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Superb & agressive AI hats off to the developers!

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#1: Superb & agressive AI hats off to the developers! Author: BobbyDazzler, Location: Manchester

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:27 am
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i have to express the utmost praise to the developers for this mod, the AI engine that you guys have used is brutally agressive, after nearly 10 years of playing CC, I have finally found a mod that offers a genuine challenge and is a joy to play!! for so long i have despaired at the poor quality AI found in other mods, so often i have to switch the monitor off and wait for a battle to end because the AI doesnt do anything, lets face it realism and historical accuracy are the most meaningful determinants of a mods quality, not how many tanks you can smash against each other.. along with Der Kessel mod this is truly a worthwhile mod and I absolutely reccomend that all CC fans dedicate this mod some serious time!!

many thanks to the developers Smile

Bob

#2: Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:25 pm
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where have I heard that before?

#3: Author: Searry, Location: Finland

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:38 pm
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I agree with the OP.

#4: Author: Sapa,

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:26 pm
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schrecken wrote:

where have I heard that before?

:prostration

/Mats

#5: Author: Tippi-Simo, Location: Helsinki

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:55 pm
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Hehhehe!!

#6: Author: BobbyDazzler, Location: Manchester

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 4:16 pm
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point taken colonel schreckel, suppose it was a little naive of me to forget that thers ppl like yourself who have ample time on their hands to browse cc forums at 2 in the morning and read every post thats made..

sorry mate, maybe i ll ask you next time before i make a post Laughing

#7: Author: dgfred, Location: N.C., USA

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 4:31 pm
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BobbyDazzler wrote:

point taken colonel schreckel, suppose it was a little naive of me to forget that thers ppl like yourself who have ample time on their hands to browse cc forums at 2 in the morning and read every post thats made..

sorry mate, maybe i ll ask you next time before i make a post Laughing

Don't let it bother you Dazzler. The coding in pzjager's mods is amazing, I wish some other mods (Battle of Berlin, Normandy, etc) could get some of the same kind of AI aggressiveness. I enjoy playing defensive battles the most and many times I've just waited for the timer to run out, because the
AI's units just sit in the same spot the entire 15 minutes Mad

#8: Author: ZAPPI4, Location: Belgium Liege

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:16 pm
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Play H2H if u want a real challenge

#9: Author: BobbyDazzler, Location: Manchester

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:27 pm
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i couldnt agree more..good to hear that other ppl agree on the issue, i ll certainly have to look at some H2H with real ppl on the other end

bob

#10: Author: ZAPPI4, Location: Belgium Liege

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:30 pm
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Well IA may be good as you want,
it cant be as serious opponents as any CC Human veteran

#11: Author: dgfred, Location: N.C., USA

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:41 pm
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ZAPPI4 wrote:

Play H2H if u want a real challenge

I get my challenges where and when I want them.... some people
don't have the time or inclination to play H2H for their own reasons.
What is the problem with liking the way this mod AI was done, besides
the personal issues that is???

#12: Author: ZAPPI4, Location: Belgium Liege

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:46 pm
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? Not sure to follow you. Does i was agressif when i replyed?

As u said you v got your challenge where and when u want,
U would say, "and how i want."
There is no problemo to play the game than u prefer.
I said, whatever the mod is, A CC human veteran will always beat an IA.
I never saw an IA agressive as veteran player.

#13: Author: dgfred, Location: N.C., USA

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:53 pm
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Everyone knows a human opponent is better than the AI.

I was saying some people can not play or do not want to play H2H for time
or other reasons.

I was only stating how this mod is fun/good because of the aggressive AI.

I was hoping that other mods would be able to produce the same aggressiveness by the AI.

#14: Author: ZAPPI4, Location: Belgium Liege

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:59 pm
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Well, a lot of people who play only IA
are playing it because many other things than
the only way than they prefer for time issue ir so.
A lot of them dont get a good connection,
or at least things they dont get.
Or they dont know where to play.
They dont know how to play.
They have firewall problm.
And many other things

#15: Author: dgfred, Location: N.C., USA

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:03 pm
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Exactly.

But we were discussing the aggressive AI and how much we liked it.

You jumped in and stated- 'If you want a real challenge play H2H', which
was not what we were discussing.

#16: Author: BobbyDazzler, Location: Manchester

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:05 pm
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i agree time constraints are a problem, but after weighing up the arguments for and against ive installed gameranger so i ll get the chance to play some real ppl and give you guys my verdict..

