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Do incapacitations count as a soldier's kills?



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  Topic: Panthers In the Fog Game Lobby horrible (patch it!)

Replies: 25
Views: 28453

PostForum: Close Combat Panthers in the Fog   Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:46 am   Subject: Re: Panthers In the Fog Game Lobby horrible (patch it!)
Thanks for the answers. I wrote a long reply but I need to edit heavily before posting.

But basically its about finding a title, defining the extremes and locating the position in between. Ill be back.
  Topic: Panthers In the Fog Game Lobby horrible (patch it!)

Replies: 25
Views: 28453

PostForum: Close Combat Panthers in the Fog   Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:02 pm   Subject: Re: Panthers In the Fog Game Lobby horrible (patch it!)
In order to understand their decision-making (the new CC developers) you need to see it from their perspective; they spend money on every activity they make and those spendings have to generate money. Positive business.

Money is their fundamental perspective in everything they do. So for instance threatening with not buying their games wont work, unless that is, your threat represent the majority of their consumer base. Otherwise they couldent care any less. Their aim is to earn money and only that.

Hence, the new approach this CC community need to take with the new developers, is the so to speak How-can-they-make-money-on-our-suggestions approach. Any other approach will probably lead nowhere.

So when something has worked greatly for the community the last 15 years, it really doesn't matter. I don't mean to sound disrespectful here, I'm just trying to explain how they think.

This community therefore should emphasize no more talk about pirate copies and torrent downloads. As an absolutely minimum that is. Because otherwise they will continue to perceive this community as a potential money-drainer, a negativity, not being part of their positive segment in their market-analysis.

In their point of view this website is most probably just another market-channel out there. And since it is not a channel they make money on, or control, it is not an important channel. Perhaps to a certain degree, this channel is an inspiration in relation to game-related ideas and solutions, how modders approach the game, different types of user experiences, new and old gamer tendencies and so forth. But as it stand this channel is not important and naturally shouldn't be. It would be a poor market-analysis making a channel like this important. Cause no money is made on it, as developer you don't control it and some of its users openly use pirate copies, not to mention the self perception this channel has; no vision about allying with the developers, expressing its own position on the map.    

Therefore the challenge for this community, as I see it - Respectfully, is to figure out how to position it self in this new landscape now carved up by the new owners of the game. The owner of this website can not do it alone, nor can a few old modders. It has to be a major part of the community that somehow align internally and reposition externally.  

Its almost like when your playing Close Combat it self and your now facing that Mg bunker 100 meters in front of you on the flat and open map. Terrible map, terrible situation. Unfair. And you have no tank-support, no arty, no air, no sniper, no rocket, no flame or explosives, almost no nothing except a few rifles and a few hand grenades. So the 15 rounds of ammo and weapons that worked so well for you the last 15 minutes of battle has now been used up. So Now its about being creative again, and somehow flank that bunker 100 meters in front of you. Cause the extra ammo, the food and all the supplies are on the far side of that bunker.

You need to reorganize and rethink. Otherwise your stuck.

I hope my tone is not too harsh, or sound arrogant, I don't mean it so, its just my picture of the overall situation, after the game got new owners.
  Topic: TLD Battle for Caen v0.93 Release

Replies: 27
Views: 44384

PostForum: Battle For Caen   Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:43 am   Subject: Re: TLD Battle for Caen v0.93 Release
I need to buy the game first nikin. I want the game as it is, in a box with a manual and all.
  Topic: TLD Battle for Caen v0.93 Release

Replies: 27
Views: 44384

PostForum: Battle For Caen   Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 7:38 am   Subject: Re: TLD Battle for Caen v0.93 Release
I would love to play this MOD, however, I don't have TLD and don't want to buy it online, so I'm probably not going to play it Sad
  Topic: Panthers In the Fog Game Lobby horrible (patch it!)

Replies: 25
Views: 28453

PostForum: Close Combat Panthers in the Fog   Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 7:36 am   Subject: Re: Panthers In the Fog Game Lobby horrible (patch it!)
I think the game-owned server is a beneficial solution. It simply reduce the risk of cheaters and pirate copies in use.

Cheaters in game communities have always had a negative impact on both the games and their related communities. However, it often takes a long time before an impact can be measured in for instance-a reduced player base, or a decrease in sale, so doing what you can against cheating is in fact really important.

Perhaps in the future, players from the CC community could rent / buy dedicated servers, signing code of conducts and what have you, in order to increase the amount of servers in use; should the multi player player base be increased.

