[mooxe]

Here in Canada, its Remembrance Week. All serving and retired servicemen and women wear a poppy on thier uniform. A large number of civilians do the same. All for the same reason. To remember our countrie's sacrifices from WWI and WWII. We will also remember our military dead post WWII.

During this week, across Canada they will be many celebrations for this event. There are cenotaphs in every city, town and village, with the names thier war dead. Celebrations will take place at each and every one, as well as on every military installation, coast to coast.

On November 11th, 11:00hrs we all observe 2 minutes of silence to reflect on the sacrifices our country made. Following that, it is customary for servicemen to visit a Legion and mingle with the veterans. Afterwards, it is customary to remove thel poppy from our dress.

I am very respectful of Canada's veterans. I do notplace much importance on what battles they fought and won or lost, how many people they killed, or how many fighters they repaired. I am grateful that they all volunteered, that they all showed the courage to go to war without being ordered to, to answer the call without respect to thier own lives. They willingly signed up to put thier lives at risk for a noble cause to aid fellow man. True to Canada's military heritage.

So instead of turning this into a thank you veterans thread, lets all post how our own countries show gratitude and respect and at the same time saying why you respect your countries war dead.

[Polemarchos]

Greece also celebrated his national heroes of the 1940s on October 28th.
The anniversary of the so called "no" to the Italian request of surrender issued on 27th on October.

The battle for the Balkans began in October 1940 with the Italians attacking without declaration of war. Greece at that time had nearly no airforce (only WWI recon planes) no armoured task forces and so mainly relied on its infantry force. I admire those people because they fought a delay action on the Itallians with mainly WWI equipment (mannlicher rifles and few Mgs) and even managed to counterattack into Albania. That forced Germany to intervene in Greece (and after the coup de etat also in Yugoslavia) on April 1941 delaying the initiation of Barbarossa for 6 weeks. Another huge tribute though has to be given to the greek female population, which served as a transportation force in the pindus mountains carriying tonns of ammunition and other crucial material on their backs high into the greek mountain positions through snowy terrain. Without them the Italians would have overrun the Greek front lines. Both my grandparents participated in that action. Grandpa got Pur le merit for destroying an italian tank with a handgrenade, while my grandmom got a memorial medal for transporting weapons to the front lines on 1600 m over the sea level.

I am also very moved by the ANZAC support for Greece in 1941 although its 3 division force didnt stand a chance of stopping the Germans. Yet it was an anglo-greek endeavour to fight the battle of Crete and thus promote the death of the German parachute force... A blow that prevented an invasion of Malta and thus rescued Egypt.

Every year i spent in greece i visit those fortifications on the pindus line to get a picture of how war was fought back then and i have found several rousty weapons and helmet in the forests. I often nearly cry when witnessing a stone pile that indicate the grave of a fallen soldier somewhere remote in the mountains.

As Greek war heroes and veterans pose a huge status in our society beginning from Marathon to the WWII soldiers. We also honor them by giving them titles that indicate the battletested fate. Mathonomachoi (warriors of Marathon) or iroes tou sarranda (heroes of the 40s). Also parades are nothing unusual for Greece, since their goal is not to incite militarism but make the youth aware of the horrors of war witnessed by former generations and remind them to pursue more peaceful solutions.

The glory and honor all soldiers deserve can not be displayed by that, but it is a small and silent contribution to the heroic deeds of those who participated in the gigantic struggles of the past.

In memorial to all soldiers on any continent
Polermarchos

[Searry]

I hate stupid patriotism. Wars should be prevented with diplomacy. I allways nearly throw up if i hear something related to nationalism, like in Finland they celebrate the war veterans. It's just so disgusting.

[God4Saken]

G'day all from downunder! Here in Australia, the national day in which we annually recognize all those (Soldiers, sailors, airmen and others) who have served their country in all wars is the 25th of April. It is known as ANZAC day and commerorates the soldiers of the Australian and New Zealand Army Corps who fought in WW1, but mainly those who fought at Gallipoli in 1915. However it is not Australia's official national day; that is the 26th of January which marks when the First Fleet landed in Australia in 1788. Gallipoli was a bit of a United Nations effort in that there were combatants from many countries who fought and died there. On the defending side you had Turks, Arabs, Greeks, Germans and Iraqis to name a few. On the Attacking side you had Australians, New Zealanders, British, Irish, Indian, Israelis, French, Algerians, Senegalese and Even Chinese were there.

