reply with quote

buuface wrote (View Post):
In my experience of playing custom operations/campaigns in CC3-LSA, having a strategy arrangement whereby both sides start on an even footing with roughly even strength groups could well result in, as you suggested, a great slug-fest back and forth over a very small amount of territory (which believe me, gets old very fast). This issue will be exasperated by 3 bridge maps (ie choke points) which you have produced on draft strategy map. If a group does manage to break through and across the river it will likely be too spent to continue much further.

What usually works better imho is one side on the attack, with the defending forces intialliy weaker but with stronger groups arriving afterwards creating the possiblity of a counter-attack and/or effecting an encriclement or the attacking force.

RD_Overkensin


The only thing I don't like about starting out one side weaker and then offsetting it with stronger forces later is that it becomes harder to balance the game. It requires more playtesting etc in order to determine at what point the reinforcements should arrive etc in order to give both players an equal fighting change to win. The way I have it set now, each side starts out on an equal foot and has an equal chance of winning.

One thing I could do is deploy only half of each brigade forward and leave the other half off map to arrive later in the game via the rear supply hexes. That way the initial forces could slug it out until exhausted and then the follow up forces would have a larger map to work with and maneuver on. Something like the following:

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kweniston

Rep: 57.9
votes: 1


PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 3:52 pm Post subject: Re: Project Proposal: 1 to 1 ratio Mod Reply with quote

Just a suggestion: how about making the front one or two hexes bigger than the amount of companies on it? Perhaps maybe only on the side(s), so you could choose to try to flank.
The front in the middle seems a bit 'static' to me, but I may be wrong.
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