Only remaining fundamental problem with the new CC games, is that they are not sold out in the shops and supermarkets any more. The digital sale-strategy has reduced the visibility of the game for the average consumer. A solution of some kind, perhaps marketing with other game companies, could be the answer to increase the sale and the player base in the multi player communities?
  Topic: TRSM Ronson - CC_CO Grand Campaign

Replies: 63
Views: 88264

PostForum: H2H Multiplayer   Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 7:16 am   Subject: Re: TRSM Ronson - CC_CO Grand Campaign
A whole year now and not a single comment on the mystical coded ridge on Bois du Bavent lol  Very Happy

how do manage to zoom out on the strat map? - Your AAR really helped to push me in the right direction - Thank You good sir!

No zoom involved, only screen-shots puzzled together. Very easy to do. Made in paint Microsoft.

JayR, your comment really helped me too, pushing me in the right direction as well. Thank You too good sir!
  Topic: Notes to Ortona '43 Beta I release

Replies: 47
Views: 45750

PostForum: CC5 Ortona 1943   Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:02 pm   Subject: Re: Notes to Ortona '43 Beta I release
Ortona 43 is a well made and tense modification of CC5. Playing it is almost like going back to a more brutal version of old CC2. The terrain is rough, bumpy and uneven, creating short view distances, often leading to these short ranged, insane fire-fights you normally wont experience in other modifications.

I have reached the 12th in the Canadian single player campaign and have captured the supply road up to Cider Crossroads, however, I am constantly being cut off in San Leonardo. Have been forced to clean that map two times already, and now I have to do it a third. New German BG just moved in. So my two battle-groups north of San Leonardo are therefore running out of fuel and ammo. Good thing I’m not fighting a human opponent.

The first map in the campaign, Moro Delta, took me five painful battles to capture. The map also depleted my battle group on it. No tanks left in it until I decide to reinforce.

As others I also wanted to be surprised, so I read as little about Ortona 43 as I could and decided not to peak the German side. So on Moro Delta I got the surprises I wanted. For instance I lost 2 Sherman’s in the second battle, against an antitank gun ambushing the road. In he following battles I lost my last Sherman, this time to an infantry gun behind a hedge. A lot of my infantry got cut down by enemy MG fire.  

What else to say at this early stage.

The music. I love the intro music. It set the tone of this brutal mod. However, when a map has been loaded the music could perhaps be a bit longer in order for it to fade out in an echo. The maps are great. Love them already. They are detailed and the size of the buildings makes things more realistic.

I like the fact that rifle squads has no smoke. Also, the few shells available for the mortars works fine too. You try not to waste your mortar ammo Smile The German Mg sound is a bit too loud. Same goes for the sound of the blasting tank Mg sound.

Whatever the changes Pete & Buck Compton will add to their modification, I think it is safe to say that Ortona 43 already at this early stage is a little unpolished diamond.

Thank you!
  Topic: GJS for LSA

Replies: 204
Views: 181678

PostForum: Close Combat Last Stand Arnhem   Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:01 pm   Subject: Re: GJS for LSA
  Topic: TRSM Ronson - CC_CO Grand Campaign

Replies: 63
Views: 88264

PostForum: H2H Multiplayer   Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:20 pm   Subject: Re: TRSM Ronson - CC_CO Grand Campaign
Evening battles 16th of June - 12 in total

Lebisey Woods
My BG is now cut off, however, that does not mean my Panzers are out of ammunition. Ronson is aware of that and he therefore moved very slowly and safely forward. No big change in ground lost or taken. Light losses too.

We truce from start.

Abbaye D'Ardenne; MAP IS LOST!
Exactly 8 days after the first battle on this map, more precisely in the very last minutes of the 16th battle of Abbaye D'Ardenne, my II/22 21st Panzerdivision loose the map. Having now only 30 halftracks and a few sMGs left, the battlegroup has almost fought to the last man.

Looking back on this last battle, it is clear that I could have hold out at least one turn more. However, two open gabs in my little castle-fortress at the abbaye it self, meant that Ronson finally could move his tanks 'inside' my "perimeter" and straight up to the building walls from where he literally could shoot up all my infantry inside, who had no antitank weapons left...

Now, had these two gabs been closed with a couple of halftracks he wouldn't have been able to move tanks into the abbaye area, meaning my infantry would have been able to defeat his incoming infantry. Thus not blocking these two gaps, was a clear mistake on my part.

Eventually though, my weakest panzer BG did delay Ronson for more than a week on this map. My BG fought against overwhelming odds, fighting against 5 allied battle groups, cumulating to almost 20 percent of Ronsons total BG-force, numbering 27 BGs.

