No, no, no no.. most of us don’t like to be worshiped. Though, there are a special type of personality who like that.
hmm, if you walk into an room and a hundred people started clapping their hands and cheering because you had arrived ... how would you feel? I meant we all like being worshiped in a general sense, since we all seem suffer to from tendencies of pride.
To be totally honest, I do not believe many want that type of “worship”. If I would kiss and lick my fathers- or mothers feet’s (who created me) they would…
If my son would lick my feet’s and scream hallelujah and yahoo I would be very worried.
Na, I believe most prefers more dignified relations....
I'm not an expert of the Bible, but from what I've read ... it seems God wants us to worship Him in Spirit and in truth.
John 4:23
"Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks."
The point I was trying to make (by posting the Bible story about the woman) was to simply shown a difference between your idea about how you think God wants to be worshiped, compared to the type of worship that is expressed towards God voluntarily by people who believe that Jesus is God when they meet Him and/or are thankful for want God/Jesus has done for them.
The woman was overwhelmed with emotion and gratitude at the realization of who Jesus was, and expressed thanks in her own way.
Lets test it: Lets say a parent only instruct SOME of here children about that electric socket danger, and the parent don’t instruct ALL of here children about the danger… What would you call that parent? Unfair? Neglectful? Or simply Cruel?
What do you call a God that only instruct SOME but not ALL his "children" how to come to heaven?
Given that one don’t indulge in a double standard… I mean, how many in the Americas heard about Jesus in 1400th?
It seems to me that God is being very direct in His instructions, and gives good reasons for us to select the way that is to our advantage.
The Bible makes references to God's plan of salvation as being accessible to all and simple to understand ... yet few find it?”
Perhaps the problem isn't in the design of God's plan? It sounds like the choice is ours to make, and God let's us decide ... is that fair?
A fair god must be time- and spatial invariant* or he would no be fair. So, how many bibles where there in say, year 100? How many had heard about god in the Americas up to 1492? How many up in Scandinavia had heard about the biblical god in say, year 700? So, -- fair?
It’s easy for you and me to sit in a suburb in 2012, educated, in a rich country where supply of bibles are so large they are even free. So, yeh, I guess most people in the western world have heard about Jesus and God and even own a bible or can get one if they pleases.
But see, beeing fair is reaching everyone!!!! Evens the poorest and most remote people, in any time* at any place….
Anything but that is unfair.
So, either your God is unfair, or the Bible got it wrong.
*And from New Testament he must be time and spatial invariant from year 0-45 or so.
You bring up some legitimate questions, but also make many assumptions.
We of course don't know what happens to people after death ... where their spirit goes (heaven, hell, or some interim state). We also don't know how each person was judged and by what measure.
There are many examples in the Bible of people perishing because of the way they decided to live their lives, which should make us wonder why.
We know that actions produce consequences, as seen in the physical world/universe we live in. The Bible clearly links our actions to consequences, and since we have the ability to predict the future outcome of our actions by means of prior experience (or someone's previous experience) or by trustworthy data related to the scenario ... then we are also accountable for the choices we make.
It may be that some of our choices have unfairly affected an innocent, but then again who would be at fault?
Your assumption that God has not given equal information and opportunity to everyone seems valid in the context which you have framed it. But the Bible also speaks about the record of nature and the abilities which God gave us all ... most importantly our conscience.
"Romans 1:
18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse."
According to the Bible every person should be able to recognize they are living in a created universe and are themselves part of that creation ... and therefore seek their creator. They should also realize the should do good things that reflect the intrinsic morality our inner voice conveys. As a result we should also realize we can not accomplish the acts which we would like to ... and therefore submit our lives to the Gospel in order to receive the power to begin to.
Perhaps many other inequalities are the product of the poor choices mankind has made throughout the ages. As mentioned before from the Bible ...
