I have some mixed feelings about this book. It’s a memoir, starting in the late 1930 th with the young Voss. The first half of the book we get to know the family, aunts, uncles, grand… and the whole family. He paints the picture rather well, why a few was Hitlerites, and some supported the idea of grate Germany but found Hitler vulgar. The once that rejected Hitler as a clown and dangerous. I found this foirst half a bit boring, not because it was poor written, absolutely not. Its well written, but because I probably was fooled by the book title… I expected more of the battle and soldier stories than a costume novel… But, after almost tossing away the book, things started happening. Voss joined the SS, the 11 th mountain regiment. He was stationed in north Finland.
So what did I think of the book, 3/5. If one would like the first half, explaining how the germans felt about things in the late 30- th and early 40 th then it is better than I lead you to think. It do explain why some joined the SS and it turns the black and white into colourful grey tones.. The second half of the book is much better, far better. The author is an excellent writer, and that’s not always so in memoirs..
I also take the liberty of posting the book cover text here:
As it joins the ranks of the books in this genre, Black Edelweiss makes a unique and very important contribution. It is a true, personal account of the author’s war years, first at school and then with the Waffen-SS, which he joined early in 1943 at the age of seventeen. For a year and a half, the author fought as a machine gunner in SS-Mountain Infantry Regiment 11 "Reinhard Heydrich," mainly in the arctic and sub-arctic reaches of Soviet Karelia and Finland, and later at the Western frontier of the Third Reich. The characters in the story are real, and the conversations and actions are recounted to the best of his ability from the short distance at which he wrote the manuscript in 1945–46. Apart from the piercing insights into the question of why the German soldier fought as he did, what makes this book truly unique is the author’s anguished, yet resolute examination of the dialectic between the honorable and valorous comportment of his comrades and the fundamentally reprehensible conduct of about 35,000 men behind the front lines who nevertheless wore the same uniform. During his captivity, the author was assigned for a time as a clerk to a US Army Judge Advocate General’s Corps officer, and in the performance of his administrative duties, the author had access to the mounting reams of documentation of the Holocaust. His growing recognition of the involvement of Waffen-SS personnel in the monstrous crimes of that process caused him to dig deeply into his soul, to examine his most intimate and private motivations and thoughts, and to reevaluate the most basic assumptions of his life to that point. The author captured this process and the result in the notes which became this book.
[apart from Russia] has any of these countries been pillaged for 10 years?
Yes, I have a candidate that "matches" that. Germany after WW2… Germany was bombed into crap up to 1945, and what remained of its industry was pillaged and stolen.
the problem [for Russia] was not in war we had but in lost connections in ex-republics..
Yes, I also have a candidate to match that. I suggest we look at Germany after ww2… :
Large arias was taken by the allies, see map. What remained of Germany was divided in 4 zones after WW2. Then they formed 2 states, one capitalistic and one Soviet satellite. Talking about lost connections, Germany was divided by the “iron curtain”, … And 11 [eleven] million Germans was taken as POW’s or slave labours. Many of them did not return to Germany until Stalin died.
So there you have the comparison, the candidate is west Germany after WW2… From the end of WW2 in 1945 up to 1960, is 15 years. In year 1960 Germany had a life expectancy of 69,5 years. This made Germany rank at the top in the world, at place 18 .
Today , Putins has been in power for 15 years and Russia has a life expectancy of 69 years. This makes Russia rank 124 in the world among the worst preforming countries… After 15 years.....
So if we compare: in the year 1960 Germany = 69,5 thus outperformed Supa KaPutins Russias in 2012 at 69 years….
Now, I argues that the reason why kaPutin has taken control over the media, is because Russian's would be upset if they know how bad Russia is in a comparison..
Oh , i forgot to mention: Today, (2012) Germany has a life expectancy of 81 years..
Dick Cheney and his henchman Wolfowitz are pieces of shit and pathological liars. Here we go again with the comparisons between U.S. aggression in Iraq and Russian aggression in Ukraine. It's not a valid analogy.
I agree DJ. We have to thank a diversified and free media for that. No? There are no free media in Russia to do the same there.
