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Afrika 40-41 Ready for download and play!

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Close Combat Series -> CC5 Afrika 40'41

#1: Afrika 40-41 Ready for download and play! Author: RD_Oddball,

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:24 am
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At long last I've decided to release the mod. After 4 long years of work and waiting.

I've just recently made the links available for posting at the downloads sections here at CSS and over at CSO so they may not yet be available. So if you absolutely cannot wait and want to download them immediately you may go to the Red Devils Close Combat Clan site and download them there.

http://www.reddevilscc.com/forum/default.asp?CAT_ID=23

Download links as well as an interview created by RD_Helmut and background about the mod also exist there.

Enjoy!

#2: mmm Author: ANZAC_Lord4war, Location: Sydney Australia

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:49 am
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Congrats on release.4 years is a lot of hard work.
Something to add to CC5 cabinet for 2007!

#3: Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:46 am
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Congrats and thanks! Finally!!! Very Happy

.
Hmm...I'm not finished with SDK, need gaming time for Uberdave's KG...and now Afrika '40-'41 is released.
Progress on my own BoS1945 will have to suffer again I guess Smile

.

Thanks again for releasing the mod!

#4: Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:53 am
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*** double post ***

Last edited by squadleader_id on Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:52 am; edited 1 time in total

#5: CC5 Afrika 40'41 question Author: ANZAC_Lord4war, Location: Sydney Australia

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:54 am
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d/l it in single map format from RD site
there is 44 maps listed
with 1 map listed twice
BirSciha

is that a naming error for the zip?
just go ahead and d/l it?

#6: mmm Author: ANZAC_Lord4war, Location: Sydney Australia

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:16 am
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i d/l both of the maps
they r the same

so by my count there is a map missing
can some1 make a post when it gets sorted?

#7: Author: roonburg,

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:39 am
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I've been looking forward to this mod for a long time.

I finally get to play as the australians in CC. But it does limit my side choices. Cant really fight agains the aussies in the theater my grandfather was in.

#8: aussie troops Author: ANZAC_Tack, Location: Australia

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:16 am
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aussie troops in:
CCIII Vietnam(i helped with weapons)
CCIII afrika
CCIII Pacific(pac)had a (sub) mod i was told was brits/aussies in stead of US

#9: Author: Searry, Location: Finland

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:20 am
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Damn you, now i have to forget playing EU3.

#10: Author: Searry, Location: Finland

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:19 pm
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Which files i have to edit to make the GC to last 2 months?

#11: Author: RD_Oddball,

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:08 pm
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Thanks for the congrats guys.

RE: duplicate map link - We're looking into it. When I was posting the links given to me by RD_Helmut I noticed one map was listed twice giving a total count of 45 maps so I deleted that one. I thought I double-checked those so best I can do for the moment is to say we're looking into it. I know for a fact the map plugin is a complete set. I'll post here when the single map downloads are fixed. Should be today.

@ Searry - Not sure I understand the question but I'll take a stab at answering it anyway. You download the entire mod then alter the GC in the scenario editor accessed through the games main screen. You can mod the GC in any way you like there. Hope that helps mate.

#12: Author: Searry, Location: Finland

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:45 pm
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RD_Oddball wrote:

@ Searry - Not sure I understand the question but I'll take a stab at answering it anyway. You download the entire mod then alter the GC in the scenario editor accessed through the games main screen. You can mod the GC in any way you like there. Hope that helps mate.

No. I want to play after the 25th week, because the reinforcements come so late to the game. I want it to be like 50weeks/100turns.

#13: Author: bambam887, Location: Belgium

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:07 pm
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Congrats Very Happy

IF RD ODBALL = AA_JIMBO Question

Maybe you can find the time for an update here Wink

PS new video included?

#14: Author: Sapa,

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:51 pm
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Fantastic work guys! Love it!! But i miss some kind of Italian or British music because i can only hear the american jazz that almost makes me throw up... Shocked

Good luck with this fantastic new CC5 mod Smile

Cheers and Thanks! /Mats

#15: mmm Author: ANZAC_Lord4war, Location: Sydney Australia

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:34 pm
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k seems u accidentally deleted Bir Sheferzern.
double check

#16: Recommendations for improvement. Author: ACJL__Karain,

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:37 pm
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Well done on getting this mod working. A hell of alot of effort has obviously been put into this mod. Me and BlackSn have had several bitter battles for Fort Capuzzo already. However I do see several areas where things could be changed for the better, though these are in no way complaints, just areas which I think could be improved on for later versions.