Since June the 8th, the allied battle-groups having fought on Abbaye D'Ardenne, are as follows:

    9/3rd British (Sledgehammer BG which Ronson eventually withdrew due to the very heavy losses it suffered)

    131/7th (Infantry BG that Ronson withdrew after its first battle, where it suffered very heavy losses)

    154/51st (Tank BG that Ronson eventually reinforced after having lost most its tanks and infantry teams on this map)

    153/51st (Tank BG that Ronson pushed through the map, moving it to Carpiquet)

    29/11 (Heavy tank BG that in a few battles killed the last of my infantry)

Although I now know that it is possible to hold out longer on this map than I have been able to in this campaign, I also think that my result is satisfying, well-knowing that just one of my Panzer BGs, in-fact the weakest I had, were able to draw in so many of his powerful BGs and inflict so heavy casualties on these too. Two out of the five allied BGs having fought here, were withdrawn due to losses taken, while one was reinforced. Not a bad result I think.

Ronson use heavy tank-support from start to end of the battle - ongoing tank-fire on my positions

Ronsons tanks have begun to move up to the walls them selfs and shoot straight into the building

The result was a slaughter on my brave men

A great battle. I knocked out a Command Sherman and killed a lot of his infantry, while capturing a flag and recapturing anther flag I initially lost at the start of the battle.

I recaptured a bit the ground recently lost. Light losses on both sides, shootings and firing went on along the whole line from start to end of the battle. Ronson moved forward a Cromwell but withdrew it again when he spotted my Jagdpanzer moved towards it.

I lost ground but no guns.

A good battle. I once again tried to take the bunker at the south bridge, but my infantry team got annihilated. In the upper part, however, I did manage to break through and cross the road with a depleted infantry team. Thus I captured an important hedge.

I loose my first Panther in a stupid and unnecessary way. I move it forward where there were no reason for it to move, and Boom! a PIAT knocks it out. Otherwise a good battle, where I were a bit too slow advancing towards the flag. However, safety was my motto - that is - until I moved forward my Panther in the last minute of the battle. 19 Minutes of safety and 1 minute of blind boldness; BOOM!

A slaughter of a battle. Both sides lost lots of infantry, however, Ronson also lost 3 guns and one armoured car. I had no losses in heavy equipment. My plan was to try and draw Ronsons infantry into a close fire fight near the Troarn exit and if possible capture the flag too.

Eventually I used up all my deployed infantry units along the road and lost all of them too

A slaughter takes place as Ronson apparently is able to move all his tanks - 3 deployed - even though he is out of fuel. I did have antitank weapons deployed, however, not against 3 moving tanks. We both find it strange that he could move so many tanks, since it normally is maximum 2 tanks one can move, and many times only one. I almost lost the entire map.

Bois du Bavent
A very strange problem occur. From battle-start an invisible rigdeline has manifested it self between my units and Chateau Bavent?
Thus I cant move forward, trying to capture it, since the ridge line is deployed on the open ground between my units and the Chateau.

A mystical 124 high ridge is now part of the map.

Thus my Panther is not able to get LOS very far

Same ridge is deployed between my other units and Chateau Bavent - LOS to the Chateau is therefore broken

LOS broken here aswell - by the same 124 high ridge

LOS broken here too - by the 124 high ridge

After the "battle" I test the map in a local game against the ai. No ridge-line now...LOS not broken.

  Topic: TRSM Ronson - CC_CO Grand Campaign

Replies: 63
Views: 88264

PostForum: H2H Multiplayer   Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:24 am   Subject: Re: TRSM Ronson - CC_CO Grand Campaign
Strategic movement phase June 16th PM
  Topic: TRSM Ronson - CC_CO Grand Campaign

Replies: 63
Views: 88264

PostForum: H2H Multiplayer   Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:31 pm   Subject: Re: TRSM Ronson - CC_CO Grand Campaign
Morning battles 16th of June - 12 in total

Lebisey Woods
Not much takes place. I use up one of my hts in order to try and spot his positions down the road to Bretteville. No ground lost or gained.


We truce from start.

Abbaye D'Ardenne

my II/22 21st Panzer has been depleted after 14 intense defensive battles

Ronsons new BG on Abbaye

Ronson send in yet another BG on this the most contested map in the campaign. Battle number 15 initiate as sort of a meeting engagement, where my objective is to block all entries to the church-area with half-tracks. Ronson simultaneously and methodically form up a line of tanks and infantry moving slowly down the fields from the Buron exit to the Caen exit. Performing his movement like that ensure that any of my teams in the field will be spotted and killed. Thus this time I have not deployed any teams in the field. That lesson has been learned.

