I assumed (wrongfully) that when u linked to a side that talked about how thing attach and lined up in nature and crate bounds, etc... I sort of made the misstake to assume that you was aware of that, or rather that you had that in mind when I presented the problem. as I started the post by qouting that link....
My mistake. Totally. I should have been clearer.
So, the balls attach in the same way as atoms do to each others in nature.
Some can’t attach, other can. They then link up forming molecules. If one place such atoms in the “2D basket in the illustration”, and they can only attach as follows: gray-green-blue-red, then this attachment/bonding happens spontaneous like this:
As in 100% of the time.
So if you lift any ball out one of the basket, they are already attached: gray-green-blue-red.. You got a molecule in yer hand, when you picked up a ball..!!!
The black line is thus not a string as you thought, but represent the bound or attachment or the lining up or whatever that called in english.
I was unclear, that was my mistake. Sorry for that.
Heres a though, maybe God created this system... And alowed for all this to happen?
well chessmaster hasn't been in this thread since several pages ago, however you're still going on in full 'anti-multiculture' bs - mode.
As usual you are very consistant in making statements that are incorrect/wrong
Firstly, yes, chessmaster has not posted since page 7.
This does not mean that chessmaster is not reading this thread and therefore still able to rejoin the conversation, if he so chooses.
Are you still there chessmaster?
If you were astute enough to read back (doubtful), you would know that chessmaster made points about the generally peaceful nature of Islam and that the hardcore islamic extremists are a tiny minority et cetera.
In response, i affirmed chessmaster's view.
Those who accuse me of making the kind of attacks on Islam, that you (MF) and Stalky, are making on Christianity, are just faster with their keyboards than they are with their reading comprehension and may need remedial help.
An astute, or discerning, reader will notice that my criticisms are aimed at only a minority of Muslims who cause trouble.
, however you're still going on in full 'anti-multiculture' bs - mode.
In total contrast to your irrational rantings, i am not in "full 'anti-multiculture' bs - mode".
This is simply yet another of your many delusions, symptomatic of the continuous flow of BS that prevails in your mind
As an Australian, in a multiculturally friendly nation (unlike Finland), I am not only accepting of multiculturalism, but i also embrace it
So much so, that i married an asian woman How anti-multicultural is that?
My very own household is multicultural!
So who is talking B.S?..............., you are MF
This morning, i was grieved to hear of the recently arriving Hazara boat people not being allowed to be processed in Australia.
In a previous post (either you did not read it, or you deliberately deleted it from your selective memory), I made a point of expressing that the Hazara Muslims, from Afganistan, were very welcome here as asylum seeker refugees. Especially as the are genuinely a persecuted people and that they also assimilate better into Australia, than most, or nearly all other Muslim peoples.
MajorFrank, it is your slanderous BS that continuously misrepresents my position.
Your credibility just went down, yet another notch
So, let's see...you think it's okay for you to do it, because other people have done it?
WRONG
That is your own misconception, or, a crude Strawman argument.
The point which you have overlooked is that you berate ONLY ME, but, based on your complete silence, you appear to condone the numerous attacks on various religions, including Catholicism, by AT_Stalky and MajorFrank.
i.e.
The Vatican also helped in the running of concentration camps and in the escape of the Nazis at the end of the war.
So LoneRebel claims to be a Catholic who has no objection to people criticising Catholicism
Furthermore, LoneRebel is so terribly upset if AGS shows a disapproving attitude toward Islam, but at the same time, if AT_Stalky and MajorFrank show disapproving attitudes toward Islam, that is perfectly OK by LoneRebel (according to his silence).
LoneRebel , you claim to be a christian of the Catholic denomination. Why then do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. (Romans 14:10) Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers. (Galatians 6:10)
About Christians, Jesus said: Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. (Mat 7:20)
Not looking good LoneRebel
LoneRebel sounds more like an atheist siding with other religion-hating atheists ......
Or, a Muslim who hates Christians but does not mind atheists who reject his beliefs........
Or, maybe a Catholic who hates Protestants above all other beliefs, but who does not mind atheists rejecting his beliefs and villifying the Catholic Church
Now that actually does add up and make sense
(A) an atheist
(B) a Muslim
(C) some other kind of anti-christ-ian {a Pseudo-Catholic who is anti-Christian.}
There are many Pseudo Catholics who claim the title Catholic without having even a single Catholic or Christian characteristic in their lives.
It just that they come from a catholic background or family and they carry the title "Catholic" as a matter of tradition only.
The reason your statements really get me is that I'm Filipino. We Catholic Filipinos must be so thankful to the Spanish for colonizing us, Christianizing us, and civilizing us. Lord knows, if in some alternate history my distant animist ancestors hadn't been converted to Christianity,we would probably have been converted to Islam,
So are you thankfull for that, or are you resentful?