There is also a profound difference between the USA wars and the Russian wars. Russia invades Afghan, why, for making it a Soviet satellite = empire buliding. USA invades Afghan, why, for Taliban dint hand over bin ladin. US have no intention of making Afghan its 51 st state. Russia invades Crimea, why, to make it a part of the Russian empire = empire buliding. USA invaded Iraq, why, … for whatever stupid reasons it was not to make it into the n’th state of USA.. Russia in Ukraine = empire buliding. Etc etc..
Abaut sanctions. Look at the result of US sanctions vs Japan and the road to PH. What will be the result of serious sanctions vs russia?
After reading the book by Jordbruen Rolf Ivar that I talk about in the previous post. I was curious about the stories of mistreatment of German pow’s by Americans at the end of the war. So I decided to read a bit about that.
I have only found it in German, not English… But I may well be published in English under another name or something.. ISBN-10: 3442153239 The book name in English would be “Prisoners of war”
Okay, well… The book, 400+ pages. It only deals with Germans taken prisoner under the second world war, and directly after.
About 11 mil Germans was taken as POW’s and some 800 thousand civilians too, woman child and old people. Knopp starts by describing how the marine and airmen was treated in England in the early war. He has many sources, interviews, memoirs, letters sent from the POW camps, IRC documents of inspections, as well as the POW camps archives. The Germans was treated with much respect in England, that surprised the POW’s. They was accommodated in rather good camps, and the food was so-so but it seems the guards eat the same. Then they stated to ship the POW’s to Canada, and there it was fine to, there were some issues at times but nothing of importance. . A rather large number of German POW’s who came there (England/Canada) early in the war, never returned to Germany, but had found a girl or a job and stayed.
The POWs sent to USA, as they entered the war was lucky. This was the Africa veterans, and U-boot people. The food was silly good, they never feed that much in Germany. The American prison guards were treating the German privates better than the German officers had ever done… The Germans was allowed to work, at first there was 1 guard in 10 POW’s, soon it was just nominal guards, 1 in 90 POW’s. Withness of very laxed relation, where the guard passed his rife to the POW’s as he get of the truck or whatever.. POW’s worked on farms, was treated very well by the families there. They was allowed there own POW’news paper, made by the POW’s without any form of censoring. Libraries, move theatres etc. Good sanitation… 5 star hotel sort of…
Russia, that was another story. Walking on foot , ppl lagging after was shot, beaten, nothing to eat. The camps was horrible. Sanitation was lacking. About half the Germans in Russian camps was killed or died. Many spent 10 years or more as slave workers. There was also the civilian German prisoners, many taken at the end of the war. IRC estimates 800 thousand, of the many woman and young girls. There stories was extra painful.
As the war came to an end, and the Americans entered the concentration camps, there attitudes changed. There was mistreatment of the Germans taken at the end of the war. They were held without roof over there heads, thousands on mud fields with no sanitation and hardly any food. There was no systematic death camps, some good camps some really awful. Cases of sadism and shooting POW’s, beating etc, though not systematic or authorized. The Americans was unprepared for the huge numbers of POW’s and little was prepared, the numbers dead was rather tiny. The POW’s in France had a rough time.
Well, what did I think of the book? I suppose the interest of the subject makes me appreciate the book more. It was easy to read and well structured. So I found it good.
Vladimir Zjirinovskij twice vice chairman of the Russian Duma. He’s a colonel in the Russian army. Founder and leader of Liberal Democrat Party of Russia. (na, hes not a democrat)
This guys agenda is to retake the former Russian empire borders, and beyond. That includes Finland, Baltics, Poland, Georgia and Ukraine etc etc and even Alaska, even India!
And when I reading the book, I fined that the author startes the book with qoutes of Dugin, see the first attachment named Dugin.gif.
Dima mate, I just cant help it, but it feels just a tiny little bit like you have not read the book at all. Because the book contradicts most you argued here. I also found this:
(qouts are in the images attached) 1. The author believes that Gorbatjev and the commy should have done what Jeltsin did, liberal economy.. 2. The author thinks Russian is playing a blame game, tin foils en masse.. (green aria) 3. (In the first part of yellow, he talks about Jeltsin era) Jeltsin created an economic system that was chock resistant, imperfekt but yet... Then, came the worrying signes... Putin started to reverse things… 4. The free media was destroyed in the early 2000. (blue) 5. He also suggests that the “autonomy” of the regions is just a chasm. 6. The author argues that Russia is lagging behind 50 years, compared with the developed world. . (red)
again you should take at least 3 points 1990-2000-2012 and then you will see that life expendancy in Russia was going down till 2005 and then starting to return to 1990 level..