#17: Author: ZAPPI4, Location: Belgium Liege

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:06 pm
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Well, u were speaking about agressive IA...

The agressivity of your opponent ( the IA) was on the table.
I said to myself, well, maybe this guy dont get th etime to play H2H
and then maybe he dont know How a human can be agressive ...
Then i feel myself obligated to reoply to tell him...
If i was out of subject, i dont guess.
If i'm not welcome to your post, yes i guess.
That's 2 different things Wink

Anyways, sorry, Dgfred ... Dont hit, dont hit

#18: Author: dgfred, Location: N.C., USA

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:12 pm
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ZAPPI4 wrote:

Well, u were speaking about agressive IA...

The agressivity of your opponent ( the IA) was on the table.
I said to myself, well, maybe this guy dont get th etime to play H2H
and then maybe he dont know How a human can be agressive ...
Then i feel myself obligated to reoply to tell him...
If i was out of subject, i dont guess.
If i'm not welcome to your post, yes i guess.
That's 2 different things Wink

Anyways, sorry, Dgfred ... Dont hit, dont hit

No problems pal : Cool

. You are welcome to my post anytime Very Happy

.
I've played CC2 online since it came out, and played CC5 a few times
online too. I like campaigns, but my time and my opponent's time is
usually limited.
Thanks anyway for trying to help.

#19: Author: BobbyDazzler, Location: Manchester

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:12 pm
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you guys make very valid points, everyone knows that going against a real human opponent will always present the greatest challenge to a player, buy for someone like myself who likes a quick couple games when i come in from work, i am deeply impressed with the AI in these mods, theyre very challenging and as close to showing the tactical initiative of online opponents i have played, again i thank the developers for all their efforts on creating this AI..

#20: Author: ZAPPI4, Location: Belgium Liege

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:35 pm
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dgfred wrote:

What is the problem with liking the way this mod AI was done, besides
the personal issues that is???

Hum.

Than i dont like a moder personnaly is nothing about if i d like his work.
I suppose u are closer than Pzjager to speak like this.

If this question was posted by bobby on another mod forum, i replyed
as i did. There is nothing about my Pzjager personall feeling

#21: Author: BobbyDazzler, Location: Manchester

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:31 pm
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jus out of curiosity, as im relatively new to the forum, how do you earn points towards promotion??

#22: Author: dgfred, Location: N.C., USA

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:07 pm
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You get promoted by number of post. You'll get there in time, especially if
you like to surf the forums Wink

#23: Author: dgfred, Location: N.C., USA

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:12 pm
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ZAPPI4 wrote:

dgfred wrote:

What is the problem with liking the way this mod AI was done, besides
the personal issues that is???

Dang, give it a rest. Your post was confusing. We were discussing the AI's aggressiveness, then you post about h2h-if we want a challenge. Sorry if I
misunderstood your meaning.

#24: Author: flick,

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:17 am
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Love the AI too, been waiting an AGE for a challenge.

As for for playing against a human, that really sounds complicated and time consuming.

I can't wait to convert my old SDK campiagn to PZjagers updated version. II'm playing the submod, where Tiger tanks arrive right at the end.

#25: Author: Tippi-Simo, Location: Helsinki

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:19 pm
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Indeed, AI rocks here.
Glad that I got something to do when I spend my christmas in Lapland.
Nice challenge to play as germans.

#26: Author: flick,

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 7:53 pm
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I do find that the Stug-IIIF's and long Mark IV's, just don't have the punch.

#27: Author: dgfred, Location: N.C., USA

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 7:57 pm
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Yeah, not the above average German armor we are used to. The only real
problem I have is with the all-white maps... hard on the old eyes.

#28: Author: flick,

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:38 pm
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I assume that the panzer crews are tired and hungry, and that effects the're overall ability.

That just means, I have to set up my tanks/AT's within streets and in-between cover.

I've managed to ambush a few russian tanks that way, and really got satisfaction from beating them!

#29: Author: Tippi-Simo, Location: Helsinki

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:10 pm
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Quote:

Yeah, not the above average German armor we are used to. The only real
problem I have is with the all-white maps... hard on the old eyes.

Use sunglasses?
Or adjust monitor.

Quote:

I've managed to ambush a few russian tanks that way, and really got satisfaction from beating them!

Yeah, in this mod you really get that good feeling when you destroy russian tanks with your poor troops.

