Re: Operation Sealion(Score: 1) by ronson on Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:44 pm (User Info | Send a Message)
Pretty much a toss up between the first and the last option IMO. Even had the first wave of 60,000 managed to land on the SE corner of England, there was no way they could be either supplied or reinforced once the RN entered the channel waters, the type and speed of the craft in the "invasion "fleet", being made up in the main of river barges, would have succombed to the wash of a destroyer travelling at high speed! there would have been no need to actually fire at them.
At this time the Royal Navy had more cruisers in home waters than the Germans had destroyers and the British destroyers were numbered in flotillas rather than individual ships.
IIRC Bradley commented at the time of Normandy 4 years later......Its one thing to invade, another to make it stick. That was with specifically designed craft, Air & Naval supremacy, almost inexhaustable reserves/ supplies and years of planning.
Re: Operation Sealion(Score: 1) by bildo12 on Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:45 pm (User Info | Send a Message)
Opr: Sealion Was a serious threat to think other wise, although most would assume that Germany lacked the naval power to pull it off they actually did. Everyone seems to forget germany ruled the seas for quite some time with the power of their dreaded U-boat fleet.
Re: Operation Sealion(Score: 1) by mikwarleo on Sat Dec 01, 2007 5:10 am (User Info | Send a Message)
Seems the pollsters disagree. I was always of the impression that the Brits were equipped with little more than foul language to fight any invasion attempt after Dunkirk. In the doco 'how hitler lost the war' english veteran's speak of how they had one WW1 artillery piece per mile of coastline and used to drill with sticks because they didn't have rifles.
But the navy, yes the navy...what about the air force? I woulda sent infantry in by air. Paratroops first. Night drop. Secure air bases. MGs vs foul language, I give it to the MGs.
Ships smips. Hitler had it but he lacked the nuts to take it.
Everybody sing - "Hitler ... only has one ball. Goring... has two but vvvery small. dunt dunt. dunt dUNt dunt DunT DunT. dunt dunt, DunT dunt dunt, dunt darrrrrr"
Re: Operation Sealion(Score: 1) by Ixe on Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:13 am (User Info | Send a Message)
It was a real threat!
think about this- why would they have created the homeguard otherwise. You can compare them with the old men and boys fighting the russians in berlin in 1945. This was a desparate move!!!!
- yes the RN was huge but it was spread al over the world for one. Second the U-boat "threat" for surface warships is a fable. The only great naval ship sunk by U-boats was a lucky kill when the Ark Royale went past a U-boat. In the shallow waters of the North-sea and Canal the U-boats would all have been sunk.
But the RN had huge numbers of old ships. actually most Battleships and heavy cruisers were wwI ships with updates. And most ships Lacked AA greatly in the beginning of the war. And remember the Divebombers would prove to be the biggest threat to warships throughout te entire war. And who had Hundreds of them?! A single hit on any ship, even the biggest, could sink it in an instand.
So I estimate that when the germans attacked, the RN whould need too much time to create a strong fist (fleet) and would suffer enormous losses by the Luftwaffe, (not by the German Navy). So the result would be terrible for the world. Or the invasion would have succeeded capturing Londen, or the RN would suffer so much that they could never recover from this and they would have lost "total" control over the atlantic for years crippeling the militairy power of England.
By the way, Hitler would have ruined the attack anyway by intervening like he did in every offensive since 1941 driving his fieldmarchals mad.
He was the one that ordered goring to stop the attacks on radar stations and airfields in the summer of 1940. So in fact he was the one crippeling the operation already before it began.
sorry for the long post but i was just frustrated by reading the others.
"Vietnam for Germany" "U-boats sinking the RN" lol !
If it was to be a so called "Vietnam for Germany" I don't believe it so. Operation Sealion was to be included in Sealion yes? They would have(As shown in the last post) would have killed any resistance and civilians that came along with the entire area. There was not going to be any Vietnams for Germany in WWII. If there was, then France and Poland were the biggest resistance. Britain would have put up around the same amount of resistance seeing the power of the German army. British officials such as Churchill were more worried about defending the Middle East than Britain, and they were against any attacks on the Normandy coastline because of the amount of death it would have caused. While Russia was losing mybe 10,000 men a day, Britain was worried about losing 20,000 at the bloodiest day of the war. And if the SS are as morally challenged as everyone says they are, then one partisan being the cost of 100 civilians would have been too much for British resistance forces. but that's only my arguement for this side, I can argue the other side to this topic too.