Meanwhile at the abbaye, I succeed blocking all gates with half tracks, so Ronsons infantry has to enter the compound with limited fire support. In one place however, his infantry does manage to sneak in and annihilate one of my rifle teams on ambush, but the rest of the infantry fights are more or less on my terms.  

The battle ends with Ronsons infantry having captured two of the three inner flags, and naturally all other flags too. My men have a hard time to get the two inner flags back, due to the constant tank fire on the buildings.

However, once again, my brave soldiers from the II/22 of the 21st Panzer hold a flag at battle end. So even though all but one flag has been captured by Ronson, using such a weak German BG against such a powerful allied BG as Ronson has deployed, there is only one word to describe this tactical and strategical outcome;


After the battle we discuss whether the walls surrounding the Abbey are unrealistic coded or not?

The second battle of Caen ends with a position not too bad for my brave men from the 346th. Ronsons BG is apparently the same unit that entered Carpiquet last turn, so congrats to Ronson for the surprise effect. I certainly did not expect a BG to enter from the airport exit.  

The battle was sort of a stalemate. I could have pressed on for the flag below the church but decided not too. In the next battle, should his BG still be here I probably need to try and capture some ground. The terrain btw. is excellent for a BG as the 346th.

Lots of shooting. Ronson recapture a bit more ground near the centre flag. Otherwise nothing happens. Basically there were shootings from start to end of this battle.

A most great battle this was! My SS has finally created a foothold. No ground was lost! Casualties on both sides were light, however, Ronson only has some 5 tanks left in this BG now. 5 out of 24 Smile One more of these battles, and my foothold on Tilly will be secured.  

Ronson capture half the length of the important centre hedge. I gain a foothold in a building and my reckon unit that try to recapture the bunker at the south bride, is ambushed and destroyed.

A great battle for the Panthers of the Lehr. Losses were light on my side and although Ronsons deployment-area was close to excellent, I still managed to push him back, while inflicting heavy losses on his formation. He used an air-strike that partly failed, phew.  

Ronson decide not to send forward more tanks towards the Caen exit

Best crew after the battle. A Jabo killed one of the crewmembers

Game frooze at battle end, grrrrr! frustrating! We decide to rebuild.

Otherwise it was a great battle, very intense. I once again use too few units defending the exit to Cagny.

Screen from the original battle

Screen from the result of the rebuild

Game crashed 3 minutes before end. We decide to rebuild.

Last screen from the battle, before the crash. Suggested borders added.

Screen from the result of the rebuild, which we replayed two times, in order to get it right.

Bois du Bavent
We apparently both deploy for defence. No kills. I slowly but safely capture more ground.

  Topic: TRSM Ronson - CC_CO Grand Campaign

Replies: 63
Views: 88264

PostForum: H2H Multiplayer   Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:30 pm   Subject: Re: TRSM Ronson - CC_CO Grand Campaign
Strategic movement phase June 16th AM

With the loss of the Cagny exit on Vimont, I have no doubt that Ronson is aiming for Cagny. So if he can he hold onto his position in Troarn and in Cagny, my entire front line south-west of Caen will been cut off. Four strong BGs cut off. The campaign could therefore be decided now, with Cagny and Troarn as the decisive areas.

Also, more importantly - the weather, its cloudy and bad - and bad weather is wehrmacht weather.
  Topic: TRSM Ronson - CC_CO Grand Campaign

Replies: 63
Views: 88264

PostForum: H2H Multiplayer   Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:26 pm   Subject: Re: TRSM Ronson - CC_CO Grand Campaign
Evening battles 15th of June - 11 in total

Lebisey Woods
Stupidly I accept to be drawn into a duel between a Sherman Crab and one of my Befehlspanzers, well knowing that Ronsons lurking 57mm antitank guns most probably have line of sight on the hedge my panzer moves up to, which they did. So I loose a Befehlspanzer. So stupid of me and a bad start of a turn too.

Sleepville continues as such. We truce at battle-start.

Abbaye D'Ardenne
In this the 14th or 15th battle, we both focus on the same area. Sadly I have no real antitank weapons left, only 1 team with a faust and some teams with rifle grenades, so Ronson simply move in his Shermans and fire on all buildings - performing a devastating suppressive fire. My brave men are literally shot to pieces from all sides.

Watching the development of this terrible slaughter, I realise that I need to block the 3 gates in the compound walls, so his tanks cannot move into it. How amazingly it sound, this is the first time after all these battles, that I realise the gates needs to be blocked. It seems I am learning too slowly...but I am learning.