Its hard to tell clearly from your wording, i will just say: Mahal Dios ang Pilipinas
and we would now have you making your self-righteous proclamations on the evils of "Islamic nations" such as ours.?
(A) You can't have been reading all my posts, kasi, twice in this thread, i have made it abundantly clear that i have ZERO self-righteousness, i am a sinner who is saved only by God's grace (Maraming Salamat Dios Po)
{Isaiah 64:6; Philipians 3:9; Romans 3:22-23; Ephesians 2:8}
(B) Hindi ko proclaimo evils sa Pilipinas
I refer you now to your statements on Indonesia in one of your previous comments, where for no reason at all you had to mention that Indonesia is an Islamic nation.
There was good reason, you may figure it out eventually
Religion is one of the only differences. The fact that we were converted to Christianity (many unwillingly, I'm sure) by the Spaniards is the only thing keeping you from passing almighty judgment on us the way you did with Indonesia. How interesting.
So somehow you are taking this personally as a racist attack on Austonesians ?
How interesting
Almighty judgement, WOW! LoneRebel, you do have a passion for exagerating and overstating things?
Have you built any roads detouring around ant-hills lately?
Not to mention your signature. Seriously, this thread has become so important to you that it's now in your sig?
The sig is there to remind AT_Stalky that i am still waiting for him to give my question a straight answer in the same manner as i answered his question.
When he makes his choice clear (1,2,3,4, or 5), i will remove the sig.
Personally, i have had enough of Stalky's antics and will not answer any more of his questions until he makes his choice.
And yes, this thread is VERY important, especially when the fate of people's eternal souls is jeopardised by atheist propaganda.
Its importance, is of BIBLICAL proportions
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???????
And what, pray tell, are my views on aboriginals?
Guess you must be koori, because, in this matter, i am reading a moral superiority, between the lines, or are you just as evil as my ancestors?
But your comments are irrevelent as i have never been an immigrant, i was born here and am as Australian as the dirt beneath my feet. (remember even the Koori were immigrants 40,000 years ago if you believe the guestimates of science).
In the likely event that you will need help figuring out what's wrong with your statement, please ask. I will be glad to assist you.
Thankyou
Please enlighten me....
You may have misunderstood those statements which led you to wrong conclusions.........
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AT_Stalk and MF are only attacking Christianity because it is the largest and most influential religion in their resepctive countries.
If these 2 atheists lived in Indonesia, Iran, Afganistan, or Pakistan, i am prety sure their main target would be Islam.
Could have fooled me. You sure do act like you think you're better.
Well, i am troubled by that misperception.
In future, please take care not to be so easily foolable
Should i just let these atheists malign and villify Christianity unabatedly, should i let falsehoods go uncontested.
Look LoneRebel, i am fully prepared to admit that i am not the most virtuous ambasador for Christ here.
MF_Church and Davidssfx are much better men than i
When atheists launch their scathing attacks, i suffer a full blown attack of Romans 7!
The truth must be defended......
.....especially when people's eternal souls are at stake
But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, (1 Pet 3:15)
This is what I always see in arguments like this. Someone will say that they don't like how Christians think they're better than others. A Christian will pop in and say that no, we Christians don't think we're better than you. But many Christians do act like they're better than others. That's the whole point. Or if not they themselves being better, their religion is better. To other people it comes across as the same thing."
Quote:
we recognise our need for forgiveness, reconcilliation and sanctification with God's help.
And what about the people who haven't recognized their "need for forgiveness, reconciliation and sanctification with God's help"?.
They need to hear the Gospel so that they may be saved
For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile--the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? "(Rom 10:12-14)
Even if you say you are a sinner like everyone else, you're still "better" than others because you recognize your "need for forgiveness with God's help" and they don't.
So it is YOU who judge me as "better"!
Not i!
It was God's Holy Spirit who gets the credit for convicting me of my need for forgiveness
All the Glory is God's
The fact is, that i am greatly indebted to God and give thanks in a number of ways.
This includes making a stand for the Truth, even if it means that i become the target of a barrage of slanderous attacks, maligning strawman arguments, peurile mockery, et cetera
As a Christian we are to expect to be hated by the unGodly and suffer persecution
All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.(Mat 10:22; Mark 13:13)
In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted,(2 Tim 3:12)
Blessed are you when men hate you, when they exclude you and insult you and reject your name as evil, because of the Son of Man.(Luke 6:22)
Dear friends, do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed. If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. (1 Pet 4:12-14)
Hey, i can live with that..., this life is only a short time.
The eternity of negativity free life will more than outweigh all the suffering in the world
I assumed (wrongfully) that when u linked to a side that talked about how thing attach and lined up in nature and crate bounds, etc... I sort of made the misstake to assume that you was aware of that, or rather that you had that in mind when I presented the problem. as I started the post by qouting that link....