Whilst Australians had fought in earlier wars (Like the Boer War, the Boxer Rebellion, the Moari Wars and the Sudan), the Gallipoli campaign would be the first time they would fight as Australian units in the Australian Army (Previously Australians served in the British Army). So in a sense it was sort of a feeling of independence and national identity. Unfortunately the ANZAC's were under the command of British generals, who in WW1, were pretty inept to say the least and outright criminally incompetent to say the worst. Most of the campaign was highlighted by poor planning, lack of preparation, lousy navigating, (The Royal Navy landed the ANZACs at the wrong beach), virtually no reconnaissance or pre-intelligence gathering, resource deficiencies and of course major tactical blunders by high command. If ever a student of military tactics needs to study how not to manage a campaign, then Gallipoli is a shining example. They did their best and took on everything that was thrown at them. In the end, when they were finally evacuated, the ANZAC's planned and executed it themselves without loss (And without the Turks knowing). That effort they made, the resourcefulness they displayed, the courage they showed and especially the camaraderie (Or "Mateship" as we call it) amongst the soldiers is referred to as the "ANZAC spirit" nowadays.

However the shining light was the the courage and dedication shown by the average soldier on both sides, especially the Australians and New Zealanders. The highest award for bravery for the ANZACS is the Victoria Cross medal and nine Australians and one New Zealander won VC's at Gallipoli. The campaign in all lasted 11 months, but the ANZAC's were only there from April until December 1915. Out of 28150 Australians who fought at Gallipoli, 8,709 were killed and 19,441 were wounded. Out of 7553 New Zealanders who fought there, 2,721 were killed and 4,852 wounded (In all, around 132000 soldiers and sailors were killed at Gallipoli on both sides). Australia had the worst loss ratio of any country that fought in WW1, out of around 300000 who served, ariound 60000 were killed, that's 1 in 5 (Worse than Britain, Germany, even Russia). Also, Australia was the only all-volunteer force in WW1, all other countries had conscription. Sadly all the Gallipoli veterans are dead now, the last died in 2002, so we have lost that link to our past.

Australians commerorate ANZAC day by having a "Dawn" service at war memorials across the country. Like Canada, every city and country town has a major memorial or simple cenotaph. People gather to pay their respects, "The Stand To" order is given as dawn breaks, we observe a minute's silence, a bugle plays "The Last Post" and part of the poem "For the Fallen" by Lawrence Binyon is read to the crowd.

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old;
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.

Later on in the morning, there are parades for all the veterans from all conflicts (Whose ranks are sadly diminishing as they grow old and pass away), their families and current members of the Australian Defence Forces. Then the veterans groups will hold their annual reunions to relive their experiences once again and play the traditional Australian game of "Two-up". It is a day of reflection and celebration, but especially to remember all those who have died in the service of their country. Even Turkey recognizes the bravery of the Anzacs and bares no hatred for what transpired back then, both countries share their grief over Gallipoli. Their first president, Attaturk (Who commanded a Turkish Division at Gallipoli), paid tribute to the ANZAC's by declaring ANZAC Cove a sacred site and saying of them in 1934 -

"Those heroes that shed their blood and lost their lives... You are now lying in the soil of a friendly country. Therefore rest in peace. There is no difference between the Johnnies and the Mehmets to us where they lie side by side now here in this country of ours... You, the mothers, who sent their sons from faraway countries wipe away your tears; your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace. After having lost their lives on this land, they have become our sons as well."

So in Australia today, Turkish veterans are allowed to march on ANZAC day (It also commemorates the Korean War in 1950 when Australian and Turkish soldiers fought together). Oh no, it's late, I'm off to bed, g'night all.

[Tejszd]

Good thread, thank you for taking the time to post information about your country....

[Polemarchos]

[Blackstump]

Just to add to God4sakens post, Australians wear a sprig of Rosemary on ANZAC day, Rosemary for rememberance and also because it grew wild on the slopes of Gallipoli, and on the 11th of November we wear the red poppy as grew in the fields of Flanders, we observe the 1 min of silence at 11am and the last post is played at our cenotaphs. Lest We Forget

[squadleader_id]

November 10th is celebrated as "Hero's Day" in Indonesia, as tribute to the valiant soldiers, militias and volunteer freedom fighters who fought and died bravely defending the city of Surabaya against British Forces sent by the Allies to police Indonesia. "Hero's Day" is also a rememberance to all the fallen heroes who fought for Indonesian Independence...since the time of Dutch Occupation, the brief but brutal Japanese occupation throught to the battle for Independence (1945-1948).

Every few years in the city of Surabaya there's huge ceremonies for "Hero's Day". Streets are cleared from traffic and re-enactment brigades numbering in the thousands would relive the battles in the streets of Surabaya.