My deployment focus on defending the Abbaye

The slaughter at Abbey remove the bulk of my remaining infantry

Ronson succeed with a surprising local counter-attack, giving him back some lost ground in the south.

Yet another entry with the Mark IV Panzers of the 12th SS Hitlerjugend.

My Panzer BG is still in fairly good shape

Ronsons BG showing more signs on depletion

It is obvious that I am loosing too many panzers in these entry battles

After having damaged a Firefly too
my best SS Mark IV is knocked out in this battle

Once again in the same turn, I loose a panzer because of stupidity. I move a Jagd through a crossroad that I am pretty sure Ronson has line of sight on, with his antitank guns. He had. I lost the Jadg.

This must be the 11th panzer I loose in this campaign, from stupid decision-making-only. Thus 1/3 of all my panzer losses!

Ronson make his first move into Carpiquet, where my Panthers from the Lehr are now to fight for their first time too. I cannot imaging his objective is to capture important ground, but only holding ground while wanting to draw in my precious panthers. However, I will not use my panthers to try and kick him off. Not yet. If he stays he stays. Thats it. I have lost too many panzers in this turn already, 5 in total;

1 Mark IV in Lebisey (a command panzer)
3 Mark IVs in Tilly
1 Jagd in Juvigny  

Ronson moves in from Caen, now being in German hands again

My Lehr panther formation has not been committed yet, thus it is fully manned and equipped

Ronsons reinforced BG still in good shape

The result ends pretty much as I had expected, although with lighter losses on Ronsons side as  had hoped for

Ronson enters Vimont with his sledgehammer BG being fairly depleted and out of fuel too. At no point had I thought he would go for the exit to Cagny, so the buildings in front of it was defended only by 3 teams; 1 Schreck, 1 Command and 1 Rifle. Looking back now, I see how stupid it was not to deploy more troops up here, because of course he wanted to capture that exit. However, at the strategic map, although I understood the possibility of an encirclement, I still read the development of his bold pincer to force my panzers to battle.

Regardless, he got the exit and thus now he was in fact able to cut off my entire front south west of Caen. I think I need to read a book or two on strategy, because the fact I have let him come this far is a simply too stupid.

Ronson moves in from Troarn to Cagny.

My BG from the 346th is well manned and equipped

Ronsons sledgehammer, depleted in some types of units, is still a strong BG

A fairly good result

Ronson moves in his infantry BG from Bois du Bavent. His objective clearly is to try and reach the exit to Vimont, while holding onto the village too. Sadly my Tigers was too slow to cross the railway and my infantry had to crawl most the way too. Thus before I had formed up a reasonable start-line of attack towards the exit to Vimont and the village it self, precious time had been lost. Eventually I had to throw in two Stösstruppe-teams in drops supported by a few Späh teams too, just to capture something.

Fortunately I managed to knock out both a Tank destroyer and a antitank gun too, that strangely is not listed as lost?

One of my Tigers got immobilised by artillery barrage, however, I managed to move in several teams around it at battle-end, in order for the crew not to abandon it. Thus in the next turn on the 16th AM, the Tiger was still available...phew.    

My Tigers face yet another BG on Troarn

The deployment

Too slow a build-up for my assault on the village result in the exit to Vimont is out of German reach

The allied antitank gun not listed as destroyed - a bug?

Bois du Bavent
Ronson move in another infantry BG on Bois du Bavent. My Panthers had an easy battle here.

We fight on for the flag in the field. Ronson made good use of smoke, multiple directions of attack and finally a barrage destroying my 88 Pak.

Total losses and situation debrief June 15th PM

  Topic: TRSM Ronson - CC_CO Grand Campaign

Replies: 63
Views: 88264

PostForum: H2H Multiplayer   Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:26 pm   Subject: Re: TRSM Ronson - CC_CO Grand Campaign
Strategic movement phase June 15th PM

With the loss of the Carpiquet exit in Caen, Ronson could make use of it in order to get a solid entry-box on the airport-map.
  Topic: TRSM Ronson - CC_CO Grand Campaign

Replies: 63
Views: 88264

PostForum: H2H Multiplayer   Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:24 pm   Subject: Re: TRSM Ronson - CC_CO Grand Campaign
Morning battles 15th of June - 10 in total

Lebisey Woods
With Ronson now having entered Caen, my I/22 21st Panzer has to do something. I decide to try and make it for the Abbaye exit on the far side of the field. However, my attack fail. Reasons are as follows:
    I used tracks in the field from start. My intention was that with my smoke cover they should somehow make it through the field before getting knocked out. They made it perhaps 50 meters before they got knocked. Thus clearly a fail.