My mistake. Totally. I should have been clearer.
So, the balls attach in the same way as atoms do to each others in nature.
Some can’t attach, other can. They then link up forming molecules. If one place such atoms in the “2D basket in the illustration”, and they can only attach as follows: gray-green-blue-red, then this attachment/bonding happens spontaneous like this:
As in 100% of the time.
So if you lift any ball out one of the basket, they are already attached: gray-green-blue-red.. You got a molecule in yer hand, when you picked up a ball..!!!
The black line is thus not a string as you thought, but represent the bound or attachment or the lining up or whatever that called in english.
I was unclear, that was my mistake. Sorry for that.
Heres a though, maybe God created this system... And alowed for all this to happen?
/Stalk
Hi Stalky,
Thanks for taking the time to explain and the friendliness of attitude in your words ... much appreciated
Could have fooled me. You sure do act like you think you're better.
Well, i am troubled by that misperception.
Should i just let these atheists malign and villify Christianity unabatedly, should i let falsehoods go uncontested.
Look LoneRebel, i am fully prepared to admit that i am not the most virtuous ambasador for Christ here.
MF_Church and Davidssfx are much better men than i
When atheists launch their scathing attacks, i suffer a full blown attack of Romans 7!
The truth must be defended......
.....especially when people's eternal souls are at stake
But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, (1 Pet 3:15)
This is what I always see in arguments like this. Someone will say that they don't like how Christians think they're better than others. A Christian will pop in and say that no, we Christians don't think we're better than you. But many Christians do act like they're better than others. That's the whole point. Or if not they themselves being better, their religion is better. To other people it comes across as the same thing."
Quote:
we recognise our need for forgiveness, reconcilliation and sanctification with God's help.
And what about the people who haven't recognized their "need for forgiveness, reconciliation and sanctification with God's help"?.
They need to hear the Gospel so that they may be saved
For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile--the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? "(Rom 10:12-14)
Even if you say you are a sinner like everyone else, you're still "better" than others because you recognize your "need for forgiveness with God's help" and they don't.
So it is YOU who judge me as "better"!
Not i!
It was God's Holy Spirit who gets the credit for convicting me of my need for forgiveness
All the Glory is God's
CHEERS
AGS
.
Hi AGS,
I think most people can see where you are coming from by what you have posted, but due to the religious/political nature of these topics and the stage (forum) where it is carried out ... the opportunity for misinterpretation either by mistake or purposely is greatly increased.
Thanks though for taking the time to post here ... I appreciate and have learned from some of the things you've said.
Also, I'll add some text from the Bible which may be helpful for all of us in one way or another :)
Titus 3
Saved in Order to Do Good
Remind the people to be subject to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready to do whatever is good, 2 to slander no one, to be peaceable and considerate, and always to be gentle toward everyone.
3 At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life. 8 This is a trustworthy saying. And I want you to stress these things, so that those who have trusted in God may be careful to devote themselves to doing what is good. These things are excellent and profitable for everyone.
9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. 10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them. 11 You may be sure that such people are warped and sinful; they are self-condemned.
I have to stop posting here now.
I apologize for, at times, being unkind in attitude
One thing this topic has helped me remember is ... that we are all brothers.
So, in an indirect way ... thanks MajorFrank for starting this topic.
well chessmaster hasn't been in this thread since several pages ago, however you're still going on in full 'anti-multiculture' bs - mode.
As usual you are very consistant in making statements that are incorrect/wrong
Firstly, yes, chessmaster has not posted since page 6 or 7.
This does not mean that chessmaster is not reading this thread and therefore is still able to rejoin the conversation, if he so chooses.
Are you still there chessmaster?
If you were astute enough to read back (doubtful), you would know that chessmaster made points about the generally peaceful nature of Islam and that the hardcore islamic extremists are a tiny minority et cetera.
In response, i affirmed chessmaster's view.
Those who accuse me of making the kind of attacks on Islam, that you (MF) and Stalky, are making on Christianity, are just faster with their keyboards than they are with their reading comprehension and may need remedial help.
A pertinent, or astute reader will notice that my criticisms are aimed at only a minority of Muslims who cause trouble.
, however you're still going on in full 'anti-multiculture' bs - mode.
In total contrast to your rabid rantings, i am not in "full 'anti-multiculture' bs - mode".
This is simply yet another of your delusions that continuingly seem to fill your mind with BS
As an Australian, in a multicultural friendly nation (unlike Finland), I am not only accepting of multiculturalism, but i embrace it
So much so, that i married an asian woman How anti-multicultural is that?
My very own home is multicultural!
So who is talking B.S..............., you are MF
This morning, i was grieved to hear of the recently arriving Hazara boat people not being allowed to be processed in Australia.