"However, You are just in all that has come upon us; for You have dealt faithfully, but we have done wickedly"
also, a side note about conscience taken from Matthew Henry's commentary
Conscience is that candle of the Lord which was not quite put out, no, not in the Gentile world. The heathen have witnessed to the comfort of a good conscience.
Be this thy brazen bulwark of defence,
Still to preserve thy conscious innocence.
- Hor.
and to the terror of a bad one:
No lash is heard, and yet the guilty heart
Is tortur'd with a self-inflicted smart
- Juv. Sat. 13.
Last edited by davidssfx on Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
If you study the Bible, it's possible to understand why Jesus is the only way
And if you study the penthouse forums you come to realise that although you never thought it could happen to you; actually it can... usually with a blond
And if you study the penthouse forums you come to realise that although you never thought it could happen to you; actually it can... usually with a blond
I'll pass on that one ... was one of my toughest and longest battles, to break free from pornography. And now is something I'm really ashamed of ... wish I had started my life better so I didn't have to go through that. Oh well, it's great to have it in the past anyway.
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:58 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions
Funny how life at our age (im 51) changes us but makes us equal in a way. I was brought up to think for myself, tho my father was a freemason and my mother was a devout christian, (total opposites in their own way) . I rejected both , but was able to have these intelligent people except how i felt about their beliefs.
I get a good laugh at some of the statements here, but must admit i lean with Stalky and Southern Land, US Brake and others.
I hope those with their beliefs achieve their desires, and i hope that davidssx dosnt leave this forum because he feels confronted by us atheists or whatever were termed.
Debate is a good thing Platoon Micheal.. when it stops ... then starts the war..
But i think if my sides wrong then hell wont be so bad... the majority of us will be there
And ide like to get some battle on with Stalky and co.... plus a few beers.
Cya in Purgatory Gents.
Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:49 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions
Christian or other religions are nothing compared to the agro Muslims.
Its not a religion its a cult, if there was a God do you really think he'd tell one guy to try to subdue the whole world with fire and sword (same guy also happens to be a polygamous paedo).
Islam is hateful, aggressive, anti-semitic and homophobic, the worst of the other religions has nothing on it. Try a heated discussion with them, they will promise to behead you!
What shape is the planet earth?
......................................
The Bible: Flat and square like a table
@ US_Brake, if you had actually read the Bible, you would know that the shape of the earth is never mentioned
That notion is an atheist's fallacy
That foolish notion comes from a complete misunderstanding of and misrepresentation of, Luke 4:5.
The misunderstanding stems from the ignorance of an atheist who wrongly assumed that Luke was implying that Jesus could see "all the kingdoms of the world" with ordinary physical vision.
It was then, as it is now, common knowledge, that nobody, using ordinary physical vision can see the entire world
_______________________________________
Again it is a total misunderstanding of biblical scripture.
Not just by atheists, but also by some Christians (who both, wrongly, interpret the 7 day creation as literal 24 hour earth days).
Of course 24 hour earth days never existed until AFTER the creation of the planet earth
The 7 day creation story is allegorical.
It is my personal belief, that the 7 day creation story (also remember Genesis 1-2 was recorded in Ancient Hebrewic poetic form, making it easy to pass from one generation to the next), was in fact, Adam's description of visions of the creation process, that were given to Adam over 7 days.
Of course there wEere no modern scientic terms included
The: "Let the be light" and there was light, of Genesis 1:3, may well have been Adam's description of the Big Bang.
Making a song and dance over the ancient wording is of no consequence,
The important and essential message of the Genesis creation story is just this:
All that exists was created by God.
Ok, the silly 10,000 year concept is based on 7 day creation, plus the number of years calculated from the geneologies.
The geneologies are probably reasonably accurate, but how long the earth, or the universe existed before Adam is never explicitly mentioned in the Bible, so it could be 100 billions years old.
It really does not matter
With those two fallacies exposed, the conclusions you made in your post, which were based on incorrect assumptions, become of no consequence.
