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CC_CO

Rep: 32.1
votes: 3


PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:01 pm Post subject: Killing tanks in an h2h operation in CC5 GJS TRSM 982 Reply with quote

I'm playing the Germans in this operation. They have close to excellent defensive assets and resources. They don't have as many resources as the allies though, but when used properly, defensive assets can be lethal against most attackers.

It has to be said, that in GJS TRSM 982, defending is on most maps, really easy, thus attacking is really difficult. In this operation I defend around 90% of the battle time, thus my losses are that much lower than my almost constantly attacking opponent. So, if you can attack continually and successfully, in an operation like Exploring the gap, in GJS TRSM 982, you are probably a strong player.

In the following, a short peak into the operational history:

The first Operational Debrief-image is taken after the 4th and last battle of Lingevres, where my BG from the 352. suffered heavy infantry losses to the 22 BDE of the 7th Armoured BG. The 352. lost both of its two guns, of which the PAK 40 never got to take out any enemy tank. In fact, the PAK was flanked by a Cromwell, and that was it. Boom! no more PAK. The infantry gun in the BG, however, did manage to take out 1 or 2 enemy tanks, at extreme close range, plus 1 or 2 enemy infantry teams too. After that little surprise shelling, my opponent manoeuvred yet another tank into position and BAM, that was the end of my second and last gun in that German BG.

Although im not sure, I think my opponent lost around 8-10 tanks on Lingevres, in 4 battles. I lost 2 guns and 2 Marders, and a lot of infantry, including all my Panzerscreck teams.

Although I did not take any screens from the four battles on Lingevres, I do have an friendly-area screen where my last stand plan was drawn. In the battle, my opponent attacked the north VL first and then faced that shell surprise, however, eventually all my forces up here was lost. My infantry teams in the centre was split up, trying to use two infantry teams and my Marder in a suicide mission, trying to get the now lost VL back. It didn't work. My little strike force was literally shot to pieces, however, it did manage to damage the UK teams a bit.

After that, my opponent attacked my centre from the other side of the main road, while his depleted force from the VL to Hottot, moved down. This part of the battle was a hunt on my infantry teams, of which I lost additionally three before the battle ended, close to my last VL. I decided to disband my BG after this, and so the fight was fro Hottot now.



1st Operational Debrief


2nd Operational Debrief


3rd Operational Debrief


4th Operational Debrief


So far I have inserted 6 panzers, of which 2 was Marders (they were both knocked out) and 4 Jagdpanzer IV (of which 3 so far has been knocked out). The last image is not showing the last operational result, where my third Jagdpanzer sadly was knocked out. It had to move without security towards a decisive VL that my opponent had taken.

One of my jagdpanzers.



Man, the terrain in this mod is such a super defensive booster. Amazing to think that real soldiers advanced through that type of terrain. Super defensive terrain.

From our third battle of Hottot, a map I decided to leave after the fourth battle, where I took some heavy beating.




Two screens from the now 10 day long battle of attrition at Tilly Sur Seules

It is in this battle, on this map, I have lost my 3 Jagdpanzers and a lot of infantry teams, guns and vehicles. The battle is a deadlocked situation. Move a unit onto a street, or out of a hedge, and it will get killed. I have tried to literally shoot my way through several buildings, using my 37 Flaks, but eventually I lost them all in the process, although they certainly did perform very well, while in use. My opponents infantry got used to run, run and run out of buildings when the 37 opened fire on a building. A shame I have so few of them.

Anyhow, this battle is slowly but steadily decimating the Lehr BG.  





The strategic situation June the 15th

Hottot is lost, as is Lingevres, but Panzer Lehr is still holding on to Tilly Sur Seulles.



Opinion on the Jagdpanzer IV

One thing I like about the Jagdpanzer, is that when used in distances above, not sure, 2-300 meters, hits taken most often doesn't penetrate its frontal amour. In fact, so far, at those distances, I haven't experienced any hit penetrating its frontal amour, even from the Firefly, however, several times its main gun has been knocked out by a Firefly. Below these distances and the Jagdpanzer seems just as vulnerable as anything else, when being hit frontally that is.

For the record, I loose just as many tanks and infantry, my self, when attacking in this type of terrain, if not loosing more.


Last edited by CC_CO on Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:57 pm; edited 14 times in total
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MF_Church

Rep: 26


PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:10 am Post subject: Re: Killing tanks in an h2h operation in CC5 GJS TRSM 982 Reply with quote

Tks! for that!

Enjoyed the JagdIV report!  Glad for the realism factor!
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:35 am Post subject: Re: Killing tanks in an h2h operation in CC5 GJS TRSM 982 Reply with quote

Basically,

JPIV is indeed invulnerable to 75mm AP shells at ranges further than 200m. Although 17pdr and 6pdr are able to perforate at all CC distances with different chances of success Smile.