In a previous post (either you did not read it, or you deliberately deleted it from your selective memory), I made a point of expressing that the Hazara Muslims, from Afganistan, were very welcome here as asylum seeker refugees. Especially as the are genuinely a persecuted people and that they also assimilate better into Australia, than most, or nearly all other Muslim peoples.
MajorFrank, it is your BS that continuingly misrepresents my position.
Your credibility just went down yet another notch
CHEERS
AGS
.
Then again you believe in fairytales, what would you know about credibility.
Also about the Christian church going around the world, there has been a lot of 'spreading of the word at the point of the sword'. Basically forcing natives in various lands to either adopt Christianity or die. So therefore I'm not at all surprised that, for example, the Filipinos would feel that a certain brand of Christianity doesn't really reflect their unique culture and their own heritage.
You can't take a religion very far from it's 'birth place' before it starts to 'lose power'. I learned this when playing Medieval 2 - Total War.
MajorFrank, please keep up the infantile mockery and peurile insults, because the more you lower your self in this way, the more i am blessed and the better my life becomes
Blessed are you when men hate you, when they exclude you and insult you and reject your name as evil, because of the Son of Man.(Luke 6:22)
But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed. If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. (1 Pet 4:13-14)
Recently, i have noticed significant improvements in my life in the real world since you and your atheists mates have been slandering me.
Do you actually believe in God and recognise Jesus as the son of God who died to pay the penalty of the sin of humanity?
or
Are you a Pseudo-Catholic?
I'm pretty sure I'm Catholic, as I put that on my Facebook account, and on every single government form I fill out. It's true that I lean towards a more universalist interpretation of religion (which, ironically enough, is what "catholic" means). For lack of a better word, I prefer to believe in truth being present in all religions, not simply in one, as you seem to think.
Actually, I believe Pope Benedict XVI said something to the effect of all religions containing "truth" (with a small t), but only Christianity (only Catholicism?) containing Truth (with a big T). This is not an entirely universalist position, but better than one could have expected, considering the Pope's record, and certainly much better than many other Christians.
Quote:
Do you expect me then to display pro-Islamic tendencies, or do you expect me to display an apathetic attitude toward Islam?
Is the concept of respecting other religions, without necessarily agreeing with them, one that you understand?
Quote:
That is your own misconception, or, a crude Strawman argument.
The point which you have overlooked is that you berate ONLY ME, but, based on your complete silence, you appear to condone the numerous attacks on various religions, including Catholicism, by AT_Stalky and MajorFrank.[/quote]
i.e.
The Vatican also helped in the running of concentration camps and in the escape of the Nazis at the end of the war.
I believe I have already mentioned that I have not read through the earlier posts. You must have missed it when I typed that?
In any event, those "attacks" are probably true, I'm sad to say. I'm not aware of the Vatican helping in the running of concentration camps (though I'm quite sure MajorFrank has sources), but what I do know is that the Pope during the war, Pius XII, has been accused by some scholars of, at the very least, not doing enough to speak out against the Nazis and protect Jews during the war. In his defense, other scholars argue that he did as much as he could, and that he also had to consider the possibility of the Nazis retaliating against Catholics or against Vatican City itself.
The point is that there is a debate. You seem to want there to be no debate, and for everyone to just believe that Christianity has been all goodness and light throughout history.
As for helping Nazis and fascists escape at the end of the war, this is well known. Try reading up on the "ratlines." You might not like what you find, though.
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So LoneRebel claims to be a Catholic who has no objection to people criticising Catholicism
This is what I don't understand. According to you, for someone to be a good Catholic (or Baptist, for that matter), then, he should brook no criticism at all of his religion? Even if it's true? Is that what you're saying, AGS? This is a mindset that I find completely impossible to understand, but it is one shared by all too many people nowadays...
Quote:
Furthermore, LoneRebel is so terribly upset if AGS shows a disapproving attitude toward Islam, but at the same time, if AT_Stalky and MajorFrank show disapproving attitudes toward Islam, that is perfectly OK by LoneRebel (according to his silence).
Again, I cannot comment as I haven't read through the whole thread.
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LoneRebel , you claim to be a christian of the Catholic denomination. Why then do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. (Romans 14:10) Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers. (Galatians 6:10)
About Christians, Jesus said: Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. (Mat 7:20)
Not looking good LoneRebel
AGS, the only person I see here judging others is you, unfortunately. "Judge not, lest you be judged..."
Quote:
LoneRebel sounds more like an atheist siding with other religion-hating atheists ......
Or, a Muslim who hates Christians but does not mind atheists who reject his beliefs........
Or, maybe a Catholic who hates Protestants above all other beliefs, but who does not mind atheists rejecting his beliefs and villifying the Catholic Church
Do you know what this reminds me of? The whole "Obama is a Muslim" nonsense. So many Americans - good, Christian Americans, mind you - apparently still believe, to this day, that he is a Muslim. When a person states his religion, maybe you shouldn't persist in inventing alternative theories. Because I daresay that I know what my religion is better than you do.