#30: Author: dgfred, Location: N.C., USA

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:49 pm
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[quote="Tippi-Simo"]

Quote:

Yeah, not the above average German armor we are used to. The only real
problem I have is with the all-white maps... hard on the old eyes.

Use sunglasses?
Or adjust monitor.

Very Happy

Adjusting doesn't help, maybe lasik surgery but nothing else works too good.

#31: Author: flick,

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:10 pm
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I've also noticed some (crude) co-ordination between tanks and infantry, in their attacks. Now that's never happened before in other mods.

#32: Author: Pzt_Kevin_dtn, Location: USA

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:37 am
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AI sucks in any mod. H2H play is where its at. You'll either flee in fear and run back to the security of playing the boring, predictabel AI, or you'll try to learn something from your first H2H experience and evolve into an addicted CC fighting machine.

#33: Author: flick,

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:22 am
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Er..I think you might be taking this a bit too seriously.

If I'm on a lunch break, i can't be messing around trying to find a human player or setting up the H2H.

Oh yes, learn some manners too.

#34: Author: dgfred, Location: N.C., USA

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:00 pm
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Pzt_Kevin_dtn wrote:

AI sucks in any mod. H2H play is where its at. You'll either flee in fear and run back to the security of playing the boring, predictabel AI, or you'll try to learn something from your first H2H experience and evolve into an addicted CC fighting machine.

Yeah Kevin your post do sometimes come off as confrontational. Can't
you find reliable opponents to play? I've said before that I would enjoy
some games with you in the near future, I even joined the Pzt Forum Wink

to keep up with you guys. Let me know some days/times you are usually available and we can get an operation, a couple of games or even a campaign
going : Cool

if you have the time. Best Regards, Greg

#35: Author: VonVolks,

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:03 pm
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Head to Head is best BUT only if you are playing a legit CC player.

People who do 10 second rushes, or map camping etc are rubbish. Its played for fun, not to win at all costs!

CC is my favourite game of all time (alongside EVE online which was awesome. but I stopped playing EVE, but never CC!!!) and campaigning H2H witha good opponent is fantastic. And thanks to ALL mod crew who make it such an ever improving and involving experience.

And to the real H2H fun CC'ers out there!

#36: Author: Pzt_Kevin_dtn, Location: USA

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:15 pm
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I do realize that someone who is newer to the game or less developed in their tactical skills can find joy playing the AI. I did so for years but eventually found it so boring that I couldn't stand it any longer. I left the game for about a year and then returned to it because its always been my all time favorite. But again I qucikly became bored with the AI and remembered why I left in the first place. So I decided I needed a bigger challenge and lept into the ranks of h2h play. Once you play the game h2h there is really no going back to the AI. The difference is night and day. I have learned so much from playing so many skilled players out there via h2h that the AI offers next to no challenge. I rarely play AI games anymore other than the new Wacht am Rhein and even then I'm already growing bored of playing it vs the AI.

But cheers to anyone who finds joy and a challenge in fighting the AI but as for me and my PC we left that camp long ago.

With regards to this subject and those mods that have proven to have a more challenging AI, I do agree that PJ has up'd the difficulty level with his mods of SDK and SOC. Even Wacht am Rhein is an improvement to the AI. But it eventually becomes counterproductive watching AI tanks sit and spin and AI inf crawl or charge in mass towards their deaths with no meaningful tactics.

#37: Author: Pzt_Kevin_dtn, Location: USA

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:20 pm
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dgfred wrote:

Pzt_Kevin_dtn wrote:

to keep up with you guys. Let me know some days/times you are usually available and we can get an operation, a couple of games or even a campaign
going : Cool

if you have the time. Best Regards, Greg

Yes, I can find reliable players to battle. i have several GC's going with various individuals.

I'd be happy to engage in some h2h play. I live in the US central time and am often online in Gamespy Arcade evenings and weekends. I look forward to the opportunity to play a few games and maybe even start an Op of GC if you're up to the challenge.

Cheers!

#38: Author: dgfred, Location: N.C., USA

Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:12 am
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Sure, I'll look for you in gamespy when I can play. : Cool

#39: Author: caribacey, Location: St Martin, Caribbean

Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:25 pm
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As I understand, the AI has not been touched in this mod. The changes we see come from map coding.
Hats off to Pzjager for this mod! This is one of the best CC mods, imho.

Rant on: Those that hijacked this thread over H2H are just plain rude!

#40: Author: Tippi-Simo, Location: Helsinki

Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:47 pm
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Sorry to post this, but peeps here were just so excited about this great new mod.
But hell, all those old gits had to come here and tear those wounds open again.
Give it a rest!
Fight somewhere else.
This is about SDKDK!!