    The tracks made Ronson suspicious to what else was in the field. Thus my recon teams was eventually spotted and hunted down.

Also, in the fight for the field I manage to damage one of Ronsons many Sherman's. I think it was removed the next turn?

Sleepville is sleepville, so we truce from start.

A German panzer crew use the pause in the fightings at Bretteville to camouflage their panzer

Abbaye D'Ardenne
Ronson send in a new BG from Buron. I manage to capture the exit to Hermanville, however, not enough space around it, to defend it.

my deployment

Ronson moves in Shermans next to the church

the result

Since our first battle crash we decide to replay instead of rebuild. The argument is that my counter-attack had only begun when the battle crashed.

In the replay things evolve pretty much the same as in the first battle, however, I am not able to knock out the two Shermans as I was in the first. And my PaK40 is not destroyed either Very Happy  

Ronson made good use of tank support in this second battle. His AA tank was deadly and several times I had no choice than to withdraw from one building to the next. My infantry teams got plenty of kills though. On average most my rifle teams killed 4 or 5 allied troops.

I manage to capture some ground in the south, not all though. Lots of firing from both sides, on suspicious hedges and buildings, but no real fire fights.


My brave grenadiers from the 12th SS Hitlerjugend makes yet another entry on Tilly. I had expected to be thrown off, however, although I am pushed back I still hold some valid ground at battle end. One of my brave IG18s knock out an AVRE on a distance below 70 meters. Beautiful!

Yet another attempt to get a foot hold on Tilly

My SS BG is still in good shape

Ronsons BG is beginning to show signs of depletion

The result

After the battle we discuss whether it is realistic or not, that an infantry gun can knock out an AVRE? It has to be said it didn't knock it out in first shoot. It took some 5 hits or so before the AVRE exploded. I think the antitank shell developed for the IG18 could penetrate 85mm armour, but I am not sure? Could be of course that the hit was a lucky one?

Next a few videos about the IG. 18 Infantry Gun / 7,5-cm-leichtes Infanteriegeschütz 18.

709. Soldaten manning the units ig18 light infantry cannon at the 2012 Dixon


This episode focuses on a WWII German le IG G18 75mm infantry support gun


I start the battle sending in a lone halftrack, trying to capture the Field flag, which I do. No follow up operations involved though, thus no consolidation attempt. My intention was simply just to see how Ronson would react. He apparently had an antitank gun deployed in a hedge defending his side of the flag, so although nothing happened to my track when capturing the flag, it was knocked out when I moved it some 70 meters further forward.  

I spot the antitank gun and use artillery and mortars to knock it out. After that Ronson not much takes place. Near battle end Ronson begin to move out infantry of the nearby hedges to the newly captured flag, and he recapture it. I have units covering the approaches to the flag and they get a few kills out of his infantry approaching the flag.

My Tiger battalion enters Troarn from the Cagny map. Battalion objective is to recapture the entire map from one of Ronsons still quite powerful sledgehammer BGs.

My plan was to try and capture the railway crossing flag, however, even though most of Ronsons tanks were out of fuel, they still did put up too strong a defence for me to capture it. When Ronson realised I was not going to advance any further he counter-attacked, however, it proofed to be that my troops were also too strong for him to advance. Battle ended pretty much at my start-line.  

My Tigers enter Troarn

Although cut off, Ronsons battlegroup is still powerful

My Tiger BG is also powerful. Only losses so far has been on Tilly.

My deployment

Bois du Bavent


Total losses and situation debrief June 15th AM

  Topic: TRSM Ronson - CC_CO Grand Campaign

Replies: 63
Views: 88264

PostForum: H2H Multiplayer   Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:23 pm   Subject: Re: TRSM Ronson - CC_CO Grand Campaign
Strategic movement phase June 15th AM

With my loss of the two C-exits, the Caen & Carpiquet exits on Abbey D'Ardenne, Ronsons overall situation just improved significantly. Whether he then want to make use of them, or capture all of Abbey D'Ardenne first, this strategic phase will tell.

Had I only deployed the other Panzer BG from the 21st Panzer division on Abbey D'Ardenne, I would not have lost the two C-exits this early in the campaign.
  Topic: TLD: Battle for Caen

Replies: 28
Views: 50151

PostForum: Battle For Caen   Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:12 am   Subject: Re: TLD: Objective Caen
Self propelled artillery will be very welcomed by any player trying out the German side. Will the 251/7 be equipped with a bridge, or is it the on-board gun that made you pick it for use?