The reason your statements really get me is that I'm Filipino. We Catholic Filipinos must be so thankful to the Spanish for colonizing us, Christianizing us, and civilizing us. Lord knows, if in some alternate history my distant animist ancestors hadn't been converted to Christianity,we would probably have been converted to Islam,
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So are you thankfull for that, or are you resentful?
Do you think I should be thankful or resentful? Let me ask you first.
Quote:
So somehow you are taking this personally as a racist attack on Austonesians ?
The fact is that religion and race are intertwined. Most of Christianity's early development was in the West (although Jesus himself was not European ), so it is seen as a Western religion. Islam started in the east and most of its adherents are nonwhites, so it is seen as an Eastern religion. Deny it all you want, but it's true. In the minds of whites, at least, race and religion are intertwined.
As an example, take a look at all these right-wing anti-immigration pundits in Europe. Looking at what they say and write, they seem to use "Muslim" and "Arab" interchangeably. In their minds, there is no difference. They're all just brown or black people with strange beliefs and strange languages to be kept out of the white homeland at all costs.
Some of these pundits are a little smarter. They will deny that this is about race. They'll say they're not against Arabs or Africans, it's only Islam they dislike (as if that makes it any better). And yet they speak of continued immigration "swamping" Europe, and the "dilution" of the white race.
It's really funny because obviously Caucasians are going to be outnumbered when compared to the rest of humanity. No ethnicity on Earth is numerous enough to outnumber every other ethnicity put together.
Quote:
The sig is there to remind AT_Stalky that i am still waiting for him to give my question a straight answer in the same manner as i answered his question.
When he makes his choice clear (1,2,3,4, or 5), i will remove the sig.
Personally, i have had enough of Stalky's antics and will not answer any more of his questions until he makes his choice.
Perhaps he is not answering because it's irrelevant? Has that occurred to you?
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And yes, this thread is VERY important, especially when the fate of people's eternal souls is jeopardised by atheist propaganda.
Its importance, is of BIBLICAL proportions
Maybe you should stop thinking that anyone's souls are being threatened by this discussion. And don't make yourself responsible for saving Stalky's and MajorFrank's souls, if that's what you're thinking. That might help.
Quote:
Thankyou
Please enlighten me....
You may have misunderstood those statements which led you to wrong conclusions.........
As much as I would like to believe that I'm misunderstanding you, I doubt it.
First, you came to the conclusion that Blackstump must be koori simply because...what? Because of his remark about 7th Generation White Australians and not throwing stones?
Then your statement implying that koori must have a feeling of moral superiority towards whites. Why would they have that? Because of the centuries of mistreatment they received at the hands of whites?
In the end, the fact we can't get away from is that you may not be an "immigrant", but your ancestors were. And your ancestors mistreated the Aborigines and took their land away from them. This is a fact, but no one wants to talk about it, like the elephant in the closet. Oh well, it's not like we can have all whites in Australia go back to Europe, anyway. No one's asking for whites today to atone for the sins of their ancestors, but at least feel sorry about it.
Even if the Aborigines were immigrants themselves, it doesn't matter, as they were the first.
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Maybe you have only read my posts and not theirs........, it would seem so....
If they have "attacked" Islam as well, then shouldn't that make you feel better? It seems like nothing will satisfy people these days...
Quote:
The thread began with Christians being specifically singled out for attention from the very 1st post
As I understand it, MF started this thread because he had banned on other forums by Christians. Not Muslims or whoever. Also Christianity is the largest religion in terms of adherents. Hence Christians being singled out.
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Yet another irrational, atheist like piece of mamignant slander, i'm sure your christian hating atheist friends will be so proud of you...
Hey, I'm only telling it as I see it.
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Your Christian brotherly love for a fellow believer is most heartwarming LoneRebel.....
Why, thank you. Oh, was that sarcasm? You seem to believe that to show Christian love means to never disagree with your fellow believers. (provided of course that their opinions are in line with Christian dogma. If they are not, disagreeing with them is A-OK!)
Last edited by LoneRebel on Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:41 am; edited 1 time in total
I'm pretty sure I'm Catholic, as I put that on my Facebook account, and on every single government form I fill out. It's true that I lean towards a more universalist interpretation of religion (which, ironically enough, is what "catholic" means).
You appear uncertain as the phrase "pretty sure" implies an element of doubt
In my case, i am 100% certain that i am a sinner, who is a christian, only by the Grace of God, through the faith given me, so that i participate in the redemption, bought by Jesus Christ's vicarious sacrifice, which paid the penalty for the sins of humanity
For lack of a better word, I prefer to believe in truth being present in all religions, not simply in one, as you seem to think.
