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Do incapacitations count as a soldier's kills?



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  Terrain Challenge: Terrain Challenge #60 (Solved by Heimdude)
Posted on Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:55 am by webmaster
Terrain Challenge Submitted by Lestayo, hint WW2!

"Terrain Challenge #60 (Solved by Heimdude)" | Login/Create an Account | 14 comments | Search Discussion
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Re: Terrain Challenge #60 (Score: 1)
by diggin.robat on Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:12 pm
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.greatwargames.com/

Re: Terrain Challenge #60 (Score: 1)
by Lestayo on Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:32 pm
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Re: Terrain Challenge #60 (Score: 1)
by Manoi on Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:17 am
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Re: Terrain Challenge #60 (Score: 1)
by Nacrox on Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:45 am
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Oosterbeek, or something related to British in Market Garden

Re: Terrain Challenge #60 (Score: 1)
by bexx76 on Tue May 01, 2012 2:14 am
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seems normandy, british sector, but really hard to find the two villages, is the picture oriented to nord?

Re: Terrain Challenge #60 (Score: 1)
by breid556 on Tue May 01, 2012 3:48 am
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Is it Britain? Seems kinda vague-just WW2

Re: Terrain Challenge #60 (Score: 1)
by Buck_Compton on Tue May 01, 2012 3:08 pm
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I do not believe this to be Normandy after having had a look. this photo lacks the quality to be taken in that region. So I tend to look somewhere else.

I'm not sure but it does look like France. Maybe something of the may 1940 invasion?

Cheers Buck

Re: Terrain Challenge #60 (Score: 1)
by Heimdude on Tue May 01, 2012 11:42 pm
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Got it!

Battle of Hatten-Rittershoffen during Operation Norwind:

Germans committed the 21st Panzer and the 25th Panzer Grenadier Divisions to the attack with a breakthrough to Hagenau. On 9 January, German armor was able to penetrate the center of the VI Corps sector. This caused Brooks, the Corps commander, to commit his final reserve force, the 14th Armored, in an effort to stop the German XXXIX Panzer Corps advance. Ordered to take up positions in the vicinity of Hatten and Rittershoffen, the 14th assumed command and control of units from the 242nd Infantry Regiment and the 2nd and 3rd Battalions of the 315th Infantry Regiment. With heavy fighting in and around the towns, success was measured in how many buildings were controlled by each side as the Americans controlled the western half of the villages and the Germans the eastern half. On 15 January, the Germans strengthed the forces in both villages with elements of the 20th Parachute Regiment from the 7th Parachute Division, and the 104th Infantry Regiment from the 47th Volksgrenadier Division. As the fighting raged, the 14th Armored found itself increasingly on the defensive. The resupply of the division was becoming very difficult due to the constant reorganizing of forces, the evacuation of the wounded and the shrinking perimeter. But the divisions' 11 day stand at Hatten and Rittershoffen allowed the VI Corps and Seventh Army to withdraw to prepared defensive positions. On 21 January, after the rest of Seventh Army had withdrawn to the south bank of the Moder River, the 14th and its supporting units withdrew from Hatten and Rittershoffen and moved south to join the rest of the army.

Following the battle, the division's G-4 (staff officer) reported to the commanding officer that the division was still short of 62 medium tanks despite having received over 60 replacements during the month of January. Even more astounding was the 136th Ordnance Battalion's maintenance report for the month in which it listed approximately 150 tanks that had been knocked out in combat, repaired and returned to the division's tank battalions. An example of this is seen in the operational reports of the 47th and 48th Tank Battalions. At the height of the fighting the 47th reported that it had a total of 17 operational tanks out of an authorized strength of 50, all were committed to holding its portion of the line. The 48th Tank Battalion report for the same period included the comment that its tank companies were now of approximately squad strength. Lieutenant-General Jacob L. Devers, commanding general, 6th Army Group later commented that the Battle of Hatten-Rittershoffen "was one of the greatest defensive battles of the war." The 14th Armored Division was nominated for four Presidential Unit Citations for its actions at Hatten-Rittershofen. Of these, two were awarded. Col. Hans von Luck, who commanded the 21st Panzer Division at Hatten-Rittershoffen wrote in his memoirs "Panzer Commander" that the battle ".... was one of the hardest and most costly battles that had ever raged on the western front." These are strong, telling words from a professional German panzer officer who had fought with Rommel's famed Afrika Korps in North Africa, served two tours of duty on the Eastern Front, and led the only armored counter-attack to be attempted against the Allied beachhead in Normandy. A veteran officer who served on the staff of Army Group G during the battle wrote after the war that the American defense of the town against overwhelming odds was "heroic."

Note that the some of the Maginot line fortifications are located in these two towns and were used by the allies during this battle. The Germans broke through using flamethrowers.