Pretty same for StuG.

Same for PzIV frontal hull armor, but turret armor is weak so it could be penetrated by all the allied guns, including 37mm. What is good for PzIV is that chance to hit its turret is much lower than chance to its hit hull Smile.

Panther's frontal is invulnerable to 75mm at all the distances, but 6pdr and 17pdr are able to penetrate frontal turret at all CC distances, while 17pdr can also penetrate frontal hull at about 300m.

Tiger's frontal is invulnerable to 75mm at all the distances, but 6pdr and 17pdr are able to penetrate frontal hull at all CC distances, while 17pdr can also penetrate frontal turret at about 300m.

Hope that helps Wink.
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CC_CO

Rep: 32.1
votes: 3


PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:18 pm Post subject: Re: Killing tanks in an h2h operation in CC5 GJS TRSM 982 Reply with quote

Glad you like it MF_Church.

Thanks for the data Dima. So basically I shouldn't engage below 200 meters, unless I'm confident I will win the duel?

I have, a few times, on the small map Hottot, engaged below 100 meters, however, in those surprise-situation, my Jagdpanzer has every time been covered by a hedge, thus able to fall back after the first 1 or 2 rounds fired. I'm glad that the repair crews in CC5 are so well working, cause at least 4 times has an enemy tank knocked out the main gun on one of my Jagdpanzers, or injured the whole crew, but always in situations where I have been able to withdraw the panzer out of harms way. Long live that frontal armour.
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CC_CO

Rep: 32.1
votes: 3


PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:54 pm Post subject: Re: Killing tanks in an h2h operation in CC5 GJS TRSM 982 Reply with quote

The battle of attrition in Tilly Sur Seulles continue. My opponent has gained some vital ground here, close to the decisive VL for my BG.



5th Operational Debrief


In the 5th Operational Debrief you can also see that my opponent now has attacked Villers-Bocage. A map he cannot be allowed to capture.

Below the result from the first battle of Villers-Bocage. My opponent offered truce around 2/3 into the battle. A short time after I agreed, since I had no real forces in the left side of the map.



Tilly Sur Seulles. I decide to go to the offensive, and for once I'm getting somewhere. 3 Buildings captured, and getting close to his last exit VL. Also, i retook the area he had captured the last time at my decisive VL.



6th Operational Debrief
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CC_CO

Rep: 32.1
votes: 3


PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: Killing tanks in an h2h operation in CC5 GJS TRSM 982 Reply with quote

The battle of attrition continue at Tilly Sur Seulles, however, my opponent has for the first time captured and hold the decisive exit VL to Juvigny, and thereby cut my BG off. Simultaneously, I have captured the VLs he entered on some 20+ battles ago. My Lehr BG here at Tilly Sur Seulles has been decimated in this attrition battle.



The Allied 70/49th BG at Tilly Sur Seulles on the 17th of June, being the BG I have fought with my 901 Lehr, for every single turn, since the 6th of June. This 70/49 has taken significant losses throughout this battle of attrition.



At Tilly Sur Seules, my 901. Lehr still have a couple surviving units left, from the first battle the 6th of June; a Jagdpanzer and a mortargruppe. A few other units have also survived for quite some time, however, not as far back as the 6th of June. In the following a list of the survivors from Tilly Sur Seules.

The Jagdpanzer Fehrmann, still alive at Tilly Sur Seules, has killed some more infantry, since last posted image. In the meantime 3 other Jagdpanzers didn't make it.



The fourth Jagdpanzer having fought along with Fehrmanns Jagdpanzer in some 4-5 battles, is shown here. The crew got wounded after a forced frontal fight with a Wolverine, at a distance below 100 meters. In the duel, Runstedts Jagdpanzer took 2 frontal hits, that didn't penetrate but wounded the crew. The Wolverine was knocked out.



Wührers MG42 team, still alive. This mg team has for the most time covered a specific part of a road on the map. And in some battles nothing has happened at his specific part of the road, however, in other battles plenty has happened. At least 4 enemy rifle teams has been defeated by team Wührers precise and consistent rate of fire.



Same with Thalers Feuretrupp. This truppe has been deployed several places along the line, throughout many battles. Mostly as a reserve, moving up where other newly deployed teams has been overrun by the allied forces.



Gerkes Mortar team, has just as Fehrmanns Jagdpanzer been in fight since the first battle of Tilly Sur Seulles.