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:40 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions
I'm not sure about stereotypes like "muslims are mean" or "christian people burn out anybody who thinks different". "Mean Muslims" usually have political or economical reasons to send fanatics to bomb other people, and it is the church the institution that organized the barbecue of "witchery". The individual is not "mean" by itself, not even muslims as acebars tells. The masses are great for encouraging lots of people to do bad things. Wich religion is not a problem, the problem comes when lots of people decided over other that his religion is right and that the people who do not think like them has to be burned, bombed, killed, etc.
Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:57 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions
Very few humans knew that the earth was a sphere before modern times.
Among the ancient Greeks, Homer thought the world to be flat. In contrast, Pythagoras postulated that the earth was round. A century later, Aristotle sided with the theory of the roundness of the earth.
Leave it to the clever Greek investigator Eratosthenes to bring it all together with a calculation (and a remarkably accurate one!) about the diameter of the earth, and also the inclination of its axis of rotation to its orbital plane about the sun.
Centuries later, independent work was done by Muslims as Europe descended into the Dark Ages. By the 9th century, many Muslim scholars took it for granted that the Earth was a sphere. The proof, said astronomer Ibn Hazm, "is that the Sun is always vertical to a particular spot on Earth". It was 500 years before that realisation dawned on Galileo. The calculations of Muslim astronomers were so accurate that in the 9th century they reckoned the Earth's circumference to be 40,253.4km --less than 200 km out. Later Europeans mistakenly attribute the work for Nicolaus Copernicus.
Surah Naziat 79:30: Ali Unal :
"And after that He has spread out the earth in the egg-shape (for habitability)."
Surah Naziat 79:30: Rashad Khalifah:
"He (Allah) made the earth egg-shaped."
Surah Naziat 79:30: Syed Vickar Ahamed
"And more, He has extended the earth (far and wide also in the shape of an egg)."
Surah Naziat 79:30: QXP - Shabbir Ahmed:
"And after that He made the earth shoot out from the Cosmic Nebula and made it spread out egg-shaped. ('Dahaha' entails all the meanings rendered (21:30), (41:11))."
Surah Naziat 79:30: Yahiya Emerick:
"He shaped the earth as an egg after that."
In Medieval Europe, where there was little contact with the Muslim world, most except for the educated population thought the earth to be flat. What happened?
Seeing is believing
Humanity took a big step forward after WWII in science. The V2 rocket provided humans with the first (partial) view of earth from space from a rocket.
On August 23, 1966, just as Lunar Orbiter I was about to pass behind the moon, mission controllers executed an unplanned maneuver to point the camera away from the lunar surface and toward Earth. The result was the world's first (full) view of Earth from space. The photograph was called "the picture of the century."
I find it odd that God wasn't aware of the shape and age of his creation until much later when it was discovered by Humans using science and technology.
Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:42 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions
Ah....no
Where do I start? There is a very large Church down the way from me which is famous in U.S. On paper they seem reasonable, not appearing to be a radical fundamentalist denomination. However the Pastor made headline news when it was discovered that he along with his staff supported a Dictatorship in Africa that openly advocated State-sanctioned Murder of Gays. The Pastor came-up with all sorts of creative justifications but in the end there was proof he along with his Political allies provided support, met in face-to-face meetings and even encouraged this type of Gestapo-like policy.
Yes the militant Islams are known to pitch radical beliefs. Are these fundamentalists any different than many of the radical fundamentalist "Christian" groups in the West? I don't think so. We even call these radical Right-Wing groups that advocate violence towards Gays or even Liberals the American Talibans. Make no mistake there is a huge contingent of these groups...I call them Cults...that are virtually the same as the Radical Muslim groups. How dare they even call themselves Christians...they don't deserve that honor. Or what about the Nuts that show-up at our own Military funerals with signs stating Soldiers deserve to die because we have Gays in our country? Make no mistake we have plenty of our own Fruit Loop pyschopath's in the West that masquerade as religious groups.