1st RTR can't retreat from Habtat, nor can teh Italians advance from that map if they destroy 1st RTR.

The 1st Kings Dragoon Guards didnt arrive in North Africa till 41 as the divisional Reconnissance for 2nd Armoured Division. You could convert this Bg into 2nd Rifle Brigade to give the 7th Armoured Some Infantry like they had historically. Selby force could also be scrapped to create 1st Kings Royal Rifel Corps, the second motor battalion of 7th Armoured, again giving the division infantry it historically had.

The British BG's are very short on weapons. Historically they formed into Jock Columns, all arm columns with light tanks, a company of riflemen, a battery of artillery, and harrassed the enemy. Although still keeping the name of the parent unit for teh BG, a wider dispersal of arms would make battles easier for the British but also more historically accurate.

The British standard rifle of the time was the MK.3 Lee-Enfield. The No.4 wasn't issued till 1943 mainly to the assault units of Normandy and slowly filtered through to the rest of the army.

There is a AT gun in the British BG's called the 37mm. As far as I am aware the only time that the British had 37mm guns was on the Stuart and Grant tanks from the US. The picture for the gun in the BG is what looks like a 3.7inch AA gun but im not sure. The gun itself has the firepower of a US or German 37mm.

One of my tank crews was popping away at a Italian gun several hundred metres away with his pistol. So maybe tweaking with range needs to be done.

British pioneers have flamethrowers.

British and Italian mortars seem to be extremely ineffective.

The LRDG didn't have Jeeps till 1941.

Sten Guns were not issued in North Africa till late 1942 at the very least.

Garand Rifles were not issued to British regular troops during the war. I am not sure that they had even reached US units in 1940. Certainly not in large numbers if they had.

Am I right in assuming that Valentines, Stuarts, Humbers, Daimlers and the other vehicles that were not around in 1940, have been added Bg's so as to give wider variety when creating your own battles in the scenario maker?

Again great mod, thanks for those years of effort.

#17: Author: RD_Oddball,

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:40 pm
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Thanks again guys. L4W I'll look into it. Thanks for the heads up.

@ Bambam - Long time no talk mate! Good to hear from you. Yep RD_Oddball = AA_Jimbo_JimRM2. All same guy. No I didn't forget your/our video. I wanted to keep the plugin size to a minmum so purposely left it for uploading later on. I was planning on doing it this week... time permitting. Seems times at a premium these days. Status quo for me. Don't worry I didn't forget about it.

#18: Author: RD_Oddball,

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:47 pm
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Excellent points ACJL__Karain and thanks for the kudos.

To your point - yes correct on all accounts. Most of those details I was aware of. Some I have sources (books) that disagree (i.e. entry of dragoon guards). In MANY MANY cases compromises had to be made. Probably more than in any other mod. Mainly due to the nature of the war in Africa. it simply was not cut and dry in most respects. Often exceptions to the rule and information is scarce and record keeping was minimal. Seems to be that way throughout the african campaign. Lots of discrepancies in the information I could find. So as a mod team we did the best we could.

I'd like to invite anyone who has the inclination and desire to do so, to make a sub mod as they see fit. This is a sincere, welcoming invitation to all in the spirit of open source projects. Partly because I know there are lots of holes in the mod and secondly because it's likely it'll be a while before I have a chance to make upgrades... unfortunately.

#19: Author: mooxe,

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:53 pm
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Nice to see the mod released. Thanks Jimbo and all involved. Wish I was home so I could play it..... from looking at it before I was suprised there was no Germans in it, but it is obvious why.

#20: Author: RD_Helmut,

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:16 am
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AFRIKA map:

Here is the link for the individual link that was missing from the RD website. It has also been corrected at the website, but to save anyone time that needs the map here it is:

http://www.closecombatseries.net/airborneassault/AFRIKA/BirShefe.zip

Thank you to Lord 4 War for posting this ommission. I appologize for the mistake as gave Oddball a duplicate.

