Morale/Timer preference for GJS 7.3 GC |
15 min, Morale "on" |
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50% |
[ 5 ] |
15 min, Morale "off" |
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10% |
[ 1 ] |
20 min, Morale "on" |
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20% |
[ 2 ] |
20 min, Morale "off |
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10% |
[ 1 ] |
more than 20 min, Morale "on" |
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10% |
[ 1 ] |
more than 20 min, Morale "off" |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
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Total Votes : 10 |
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Drizzt
Rep: 121 votes: 9
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Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:43 am Post subject: Re: GJS 7.3 Morale and Timer settings? |
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crewman wrote (View Post):
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Wow, great work there ScnelleMeyer!
if I'm understanding correctly ... if # BGs that start on a friendly depot map can only reform on maps linked to starting map by friendly depots
is set at 0 ... then BG's will return after being disbanded, when Recycle Disbanded BGs option is set at 1
Thanks too Drizzt!
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Exactly. To avoid possible problems set also this option in this way (it's already in this way in your mod, if I remember well):
# Maximum distance from starting map a BG can look for a supply depot to reform on (-1 for unlimited)
-1
Drizzt |
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crewman
Rep: 17.8 votes: 1
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Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:52 am Post subject: Re: GJS 7.3 Morale and Timer settings? |
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Thanks very much Drizzt!
This is a huge development, and although 7.3 was to be final version ... having BG's recycle after disbandment will allow players to use Morale "off" option for the GC and Ops. And works for Morale "on" of course.
Since I believe the GC should be played with Morale "off" ... I think it's best to make a 7.4 version with your guys' fix for Recycled BG's option.
Thanks a million ScnelleMeyer and Drizzt! |
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Drizzt
Rep: 121 votes: 9
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Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 2:01 am Post subject: Re: GJS 7.3 Morale and Timer settings? |
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No, no wait: I have tested what Scnellemeyer said and the allied Bg has returned yes, but it has returned where it has been disbanded (it has returned on an axis Big supply depot!) occupying that map in a completely "innatural" way. No, this is not a good solution, in my opinion.
Drizzt
P.S. So it continues to be valid what I have written some posts ago about the central role of supply route in LSA in relation to the return of the Bgs (Bgs returns if they have a supply route because they are in their own big supply depot maps), because this option:
"# BGs that start on a friendly depot map can only reform on maps linked to starting map by friendly depots"
In my opinion should be left to 1 considering what I have tested. |
Last edited by Drizzt on Sat Feb 13, 2016 3:05 am; edited 3 times in total |
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crewman
Rep: 17.8 votes: 1
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Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 2:06 am Post subject: Re: GJS 7.3 Morale and Timer settings? |
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Oh, that is not a good solution. I misunderstood that recycle BG's was now working correctly.
I'll continue with 7.3 as final version, unless somehow recycle BG's works as expected.
Thanks Drizzt |
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Drizzt
Rep: 121 votes: 9
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Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 2:12 am Post subject: Re: GJS 7.3 Morale and Timer settings? |
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Yes but at least one thing it's clear: it continues to be valid what I have written(/tested) some posts ago about the central role of supply route in LSA in relation to the return of the Bgs: Bgs return if they have a supply route because they are in their own big supply depot maps if "Recycle Disbanded BGs (0 = Never come back, 1 = Return next day)" option is set to 1.
It's anyway better than nothing.
Drizzt |
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ScnelleMeyer
Rep: 191.6 votes: 18
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Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 4:13 am Post subject: Re: GJS 7.3 Morale and Timer settings? |
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Quote:
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These setting causes a disbanded BG to reform on its starting map regardless of supply depot present there or not:
IE it can reform on a map that is out of supply.
# BGs that start on a friendly depot map can only reform on maps linked to starting map by friendly depots
0
# Maximum distance from starting map a BG can look for a supply depot to reform on (-1 for unlimited)
-1
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Quote:
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Using the following values even BGs that are disbanded while cut off from supply will reappear (I tested this on operations) :
Morale was ON.