In the image attached we have Russian life expectancy, I have taken the liberty of marking out the Jeltsin era, as well as the kaPutin era. I also made a trend line, that we call the “Jeltsin trend”.
sorry to disappoint you but there was Jeltsin and Gorbachev Russia 22 years ago . so whom to blame? .
And here we have the usual blame game of the Russian media/politicians. If the car doesn’t start in the morning, the average Russian say “its that dammed Jeltsins fault”.. And now if more than half of Africans countries move ahead Russia in the desirable indexes Russians collectively say, “its that dammed …. fault.”. Remember, not to hold kaputin accountable, he’s only been in power for 15 years…
We heard it a million times, “Its all Jeltsin’s fault and/or Gorbatjev’s fault.”
Is that really so, is it true or is it just a myth, or is the truth some ware in-between?
I have a theory, that Jeltsin did both good and bad. Lets see.. As we have debated before, childbirth and that translates to child mortality.. Its rather important indicators as they are not only tragic but also affect the life expectancy. They show how well the health care in a country works, as well as how the state manage to take care of the less fortunate giving everyone a “equal” start in life...
I attach a image of child mortality, and marks the Jeltsin and kaputin era on it.. WHO data.
{...] stats showing growth for Russia in last years? and again, that's not because of great Putin but because of the good prices for natural resources.
So you do agree afterall.. Kaputin.
I was comming to the russian economy, but is saving that for some pages.
A country like Russia is simply too large and complicated to pigeon hole with statistics.
Where do you get that idea from…
Here is a list of the 10 largest countries in the world, life expectancy 1990 and 2012:
Year; country; life expectancy in years:
In 1990 Russia had an average life expectancy of 69 years. In 2012 Russia had an average life expectancy of 69 years.
Russia has not increased its life expectancy 69-69=0
In 1990 Canada had an average life expectancy of 77 years. In 2012 Canada had an average life expectancy of 82 years.
Lets see, the worlds second largest country is Canada it has increased its life expectancy 82-77=5 years while Russia has not.
In 1990 China had an average life expectancy of 69 years. In 2012 China had an average life expectancy of 75 years. China increased its life expectancy with +6 years.
In 1990 USA had an average life expectancy of 75 years. In 2012 USA had an average life expectancy of 79 years. USA with +4.
In 1990 Brazil had an average life expectancy of 66 years. In 2012 Brazil had an average life expectancy of 74 years. Brazil with 8 years… Or as we say, 8-0 to Brazil… Do they need a putin you think?
In 1990 Australia had an average life expectancy of 76 years. In 2012 Australia had an average life expectancy of 81 years. The grate nation of …. +5 years…
In 1990 India had an average life expectancy of 58 years. In 2012 India had an average life expectancy of 66 years. India managed +8 years…
In 1990 Argentina had an average life expectancy of 73 years. In 2012 Argentina had an average life expectancy of 76 years. Hmm, +3…
In 1990 Kazakhstan under Soviet/russian rule had an average life expectancy of 58 years. In 2012 the free Kazakhstan had an average life expectancy of 66 years. Upz, the former Soviet state, has increased its life expectancy with 8 years, to Russia 0 years… Do they need a putin too?
In 1990 Algeria had an average life expectancy of 68 years. In 2012 Algeria had an average life expectancy of 72 years. Algeria + 4. Interesting as it is, Russia is outperformed by more than half of Africa…
Funny (or tragic) as it is, ALL the worlds largest countries is showing progress, except…. Kaputins Russia.
What’s next, maybe a map showing all Russians neighbours progress in life expectancy… That ought to say something..
Don't you think that having almost 20% less corruption in 3 years is a good results?
No, it doesn’t say Russia has 20 % less corruption. Where can you see that?
But the question is… As Putin came to power in 1999, now its 15 years later… The country he rules over is ranked at 35 from the bottom, or 48 at the bottom as thee worst corrupt countries in the world…
And you think Putin is doing fine after 15 years in power?
