Didnt want to offend here, but it was common for both sides on the East front to use penal units, that had some bad records:
Gulag - > Front also existed as "negative behaviour" in ones own unit, could mean sentence to penal units... Germans for example had the very infamous Dirlewanger unit, which actually was composed of criminals (murderer, rapists...). Russia formed some Gulag penal battallion (those i think are the actully stafniki)
with the enumeration (it was sort of cynic) i wanted to stess that the reasons are plentifull sending people to Gulags, Zuchthaus(german prisons, dont know if Kz-victims ever forced to fight) or were militarily sentenced to difficult tasks... i mean we are dealing with totalitarian dictarorships and pure hierarchical governments.
and its not just a legend:
there are accounts that actual combat between non-armed and armed units occured in the course of the war in the East... no large operation for sure, but sometimes it happend... have one good indication in the diary about how the german hq analysed that and warning goebbels not to use it as an indicator for his "russia is nearly dead" propaganda..
Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:56 pm Post subject: obviously
they are russians? geeze....
my guess winter 1941,purely due to no body armour, no helmets, and not the jackets seen so often by russian infantry. i am no specialist, as long as mypixel soldiers have a flame thrower and PPSH im a happy grog.
Didnt want to offend here, but it was common for both sides on the East front to use penal units, that had some bad records:
Gulag - > Front also existed as "negative behaviour" in ones own unit, could mean sentence to penal units... Germans for example had the very infamous Dirlewanger unit, which actually was composed of criminals (murderer, rapists...). Russia formed some Gulag penal battallion (those i think are the actully stafniki)
with the enumeration (it was sort of cynic) i wanted to stess that the reasons are plentifull sending people to Gulags, Zuchthaus(german prisons, dont know if Kz-victims ever forced to fight) or were militarily sentenced to difficult tasks... i mean we are dealing with totalitarian dictarorships and pure hierarchical governments.
and its not just a legend:
there are accounts that actual combat between non-armed and armed units occured in the course of the war in the East... no large operation for sure, but sometimes it happend... have one good indication in the diary about how the german hq analysed that and warning goebbels not to use it as an indicator for his "russia is nearly dead" propaganda..
You should try to remember that the soviet HQ wouldnt allow a picture of 'real' penal units to be taken.The pose indicate to me this is a pure PR shot, so they all have weapons, the question remains, were they allowed to keep em all when they went to battle?
You should try to remember that the soviet HQ wouldnt allow a picture of 'real' penal units to be taken.
i don't 'remember' such things.
Quote:
The pose indicate to me this is a pure PR shot, so they all have weapons, the question remains, were they allowed to keep em all when they went to battle?
so another RA expert comes to stage...
tried to read any document/report about penal units?
well, let's not take docs into account, have u read anything about penal units?
what do u know about penal units in RA during WW2?
There were to my knowledge no formal penal units within the British or Commonwealth armies during WW2.
However I do recall that during the battle of Crete inmates from the Field Detention Centre were released, armed and formed into an Ad Hoc unit. This subsequently took part in the fighting around the Maleme sector, performing very well, this being commented on later.
Could this be the occasion which you have read about Dima?
It should be noted that the unfortunates in these establishments (Field Detention Centres, Military Prisons etc.) were sent there for purely military 'crimes' they were not generally regarded as enemies of the state or equated with civil criminals.
For serious criminal offences the soldier would be court-marshalled and dismissed the service before being re-arrested by the civil police and charged under the criminal laws.
The only thing comparable to Soviet penal units in the US military, were the black units.
Not that they committed any crime, but that they were assigned the work like munitions transportation, stretcher-bearing, cleaning up after the dead, and general logistical support...rarely, if ever, in front line roles.
Some Romany-Marshs, a lot of Marinos, a couple of Black-faces . . . good-times, ah yes. . . .
And how do we know that this is in New Zealand, folks, and not Australia?.
See some green substance on the ground in the background, Blackstump?. Did your grandfather ever speak to you of that mystical substance "Green Grass" ?. You know, what the ground grows spontainiously if it "Rains" ?.
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