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ArmeeGruppeSud

Rep: 9.5
votes: 7


PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:30 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

G'day AT_Stalky

To begin with, i shall apologise unreservedly for accussing you of making "silly replies"
There was probably some misunderstanding of you on my part as i believe that English is not your primary language.
Therefore i have retracted/removed the the comments that may have offended you.  Cool

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
Not sure what you got, i didn't bother checking the videos because i have already seen enough of the Westborro church to know they are full of BS

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
What i will say is, the Bible can be misinterpreted badly, the Westborro church is an example of that.


AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
Are you sure about that AGS?
].                       Yes


AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
Do You believing in the holy bible AGS?
.                       Yes
 

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
Well the vids clearly shows that WB Baptist hates gay people, and they do that because god hates gay ppl, and it says so in the bible..
The vids clearly show that the Westburro church say that God hates everybody except them:
Westburro Church wrote:
GOD HATES FAGS

GOD HATES AMERICA

GOD HATES AUSTRALIA

GOD HATES EUROPE

GOD HATES ASIA

GOD HATES AFRICA
Actualyy, i think that God is not too fond of the Westburro people because they misrepresent him so badly.


AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
I also found this:

The falsification of the bible, it seems in some newer bible text, some or even all of gods cruelness has been washed out, wonder why? Here it seems that god conduct collective cruel punishment to a whole town, just becoause some dont listen to a stranger and dont take him in to his house..? :

This is Luke 6:11 in different versions, the first one is the literary translation, the others are the newer versions:

Luke 6:11 literary translation:
“and as many as may not receive you, nor hear you, going out thence, shake off the dust that is under your feet for a testimony to them; verily I say to you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom or Gomorrah in a day of judgment than for that city.' “

Luke 6:11 later versions:
“In some places the people will not take you in. They will not listen to what you say. When you leave such a town, shake the dust off your feet. That will be a warning to them. I tell you the truth. On the day when people are judged, the people in that town will be punished harder than the people in the country of Sodom and Gomorrah. “

Luke 6:11 later versions:
“And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.”

Luke 6:11 later versions:
“If you come to a town where people do not welcome you or will not listen to you, leave it and shake the dust off your feet. That will be a warning to them!”

Luke 6:11 later versions:
“And wherever people will not welcome you or listen to what you have to say, leave them and shake the dust off your feet as a protest against them!”

Luke 6:11 later versions:
“And whatsoever place shall not receive you nor hear you, departing thence, shake off the dust which is under your feet for a testimony to them”

Luke 6:11 later versions:
“And whatsoever place shall not receive you, and they hear you not, as ye go forth thence, shake off the dust that is under your feet for a testimony unto them. “

Luke 6:11 later versions::
“If a place doesn’t welcome you or listen to you, as you leave, shake the dust off your feet as a witness against them.”
AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
Cant help it AGS, it seems that one can’t trust the “good” Christian people who does the bible translations, it seems they indulge in falsification of gods holy bible..
Again it occurs that incorrect, erroneous conclusions result from poor and inadequate research.
Your 1st error was the verse you trying to quote is actually MARK 6:11,.. not LUKE 6:11

The second mistake you made is in relation to the fact that the original New Testament manuscripts were written in ancient Greek.
Now modern English translations of the New Testament are made from 2 seprate ancient Greek manuscripts.
Now in one of those ancient Greek manuscripts, that we shall call "docA," the 2nd part of Mark 6:11 was not included (thats the part mentioning Sodom & Gomorah).

Now the 1st 3 English translations that you quoted were translated from the other ancient Greek manuscript, docB. The following 5 English translations that you quoted were translated from docA.

The minor diferences that occur amongst your quotes 1-3 and amongst quotes 4-8 are negligable, they are simply paraphrases. Thus the essential meanings of quotes 1-3 are exactly ther same and the essential meanings of quotes 4-8 are exactly ther same.

Therefore your theory of alleged falsification and whitewashing of scripture over time is completely unfounded, as the main difference occured nearly 2000 years ago.