#41: Author: flick,

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:28 am
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I think dgfred assumed that we were calling the new AI agressive and suberb on it's own..when infact, we were saying it was suberb and agressive in contrast to the original AI.

Of course nothing can compare to a human player, we are just happy to that the computer AI, know's which direction to move! Razz

#42: Author: dgfred, Location: N.C., USA

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:49 am
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flick wrote:

I think dgfred assumed that we were calling the new AI agressive and suberb on it's own..when infact, we were saying it was suberb and agressive in contrast to the original AI.

Of course nothing can compare to a human player, we are just happy to that the computer AI, know's which direction to move! Razz

Hey it wasn't me, I love this mod and the AI : Cool

#43: Author: Pzt_Kevin_dtn, Location: USA

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 2:48 am
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flick wrote:

Well put.

And Dgfred - I'm still keeping an eye out for you in GameSpy to play some h2h.

#44: Author: Roel,

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:47 am
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Tippi-Simo wrote:

This is about SDKDK!!

Back to the subject then:

Superb and aggressive AI? I think it has improved compared to earlier CC mods/versions ... but at the cost of giving the AI certain tweaks and advantages. So nothing fundamentally different from what is done for many years in many games. "Better" AI at the cost of realism.

Challenging for a human player to play against? Come on, seriously... Rolling Eyes

#45: Author: flick,

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:02 am
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Roel wrote:

Tippi-Simo wrote:

This is about SDKDK!!

Er..did you read my post? Nobody is saying it's a rival for a human player, just an improvement on the computer.

#46: Re: Superb & agressive AI hats off to the developers! Author: Roel,

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 2:03 pm
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Hi Flick,

Yes, I have! As well as the first post of this thread that explains its subject:

BobbyDazzler wrote:

i have to express the utmost praise to the developers for this mod, the AI engine that you guys have used is brutally agressive, after nearly 10 years of playing CC, I have finally found a mod that offers a genuine challenge and is a joy to play!!

Hence my reply...

Roel

#47: Author: dgfred, Location: N.C., USA

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 2:29 pm
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Pzt_Kevin_dtn wrote:

flick wrote:

Well put.

And Dgfred - I'm still keeping an eye out for you in GameSpy to play some h2h.

I'll be around sometime Wink

, right now my daughter (1 Cool

is in the middle of her senior year of basketball and it is taking up alot of my evenings.

@Roel- Do you not find the AI challenging in this mod??? Have you played
a campaign?

#48: Author: Roel,

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:52 pm
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dgfred wrote:

@Roel- Do you not find the AI challenging in this mod??? Have you played
a campaign?

Hi dgfred,

I've been playing Panzerjägers mods since the first SDK came out. Finished SDK AI campaign (when I still believed the AI could make a difference), started playing SOC AI campaign (stopped after a couple of turns for the above stated reason), played some battles of SDK:DK to get a brief impression, but once more... So I confess: I didn't actually finish the latest SDK:DK campign. But honestly? No, the AI is not a challenge.
Take a look at http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=5086.

To be clear: I really don't pretend to be the expert here. But basically, it comes down to this: don't mind too much about the Soviet armor, and stay out of its LOS. Concentrate on killing the infantry. Do not slow it down unless you can inflict real carnage, but instead let it outrun the armor (which happens frequently due to the low movement/high bog values). Make sure you are in defilade position, the AI only targets directly visible units (except mortars/barrages of course). If necessary, at start, waste his barrages/Katyushas by exposing a bogus unit. As a general rule, the AI goes for the nearest VL, more or less in a straight line. So it shouldn't be too difficult to find good positions vis-a-vis the AI's line of approach (personally, I prefer defilade with little cover over direct LOS with much cover). HMGs, 2cm Guns, etc, those are the kind of weapons that generate the most benefits.
And then there's the usual stuff: take back VLs after the AI has moved on to the next one (you may have noticed that the AI almost always attacks one VL at a time). Place your units at the back of the house instead of in front (again, the indirect approach), preferably with a leader nearby. Use the 'spotted by one = spotted by all' thing to keep track of the enemy units.
And the armor? Well, after taking care of the infantry, then you can try to take out some of those. But I never go all-out on this. An immo result is already great, you can sneak up to the vehicle and capture it when time expires. And again: never start a gun duel unless you're certain to have firepower superiority and/or good kill chances.

