[Mana]

Thank you legion, I came across that thread but never read it in detail. Someone also notified me on this subject on the matrix games forums where I posted several questions related to the map making tool for Pitf.

After reading your thread about the size of the soldiers I started calculating the pitf scales and the ones I created.
Probably for some esthetic reason the developers have chosen to have multiple scales this means one or another object is always unbalanced.
Scale is ofcourse relative, for example it can be dynamic (a road is never one size neither is a tree) So I don't blame them for making a clear decission.

When it comes to designing a map or any other graphic elements I like things that make a logic sense, for example when one meter is represented ingame it should be a rule for all elements. I have put this to practice in an example (see attachment)

For the elements I took the 12 pixels per meter from the standard soldier, no other scales. This means that a 4800 x 4800 pixels map will represent 400 x 400 meters, this size is where most common close combat took place (25 to 200 meters) and tank combat 200 to 1000 meters (most long distant tank combat could never be represented ingame but luckily it rarely took place)
Back to the elements which I calculated from meters to pixels. Ofourse some elements are dynamic which I gave the plus minus sign as some trees might be bigger than the other. The 12 pixels a meter scale makes tanks 20% larger and soldiers now actually fit inside a tank realistically.

There are drawbacks to both the Pitf scales and the presented scale, I beleive the choice remains esthetically but I could be wrong so that's why I'm curious what other players think.

[tigercub]

the scale is perfect!

love that tiger pic

[DAK_Legion]

Mana;)

You have an IMPORTANT PM!

[Stwa]

Hi Mana,

I like your idea of trying to make everything the same scale.

One thing I just recently started to think about was movement on the larger maps. In the case you mentioned, 400 meters sounds good to me for mainly infantry fights with tanks in close support to them.

However, when the larger soldiers move on the larger maps (4800 pixels), on my system, they seem to move noticably slower than smaller soldiers, etc. So, if you do your idea (which I like) of 400 meter map at 4800 pixels, I am hoping the speeds of soldiers and vehicles can be adjusted accordingly.

Plus, I am not sure how the range indicator in any current game is modified so it can show the 12 pixels per meter scale.

And finally as the visual scale is increased the detail looks outstanding (i.e. your tanks above) but at such a scale there will be plenty of situations where you cannot view shooters and targets at the same time. (i.e. the target is futher away than your monitors number of pixels)

[Mana]

Hi stwa,

Good that you mention those things as they affect gameplay tremendously. I'm not holding on to one decission yet because I keep scaling things untill they seem to be more balanced; that means the map graphics compared to soldiers and vehicles. After that has been done I'll release an alpha version for test players (your welcome to help out)

The changes to the scales are not that much larger (about 5%) so do not worry about not able to see firefights. I've done some test myself and hardly see any difference from the old. The maps can be at maximum 7800 x 7800 I've read, so thats about 650 x 650 meters.

But still I'm not drawing any conclusions untill some players have done some tests themselves.



PS: The update for the current week has been posponed to next week and is a little bit of a surprise

[papa_whisky]

The game has an intrinsic scale that is associated with the engine i.e. how distance is measured on the maps that is directly related to the data of weapons, speed etc. The graphic scales are largely cosmetic although do play a role when graphics relate to movement properties. If you want to be totally consistent your starting point should be the engines intrinsic scale and altering the graphical scale to that but noting that pathing may become an issue if you are not careful with map design.

[Mana]

Hi guys,

Since there are some issues with the forums I moved to the matrix games forums.

[Mana]

Hi guys, here's another try to get the new update on these forums

[MG422]

Looks Great.  Takes modders to take close combat back to Eastern Europe.

[platoon_michael]

You've done some very impressive work so far.

[Mana]

Hi Guys,

Currently I'm working on the new close combat (Epsom) together with Cathartes.

That means the Kursk mod is currently idle. But that doesn't mean the Kursk mod is not going to be. Since we are reinventing quite allot of features in the upcoming game I'll probably base the mod on this new version.

Kind regards,
Conrad (mana)

[DAK_Legion]

A new close combat?

please more details mens for this community!!

[Mana]

Ofcourse.. The past few days Matrixgames has announced some of their upcoming projects at Historicon. Both Cathartes and I are probably developing the last traditional close combat version to be released (based on operation Epsom) Currently we're working at least every day on this project and we are very fortunate to be supported by Matrixgames.

Compared to the past releases we're doing our best to get the highest quality close combat version so far.



My approach out here is to be as transparent as possible but I have my obligations.

[Dima]

Good luck, guys!

[squadleader_id]

Great news to see you and Cathartes on board for the new (and last) 2D CC release, Mana!
I hope you continue with Kursk 1943 soon after your work with the Matrix game is complete!

Good luck!

[Von Manstein]

Fantastic! Only if the new game recover the old H2H system vía IP for multiplayer.

PitF, at the end, is a failed game. The MP conecction works very bad...No one playd the game in MP.

[dj]

So is this mod still on the back-burner for PitF...pending but not dead?

PitF is on sale for $20 USD.  Just wondering if it's worth it.  No mods yet are available.  Multi-Player does not seem to work properly...which means single player against the dreaded AI.  Not sure if AI gameplay is any good with PitF either.

[Schmal_Turm]

What is the status of this mod?

I was really looking forward to this one.

[Pete]

My guess is that it is dead. Conrad ("mana" in this thread) is a professional graphics artist and has to make a living too and has been working on the TBF. But who am I to speak for him? Better to contact him directly.

[dj]

Wow brought back from the dead.  I liked the scale of maps it looks more like scale in CC2 or CC3, more realistic looking.  But I don't like the larger map, takes forever to move and especially against AI.  If map size can be made smaller with same scale, it would be perfect imo.  

Not much for East Front out there for LSA/TLD/PoF/CtG...hope this mod can get back to life.