Things are not always as they seem.
There is probably some truth within every religion.
There is some, or even a lot of truth within every political ideology.
Even within Fascism, Nazism, Marxism, Communism not to mention Demcracy, Theocracy Monarchy and Anarchy, there are many truths. They all contain elements of truth.
Not only do they all contain truth, but because they also all contain the human element, they all also contain elements of fallibility and evil.
This is also the biggest problem with Christendom........, it contains people
If churches didn't have people in them,,,,, then churches would be unblemished
Here is an analogy to consider
We'll use 100% pure H2O (tubig) to represent 100% TRUTH, a metaphore
Now, water is a primary element essential for life.
Nobody can live without it, it keeps you alive
Now back to anology
Water can have impurities in it, that wont kill you if you drink it.
Likewise, some religions (particurlaler various Christian denominations) may have false doctrines mixed in with their Truth, that wont disqualify you from eternal salvation
Lemonade is also clear like water and tastes good.
Some churches have a little bit of sweet mistruth (lemonade) mixed with the Truth.
Some people choose a church because their doctrines suit their personal tatstes.
They dont lose Salvation, but they may not be as spiritually healthy as others.
Vodka is also clear like water and makes you feel good.
Some churches have a little bit of feelgood mistruth (vodka) mixed in with the Truth.
Some people choose a church because their doctrines make them feel good.
They dont lose Salvation, but they may not be as spiritually healthy as others.
Then, lets us imagine a glass of water that is 99% pure H2O, but has 1% (a few drops) of cyanide or some other highly toxic poison.
You drink that and your dead.
This describes some Christian cult religions which deny essential truths required to lead to eternal salvation, thus their teaching ultimately will lead people to eternal spiritual death
So, it can be a very small bit of unTruth that can be eternally fatal!
No single denomination has the perfect mix of Theology, Doctirne and Practices.
No single Church is perfect, certainly not even mine
That will do
Now i will just reaffirm your point, there are elements of truth in all religions
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Do you expect me then to display pro-Islamic tendencies, or do you expect me to display an apathetic attitude toward Islam?
Is the concept of respecting other religions, without necessarily agreeing with them, one that you understand?
Thats a very good point LoneRebel, and i hope that i can employ that principle more effectively in the future.
If you had followed this thread, religiously, you would have noted that i, respectfully, held my toungue (keyboard) when it came to expressing my points of disagreement with Catholic theology, doctrines and practices.
You seem to want there to be no debate, and for everyone to just believe that Christianity has been all goodness and light throughout history.
Things are not always as they seem.
Christianity should have been all goodness and light throughout history and Christianity would have been just that, if humanity's inherant sinfullness did not get in the way.
All the bad stuff that atheists like to blame on Christianity, is caused by the inherant naughtyness of humanity.
So it is humanity that these atheist realy hate.
Now because atheists are humans, in order to save them from hating themselves, they must project their hate away, so atheists use christianity as a scapegoat
So athesist use the unchristian behaviour of some misguided Christians and LOTS of pseudo-Christians to blame evil human behaviour on Christianity.
If it does not reflect the Christians values, then the behaviour, is unchristian.
This is not saying that genuine christians are never guilty of unchristian behaviour...........
God knows i am
A Christian, wether he be Catholic, or Protestant, is a work in progress under a program called sanctification
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So LoneRebel claims to be a Catholic who has no objection to people criticising Catholicism
This is what I don't understand. According to you, for someone to be a good Catholic (or Baptist, for that matter), then, he should brook no criticism at all of his religion? Even if it's true? Is that what you're saying, AGS?
This is a mindset that I find completely impossible to understand, but it is one shared by all too many people nowadays...
It makes sense now that i know you did not read MF's numerous attacks on Catholicism.
What i could not undertsand was, if you had read MF's rants against Catholicism, why a Catholic would attack somebody for criticising Islam and not attack somebody else who criticised Catholicism.
That is all i meant...
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LoneRebel , you claim to be a christian of the Catholic denomination. Why then do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. (Romans 14:10) Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers. (Galatians 6:10)
About Christians, Jesus said: Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. (Mat 7:20)
We Catholic Filipinos must be so thankful to the Spanish for colonizing us, Christianizing us, and civilizing us. Lord knows, if in some alternate history my distant animist ancestors hadn't been converted to Christianity,we would probably have been converted to Islam,
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So are you thankfull for that, or are you resentful?
Do you think I should be thankful or resentful? Let me ask you first.
OK, Hmmm, what do you think i would say?
Just kidding...
You should just say:
Maraming maraming Salamat Po Dios, kasi, Mahal ng Dios ang Pilipinas
Before i go on, i want to say that one of the reasons i love the Philippines is because it is a Christian country and has not degenerated into a secular society........, yet
There is religious freedom of expression in the Philippines............., even for christians
.........insert picture of jeepney displaying a large, loud christian slogan here............