The above is not a guarantee that every battle will go as planned. But it will allow you to win the campaign with little worries.
And let's face it: most of this is not the mod's fault; it's just that the AI is inherently weak, especially in attack. This is a given for all mods. That's why over the last 3 years, I've been playing H2H campaigns exclusively...

Now H2H is a different thing: we played the SDK campaign both ways. Each time, the German player forfeited the game after 10 turns or so, because in most battles, he was simply played off the map in one turn; the Soviet player basically moves as he pleases... You can imagine we no longer considered playing SOC afterwards either Smile

. Didn't play H2H SDK:DK yet, but I fear it will be the same thing (let me know if not!).

This said, credit given where credit is due: the atmosphere of the Panzerjäger mods is very good (as I already made clear in earlier threads). The variety of teams is also a plus, as is the general level of detail/perfection of the mod. It would no doubt be playing it a lot more if only the H2H play would be more balanced...
And it's great that there are still a couple of dedicated mod makers out there to provide us our daily bread Smile

You are of course free to disagree. It's just an opinion.

Cheers,
Roel

#49: Re: Superb & agressive AI hats off to the developers! Author: flick,

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:51 pm
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Roel wrote:

Hi Flick,

Yes, I have! As well as the first post of this thread that explains its subject:

BobbyDazzler wrote:

Hence my reply...

Roel

Ah I see, that makes sense now. : Cool

#50: Author: dgfred, Location: N.C., USA

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:31 pm
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@Roel, I see exactly what you are saying and understand. But just by using these h2h and normal tactics against the AI also shows just how different these mods are to the usual ones right? I hope nobody here believes it is like playing a human opponent, but still this is alot more fun and challenging vs the AI than just about any others.

#51: Author: Roel,

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:31 pm
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dgfred wrote:

@Roel, I see exactly what you are saying and understand. But just by using these h2h and normal tactics against the AI also shows just how different these mods are to the usual ones right? I hope nobody here believes it is like playing a human opponent, but still this is alot more fun and challenging vs the AI than just about any others.

Hi dgfred,

I agree with you that the SDK/SOC series indeed have an 'improved' AI (the tweaks used are open for debate); AFAIK, only TT's CC4 Vetbob did something similar. And yes, the H2H tactics work well in the SDK/SOC series as well. But to me, these are just sound tactics in any situation, it's just that the predictable AI makes it so much easier to use them. Against the AI, you can be fairly sure to do well. Against a seasoned H2H opponent however, you could get your butt kicked all the same Smile

.

Many people choose to play the AI for various reasons; let's say that for them, SDK:DK is indeed a good choice.

Cheers,
Roel

#52: Author: dgfred, Location: N.C., USA

Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:42 am
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You are exactly right Roel. Thanks for the tips too : Cool

#53: Author: Pzt_Kevin_dtn, Location: USA

Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:22 pm
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Roel wrote:

dgfred wrote:

@Roel- Do you not find the AI challenging in this mod??? Have you played
a campaign?

Now H2H is a different thing: we played the SDK campaign both ways. Each time, the German player forfeited the game after 10 turns or so, because in most battles, he was simply played off the map in one turn; the Soviet player basically moves as he pleases... You can imagine we no longer considered playing SOC afterwards either Smile

You are of course free to disagree. It's just an opinion.

Cheers,
Roel

The SOC mod is actually better for H2H than SDK. PJ somehow changed the core data to make the Germans a lot tougher in SOC than they are in SDK. Their only problem is their low level of Ammo makes it difficult to counterattack or go on the offensive. You have to be very selective. I think PJ was looking at updating SDK with the same soldier data that he created for SOC and SDKDK. But that was some time ago. Not sure if he still has same plans in motion.

.

#54: Author: dgfred, Location: N.C., USA

Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:51 pm
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I don't think he is.

#55: Author: Infidel,

Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 10:59 pm
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Well, I'm a long time CC fan and player, and over the last year I've played many mods against the AI and it's been very boring watching tanks get stuck behind buildings battle after battle. I'm now downloading SDKDK to give it a go, but also, I've just today installed Gamespy Arcade so I can finally get playing H2H like I've been meaning to since returning to CC a year ago after a few years away. With the improvements in the internet and broadband in recent years it seems a good time to join the H2H action without being disconnected every 5 minutes. I havn't managed to get a game on H2H though yet, there's hardly anyone on there when I've checked. (I hope I can find some opponants and any tips on finding some would be welcome.)
Meanwhile, I'll finish downloading this new mod and see for myself what the AI is like, but I'm sure H2H will hypnotise me once I get into it, as people have said already, playing another human must be a hundred times better (ie harder) than any AI, no matter how good that AI.
Anyway, not much else to say, other than H2H here I come, I hope it gets busier as I check it out more as there was only about 5 people on there earlier, but I'm sure it does at times.