I also read some of the above comments about the mod and its great feedback, but if you have feedback or comments please go to the following link and post them. http://www.reddevilscc.com/forum/default.asp?CAT_ID=23

This will keep all the comments in one central place and help Oddball (who's running around like his head cutoff) to address them easily in one spot.

Thanks,

#21: Author: RD_Oddball,

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:24 am
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Thanks for fixing it Helmut. I can't believe I missed that error because I even double-checked it. The complete set of individual map downloads is now available at RD as Helmut mentioned.

Thanks for the mention of consolodating the posts Helmut. Every little bit helps.

#22: Tweaks Author: ACJL__Karain,

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:40 am
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I must admit I am a complete virgin when it comes to modding a game. But I have quite a good knowledge of the North African campaign from start to finish, so if anybody does want to create a submod as Oddball says, please give me a call if you need some historical data or anything like that.

Again thanks for those years of effort Oddball. (So much better than the El Alamein mod.)

#23: Thanks and good job Author: Pzt_Kevin_dtn, Location: USA

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:32 pm
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Great job!! I downloaded and played it a little last night. I look forward to diving into it more deeply. Thanks for all the hard work.

#24: Author: RD_Oddball,

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:15 pm
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Thanks guys.

Searry I forgot to reply to your last comment. Uh the only thing I can think of is to load the GC in the scenario editor and change the dates by removing the first weeks until you get late enough in the GC for your liking.

Sorry I don't have a better suggestion but I'm not aware of one.

#25: Author: GS_Sturm, Location: Cottbus / Germany

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:27 pm
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Hey, thx for the Mod! Great Work! :ok2 :prostration

#26: Re: Recommendations for improvement. Author: sample,

Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:33 am
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ACJL__Karain wrote:

There is a AT gun in the British BG's called the 37mm. As far as I am aware the only time that the British had 37mm guns was on the Stuart and Grant tanks from the US. The picture for the gun in the BG is what looks like a 3.7inch AA gun but im not sure. The gun itself has the firepower of a US or German 37mm.

acording to this site (and i've seen some archive footage with the gun)
http://www.btinternet.com/~ian.a.paterson/equipment.htm
the british have some 37mm Bofors (M1936) Anti-tank Gun pressed into service

anyway, congrats to the mod makers !!!

#27: Author: ronson, Location: England

Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:56 am
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Yes your are right Smile

sample.
Owing to the shortage of equipment after Dunkirk and the battle of France, the Bofors 37mm AT guns were taken over from the Sudanese army (never knew they had one!) during 1940 and used in the desert until 1941 to suppliment the 2pdrs.
These would have been used by the AT Regts. RA attached to the divisions,
certainly present in 3RHA which had 4 batteries, although I'm unsure what the mix of 37mm and 2pdrs was, and possibly other Regts. too.
They were phased out in 1941 due to wear and also as UK and Dominion divisions in Egypt had priority for new equipment.

Congratulations a very nice mod Smile

Cheers
Ronson

#28: Congratulations RD Oddball Author: Flamethrower,

Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:19 pm
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Great Mod RD Oddball!!! Kudos & congrats Laughing

#29: Author: RD_Oddball,

Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:04 pm
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Thanks FT Very Happy

@Ronson - I have also found what you're saying to be true. Both the bofors and 37mm AT gun were in use in Afrika.

I HAD a big long post about the topic written up to describe the research I found to support what we're saying but the post aborted after I hit "submit" and I lost it. I was too pissed to reproduce it. I guess that's why the "copy to clipboard" button was made available eh? Must happen often. Mad

So you'll have to take this one on faith guys. Rolling Eyes

#30: Author: QM, Location: Australia

Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:04 am
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On ya mate. Laughing

#31: Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:08 am
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Hey, Jim...

great mod! Great looking custom interface screens (desert flavored), great maps, the soldiers uniforms presentation and tanks looks awesome! I've only tried the single battles...but the gameplay is smooth and fun.