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
Is it possible a problem to be a literal believer of the bible, I mean, the question will always be: literal believer of which bible version...
Well, i dont think there are many/any 100% "literal" believers of the Bible.
This is because large quantities of the scripture within the Bible are alegorical in nature, which uses many metaphores.
For example, many of the parables of Jesus Christ are alegorical and the book of revelations is virtually all alegororical.
Essentially, there is little difference in meaning in the many translations of the Bible.
The biggest essential difference in Bibles is that the Catholic bible includes several other books (called the Apocrypha) that are not included the the bibles used by Protestant churches.
Also, cults such as the Jehovah Witnesses do have falsified versions of the bible to suit their blasphemous teachings.

But regardless what translation is used, it is God's Holy Spirit that gives the believer an understanding of the truth, no matter what version he/she is reading.

Personally, when i am doing bible study, i use a computer program that show the same verse in 6 different bible versions simultaneously, just so i can get a broader view of the scripture in question.
The program also includes Greek and Hebrew concordances so i can view the original manuscripts.

So to give you a brief summarical answer to your query:

Its not a problem mate  Very Happy

cheers

AGS

_____


@ AT_Stalky, do you WANT, or NEED, islamic influence in your society?

This question is NOT Rhetorical!

STILL WAITING FOR YOUR ANSWER
.


Last edited by ArmeeGruppeSud on Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:56 am; edited 4 times in total
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ArmeeGruppeSud

Rep: 9.5
votes: 7


PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:33 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

G'day MF_Church

welcome to the fray

if you dont wish wave your spiritual sword about in here, some prayer support would be more than welcome  Very Happy

GBU brother

cheers

AGS

_____


@ AT_Stalky, do you WANT, or NEED, islamic influence in your society?

This question is NOT Rhetorical!

STILL WAITING FOR YOUR ANSWER
.
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AT_Stalky

Rep: 27.4
votes: 10


PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:47 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

Misstake. Delete


Last edited by AT_Stalky on Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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AT_Stalky

Rep: 27.4
votes: 10


PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:50 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

Misstake. Delete


Last edited by AT_Stalky on Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:08 pm; edited 7 times in total
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AT_Stalky

Rep: 27.4
votes: 10


PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:21 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

Misstake. Delete
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MajorFrank

Rep: 41.8
votes: 6


PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:48 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

AGS,

are you ok with the force-baptizing of the Australian aboriginals?
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ArmeeGruppeSud

Rep: 9.5
votes: 7


PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:40 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
AGS,

are you ok with the force-baptizing of the Australian aboriginals?



              To put it simply................... no



Also, i disagree with infant baptism.


For more clarification, i shall quote myself:
ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
As a member of the Baptist Church, we believe in "Believer's Baptism" which means a person can only be Baptised by their own choice.

If you had read my post on page 2 of this thread, you would have never bothered to ask the question


cheers

AGS

_____


@ AT_Stalky, do you WANT, or NEED, islamic influence in your society?

This question is NOT Rhetorical!

STILL WAITING FOR YOUR ANSWER
.
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kawasaky

Rep: 22.2
votes: 5


PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:51 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

So much talibanism around here...
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MajorFrank

Rep: 41.8
votes: 6


PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:23 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

kawasaky wrote (View Post):
So much talibanism around here...


Hi Kawasaky,

well I've come to the realisation that if I converse about these issues with a religious person, doesn't really matter what religion they are, a verbal altercation ensues. Possibly even a physical fight if it's an IRL conversation. I don't like fights, I'm actually a pretty peaceful guy. So I solve this by not conversing with religious people. I don't feel like I'm losing out much.

Then again I don't like to feel like I'm evading or running away from situations because I try to avoid a confrontation with religious people.
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MF_Church

Rep: 26


PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:08 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think it goes like this ?  "Watch & pray" < quote from Jesus.  (or the other way around??)  Smile  Which seems to make More sense.  ( Pray & watch).

I would like to thank all three for their input recently in here.

1/ To MajorFrank in a major way to be very frank.  Without his 'Post' of this thread my watchful ~ prayer for just such a thing would still be in the watchful/prayer state only.  TU.

2/  Glad to be here, gathering the frayed parts of 'our' thread.  Wink ArmeeGSud.  Double thanks to u too! for the deletes!

3/  TalibanINGS.  Hmmmmmm Smile   I think we can all agree.  Better there than here.  (Arm'S Length is always a Good thing.)