Re: Operation Sealion(Score: 1) by Pzt_Wirbelwind on Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:54 pm (User Info | Send a Message)
Never mind navy´s etc etc etc...
Think about the effect it had in Russia. It had most certainly lulled them into false security.
Even if Sealion was an illusion, it sure as hell had it´s effect in global politics.
Regards, Wirb
Re: Operation Sealion(Score: 1) by Pzt_Wirbelwind on Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:57 pm (User Info | Send a Message)
Oops... forgot something...
If Sealion would´ve ever taken place, it would´ve been a disaster.
French troops and the British Expeditioniary Force were sailed out of Dunkirk in such numbers that any invasion would be a seruious risk...
If they did crush those armies it would´ve been a walk in the park.
Re: Operation Sealion(Score: 1) by Kevin92 on Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:59 pm (User Info | Send a Message)
Oh it definitly was a threat!
If the Luftwaffe had continued harrassing RAF airfileds and radar stations they would have gained air supremacy and thus making the whole invasion easier.It's clear from the Pacific War that naval power can be completely negated by air power.As for the actual land battles that would have ensued I'm not sure Britain at the time could have defeated the Wehrmacht but we'll never know!As for partisan resistance I don't think the British people would have had the stomach for such a conflict, considering the ruthless reactions of the SS to any kind of partisan activity!We'll never know...
Re: Operation Sealion(Score: 1) by LoneRebel on Sat Jan 30, 2010 8:07 am (User Info | Send a Message)
I'd have to say that if the Germans could have pulled the invasion off it would have been a serious threat. It's generally agreed today that the British Army would not be a match for the highly mechanized German Army. The British Army was smaller (and distributed around the entire world, at that). The Germans also would not be tied up in the Soviet Union at this time.
As I understand it, the UK's military strategy as a nation has always been to maintain a powerful navy and air force and a small army. The idea was for the navy and air force to prevent any invasion attempts before they even happen. But once they happen, the small army would be hard-pressed to resist.
Re: Operation Sealion(Score: 1) by LUFT_SOLDAT_BELLEW on Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:25 am (User Info | Send a Message)
what happend to the mod that was being made?
Re: Operation Sealion(Score: 1) by kawasaky on Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:36 pm (User Info | Send a Message)
Sea lion was a wet dream, never to come true.
1) The Germans never prepared a transport fleet for the ferrying of their land forces;
2) The German Navy, according to the Plan Z, was not to be ready for war before 1945, maybe 1943;
3) The German airforce had no types of airplanes able to deliver the strategic knock-out blows, and their main fighter (Me-109) was a short-range interceptor unsuitable for the long range escort duties.
The Germans should have striken the British flanks: Malta, Suez, and by eliminating the Mediterran route freeing more submarines for the North Atlantic blockade duties. To attack directly towards the British isles, as they did, was a stupidity.
No doubt in my mind if Germany had invaded Britain at the time, Britian would have been occupied. The Allied troops had little heavy weaponry (most of it left in France and on the beaches of Dunkirk). The RAF had their backs to the wall and was in imminent danger of collapsing. The Navy would have been the most potent threat, but as already mentioned, comprised of very dated ships. While they would have put up a serious challange, would have been in their turn compromised by the combination of German ships, submarines, and aircraft.
The French and British Armies had been trashed in France, so how in hell could they have posed ANY threat defies comprehension. Once the German invasion had taken hold, the remaining RAF bases would have been neutralised, leaving just the Navy, and once their Ports and Supply had been eliminated from mainland Britain, where would they go, and where would new ships and repairs be carried out?
Hindsight can make things seem easy to judge, but it is still 'what ifs'. It is clear that the Germans made some monumental strategic mistakes, and I would argue whether their intentions could have ever been successful in the long term. That said, the map of Europe could be very different if they had chosen differently, but that we will never know, and can argue about until the end of time...
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