One minor thing...why didn't you (and the mod team) give the Indian Teams/BGs a separate Nationality code? In Afrika40-41 Indian Units are coded with the same Nationality code as British units...so they show up in the game with British names...kinda strange.
I've been working a lot with Indian Units and data these past few months (BoS1945)...and I'm used to seeing Indian Teams with Indian names in the game. I believe that the Indian Teams/BGs in CC5: El Alamein were coded as Indian Nationality and the teams show up in the game with Indian names.

The vehicles/tanks looks great...I hope the Afrika40-41 team don't mind if we use some of them (with some custom editing) for BoS1945. I'll PM you about this, Jim.

Thanks again for all the hard work on Afrika40-41...4 years is a long time!

#32: Author: ZAPPI4, Location: Belgium Liege

Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:40 pm
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Hi all ... This mod look like GJS is. a complete and strong mod... Congrat to the team ...

Between iv got a question... Maybe u already replyed to it but well...

Yesterday i tryed to make my own GC or Op and cant save it ... error message ... is it normal?

#33: Author: dj,

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:44 pm
—
Jim

Thanks a million for this mod. The strat map looks awesome. It looks like this is geared for H2H play but seems to be okay for single player also?

I've started the GC as the Italians (single player) thinking the Allies would have the advantage. So far the Italians are dominating, but don't have enough AT guns to last long further into the campaign...so it would even out later into GC.

The best way to play the full timeframe of the mod is by playing the 4 seperate operations?

#34: Author: RD_Oddball,

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:29 pm
—

squadleader_id wrote:

Hey, Jim...

great mod! Great looking custom interface screens (desert flavored), great maps, the soldiers uniforms presentation and tanks looks awesome! I've only tried the single battles...but the gameplay is smooth and fun.

One minor thing...why didn't you (and the mod team) give the Indian Teams/BGs a separate Nationality code? In Afrika40-41 Indian Units are coded with the same Nationality code as British units...so they show up in the game with British names...kinda strange.
I've been working a lot with Indian Units and data these past few months (BoS1945)...and I'm used to seeing Indian Teams with Indian names in the game. I believe that the Indian Teams/BGs in CC5: El Alamein were coded as Indian Nationality and the teams show up in the game with Indian names.

The vehicles/tanks looks great...I hope the Afrika40-41 team don't mind if we use some of them (with some custom editing) for BoS1945. I'll PM you about this, Jim.

Thanks again for all the hard work on Afrika40-41...4 years is a long time!

Thanks for the kudos Squadleader. Please see my responses to the nationalities at the RD site. Thanks again for your input on this.

http://www.reddevilscc.com/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=65

As far as using the vehicles on your mod feel free to do so. I would assume Neil Nello (guy who made most of the vehicle graphics) won't mind either. However it would be good to get his permission as well. THANKS FOR ASKING FIRST! The way it should be done! Very Happy

Thank you!

#35: Author: RD_Oddball,

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:33 pm
—

ZAPPI4 wrote:

Hi all ... This mod look like GJS is. a complete and strong mod... Congrat to the team ...

Between iv got a question... Maybe u already replyed to it but well...

Yesterday i tryed to make my own GC or Op and cant save it ... error message ... is it normal?

Thanks for the compliment Zappi!

Re: saving GC's or OP's - I've found that when I receive errors in the scenario editor it is usually because of a small mistake on my part. I'm not 100% sure but that is usually the case. I have found that the scenario editor doesn't really like revision of existing GC's or OP's. I also get a saving error if I'm trying to do that. More often than not I must re-create the GC or Op from scratch. It's a major pain in the ass but it works. If all else fails you might try that.

Another experiment to see if your installation is working - you might try creating a faux op or gc to see if you can save any homemade op or GC. If not then that would indicate a problem elsewhere in your CC installation.

#36: Author: RD_Oddball,

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:48 pm
—

dj wrote:

Jim

Thanks a million for this mod. The strat map looks awesome. It looks like this is geared for H2H play but seems to be okay for single player also?

I've started the GC as the Italians (single player) thinking the Allies would have the advantage. So far the Italians are dominating, but don't have enough AT guns to last long further into the campaign...so it would even out later into GC.

The best way to play the full timeframe of the mod is by playing the 4 seperate operations?

Thanks for the compliment DJ!