I personally can care less about a person's religious, political views or especially their Sexual beliefs. All these issues are Wedge topics used to indoctrinate people and justify political support or agendas of Hate. Actual both the Left and Right wings are obsessed over these issues. Nobody cares. Most people just want to be left alone and not have the Govt dictate what we have to believe or what we want to do as individuals.
Christian or other religions are nothing compared to the agro Muslims.
Its not a religion its a cult, if there was a God do you really think he'd tell one guy to try to subdue the whole world with fire and sword (same guy also happens to be a polygamous paedo).
Islam is hateful, aggressive, anti-semitic and homophobic, the worst of the other religions has nothing on it. Try a heated discussion with them, they will promise to behead you!
Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:02 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions
Very intresting DJ.
The Bible:
i) Leviticus 20:13: "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."
ii) Romans 1:24-32: "Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other.
Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. ”
Hm, would have to be a sorcerer to make something benign out of that bible text.
On the other hand, if one is a sorcerer one would face the bible god’s hate to:
Exodus 22:18 “Thou shalt not suffer a sorceress to live.”
Pitty the people who fallen victims to God and his Bible massages.
The victims makes a mighty pile, some 30 000 was burned for being witches alone..
The Bible God's gay victims are still beeing piled up ..
Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:56 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions
I find it odd that God wasn't aware of the shape and age of his creation until much later when it was discovered by Humans using science and technology.
US Brake
No offense, but I am hoping you are going to share some additional sources to back up the main elements of this quote. I would like to see them, if you have something. It just makes me wonder
If God did create the Earth, I am guessing God was very aware of its shape and age when it was created.
Do you have tangible evidence of the initial shape of the Earth when it was created? By that I mean pics, video, first hand accounts and testimony presumably by someone NOT FROM Earth. You know, something a little more concrete than a vague hypothisis.
You also presume HUMANS discovered the shape and age of Earth. If you meant "first discovered" then what proof do you have of that?
At what point did Humans begin to use science and technology. Just wondering?
Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:18 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions
"By the 9th century, many Muslim scholars took it for granted that the Earth was a sphere."
US Brake
Surah Naziat 79:30: Rashad Khalifah:
"He (Allah) made the earth egg-shaped."
Surah Naziat 79:30: Syed Vickar Ahamed
"And more, He has extended the earth (far and wide also in the shape of an egg)."
Surah Naziat 79:30: QXP - Shabbir Ahmed:
"And after that He made the earth shoot out from the Cosmic Nebula and made it spread out egg-shaped. ('Dahaha' entails all the meanings rendered (21:30), (41:11))."
Surah Naziat 79:30: Yahiya Emerick:
"He shaped the earth as an egg after that."
The Earth is not quite spherical, due to what is know as "rotational flattening." It's not egg-shaped, either, it's shaped more like a pumpkin. The radius of the Earth at the equator is 6,378 km; at the poles it is 6,356 km. Jupiter, which rotates once every 10 hours, is even much squashed than the Earth. Jupiter's equatorial radius is 70,850 km; it's polar radius is 66,550 km.
Richard A Gerber
So just exactly what kind of eggs where these guys referring to?
Stwa
i) Leviticus 20:13: "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."
ii) Romans 1:24-32: "Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other.
Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. ”
Hm, would have to be a sorcerer to make something benign out of that bible text.
On the other hand, if one is a sorcerer one would face the bible god’s hate to:
Exodus 22:18 “Thou shalt not suffer a sorceress to live.”
Pitty the people who fallen victims to God and his Bible massages.
The victims makes a mighty pile, some 30 000 was burned for being witches alone..
The Bible God's gay victims are still beeing piled up ..
decided to post again :)
John 8
1 but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.
2 At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.
But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”
11 “No one, sir,” she said.
“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”
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