Sooo keep up! the good work in here.
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US_Brake

Rep: 24.2
votes: 22


PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:48 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote


Link




Close Combat's most infamous SOB


Last edited by US_Brake on Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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kawasaky

Rep: 22.2
votes: 5


PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:50 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
kawasaky wrote (View Post):
So much talibanism around here...


Hi Kawasaky,

well I've come to the realisation that if I converse about these issues with a religious person, doesn't really matter what religion they are, a verbal altercation ensues. Possibly even a physical fight if it's an IRL conversation. I don't like fights, I'm actually a pretty peaceful guy. So I solve this by not conversing with religious people. I don't feel like I'm losing out much.

Then again I don't like to feel like I'm evading or running away from situations because I try to avoid a confrontation with religious people.


HEHEHE!

As an (per Abrahamic faiths followers beliefs) atheist in the 88% Catholic country I completely understand you.
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LoneRebel

Rep: 9.8


PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:02 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

Gee, AGS sure gets fired up about religious discussions.  Very Happy

I'm Catholic, but I don't feel the need to get into arguments about my faith. This is because "faith", as defined by Merriam-Webster, is "firm belief in something for which there is no proof." So since matters of faith (i.e. the existence of God) cannot be proved by any means, what in the world is the point of arguing over it? Exactly. Nothing. Waste of time. If God exists, he will continue existing regardless of what atheists say about him, right?  Rolling Eyes

I'm not an atheist, but I'm not going to pick fights with atheists either. Sadly, I am forced to agree with them on many points; the self-righteousness and arrogance of many of my fellow adherents is, quite frankly, repulsive. And it's also true that religion has been a source of division just as much as it has been a source of unity. And it's also true that people have killed each other because of religion. (i.e. he follows a different religion from me, so I want to kill him.) You will notice that the faithful killing others because of religion, has throughout history been far more common than atheists killing others because of their atheism.  Laughing
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kawasaky

Rep: 22.2
votes: 5


PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:27 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

LoneRebel wrote (View Post):

So since matters of faith (i.e. the existence of God) cannot be proved by any means, what in the world is the point of arguing over it? Exactly. Nothing. Waste of time. If God exists, he will continue existing regardless of what atheists say about him, right?  Rolling Eyes


Yep, there's no point in arguing about non-existence of god, and it is irrelevant if it exists or not. What IS relevant is the use of religion (often confused with "faith" - deliberately) in daily politics. Believe what you will, I couldn't care less, but sheer number of believers that makes them a majority doesn't give them the right to push their beliefs upon those who believe not.
It is purely a tyranny of a majority in the very private field of life, that is no one's business but one's own. Europeans were smart enough to introduce secularism after the Thirty years war, one of the worst in history of Europe. One atheist and/or one person of different faith in the body of a nation is a reason enough for secularism, or, it would be a tyranny towards that one person, and if we claim to be democratic, than we don't want to by tyrannts.

About the other half of the claim - I don't agree that there's anything we cannot grasp by means of knowledge, provided by all means, but principally science. It is just a matter of time. Just look at the modern physiycs. Physics, being a natural philosophy through observation and measurement, is nowdays more metaphysics then anything else - and it goes back to mamma - philosophy.
Origins of universe, paralell universes, measurement problem in quantum mechanics etc. dwell more in the realm of philosophy than the realm of natural science - or, it is so if you look at "natural", "humanistic" and "social" science(s) as differentiated. And that they are not. All are just different ASPECTS of the same ONE thing. That one thing may be a god as portrayed by the all three Abrahamic religions, although from the pool of the human knowledge - it is very unlikely.

As one hypothesis says - we all create our universe through our thoughts and actions and through conscience observation. Therefore, we are all gos, or the god - whatever. There is no and cannot be an entity separate from the universe, and since all came to being from one tiny dot, small enough to be labeled as one, then all is one and one is all - individuality is only a master illusion.
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MajorFrank

Rep: 41.8
votes: 6


PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:57 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

To chime in on this, personally I'm not that interested in the psychology of religion and faith. People can believe what they want, just don't take my money.  