The Philippines is the last country in the world to hold out against divorce.
Here in Australia, the Secular institution called "political correctness" forbids people from some forms of public expressions of Christian faith because it may offend the muslim minority
(Politcal Correctness = Minority Rule)
But Muslims wearing a Burka (that hides all but the eyes) can walk into Petrol station shops to pay, but it is illegal for a motorcyclist to go in with his helmet on.
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So somehow you are taking this personally as a racist attack on Austonesians ?
The fact is that religion and race are intertwined. ............... Deny it all you want, but it's true. In the minds of whites, at least, race and religion are intertwined.
Please don't generalise
Not all of us whities are that narrow minded.
As an example, take a look at all these right-wing anti-immigration pundits in Europe. Looking at what they say and write, they seem to use "Muslim" and "Arab" interchangeably. In their minds, there is no difference. They're all just brown or black people with strange beliefs and strange languages to be kept out of the white homeland at all costs.
Some of these pundits are a little smarter. They will deny that this is about race. They'll say they're not against Arabs or Africans, it's only Islam they dislike (as if that makes it any better). And yet they speak of continued immigration "swamping" Europe, and the "dilution" of the white race.
It's really funny because obviously Caucasians are going to be outnumbered when compared to the rest of humanity. No ethnicity on Earth is numerous enough to outnumber every other ethnicity put together..
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The sig is there to remind AT_Stalky that i am still waiting for him to give my question a straight answer in the same manner as i answered his question.
When he makes his choice clear (1,2,3,4, or 5), i will remove the sig.
Personally, i have had enough of Stalky's antics and will not answer any more of his questions until he makes his choice.
Perhaps he is not answering because it's irrelevant? Has that occurred to you?
Firstly, it is relevant because Stalky tried to malign my character and attack my reputation (typical tactics of somebody losing a debate), when, regarding Australian society, i wrote:
Tell, me AT_Stalky, do you WANT, or NEED, islamic influence in your society?
This question is NOT Rhetorical!!!!!!
Either you answer it, honestly, or you should never post in this thread again.
Of course he declined to answer and expose his hypocracy
Instead Stalk replied thus:
AGS,
Can we call Martin Luther A) the father of the Protestant Church and the über-Führer of Nazy idiolegy, or is he better described as B) an anti-Semite?.
2) Be honest and say: "No, i dont want, or need, islamic influence on Swedish society."
In which case you expose your hypocracy for berating me for writing it
3) Never post in thread again
Which, in itself, by default, would be an admission of your hypocracy and prove that you dont have the integrity to answer my question as i answered yours
5) Apologise for your hypocracy and your barrage of attacks on my faith and myself
This choice would be the only option that would show that you have any integrity at all.
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And yes, this thread is VERY important, especially when the fate of people's eternal souls is jeopardised by atheist propaganda.
Its importance, is of BIBLICAL proportions
Maybe you should stop thinking that anyone's souls are being threatened by this discussion. And don't make yourself responsible for saving Stalky's and MajorFrank's souls, if that's what you're thinking. That might help.
Its out of love that i am compelled to challenge mistruth for the sake of the lost.
Hey, it is a well known fact those those who resist Christianity the hardest (like Stalky & MF), often become Christianity's greatest exponents (preachers)
.
Saul, who became Paul, is the best known example.
So i think they are worth the effort, even without considering the readers who are not active in this thread.
They will continue to be upheld in prayer
Besides, i have not much else to do, except modding (oops, now i am in trouble)
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Thankyou
Please enlighten me....
You may have misunderstood those statements which led you to wrong conclusions.........
First, you came to the conclusion that Blackstump must be koori simply because...what? Because of his remark about 7th Generation White Australians and not throwing stones?.
First, you came to the conclusion that i concluded that Blackstump must be koori.
No, i only asked if he was, because his tone of writing seemed to imply a "moral superiority, so i simply asked a question in order to increase knowledge and understanding, that is all
Even if the Aborigines were immigrants themselves, it doesn't matter, as they were the first.
To take an atheistic moral perspective, the native fauna that were here before the Koori, would have a moral superiority over the Koori, because they were here before the koori.
Thus making the Koori "illegal immigrants" because, the animals never invited them, nor did they give them permission, let alone an aslyum visa.
Or, as you so elegantly/eloquently put it, the indigenous fauna must have a feeling of moral superiority towards Koori, because of the centuries of mistreatment they received at the hands of the Koori, who, just for their own selfish benfit, killed andate them
At this point i must point out that the British settlers never ate the Koori!
This makes them morally superior invaders over the Koori as we did not eat the previous land owners like they did.