25 FP slots is awesome. Very interesting expansion.
  Topic: TRSM Ronson - CC_CO Grand Campaign

Replies: 63
Views: 88264

PostForum: H2H Multiplayer   Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:25 am   Subject: Re: TRSM Ronson - CC_CO Grand Campaign
Temporarily status report

The campaign have now reached the 15th of June, where we have both passed the 2000 men lost-marker. Until the 10th of June, when both of us had just reached the 1000 men lost-marker, most of my casualties were from the 716th Division. Back then, on the 10th, I wrote:

Most of my losses are taken from the 716th Division, who's battle groups have lost most their guns too. However, most of Ronson's losses are from his sledgehammer BGs, he he. Hopefully within June the 15th AM, Ronson has lost additional 1000 men. That seems to be my strategy now; kill as many as his men as possible, while only giving ground as slow as possible.

And now it is the 15th and Ronson has in fact lost 1000 more men Very Happy So clearly something seems to work as hoped; the continuous depletion of infantry in Ronsons best formations (his sledgehammers). By now these BGs has taken considerable infantry-losses and as already mentioned, Ronson has even reinforced one of them as well.

In regard to my losses between the 10th AM and the 15th AM, the majority come from the 21st Panzer and the 346th infantry division.

Within the 21st Panzer it has especially been the two BGs defending Abbaye D'Ardenne and Ranville that has taken the brunt of the casualties. The BG on Abbaye D'Ardenne has lost more than 300 men, thus almost a third of the total loss. It is by now close to depletion. Within the 346th infantry division losses are more evened out in two of its four BGs. Panzerlehr and 12th SS has also taken some infantry losses, however, these are in overall light, accumulating to some 1-200 men in total, spread out on 4-5 BGs, and contributing with a maximum of 20% of the total losses.  

Losses between the 10th AM and the 15th AM

June 9th PM

June the 15th AM

Also, in regard to comparing our losses, Ronson has still lost only a few guns and vehicles, while I have lost quite a lot more. Ronsons tank losses however, has fortunately raised much more between the 10th and the 15th, than compared to the period 6th to the 10th. Most his tank losses are from the same formations, so although he still have some funnies left, many has by now been destroyed. Unlike me he has used pretty much the same BGs on most maps, which could be the reason that his tank losses has raised as much as they have? Because those same formations has lost lots of infantry too, thus eventually tanks eventually has been used more offensively now the infantry reconnaissance in force, has no more been a continuously possible to use. Conclusively, the infantry-losses his sledgehammers has suffered, has forced him to put forward his tanks more risky than previously.

In terms of my losses in both panzers, vehicles and guns, they are fairly even. This I think is a result of how I have continuously shifted out my BGs, especially on Tilly, but also a result of my focus to not committing my panzer BGs. Thus most my armoured casualties between the 10th and the 15th, still consist of Marders, armoured cars and gunned tracks. In total I have now lost circa 30 main battle tanks, from the units listed below:

    12 Mark IVs from the 21st in Abbaye D'Ardenne
    2 Mark IVs from the 21st in Lebisey
    6 Mark IVs from the 12th SS in Tilly
    2 Jagdpanzers from the Lehr in Lingevrens and Jugviny
    5 Mark IVs from the Lehr in Bretteville
    1 Mark III and 1 Mark VI from the 12th SS in Tilly

    28 MBTs lost in total

Ronsons tank losses
I have not yet counted Ronsons total tank-loss (Main Battle Tanks) however, I presume that his realistic tank-loss has reached 100-120 units, thus minimum 30 of the listed units lost, consist of light tanks, damaged tanks, armoured cars and tank destroyers. This also means that I at this point still haven't destroyed his first wave of 5 beach-tank-BGs, containing circa 120 tanks.

Short on my Panzer Strategy
As you can see, my total amor loss on June the 15th, consist of 68 units lost, however, of those only 28 are panzers, thus the remaining 40 units consist of Marders, gunned cars, gunned tracks and damaged panzers.

Before this campaign started I made sure to read all the TRSM AARs posted, and from those I learned that most players throw in their panzer formations quite early in the campaign, and loose them too. So consequently, I have tried to do the opposite; throwing in as few panzer formations as possible, only using them when I had no other option. This strategy had lead to increased infantry, gun and vehicle-losses, plus important lost ground too. However, it has also lead to the fact that the bulk of my panzer-force is still intact.