Just today I was reading the paper and there was a opinion piece by the freethinkers. They mentioned the sum that the Christian church gets here in Finland through something called the organisation tax.

The organisation tax is something that different types of organisations have to pay to the church. People can separate from the church and thus they don't have to pay the church tax anymore, the church tax is a yearly sum taken from your earnings. However, organisations (private companies etc.) can't separate from the church and thus are always forced to pay this tax.

This involves me because I'm in the process of starting my own small company in the near future. Even a small company has to pay the church tax.

So one can say that even if the church likes to parade itself as an opponent of socialism, they sure aren't no friend of capitalism either.
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kawasaky

Rep: 22.2
votes: 5


PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

You're lucky.
My fucking, retarded country signed the treaty with Vatican by which the RCC in Croatia recieves some 50 mil. eur per year directly from the budget. So we all have to pay it, regardless of being a member or not. Can you comprehend that!!? I cannot...
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MF_Church

Rep: 26


PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:04 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

Smile @ US Brake... i have to see that video afterwards... i just read all of the above first...

And with that in mind,  Gentlemen!  If I could only let you see what God gave me... inside.  I'm NOT trying to tell you about the different Organizations man has made, INCLUDING religious ones.  

No.  It's so simple.  I asked.  God gave.  And He will give to anyone who asks.  Simple Simon. (Wink Peter).

If (folks) only knew.  And what is it that He gives?  Well, He is GOD. So it's BIG.  Yup.  Eternal life for STARTERS.  Then heaven and pure joy forever and that means we get to KNOW Him personally.  I know.  Sounds Too Good!

That's the kind of GOD He is.  

Gospel means Good News.  < What an understatement.

Soooo b4 i stop.  Let me say, The things that were said above were really well written and good.  But, like the bible was written to let us know (enlighten us) we Were cut off from God's Presence.  Hence, our lack of experiencing Him and preceiving Him.  Ok.  That was what i gleaned from reading each post above.  And a little known saying sums it up very well,  The blind leading the ... cough*, blind.  :(

That is what God wants to Give back!  Empirical KNOW Him again... experience.  FellowShip.  Adoption Back into His presence.  What a gift!

So forget what you think a church or Religion wants you to give it or take from you.  Blind leading the blind.  Unless what they say is backed up in the bible... it's not from God. Period.  

Keep looking Up! gents! & God Bless You with His ~knowledge of eternal Life.  (It's HIM)  via the Holy Spirit.

:D  Enjoy!
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ArmeeGruppeSud

Rep: 9.5
votes: 7


PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:03 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

kawasaky wrote (View Post):
So much talibanism around here...
Hmmm,...........  talibanism?

Have not noticed any signs of Sharia Law here at CCS  Confused

Could you pleae explain?

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
well I've come to the realisation that if I converse about these issues with a religious person, doesn't really matter what religion they are, a verbal altercation ensues
Really?

We have been conversing on these issues and we have not entered into a "verbal altercation"..........., no name calling,....nothing.  Confused

If you desire to prove this theory, you will have to start writing some insults   Wink  Very Happy  


LoneRebel wrote (View Post):
Gee, AGS sure gets fired up about religious discussions.  Very Happy
Fired up?  Shocked

If i was any cooler, they would call me the Ice Man  Cool  

LoneRebel wrote (View Post):
God exists, he will continue existing regardless of what atheists say about him, right?
Definately!  Very Happy
But if God decides not to believe in atheists, they WILL dissappear  Very Happy

LoneRebel wrote (View Post):
I'm Catholic, but I don't feel the need to get into arguments about my faith ..... ..... ..... ..... I'm not going to pick fights with atheists either.
Neither do i pick fights, i merely defend my faith and bretheren.

LoneRebel wrote (View Post):
Sadly, I am forced to agree with them on many points; the self-righteousness and arrogance of many of my fellow adherents is, quite frankly, repulsive.
Agreed!
The selfrighteousness of many so called (cough) christians is a blight on the faith.
Personally, i have no righteousness of my own, only the righteousness of Christ credited to me through Grace.