[Badger-Bag]

When I read for the first time, that supremely magnaimous quote by Ataturk ( The title his rightly grateful people gave him in his late life, "Father of the Turks" ) struck right through my eyes, and took my heart for Turkey and its people, which I guess shows you what a soppy person I am. Ever after that I thought well of a people that could produce a man like that, and because they claimed to be brothers to our brothers there, it made us family, and I used to metaphorically wring my hands and say "Oh no, you HAVE TO BE FRIENDS" every time the news would tell us that Greece and Turkey were waving their swords at one another.

Greece earned my faith even earlier, you see. When I was 7 ,( 1972 ) I was told a story to me more fabulous that that about the Argos. My great uncle had been to Greece once, and fought down the spine of it , and then stayed to fight some more with a people that he swore were just Kiwis with a funny accent. He didn't let us know anything at all about the fighting, ( The stories being mainly concerned with climbing mountain after mountain in the dark, and arriving somewhere in a villiage from out of pre-history times, in the dark, being fed by grandmas whos' faces being lost in the dark, were HIS nan giving him something strange for breakfast for a joke. And old men coming to silently squeeze his hand. And leaving in the dark again. And horses that didn't need reins at all, and could go striaght up a brick wall if you asked it of them. And passing somewhere famous and the only person who could speak a little English telling them "Big fight here once" and never knowing which it was. And he wrote the whole experience out, but sadly he decided no-one would be interested, and threw it away Basically he sold me and my twin on the idea that, Greeks and New Zealanders are a family. ) but he did get us to promise to go there one day, like a pilgrimage.

So I really worry when the tensions build between Greece and Turkey. Which side do I take?.

It was a long time before I came to realise that hating the Germans and the Japanese was perpetuating a wrong. People my age ( 40 ) in the west will know what I mean when I say that hating the Japs and the Krauts wasn't OPTIONAL to someone of my generation.

Now I can see that when we honour our fallen, it isn't wrong to honour their fallen opponents too. Everyone of them left a mother with a broken heart.

Mooxe asked us to say how we honour our wardead, and why we respect them. I am not a big one for picking out a particular day, actually, though I wear a poppy on Anzac day, I have one my grandfather used to wear, wrapped in paper, I don't go to the dawn parade.
Instead I make a point of going fishing on Anzac day. My dads' brother who died in WW2 was a keen fisherman, and sailor. I always like to think towards him up there under the waves of the atlantic "Wish you here too mate". If he could be alive, wouldn't he want to be in Auckland catching a fish today?.

And when I am in another country I keep my eyes out for war memorials too. In one way, my nod of respect to them is meaningless, but so is a lot of the shit humans get up to eh?.

[ANZAC_Lord4war]

[mooxe]

[juanantonio]

since their goal is not to incite militarism but make the youth aware of the horrors of war witnessed by former generations and remind them to pursue more peaceful solutions.

The glory and honor all soldiers deserve can not be displayed by that, but it is a small and silent contribution to the heroic deeds of those who participated in the gigantic struggles of the past - Polemarchos wrote...!


I am afraid that when the Greek parades were introduced - in the late thirties - the greek government didn't have what Polemarchos said in mind but rather to integrate the whole Greek society into a totalitarian, fascist whole in the face of the rising anti-monarchist and labour ideas. Parades were introduced by a fascist government that, eventualy, fought against fascism because it thought that the British would win the war as it had happened in the Great War.

Moreover, for those who have served in the Greek army (myself included) prior to the parade and for about 3 months, the whole batallion is doing nothing else but oiling up and preparing 2 or 3 tanks (out of the 13 that each company has) so as to extract a cheer/applause from some grandparents and their grandchildren on the day of the parade. This is far from any meaningful training as it requires time, men, equipment and money.

My opinion is that the greek parades are a dangerous remnant of the past, it does not promote peace by any means and that it can be replaced by veterans parades who in their wisdom and experience can realy teach us what Polemarchos said. This cannot happen by showing off our tanks and equipment for our (bad - it is said) neighbours to see and watch out

That's all I guess

a tank 2nd lieutenant (in reserve)

[Polemarchos]

I Agree juanantonio... Greece lives in the last century in that regard.

I too served in Greece in 2001 with a part time in Kosovo, although illegal. I left Germany (my second homeland) just to serve in my country and all I got was the impression that our regular army is very bad condition and i was mistreated for beeing a so called "German-Greek" and had to serve sometimes 18 hours on watch in a row.
The most disturibing thing I witnessed is exactly what you described. Showing of military might with vietnam veteran M-113 and parading in cities which i saw every 55 days due to few personell we had and the duties going 55 inside a barranks and 1day out. Training is indeed crappy for regulars.