While battle of attrition has been decimating both my Panzer Lehr BG and the allied BG at Tilly Sur Seulles, my opponent attacked Villes-Bocage one single time, using his strong 22/7 Armoured. However, some 10 minutes into the battle my opponent asked for truce, which I accepted since I didn't had any real forces available on the left side of the map. I had set up most of my forces elsewhere, since I thought he wouldn't advance into the left side from start. He used a lot of tanks, however, only two of them entered my field of AT fire, before we made truce.

After this first battle of Villers Bocage, my opponent withdrew the 22/7 again, into the Hottot map, where it stayed for a while, until it attacked Juvigny.



One of my Jagdpanzers from the Lehr BG defending Villers-Bocage, also being the BG having defended Hottot for 4 battles, against the strong 22/7.



The other Jagdpanzer from the same BG. A crewmember in this Jagdpanzer got wounded after a duel above 250 meters with a Firefly from the 22/7, that was fortunately knocked out.



My so far best panzerzestörer truppe from the same BG as above.



Juvigny is some turns after attacked by the 22/7. This attack happens in the same turn I loose the exit VL to Juvigny on the Tilly Sur Seulles map. The result from our first battle on Juvigny can be seen here.



After the 22/7th pulled out of Villers-Bocage, the 13177 Allied BG entered the map. Now, after some heavy defensive fightings, at the 17th, the map-situation is as follows:




The strategic situation the 17th

On the 17th of June, all of Panzer Lehrs 3 BGs are committed in fierce defensive fightings. The 901th at Tilly Sur Seulles has been cut off.




7th Operational debrief June the 17th

Enemy tank losses are rising. My opponent cannot be far from reinforcing at least two of his four battle-groups.  

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CC_CO

Rep: 32.1
votes: 3


PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:02 pm Post subject: Re: Killing tanks in an h2h operation in CC5 GJS TRSM 982 Reply with quote

The Strategic map for the operation.

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CC_CO

Rep: 32.1
votes: 3


PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:11 pm Post subject: Re: Killing tanks in an h2h operation in CC5 GJS TRSM 982 Reply with quote

Fehrmann gets killed.



My Lehr BG had been cut off, however, the only vehicle that could move was Fehrmanns - and what do I do then? Place his tank at the hedge closest to the supposed enemy position. Stupid - first time my Lehr BG has been cut off, and I place my best panzer up front from start. Haven't done that before, will not do it again.



8th Operational Debrief June the 18th

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CC_CO

Rep: 32.1
votes: 3


PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:54 pm Post subject: Re: Killing tanks in an h2h operation in CC5 GJS TRSM 982 Reply with quote

Due to some BG bugs, we will now have to replay from the start of the 18th of June again. Otherwise the game will be unfair to both sides.  

This means my opponent will get 10 tanks, 3 guns, and plenty of infantry back in his ranks, as well as I will get 3 tanks,2 guns and 1 vehicle back, plus for both sides, all the infantry we lost during the day of the 18th.

AAR wise, we will replay from the turn after the Operational debrief June the 17th, looking like this:



This replay is frustrating for both sides, since both of us have made progress during the battles of the 18th, where my opponent made progress on the Villers-Bocage map (taking the church VL and the whole left side of the map with all its VLs) and I on the Juvigny map (Capturing even more ground, slowly, closing me in to the only VL he has on this map). However, on the Tilly Sur Seulles-map, the gains and losses in terrain has been like in World War I, as usual, measured in few meters only. No big changes here, except for all the troops we have lost. I have recaptured the VL to Juvigny, but I doubt I could hold it.

So, its frustrating to replay and to loose gained ground, however, on the other hand, plenty of units lost are now, not lost.  

If we had decided not to replay June the 18th, the operational development would now look like this.

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CC_CO

Rep: 32.1
votes: 3


PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:44 am Post subject: Re: Killing tanks in an h2h operation in CC5 GJS TRSM 982 Reply with quote

Just for the record we stopped playing the operation, pretty short after this. Operational results was a Minor Allied Victory, although some would perhaps argue a Pyrrhic victory.

Good operation, good battles, and a very stubborn and dedicated attacker I played against. The Lehr Division is one of the best in the true realism sub-mod, in my opinion. Thus actually being able to push it back, as my opponent most certainly has, would in a Grand Campaign have had severe consequences on the German side. Cause the German player (me in this case) would eventually have been forced to counter-attack right into all those lurking allied at-guns.

The PanzerScreck teams in Lehr was in this operation a major factor, however, the Panzers was by far the most important factor, since they many times, simply from being identified by my opponent, forced him to seriously reconsider his path of advance, however, those Screcks did manage to out out many allied tanks.

The combination of Screcks, Guns, Panzers, Mgs and mortars was a deadly cocktail.
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