I would say that playing the 4 operations is the quickest way to see all four phases of this time period and experience a fairly dramatic shift in the balance of power. In my research I found those four phases to be the distinct elements over that year time period. Chapters if you will. I think the Ops give a pretty good picture of the progression of that short history. There are some minor discrepancies between the mod and r/l history but most are a result of CC's limitations. It's as close as I could get.

The British army structure in the desert becomes really apparent in January of '41. That's when IMO the lessons learned are starting to be put into practice. Mechanized battlegroups to capitalize on speed with the structure being basically mini-armies rather than distinct divisions specializing in only one thing. Attaching various groups to other groups creating self-sufficient battlegroups was very common and an necessity due to the distances desert warfare took place over. General O'Conner pioneered this approach during Operation Compass. Only through percerverance on his part to challenge the classed based British military leadership system and the long standing standard WWI approach to tank warefare did he finally succeed in making is point and get his way. He sacrificed a great deal of opportunity for promotion to stand up for what he believed was the proper approach. It wound up saving thousands of lives by bringing a quick end to Italy's control. Of course when Rommel enters Africa things change dramatically once again. Then Monty enters and builds on O'Conners approach and fashions his own unique approach.

So what is the long winded point I'm trying to make you ask? LOL That the battlegroups in later ops are structured more in the O'Conner-esque fashion. Again the CC battlegroup system doesn't allow for nuances that existed in history so take what you see with a grain of salt.

#37: Author: Wittmann44,

Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 10:14 am
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Hi squadleader_id,

what is BoS1945?

#38: Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:18 pm
—

Wittmann44 wrote:

Hi squadleader_id,

what is BoS1945?

Wittmann44...you can read some info about BoS1945 here:
http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=179&mode=&order=0&thold=0

I will post some updates on the progress of the mod later this month (or early next month).

#39: Bofors 37mm ATG Author: ronson, Location: England

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:42 am
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Managed to find this shot of the aformentioned 37mm Bofors ATG, hope it is of use to you, and gives some idea of the size of this weapon.

Couldn't find any pics of it in action

BTW This is not to be confused with the 40mm Bofors, which was an AA gun and in use with the Light AA regts. around the same time.

Cheers
Ronson

#40: Author: ATscout,

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:20 pm
—
Hello and congratulations for this impresive mod! Absolutelly great work, guys!

I only have one concern. The screenshot gallery show there's no mercy for the poor italians, who often bites the dust in the first 5 minutes of the battle. : Cool

The british are well equiped, have plenty of air/artilery/naval support, and generally defend easy-to-defend areas. So, if you know how to use your firepower and to distribute your men according to the terrain, playing as british seems too easy.

What do you think? (This is not a critic Smile

)

Anyway, great work, the best African mod by now, I can't wait to download it. Razz

#41: Author: RD_Oddball,

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:29 pm
—
@ Ronson - Thanks for posting the pic. That is the exact one I was talking about. I have a few pics of this gun in action but I'm not allowed to publish them on this site without the AusWarMus permission. So to any folks not so sure, trust what we're saying. The gun was in action and pressed into service. Albiet not in huge numbers but nonetheless there. IIRC I didn't include huge numbers of these guns in the mod. Also they're rather under powered. You'd be better off either using them at close quarters in the city maps or taking a 2pdr or 6pdr instead if they're available.

BTW I just remembered. There was a pic of this gun being used portee in an Osprey Campaign book about Operation Compass. Here it is. See attachement.

Also for those who had questions about the size of the Chevy '32 truck the LRDG used this is a pretty good example of just how big it was. Pretty large as far as flatbed trucks go. However the graphic was three pixels too large and CSO_Linebacker (njnjr23) is fixing it for the subsequent release.

@ AT Scout - Thanks for the compliments and kudos. Yes playing as British is pretty easy against the AI. H2H play is a little better for the Italians. I'd suggest giving Salhexe's vetmod a try against the AI. The Italians should perform slightly better when controlled by the AI. IMH experience the AI is never difficult to beat even on the mods where the AI controlled side is given all the teeth a modder can give them. A simple Blitzkreig or Shock and Awe type strategy (ignoring your casualties) usually results in a VERY quick victory.[img][/img][img][/img]

UK-37mm-portee-02.jpg

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#42: Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:00 am
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RD_Oddball wrote:

Thank you!