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
People can believe what they want, just don't take my money.  
..... They mentioned the sum that the Christian church gets here in Finland through something called the organisation tax. .....The organisation tax is something that different types of organisations have to pay to the church.
kawasaky wrote (View Post):
My ..... country signed the treaty with Vatican by which the RCC in Croatia recieves some 50 mil. eur per year directly from the budget. So we all have to pay it, regardless of being a member or not.
Well, i must sympathise and agree with both of you, i think that your governments should not give your money to the church.

In my country and many others, which has a majority of people who believe in creation by God, we pay taxes and some of our taxes are spent paying teachers to teach our children the lie of Godless evolution, because of our secular government.  Mad grrrr @ that

MF_Church wrote (View Post):
Gospel means Good News.  < What an understatement.
Keep looking Up! gents! & God Bless You with His ~knowledge of eternal Life.
Well said brother

Please hear this my fellow CC addicts, i don't want your money!

Nor do i want insult you or argue with you  Rolling Eyes

What i would like, is for you to enjoy the same gift of God that MF_church, i and many others have been blessed with.  Smile

This gift can only be grasped by faith.

This is not about pride, its not about "i'm right and you are wrong".

Its about wanting to share the Love of God with you all.

May there be thousands of CCers in heaven  Cool

May God bless you all with the faith that leads to eternal salvation  Very Happy

Cheers  Very Happy

AGS

________


@ AT_Stalky, do you WANT, or NEED, islamic influence in your society?

This question is NOT Rhetorical!

STILL WAITING FOR YOUR ANSWER
.
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kawasaky

Rep: 22.2
votes: 5


PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:39 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

ArmeeGruppeSud wrote (View Post):
kawasaky wrote (View Post):
So much talibanism around here...
Hmmm,...........  talibanism?

Have not noticed any signs of Sharia Law here at CCS  Confused

Could you pleae explain?

Talib[an] not as a student of wahabism, but as a state of mind.
In that context the one whose glass is fully filled and nothing more can be poured in.
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MF_Church

Rep: 26


PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

What would it look like... Our position before a Perfect Being of all the Virtues we could think of???

:(

Maybe Life Reversals, daily, little and large ones would then have a logic to them.

Here's a Comment titled True Brokeness.  Or brother Ken?  sorry! :P

But first a verse from the Good Book...

"All these things My Hand has made, and so all these things came to be, declares the Lord.  But this is the one to Whom I will look: he who is humble (me* like God)! and contrite (me like God)!! in spirit and trembles at my ~word.  ISAIAH 66:2.

Brokeness is not a feeling or an emotion.  Rather, it requires a choice, an act of the will.  Further, this choice is not primarily a one-time experience, through there may be profound and life changing spiritual turning points in our lives.  'True brokeness' is an ongoing, constant way of life.  True brokeness is a lifestyle- a moment-by-moment lifestyle of agreeing with God about the 'true' condition of my heart and life, not as everyone else thinks it is but as He knows it to be.

Brokeness is the shattering of my self-will--the absolute surrender of my will to the will of God.  It is saying, "Yes, Lord"--no resistance, no chafing, no stubborness--simply submitting myself to His direction and will in my life.

Contrite is one word that is used in the Old Testament to speak of brokeness.  That word suggest something that is crushed into small particles or ground into powder, as a rock is pulverized.  What is it that God wants to pulverize in us?  It isn't our spirit He wants to break, nor is it our essential personhood.  He wants to break our self-will.

Brokeness is the stripping of self-reliance and independence from God.  The broken person has no confidence in his own righteousness or his own works, but he is cast in total depenence upon the 'grace' of God working in and through him/her.

Brokeness is the softening of the soil of my heart--it is the breaking up of any CLODS of resistance that could keep the seed frm penetrating and taking root.  I believe one of the reasons many Pastors faithfully preach the Word week after week and see little 'fruit' in the lives of their 'listeners' is that the soil in many of 'OuR' hearts has become so hard and fallow that the seed (God's life) Cannot penetrate.  Believers with broken, contrite hearts are receptive and responsive to the WORD.

As wax or Clay must be soft and pliable in order to be molded by the artist's hands, so the broken, contrite heart is easily molded by the Hand of God and does not harden itself against the circumstances God chooses to mold it.

*me ~ oy!  and  amen ~~  to that...  :*)
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