We must try to get to know Russia a bit more. As they are so eager to spread there superior lifestyle, culture, technology, economics as well as political life.
I posted this before in another thread, but its here it belongs:
Let’s look at another subject, where Putin-Russia stands out.
Corruption!
Russia is ranked 35 in the world on corruption. That’s not bad is it? Na, see, being No:1 is not the best, but the worst. Being at the end of the list at rank 180 would be the best.
There Putin-Russia is at Rank 35, amongst Sierra Leone, and Timor…
Actually Pakistan is at rank 43, thus outperforms Russia… Bangladesh at rank 45, Uganda at 46, Nigeria at rank 47… Now there’s some countries that Putin Russia should have as role models.
has any of these countries were pillaged for 10 years?
Yes actually. Here is a list of countries that was at war during the timeframe… Lets see how they fair compared to Putin-Russia…
A reminder of Russian development in life expectancy from 1990 to 2012:
In 1990 Russia had an average life expectancy of 69 years. In 2012 Russia had an average life expectancy of 69 years.
Putin Russia had 0 [zero] life expectancy increase in 22 years.
In 1990 Iraq had an average life expectancy of 69 years. In 2012 Iraq had an average life expectancy of 71 years.
In this timeframe Iraq had 2 wars, and major internal fighting, 13-years of sanctions and isolation, still they managed to increase therer life expectancy with 2 years, while at the same time supa-kaputin-russia managed zero years.. But kaputin russia is so grate..
In 1990 Bosnia had an average life expectancy of 73 years. In 2012 Bosnia had an average life expectancy of 77 years.
Bosnia had a 4 year war in the 90 th.. They had a genoside… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_War Still they have increased there lidfe expectancy with 4 years during the same time as supa-putin-russia had zero…
In 1990 Croatia had an average life expectancy of 73 years. In 2012 Croatia had an average life expectancy of 78 years.
Now, either your just covering things up and being a good litte putinist, or your plain ignorant. Mate, we know you. You’re one of the most clever guys, so I believe it’s the first.
Let me present our dear Mr: Aleksandr Gelyevich Dugin
Dugin is the adviser to the State Duma speaker as well as key member of “United Russia party” that’s Putins party, isn’t it? He’s the chief ideologue and the founder of the Eurasia movement, Right? Dugin is the guy who are the author of “Foundation of geopolitics”, right? Hm, we sometimes ask our self, “Why dint the leaders in 1930 th read Mein Kampf…”
Today, I ask my self, “Why don’t we read Dugins “Foundation of geopolitics”, or at least take 5 minutes and read a summery of it? There we have it, the blue print of the Russian strategy for this centaury: subversion, destabilization, disinformation by the Russian special forces. Sounds familiar?
It’s a plan to Russify the whole Europe region and part of Asia and the middle east, though under different ethnic influences. Recreating the M-R pact in a new dress, more Russified than the last time..
This guy Dugin made the grand strategy for Putins Russia: his strategy is uniting the Russian speaking people under Russia. Retake the old Russian Empire borders, that means Baltic’s, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania as well as Finland Belarus, Georgia, AND Crimea AND Ukraine, as well as a whole lot of other states….
And let me inform you that while Russia had an average life expectancy of 69 years in 2012 other developed countries life expectancy in 2012 was: Sweden 82 years Switz 83 years UK 81 years France 82 years Germany 81 years Norway 82 years
This was previously posted in another thread, but this is the thread for it:
Lets look at other indicators of national performance. Average life expectancy is a grate indicator of a socio/economic performance. It gives a comprehensive unbiased indicator of social and economical development.
I’m using WHO data of life expectancy in the year 1990 and 2012:
In 1990 Russia had an average life expectancy of 69 years. In 2012 Russia had an average life expectancy of 69 years.
As we can see, Russia has not increased its life expectancy in 22 years.
Lets look at other countries, and see how they developed: In 1990 China had an average life expectancy of 69 years. In 2012 China had an average life expectancy of 75 years.
So, China has a better statistics here. They increased the life expectancy from 69 years in 1990 to 75 years in 2012. That’s an increase in 6 years, compared to Russias 0 [zero] years.
Lets look at other countries, and see how they developed: In 1990 Indonesia had an average life expectancy of 62 years. In 2012 Indonesia had an average life expectancy of 71 years.