# Recycle Disbanded BGs (0 = Never come back, 1 = Return next day)
1
# BGs that start on a friendly depot map can only reform on maps linked to starting map by friendly depots
1
# Maximum distance from starting map a BG can look for a supply depot to reform on (-1 for unlimited)
6
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Here the BG will need to start the OPS/Campaign on a Supply depot map to reform when disbanded.
BG will then reform on its starting supply depot. |
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Drizzt
Rep: 121 votes: 9
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Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 4:25 am Post subject: Re: GJS 7.3 Morale and Timer settings? |
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Yes ScnelleMeyer, but the problem are battlegorups that don't start on their big supply depots. In TLD a problem like this doens't exist (I mean with the option we speak about set to 1). In LSA we seem obliged "to do a choice" (the less worse choice about options, and/or rework ops/campaigns carefully keeping in mind these things).
Anyway, as it works for now, best choice is:
# Recycle Disbanded BGs (0 = Never come back, 1 = Return next day)
1
# BGs that start on a friendly depot map can only reform on maps linked to starting map by friendly depots
1
# Maximum distance from starting map a BG can look for a supply depot to reform on (-1 for unlimited)
-1
Then the campaigns/ops they must be reworked (if/when necessary) to let the battlegroups to return (if you have reason). Considering that in LSA exist static battlegroups, maybe it's not a so forbidding/denaturalizing rework.
Drizzt |
Last edited by Drizzt on Sat Feb 13, 2016 4:37 am; edited 3 times in total |
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ScnelleMeyer
Rep: 191.6 votes: 18
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Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 4:35 am Post subject: Re: GJS 7.3 Morale and Timer settings? |
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I understand Drizzt. To bad Matrix chose to change it like this in LSA. |
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Drizzt
Rep: 121 votes: 9
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Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 4:45 am Post subject: Re: GJS 7.3 Morale and Timer settings? |
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I'm thinking... using wisely this option : "# Maximum distance from starting map a BG can look for a supply depot to reform on (-1 for unlimited)" (not "-1" value: it must be decided carefully. Probably 1 or 2, not more)
and reworking the grand campaign (and ops if necessary) adding a big depot for allied paratropers and putting german troops on their big depots maybe all can work.
Of course, as I have said, it can be a bit a denaturalizing rework (about mod), but it can be managed. After all, option above it's excellent to add more big depots with separated Bgs entry zones (like with allied paratroopers towards regular troops on the beaches).
Drizzt |
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Pete
Rep: 118.1 votes: 12
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Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 8:36 pm Post subject: Re: GJS 7.3 Morale and Timer settings? |
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Interesting observations you have posted here. The problem I have when testing Ops in the Rhineland mod is that axis paratrooper battle groups do not return at all. Other BG types return the next turn. Do you guys have the same problem?
Of course, I could change the paratroopers to infantry type bg's but that would not be an entirely satisfactory solution. |
Dulce Bellum Inexpertis
(War is delightful to those who have no experience of it.)
Our facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/buckandpete/
Our website: https://themodsection.net/ |
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ScnelleMeyer
Rep: 191.6 votes: 18
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Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:56 pm Post subject: Re: GJS 7.3 Morale and Timer settings? |
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That is strange Pete. I have done tests in stock LSA with Allied AB before and they came back.
Tested just now with German Fallschirmjager BG and they came back too. - I believe the settings for BGs return is a generic setting affecting all BGs in play. |
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Drizzt
Rep: 121 votes: 9
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Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 10:22 pm Post subject: Re: GJS 7.3 Morale and Timer settings? |
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Pete wrote (View Post):
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Interesting observations you have posted here. The problem I have when testing Ops in the Rhineland mod is that axis paratrooper battle groups do not return at all. Other BG types return the next turn. Do you guys have the same problem?
Of course, I could change the paratroopers to infantry type bg's but that would not be an entirely satisfactory solution.
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About your question I agree with ScnelleMeyer.
Could you say to us where are as starting position the Bgs that you say can return (they are all on their big supply depot: in this case I agree with you)? And how you have set the 3 options we're talking about?