Here's to Close Combat... one of the best, if not the best game ever to be released on PC, be you against AI or humans regardless.

#56: Author: flick,

Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:18 pm
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I've had CC for two years, and I've played it nearly everyday..

#57: Author: Roel,

Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:40 pm
—

Pzt_Kevin_dtn wrote:

Hi Pzt_Kevin_dtn,

Are you saying that the default GC of SOC is playable H2H (ie with good chances for both players?)? That would be good news.
Did you already finish an SOC H2H campaign? I'm interested in hearing your remarks.

Cheers,
Roel

#58: Author: Pzt_Kevin_dtn, Location: USA

Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 9:45 pm
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I would not conclude that the GC for SOC is evenly matched for h2h giving both sides a chance at a victory.... But I do believe the Germans are tougher in SOC and that custom Ops can be designed from SOC for even play. But typically such custom ops would always require the Germans to be on the defensive side of the Op because of the shortage of Ammo. Its just too tough to engage in a true offensive assault when you are short on ammo.

No I did not finish a complete GC in SOC since I had broken so many holes in my opponents lines that he "unofficially" surrendered. We were somewhere around 70-80 battles into the GC.

Note also that I have played quite a bit of SDK h2h but I think the Germans are weaker in current SDK when compared to SOC.

#59: Author: Infidel,

Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 2:37 pm
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Well, I'm downloading this again to play vs AI. My internet just isn't good enough to play H2H to I'm stuck with single player, and have been playing the new CC:WAR, but find the AI absolutely awful despite the claims it's been improved. If I remember correctly this mod had far better AI than WAR.

#60: Author: flick,

Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 7:50 pm
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The AI is pretty sharp..the secret ingredient to good AI, apparently, is in the map-making.

When I play other mods, I wince when I see a huge battlefield, because I know that it's going to be a SLOW battle.

#61: Re: Superb & agressive AI hats off to the developers! Author: 0202243,

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:22 pm
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i haven't played for about a year now... gonna restart my cc with tis mod Twisted Evil

#62: Re: Superb & agressive AI hats off to the developers! Author: LoneRebel,

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:49 pm
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My thoughts on the AI. I am not sure if PJ improved the AI itself, since I do not know if CC's AI is even possible to mod (the same way no one can figure out how to make the attacker attack from the proper exit VL). Someone said that it's the map coding that led to improved AI performance; I don't know if this is true.

All I know is what I've observed, and I observed some interesting things. One, although we make fun of the way the AI moves vehicles, it actually seems better in maneuvering them in this mod than a human player would be. SDK maps are not good for tanks in general - it's easy to get bogged in snow and PJ loves to put stones and rocks all over his maps. I find that when I'm ordering my tanks to move even a short 50 meter distance, they sometimes refuse to move in a straight line to the destination, instead turning left and right, making themselves easy targets, and generally screwing up.

But the AI almost never has this problem; when it wants to move its tanks, they get to where they want to go, even through terrain and narrow passages that I thought were impossible. Consider that the next time you feel like making fun of the AI and its "pointless spinning tanks."

Next, a previous poster said that you must try to kill the Soviet infantry without being seen by the tanks. Um, yeah, that's obvious. It's also easier said than done. The AI often moves tanks and infantry together (often with a greater degree of precision than achievable by a human player). Alternatively, the AI will send its infantry forward, and keep its tanks back where they still have line of sight of the infantry. This means that when you open fire on the infantry, they will see you, and then the tanks will destroy you. It's actually not very easy to separate the tanks from the infantry in this mod.

#63: Re: Superb & agressive AI hats off to the developers! Author: dgfred, Location: N.C., USA

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:58 pm
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No... can't change the AI. But I believe it is the map/vl coding.

#64: Re: Superb & agressive AI hats off to the developers! Author: Tejszd, Location: Canada

Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:16 am
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The AI code can not be changed but in some mods units are assigned the wrong AI type to make them behave better/differently. Example; assign an mg team gun AI so they do not move (much if at all) after deployment or assign half track to infantry to make them faster/more aggressively.

Close Combat Series -> Die Kampfgruppen

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