Hm, so Indonesia has had some good development, starting from low 3-rd world figures, and now beats Russia with 2 years.
Lets be very fair here. Lets look at the former Soviet States and Soviet stateliest and see how they developed compared to Russia, in the same period 1990 and 2012 figures.. This ought to give a good indicator of performance as all the sates was soviet controlled or communist satellites in 1990. Thus they started from similar conditions in 1990, this ought to give an very fair good indicator of preformance.
A reminder of Russian development in life expectancy from 1990 to 2012:
In 1990 Russia had an average life expectancy of 69 years. In 2012 Russia had an average life expectancy of 69 years.
Lets look at the former soviet state Kyrgyzstan, and see how they developed from 1990 to 2012: In 1990 Kyrgyzstan (under Soviet/Russian domination) had an average life expectancy of 66 years. In 2012 Kyrgyzstan had a average life expectancy of 69 years.
So, since Kyrgyzstan was made independent from Soviet/Russia its life expectancy has increased, while at the same time Putins Russia life expectancy has not increased. Is Putin more than a nationalistic wind-bag?
Lets look at other countries in the former Soviet/Russian empire, and see how they developed: In 1990 Uzbecistan (under Soviet/Russian era) had an average life expectancy of 67 years. In 2012 the free Uzbecistan had a average life expectancy of 69 years.
Uzbecistan has now the same life expectancy as Putin-Russia…
Lets look at other countries in the former Soviet/Russian empire, and see how they developed: In 1990 Latvia (under Soviet/Russian era) had a average life expectancy of 69 years. In 2012 the free Lativia had a average life expectancy of 79 years.
Since Latvia was made independent from Russia in 1990 up to 2012 its life expectancy has increased with 10 years…
Lets look at another soviet satellite like Poland, and see how they developed in the same period: In 1990 Poland (as a soviet/russian communist satellite) had an life expectancy of 71 years. In 2012 the free Poland had a average life expectancy of 77 years.
As Russia has failed in increasing the life expectancy, other soviet- nations and satellite nation has not failed. Poland has increased the Life expect of 6 years, thus outpreformes Russia.
Oh, Lets look at another soviet “satellite” like Cuba, who still believe in communism, and see how they developed in the same period:
In 1990 Cuba had an life expectancy of 74 years. In 2012 Cuba had a average life expectancy of 79 years.
Russia is outperformed by the communist Castro Cuba.…
In 2013 Russia was ranked on place 124 of 194 countries in Life expectancy. Russia was outperformed by nations like: Moldavia, Ukraine, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Morocco, Philippines, Fiji, Egypt, Algeria, Iran, Albania!!!, Lebanon!!!, Armenia, Georgia, Jordan, Sri Lanka, Syria, Vietnam, … etc etc,…. Russia was ranked 124…. Russia was outperformed by 3 rd world countries en masse.
Russia is at place 65 out of 78 ranked nations. That’s not bad is it? Na, being at No 1 would be the best, and being at 78 is the worst. Notice that Russia is outperformed by countries like: Pakistan!, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Turkey, Georgia, Bulgaria, India!, Belarus!
Now, that suggests that Russia is really Kaputin.. No?
So, Im tempted to argue that the reason why Putin controlles the media is because he don’t want the Russian to see that he’s a crap leader who’s inability’s results in Russia is lagging behind the progress of other nations, thus nation after nation is moving past Russia. Even though, Russians have got it “better”, as you would say.
I actually tend to agree to that. today I had a big argument with my employees explaining them why can't we just invade and occupy Ukraine. Had a hard time explaining them that when you have an economics like Russia and all the foreign payments go through New York you should sit on your ass and breath calm even if you have enough nukes to kill the World. And I agree that most of the Russian population is really living in the alternate reality.
In August of 2004, Zappi, Homba, Bambam887, RedScorpion and MOOXE all pitched
in to create this Close Combat site. I would to thank all the people who have visited
and found this site to thier liking. I hope you had time to check out some
of the great Close Combat mods and our forums. I'd also like to thank
all the members of our volunteer staff that have helped over
the years, and all our users that contributed to this site!
Topic: 
looks like a crazy mean bastard
. so whom to blame?