Jim, when you have time to edit the Nationality codes...here's a nifty Universal Names.txt Pack (made by drew):
http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=605

Indian and New Zealand (Maori) names are ready for use in the pack.
Also BRNames.txt - Great Britain (except Ireland) (4333)
IRNames.txt - Ireland (2663)
UKNames.txt - UK including Ireland (6648)
SCNames.txt - Scotland (378)

#43: Author: RD_Oddball,

Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:01 pm
—
Thanks Squadleader! That'll help a lot. I'll be sure to include it in the update.

BTW love the banner for your mod. Reminds me of a 70's era movie poster. Very cool. Did you do the illustration?

#44: Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:08 am
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No probs, Jim!
Glad you like the banner. 70s movie poster? Yup, I like old-school designs Wink

. Actually, I'm lousy at illustrations...I just slapped the thing together using various pics and paintings.

#45: Author: Pzt_Mac, Location: Oregon

Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 5:58 pm
—
Hello,

Sorry if I'm posting these in the wrong thread or if they've already been mentioned.

Some issues that have come up while playing the mod:
1. 37mm Italian ATG's draw a black circle and will not fire on Allied 6lb ATG's.

2. 20mm Italian Command Armored Vehicle's cannon draws a black circle on Vickers Carriers and will not fire.

3. 20mm Itlaian ATG will not fire on infantry as it is "saving ammo" from the start.

Thanks for the mod!
-Mac

#46: Author: RD_Oddball,

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 6:59 pm
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It's something that will be addressed in subsequent versions.

Currently the reason for the black LOS circles is one or all of several factors. Weapon effectiveness, settings for "primary target" and "valid target" and supply settings. For now we'll have to grin and bear it until I have time to get to the first upgrade for the mod.

Glad you guys are liking the mod despite it's minor, temporary shortcomings.

#47: Author: Pzt_Mac, Location: Oregon

Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 5:26 pm
—
But of course! Every new mod has it's minor problems (much better than major problems Wink

). Thanks for all your hard work.

Danke!

#48: Author: Tacloban,

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:10 pm
—
Thank you for this mod, I know it took many long hours to develop. It is a part of WW2 I don't know much about. I now have to find a good read to learn the history.

I'm only half-way through the "60 Miles" op, but I think this new mod is terrific. The sounds are great and the game plays very well. I can write off the oversized trucks to...to...uhm...heat mirages! and the not engaging, that's just fog of war for you.

Bellisimo! Multe grazia!

#49: Author: RD_Oddball,

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:35 pm
—
Thanks for the compliment Tacloban. Glad you're enjoying it.

And yes there are lots of changes that need to be made to the next update. Trucks being one. Funny enough tho the scale of those trucks is only off by three pixels. Hardly noticeable really. In reality they were just that big. Weird eh?

#50: Author: offog,

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:16 pm
—
Thank for the work producing this Mod.

I would like to add some comments if I may.

The introduction of a minimum range fro the FOO I think is a good idea. In reality this would also relate to the troops on the ground but in game it would be difficult to do.

I to have had problems with the 37mm targeting a truck, an inability for which they suffered the ultimate price, and rightly so for their incompetence.

The 2in mortar can fire indirect in the game. This weapon was a line of sight weapon with very crude sighting on early models for range. On later models it was experience and a white line. So engaging targets in dead ground was difficult if not virtually impossible. I think it should be targeted as a line of sight weapon. Does it have the ability to fire smk?

I prefer the removal of the mortars to snipe but feel you may have gone a bit too far in the opposite direction. The Italian mortars seem to be far more accurate then the 3in, having lost a number of tanks to mortar fire.

On a number of maps the air attack has arrived, but failed to deliver. I know the RAF are currently having problems in Afghanistan, but was it your purpose to replicate this. I also liked the variety of CAS you have introduced.

An excellent Mod, thank you, although my wife is not so keen on you. Very Happy

#51: Author: ronson, Location: England

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:31 pm
—
Quite right offog, the 2" mortar used by British and Commonwealt forces was a line of sight weapon, and was issued one per rifle platoon. Ammo supply would be a mix of smoke and HE, 2-1 in favour of SMOKE, its principle use being the covering of movement.