With the exception of the 2nd Panzer, I have now counted the amount of panzers I have available in the campaign (thus main battle tanks-only). The numbers are as follows:

21st Panzer division
    12 Mark IV (these 12 have been lost on Abbaye D'Ardenne)
    25 Mark IV and III

    Total 37 Panzers

    36 Mark IVs, Tigers and Stugs
    25 Panthers
    10 Jagd
    10 Jagd

    Total 81 Panzers

12th SS Hitlerjugend
    27 Mark IV
    18 Panthers
    15 Tigers and Mark III

    Total 60 Panzers

2nd Panzer
    20 Panthers

    Total 20 Panzers

Grand Total 198 Panzers

With a total loss of 28 panzers on June the 15th, I still have 170 panzers ready for my counter-offensive, planned for the last week of the campaign. And eventually I probably need a maximum of 60 panzers for that offensive to bring results, thus still more than 100 panzers left for the defence the next two weeks.
  Topic: TRSM Ronson - CC_CO Grand Campaign

Replies: 63
Views: 88264

PostForum: H2H Multiplayer   Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:50 pm   Subject: Re: TRSM Ronson - CC_CO Grand Campaign
OK. Looking forward to see that.
  Topic: TRSM Ronson - CC_CO Grand Campaign

Replies: 63
Views: 88264

PostForum: H2H Multiplayer   Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:23 pm   Subject: Re: TRSM Ronson - CC_CO Grand Campaign
Dima wrote (View Post):
Perhaps the winning conditions for a minor allied victory, should require more maps to be captured than in the present version of TRSM? Perhaps maps like Viller Bocage and Cagny?

there will be something like that in new ver so GC will better show who's a winner (thanks to Tigercub for idea Smile).

CC_CO wrote (View Post):

Possible solution
Perhaps the winning conditions for a minor allied victory, should require more maps to be captured than in the present version of TRSM? Perhaps maps like Viller Bocage and Cagny?

Dima perhaps my suggestion to involve Viller Bocage and Cagny into a minor victory setup is in-fact too easy for the allied side? Perhaps a minor allied victory should involve all maps west of the Orne?

In this present campaign we have reached June the 15th and from a German side things doesn't look to bright in regard to create a successfully counter offensive. I think playing the German side, I could most probably still capture Tilly, Lingevres, Bois du Bavent and Abbaye D'Ardenne, however, the price would be too high resulting in the loss of the main bulk of my Panzers.

However, from a defensive perspective - should I keep on slowly falling back, things still look fairly good. Thus should the next version of trsm focus on the Orne as the edge of an allied minor victory - then I think more players would find the game fun.

I haven't asked Ronson yet, however, when the allied player already half way through the campaign, have achieved a minor victory, that could perhaps result in less incentive to keep on attacking? - even though the allied side has the largest resources? I mean, some allied players would simply think "okay, I just got the minor victory, thus naturally the German side should attack now".

Same thing with the player on the German side, having experienced the allied player achieving the minor victory even before being half way through the campaign, could result in quite a motivational-drop, and thus also a less fun campaign?

If I recall correct, historically - the German commanders already after the 12th or so, wanted to pull back behind the Orne, while it was only Hitler wanting to keep on holding ground as well as pushing forward to the coats, meaning when even Rommel could see a strategical solid purpose in pulling back behind the Orne, that would perhaps in it self, be regarded as a Minor German victory; should the German side of course be able to hold that side of the Orne (with the exception of the para maps).

I think that many new players being on the same skill-level, playing the grand campaign for the first or second time, experiencing the notable difficulties playing the German side, and the fairly easy going, playing the allied side, could experience a drop in motivation for the remainder of the game - as soon as the allied side has achieved the minor victory?

I mean, why should it increase any further attacks-motivation for the player on the allied side, having already achieved a minor victory half way through the game?  And just as well, why should it increase any further attack-motivation for the player on the German side, having already lost both a Major victory, a Minor victory and a close to stalemate "victory", when realising how many resources the allied player still have half way through, well-knowing that its close to impossible to reach a stalemate or perhaps even a minor victory?

I need to say that I do find the game balanced. However, I think it is more balanced for the very experienced players and not so much the new players. Thus if one of yours and Stalkys objectives with this great awesome game, is to see as many new players as possible, completing the campaign, then the victory conditions should perhaps be edited significantly?

I hope its okay to suggest the above. I still view trsm GC from a new players perspective, so in that regard the victory conditions in any future version of TRSM or any other Close Combat game should perhaps have multiple victory conditions embedded, in order to cover both the new and the experienced players challenge-frame.

And once again - thank you for this great game.
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