In the end, the fact we can't get away from is that you may not be an "immigrant", but your ancestors were. And your ancestors mistreated the Aborigines and took their land away from them.
In the end, the fact we can't get away from is that; the Koori may not be "immigrants", but their ancestors were.and their ancestors mistreated the indigenous landowners s and took their land away from them and ate them.
This is a fact, but no one wants to talk about it, like the elephant in the closet. Oh well, it's not like we can have all whites in Australia go back to Europe, anyway. ... No one's asking for whites today to atone for the sins of their ancestors, but at least feel sorry about it.....
A former Prime Minister has made a formal apology on behalf of the Australian nation to the Koori for all our past sins against them.
The Koori presently have rights, privaledges and benefits the are greater than that of any other Australian citizen (so racial discrimination actually works in their favour)
If all non-Koori had to leave because the Koori were here 1st, as a spokeperson for the indigenous fauna, i think the Koori should go to
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Maybe you have only read my posts and not theirs........, it would seem so....
If they have "attacked" Islam as well, then shouldn't that make you feel better? It seems like nothing will satisfy people these days...
The Atheists have not made all out attacks on islam in the same way they have with Christianity (neither have i for that matter). They have, however, demonstrated disrespect and disdain for all religions without exception (oh, except for religiously atheist people like themselves, not realising that thier belief system is also "faith based")
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The thread began with Christians being specifically singled out for attention from the very 1st post
As I understand it, MF started this thread because he had banned on other forums by Christians. Not Muslims or whoever. Also Christianity is the largest religion in terms of adherents. Hence Christians being singled out.
No, it was not the Christians who banned hum, it was the secular forum moderators who banned him.
This is all now hypothetical, just like evolution theory, but unlike evolution, is based on empirical evidence.
MajorFrank claims that Christians always throw the 1st insult.
Though MF apparently does not consider that comparing people's belief in God, to believing in fairy tales, as insulting.
So he fires the 1st shot, but denies that it is a shot
So MF shows total disrespect for people's passionate beliefs and insults them ruthlessly and as soon they bite back, MF goes into all out abuse mode and when the secular forum moderators tell him off for his vitriol, he cries:
"WAAAAHHHH!!! BUT THEY STARTED IT!!!"
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Yet another irrational, atheist like piece of mamignant slander, i'm sure your christian hating atheist friends will be so proud of you...
You seem to believe that to show Christian love means to never disagree with your fellow believers. (provided of course that their opinions are in line with Christian dogma. If they are not, disagreeing with them is A-OK!)
Again....
Things are not always as they seem
Christian love is.............
....surely you have your own bible......
its in there...
here are a few pointers:
Mark 12:30f; Matthew 5; Luke 10:30-37; John 14:15-21; Romans 12; 1Corinthians 13; Gal 5:22f; Coloss 312-17; 1James 1:27; Jude 22f;
Paalam kuya
Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. (Phil 1:2)
May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. (Rom 15:13)
May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Th 5:23)
The point which you [LoneRebel] have overlooked is that you berate ONLY ME, but, based on your complete silence, you appear to condone the numerous attacks on various religions, including Catholicism, by AT_Stalky and MajorFrank.
What i could not undertsand was, if you [LoneRebel] had read MF's rants against Catholicism, why a Catholic would attack somebody for criticising Islam and not attack somebody else who criticised Catholicism.
Even all of the worst atrocities of the Catholic church in 2000 years, combined, pales in comparisons to the crimes against humanity of of just one of the modern atheist monsters: [Stalin and Hitler]
Stalin and Nazi Germany under Hitler, each on their own, were responsible for more atrocities, deaths etc than 2000 years of the corrupt Catholic Church
Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions
AGS,
I just thought of a pretty good analogy for religion. In my view, non-religiousness is the default state of the mind. Religion is like a computer virus that may in some cases infect the mind. Once infected the system needs to be cleaned with anti-virus (read science, psychology, Darwin etc.) or in the worst cases formatted.
Better keep the virus protection in shape.
Btw, I strongly doubt that I will flip into a religioso. Like I've mentioned in this thread I was religious as a kid, I even paid something called the church tax, a certain percentage of the earnings. I began to make ok money and ended up throwing the equivalent of hundreds of euros at the church, I started thinking that this isn't right. Then I started thinking and came to the conclusion that the church is one big sham and have never had to change my view of any and all religions.
When I speak with people who have left some very oppressive religious sects behind, I think that it is often the most religious who become the most ardent opponents of religion.
Cheers,
MF
PS. Stwa, do you have a problem with gay people? What about women priests? What about abortion? Etc.
Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:00 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions
Stwa,
oh now I get it, you are one of these "anti-multiculturalist" Christians, like AGS, I get it now. Exactly what Jesus would do, right? You managed to 'obfuscate' your stance for awhile there but I see that you are now letting your 'colours fly', as they say.
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