The FO could actually bring fire down almost on top of his own position, called Final Defensive Fire (FDF), however I agree that this would not be the usual procedure, being as the name implies a last resort.

The 3" or 81mm mortar has in reality a mimimum range of about 100m, and it would indeed be an exceptional shot that hit a moving vehicle of any kind and with an explosive content of around 3-4kg very unlikely to destroy or damage a tank of any type. The bomb is designed to splinter on impact, and these splinters are what cause the high proportion of the casualties from this kind of weapon.

I dare say that these minor problems are being addressed even as we write and that we can soon be playing some more of this exceptional mod which I think has the potential to become a world beater.

Cheers
Ronson

#52: Author: RD_Oddball,

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:43 pm
—
Thanks for the great feedback and kudos Offog.

Re: 37mm - This is a problem with the weapons file which I did not do. Although I supported the concept for it the concept is not working in practice. The idea was that many of the weapons would be given shorter effective ranges to introduce a new style of play to CC that was more similar to real life tactics in the desert during WWII. Use armor and arty to buy time to allow the troops to get close enough to be effective. Along those same lines the weapons effectiveness was reduced to be more in scale with CC map sizes. Simulating loss of effectiveness over longer real life ranges. The result was that several of the weapons do not react at all and some only react at close quarters. This "bug" will be fixed in subsequent updates.

RE: 2 in mortar - some good points. I would imagine thost mortars were used in a variety of ways. As they say necessity is the mother of invention. However due to the fact that the 2 in mortars did in fact exist within some command teams making them available only in direct fire would work better for the CC engine and be more in line with how they were likely used. i.e. as you outlined.

RE: snipers - I've yet to read accounts about actual snipers used in the desert during this time period and for that matter at all. They simply did not play that large a role. Mortars however were a staple and used much more often than in any other theater. They were very effective in the desert due to the terrain and lack of cover and served the purpose they were made for. To provide direct and suppressive fire as well as smoke screens. At least the research I've done shows that. I'd be open to reading other accounts if you can find them. I'd need to see a copy tho in order to understand the nature of the account.

Re: air attack failure - RAF: lol no wasn't my intention. It's a bug that was overlooked. My apologies for missing this one. It'll be fixed in the next update.

Tell your wife she should learn to play CC and you guys will be able to spend countless hours beating the crap out of each other without ever laying a hand on each other. Then later you can lay hands on each other and the real life make up sex will be outstanding! Very Happy

I'm doleing out relationship advice like friggin' doctor Phil now. LOL Sorry couldn't resist the opportunity for a joke. Wasn't intended to be at your expense. Thanks for allowing me the opportunity. Smile

#53: Author: RD_Oddball,

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:50 pm
—
@ronson - we must be posting at the exact same moment.

RE: 3in mortar min. range - Might be an interesting conecpt for CC. I would imagine the tubes elevation angle was a limitation since the front support legs would not be able to work at a near vertical angle. i.e. support leg and tube cannot occupy the same space at the same time. Physically impossible the way they were designed. Not that you'd want to fire a mortar anywhere close to your firing position. LOL Hmmm *thinks maniacal thoughts* I wonder how folks would react at that change for the mod. I'm sure some would be pissed and confused. Although 100m in CC isn't too bad a restriction in most cases.

#54: Author: ronson, Location: England

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:38 pm
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Ha ha Great minds etc. Jim Very Happy

Yes in fact the tube and legs must be at an angle to support the weapon, as when you drop a round down the barrel the propellent charge contained in the base explodes on contact with the firing pin, throwing the round up into the air and towards target. If the tube was at too greater angle it would simply fall over! causing red faces all round Embarassed

The minimum size of the propellent charge, which is set before you fire, also has an effect on the minimum range.

I'm afraid I can't remember the minimum angle that was used on the 81mm, but I doubt if it was less than 30 degrees from vertical.

There are a lot of factors to be taken into account when firing these weapons all of which affect accuracy. None of which I would like to go into in an open forum for obvious reasons, however if you would like to know more of the tech details just PM me and I'll be happy to answer any questions that I can.