Yes equipment is lousy, moral is lousy, political education is bad... only 2 out of ten were real greeks ( knowing history, having a glance of honor, speaking from a cosmopolitan point of view and really could understand the meaning of the army -- the rest were brainwashed low-lifes) in my eyes. None of my commanders had ever read clausewitz or thucydides and thus they knew nearly nothing about squad tactics or simple stratregy. These fellows hated Turks ( although they never saw one) and were allways talking about an imminant threat across the Aegean.

But there were some that embodied what i meant in my first post. They as I see ourselves as a chain in history and we recognized the army as a defence force with duties now beyond the greek borders to help Nato/UN operations considering Nationbuilding.

The parades may be a leftover from darker times in Greece (e.g. mataxas tyranny or the Junta) but they are in a certain way a tribute to the few survivors of the 1940s and also a tribute to the dead of the civil-war which really divided greek society in two, and in some places still does. The purpose today is maybe to scare potential enemies away, but it also serves the cause to unite the greeks under one flag. Division and local patriotism is and was allways a special issue for the greeks with the known ladder of presumptions:

Village A hates village B, both hate municipality C... region A hates Region B , the south the north... But when its a national issue they all display themselves as Greeks against whoever. Parades in that regard somehow overlap this diffusion by pointing at an invisible enemy from the outside.

Yet this does not prevent them to denouce each other as communist, royalist or fascist and this discussion will go on in the follwing generations.
As cosmopolit i would wish that there was another way to explain to the modern greek the wealth of unity, but unfortunately only military parades
really makes it clear to anybody that we are one country, whose former generations died to make it the way it is.

I hope in the future that our country will overcome this xenophobic attitude the army displays. And furthermore i hope that the youth can get an impression by the army display to start asking themselves who they are and what they represent, thus shaping it to a more democratic, civil-society representing force.

Upps gone out of topic here
Polemarchos, Sgt. in Reserve (but hopefully never ever enlisted again)

[Polemarchos]

[God4Saken]

[Badger-Bag]

yep, they basically didn't care WHAT race you were, the Ottomans just "conscripted" everyone, from what I have read over the years they basically considered the poor as cannon fodder, and the rich as officers.
( who doesn't?. plenty of empires built that way, and it still gores on today.)

Here is an interesting book about one Jewish guys experience.

http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/10338

god4saken.

A friend of mine attends those US civil war re-enactments, participating as a battlefield correspondent. He and most of the other blokes, take a FUNDAMENTALIST approach to their "sacred duty" of keeping the history alive.

They make their own uniforms out of hand woven cloth sourced from natural fibres. He makes his own paper, ink, and pens, using technology absolutely the same as his fore-bear (This spelling of foreBEAR is extremely apt, as he looks exactly like an old grey bear, hairy ain't in it for description of Newsartist. ) journalists did. He sleeps rough , in the field, as most of the troups do, using a tarpaulin groundsheet as his only cover. He made the ground sheet, a real genuine tarpaulin like great great great gran'dad used to make.

After the battle, he goes home and writes up the events in language suitable to the time, and makes a newspaper on a hand press.

Talk about honouring the dead. CRIKEY !. That's yanks (and southern boys too I guess ) for you, nothing pleases them as much as excess.

[mooxe]

Its remembrance week again here in Canada. This year I will be parading at a small town in Eastern Ontario and possibly in Quebec.

We have lost 27 KIA so far this year in Afghanistan, and 72 total since we began our mission there in 2002.

[CSO_Sbufkle]

the rignette team I coach has a game November 11th at.. you got it.. 11 am. I have gotten permission from the league to have my team wear poppies on thier uniforms. (Yes, its agaisnt the rules without permission to have unauthorized patches ect on uniforms)

[Blackstump]

im not sure what sport rignette is, but either way as long as the little ones understand what the poppys stand for , then you have done your job, and stuff what the the sporting body says... any body who works for me, is told that at this time of the year when the last post is sounded that respect of the fallen will be shown.. or you dont work for me any more .. my 6 kids (youngest is 8 years old, all understand that the photos on the wall represent the reason they are here).. as they get older about 12 they get interested in why the photos are there, i hope as they get older and have there own children ( i have only one grand child so far) that the importance of this will stay with them... lest we forget

[milo66]

This year i want to remember and recognise the courageous efforts of all that faught in New Guinea but a special place will be held in my heart for the 39btn (Militia) and a chap by the name of Sam Templeton.
Of course i reflect on the tragedy of all wars but i wil take a moment and spare a thought for the boys who faught on The Kokoda Track.