And another thing, with this option "# BGs that start on a friendly depot map can only reform on maps linked to starting map by friendly depots " set to 0 sure they all return, the problem it's that they seem to return on their starting positions (and these starting positions they can be very weird for their return).
Drizzt |
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Pete
Rep: 118.1 votes: 12
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Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 11:32 pm Post subject: Re: GJS 7.3 Morale and Timer settings? |
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Just played an Op without FJ bg. The bg not returning after rout is a bg starting on a friendly map without supply depot and which starting map was occupied after it routed. This was also the case with the FJ bg's. A different bg started on a friendly map without depot and did return to a depot map. So the problem is not linked to bg type.
Settings I am using:
# Recycle Disbanded BGs (0 = Never come back, 1 = Return next day)
1
# BGs retreat on rout (0 = disband on rout, 1 = retreat on rout)
1
# BGs that start on a friendly depot map can only reform on maps linked to starting map by friendly depots
1 ( I will change this to 0 and try again)
# Maximum distance from starting map a BG can look for a supply depot to reform on (-1 for unlimited)
6 (Should be sufficient but I am changing it to -1) |
Dulce Bellum Inexpertis
(War is delightful to those who have no experience of it.)
Our facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/buckandpete/
Our website: https://themodsection.net/ |
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Drizzt
Rep: 121 votes: 9
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Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 11:56 pm Post subject: Re: GJS 7.3 Morale and Timer settings? |
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Pete wrote (View Post):
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Just played an Op without FJ bg. The bg not returning after rout is a bg starting on a friendly map without supply depot and which starting map was occupied after it routed.
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Considering how you have set the options (and it's the best choice how you have set them), this is normal: unfortunately it works in this way in LSA (in TLD Bgs return) and this is the heart of the problem we're speaking about (and in my opinion it's a bug).
Pete wrote (View Post):
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A different bg started on a friendly map without depot and did return to a depot map.
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I have never seen a thing like this in eight or more tests (so it has happened to me the opposite: they have never returned). Only with "# BGs that start on a friendly depot map can only reform on maps linked to starting map by friendly depots" set to 0 the Bgs out from big supply depot maps they have returned (but, as I have said, setting it to 0 has a decisive disavantage for the gameplay).
Pete wrote (View Post):
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So the problem is not linked to bg type.
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Yes, I agree with you (this is what I meant saying "I agree with ScnelleMeyer").
Drizzt
EDIT P.S. Considering that what I have quoted above and in the middle are two opposite behaviors despite the same situation described by you, if you have reason, of course there is also the possibility that the bug has a logic that we can't find simply changing the options (I mean: it can be for example a casual bug and/or a bug with a logic that needs some specific circumstances hided in the code to show itself). |
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Pete
Rep: 118.1 votes: 12
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Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 1:10 am Post subject: Re: GJS 7.3 Morale and Timer settings? |
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# BGs that start on a friendly depot map can only reform on maps linked to starting map by friendly depots
1
Changed 1 to 0 and now the bg in question returns next day to the starting map.... which is not a supply depot. Not what I am looking for in my Operations. |
Dulce Bellum Inexpertis
(War is delightful to those who have no experience of it.)
Our facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/buckandpete/
Our website: https://themodsection.net/ |
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Drizzt
Rep: 121 votes: 9
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Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 1:37 am Post subject: Re: GJS 7.3 Morale and Timer settings? |
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Pete wrote (View Post):
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# BGs that start on a friendly depot map can only reform on maps linked to starting map by friendly depots
1
Changed 1 to 0 and now the bg in question returns next day to the starting map.... which is not a supply depot. Not what I am looking for in my Operations.
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Exactly what I meant. |
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stiener
Rep: 46.4 votes: 3
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Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 1:15 pm Post subject: Re: GJS 7.3 Morale and Timer settings? |
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interesting Gents |
WHEN THE PIN IS PULLED "MR GRENADE"IS NOT OUR FRIEND ! |
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