The "Musée de l'abri Hatten" is located in this picture.

Re: Terrain Challenge #60 (Score: 1)
by Heimdude on Wed May 02, 2012 12:55 am
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A bit more:

Suddenly, with the commitment of the 21st Panzer and 25th Panzer Grenadier Divisions in the north, the entire American defensive effort appeared to be in grave danger. Nevertheless, for a time the Americans were able to hang on. In the center of the Lauterbourg salient, the heterogeneous collection of American units occupying old Maginot Line fortifications put up an energetic defense against somewhat listless German armor. Lack of proper reconnaissance as well as 79th Division minefields and artillery stalled the German tanks as did the weather, icy terrain, and the unexpected presence of Task Force Linden (42d Division) units. Meanwhile the remainder of Brooks' corps tried to hold the flanks at Gambsheim and in the Vosges, keeping the salient from caving in. Disturbed by the lack of progress on the 7th, Blaskowitz personally visited the Lauterbourg front tofind out what was holding up his panzer units, threatening to courtmartial all of the principal armor commanders for their lack of aggressiveness. Finally, on 9 January, Decker's armor pierced the VI Corps center, driving it back to the Haguenau forest and forcing Brooks to commit his final reserve, the 14th Armored Division, near the towns of Hatten and Rittershoffen. Here American tanks met German armor in towns, fields, and roads, and the bitter fighting continued. The VI Corps was battling for its life on three sides.

The battleground now began to resemble a general melee. Between 10 and 20 January General Smith's 14th Armored Division, which assumed operational control of assorted infantry units of the 242d and 315th Infantry above the Haguenau forest and was supported by most of its own artillery plus that of the 79th Division, fought a sustained action with Decker's panzers. The German commanders, in turn, reinforced the attacking troops on the night of 13-14 January with the 20th Parachute Regiment (7th Parachute Division), and on the 16th with the 104th Infantry Regiment (47th Volksgrenadier Division), thereby steadily raising the stakes of the contest. But along the entire front of the VI Corps, division and regimental commanders gradually lost control over the battle, and the struggle devolved into a fierce tactical conflict between opposing battalions, companies, platoons, and smaller combat units.

The heaviest fighting was concentrated in the two small Alsatian towns of Rittershoffen and Hatten, both just north of the Haguenau forest and a mile or so apart.(6) Chance and circumstance had led the Germans to seize the eastern sections of both towns and the Americans to occupy the western parts, making the fields and roads in between a no-man's land of artillery, antitank, and small-arms fire. Efforts by each party to cut the resupply routes of the other by armored sweeps continually failed in the face of strong tank, antitank, and artillery fire from both sides. The battle thus boiled down to a desperate infantry fight within the towns, with dismounted panzer grenadiers and armored infantrymen fighting side by side with the more lowly foot infantry.(7) Almost every structure was hotly contested, and at the end of every day each side totaled up the number of houses and buildings it controlled in an attempt to measure the progress of the battle. Often in the smoke, haze, and darkness, friendly troops found themselves firing at one another, and few ventured into the narrow but open streets, preferring to advance or withdraw through the blown-out interior walls of the gutted homes and businesses. Both sides employed armor inside the town, but the half-blind tank crews had to be protected by a moving perimeter of infantrymen and could only play a limited supporting role. In Hatten, even with strong infantry and artillery support, no German or American tanker dared push his vehicle around "the bend"- a slight turn in the town's marginally wider main street that was covered by several antitank weapons from both sides.

By 15 January, as the German commitment of infantry in the two towns e

Read the rest of this comment...


Re: Terrain Challenge #60 (Score: 1)
by dumdum12 on Fri May 11, 2012 9:32 pm
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Never ever heard about the battle but nevertheless an interesting story...


Re: Terrain Challenge #60 (Score: 1)
by Lestayo on Wed May 02, 2012 5:31 pm
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Well done!!
Incredible battle!


Re: Terrain Challenge #60 (Score: 1)
by mooxe on Wed May 02, 2012 8:37 pm
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How did you figure it out?


Re: Terrain Challenge #60 (Score: 1)
by Heimdude on Wed May 02, 2012 9:18 pm
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Luck mainly as it took me about 20 mins.

Went onto Google earth, and first looked at the Normandy area, but the pic didn't really have Bocage features, so then went to Eindhoven area, but houses where different. Was on my way to Hurtgen forest since the was a forest showing at the bottom, but it didn't work either then i looked at the Haguenau forest which matched just as i was about to give up.


Re: Terrain Challenge #60 (Score: 1)
by Buck_Compton on Thu May 03, 2012 1:29 am
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Interesting article! Now please put in one or two of my challenges Mooxe!!


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