Apart from the sights and fire control methods, I doubt very much if the modern 81mm is all that different to its WW2 predecessors.

Cheers
Ronson

#55: Author: offog,

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:59 pm
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You misunderstand me, I did not mean to introduce snipers, I was commenting on the ability of mortar to accurately hit and destroy guns in CC.

As for 3in I think it would be a good idea to have a minimum range to reflect the charge system. The problem is not so much the elevation as the charge/propellant. There has been one documented incident where the mortar was fired at close range. This was the action at Mirbat in Dhofar on 19 Jun 72 when a number of SAS held of Adoo rebels.

The mortar could not be elevated far enough to fire at such close range and Cpl Bob Bradshaw had to tilt it back against his chest and grip it with his thighs, while another man dropped the mortar shells down the barrel.

Ghosts and illustrated story of the SAS, Ken Connor, 2000, Cassell and Co

He references this to Anthony Kemp, The SAS: savage Wars of Peace.

For an online report of the action,

http://www.britains-smallwars.com/Desert_song/Mirbat.htm

Ken Connor also mention in passing the use of petrol to increase the range of mortars. I have heard this from odd sweats but never used it or seen it done.

When looking for other info I came across this for sale on ebay,

The CH 1 is the charge number IE charge one the P+1 I would think was primary +charge 1. this would seem to indicate that it was not fired on primary unlike the 81mm. So minimum range would be 300 yds and max on charge 4 would be 3101 yds. The QE I would assume was Quadrant Elevation, so minimum elevation was 80 degrees (not far off vertical) with max using 45 degrees. On the back it also has time of flight with 13 sec minimum and 36 max.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Military-3-inch-Mortar-Range-Finder-Slide-Rule-1945_W0QQitemZ180098223527QQcategoryZ4375QQcmdZViewItem

As for minimum range for guns, I quite like the idea that when engaging non armoured targets they use small arms at close range. This may be the basis for this problem. But having Italian FOO parties firing SA when the op should be firing guns is a bit off Very Happy

especially when the target is armour and on the other side of the map. I also noticed a similar problem to the CAS with shot fired but no bang at the other end. I assumed this was to replicate duds.

#56: Author: offog,

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:28 pm
—
Ronson

An FPF was not necessarily a close fire mission but a target of importance in your defence IE expected assaulting location of the enemy. Because of its importance only one FPF was issued to a fire unit and they would always be laid on the FPF when not firing on other targets. FPF or FDF are defensive fire on pre-recorded targets so the accuracy is very high.

What you are referring to is a Danger Close mission when the FOO brings fire close into friendly forces (FF) (normally he is one of them). This can be fired in the attack or defence but normally in defence as you rightly say you are about to be over run. The best documented action I have read concerning this was the Australian action at Long Tan when a Kiwi gunner brought consistent accurate fire down in protection of D coy, an action in which he received a MBE.

My point is about operational safety and not firing too close to FF in case the rounds do not land in the area that you expect them to. This takes into account your ability to map read (do you know where you are and the location of the enemy), wind, accuracy of the map reading of the gun line, (do they know where they are) inaccuracy in ammo and barrel wear.

#57: Author: Darkomen,

Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 10:05 am
—
Just a quick thanks RD oddball - the game works great and have experienced no problems. Being an Aussie, i am hoping there are some AIF troops available - come across NZ but no Aussies yet. Will keep playing and find out i suppose.

Been playing CC since it first came out, yet it is only just now that i have come across all these great mods - breathed a new lease of life into the best game(s) ever.

A few mates that i play LAN with are blown away too.

Again, great stuff

#58: Author: Blackstump, Location: Hunter Valley Australia

Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 8:46 am
—
Darkoman get your arse onto gs and play some more Aussies, plenty here watin for some other countrymen,

#59: ERROR in every battle Author: wrenek,

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:39 am
—
Evil or Very Mad

I've got this error in every map :

Informs Direct Draw that the previous Blt which is transfering information to or from this Surface is incomplete

Close Combat Series -> CC5 Afrika 40'41

output generated using printer-friendly topic mod. All times are GMT

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