the french had victories before your military history had ever evolved...
( dont play the nationalistic card, because as greek i can start before adam and Eve saw their genitals, senior drill)
AND = turn it like you want = no USA without the french hegemony on continental europe...
and DONT make me start on the Romans and Greeks because you cant win this one...
To brave men few words are as good as many
Last edited by Polemarchos on Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:31 am; edited 1 time in total
lol.. come on fellas get a grip... this is a game.. war is a reality.. and pol... history was written by the winners..reality was totally different from the losers perspective.. thus history as you know it is a warped reality.. if you get my drift..thats probably as clear as mud .. but so is history as we know it
No offense but pzjager just asks for it with his complete bullshit, he hasn't got a clue what he's talking about. He hears something faintly about terrorism and US and starts shouting about US propaganda and what not.
For one there is not even a faction called terrorists (they are called french) , secondly it's not even meant to be released to the public. People tell him this a few of times, yet he continues his bullshit, ignoring people who actually know what they are talking about. And you expect a friendly and serious response in return?
CSOSimtek decided to give people abit of a peek into the things they are up to with the CC engines and indirect the future of CC6 (something they weren't obliged to do) and all you guys can do is whine about how they should do things differently, while non of you have actually played it or has any knowledge about what CSOSimtek has to deal with.
It's one thing being sceptical and believe me I'm still sceptical, but it 's a completely different thing shouting unsubstantiated bullshit about things you know nothing about. There is nothing wrong with criticism either, hell that's why they asked people to test, yet somehow the ones with the biggest mouths here didn't bother signing up.
There someone had to do it ...
and don't worry, the faction isn't called France either
Chef- " I just wanted to learn how to fucking cook man!"
2. A commercial release will have the features. No one, absoulty no one said it will not be historical.
but thn again No one said it will.
Look, the thing is that this kind of ideas,in my opinion, cannot just be released under a pretext of a harmless computer game! What would be the reaction of the US Government and the public in general if a company would start to publish hundreds of pc games where the aim would be to destroy the evil Americans (would be nice to see)? hypocrisy is a strong point of American leaders, but PC games should be left aside for educational and recreational only.
In a long run everyone will loose, no exception for US.
About the idea of pc games, where the enemies of america would be heroes, i think it would be a blow out sale!
"There are no desperate situations, only desperate men" Heinz Guderian
2. A commercial release will have the features. No one, absoulty no one said it will not be historical.
but thn again No one said it will.
Look, the thing is that this kind of ideas,in my opinion, cannot just be released under a pretext of a harmless computer game! What would be the reaction of the US Government and the public in general if a company would start to publish hundreds of pc games where the aim would be to destroy the evil Americans (would be nice to see)? hypocrisy is a strong point of American leaders, but PC games should be left aside for educational and recreational only.
In a long run everyone will loose, no exception for US.
About the idea of pc games, where the enemies of america would be heroes, i think it would be a blow out sale!
Well here we go yet again, what kind of ideas would that be ? That terrorists are bad? You think they aren't? Please enlighten us ... I must have missed that propaganda pamflet that came with CCMAT when testing.
I don't know if you noticed, but you can play CC as both sides, switch to the other side and you can just do what you said ... kill the evil infidel americans ...OMG THE OUTRAGE!!!! As a matter of fact every CC version to date gives you this option , doesn't it ? And CC is hardly the only game where you can kill Americans... Maybe you should have thought about that one abit longer ...
And again this is a bloody training tool for marines training them in asymetrical warfare. Get over the hypocrite political bullshit allready, these factions they fight in this training tool can be other American people for all you know. This is a training tool for the army, armies have shit to do with policy making...
Chef- " I just wanted to learn how to fucking cook man!"
Last edited by Pzt_Coyote on Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
the main argument still is, that a game covering WW2 is better (in terms of political and historical correctness) than a game covering a recent,still ongoing conflict.
And what bothers me most is the question if civilians will be around in the public version as well...
What happens if you kill civilians? no decorations?
Cleary this Close Combat is a working fightsim. Obviously it isn't meant to replace any "real", on the ground training. The military isn't going to suddenly announce that they no longer need field training as this great fightsim fulfills all requirements of the armed forces.
I find it hard to believe that anyone who seriously plays CC hasn't taken away or developed numerous tactical skills - military and non military types alike. And someone in both the US Marine Corp and the RAF felt that it had some real teaching advantages, and I wouldn't argue with that.
If I was training a group of new officers and had a chance to teach them a few tricks using this unique tool... you're damn right I would.
Well take it from me. Nothing I have learned in Close Combat has helped me lead a section through the field. Its not anywhere near the same thing what-so-ever. CC is wayyyyyyy to easy compared with even the simplest attack in the field.
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Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:16 pm Post subject: Hmmm
Real command and CC is two seperate things. But Comb Sim is usefull..
The value of combat sim is decision making under stress, its also good for the adopt once training to a human opponent.
Any training manual, any combat training according to set situation is just so good for basic training…
The possible situation changes and terrain and opponent selected weapon and tactic, will test once ability to react to a non dogmatic situation. Evaluating – Decisions, Comb sim works here..
Its far more inexpensive then two companies or bats and tanks training in the field. Though troop command cant be trained by a mouse click, that’s command and control must be done by real men and hard practice..
We shall learn to adjust it to situation, and most important evaluate a situation where we don’t have all info about the enemy, there comb sim is in its best, but it cant ever take away the field exercise, command men take time and misstakes and much practice...
A thing that craps in CC; is the too good control of the units, and full info of once own disposition of troops, ((play with trees on = more realistic)) and the full info of ammo and soldier status.
I would want to see a CC where one dint have accurate such info, but just more general, and even lost units… ?
My thoughts nothing else,
Stalk
Last edited by AT_Stalky on Sat Jun 30, 2007 4:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
the main argument still is, that a game covering WW2 is better (in terms of political and historical correctness) than a game covering a recent,still ongoing conflict.
And what bothers me most is the question if civilians will be around in the public version as well...
What happens if you kill civilians? no decorations?
Well afaik, the public version doesn't have civvies. But even if there were, and I wish there were, what does it matter?
It's ok to defend the 3rd reich, which stands for persecution and killing of the jews and untermenschen, but it's more wrong or politicaly incorrect to kill a civillian directly, cause he threw a rock at you ? ...All this in a virtual world offcourse, where noone gets hurt. I don't think so and I really don't see the problem. Eventho we try and make things as realistic as possible, it is still fiction.
My virtual marines have lots of virtual civvie blood on their hands and frankly I was laughing my ass off, like a bloodthirsty maniac, Mac can vouch for that If that makes me politically incorrect ...so be it.
Does that mean the marines train at killing civilians and get medals for it, offcourse not. It's used to train how to deal with angry mobs without killing people. But obviously I don't make a good marine commander But that's the whole point of this simulation in the first place, you can fuck up without consequences.
As for historical correctness, the addition of civilians would in many battles only add to historical correctness.
Once Dima releases TRSM I'm so out of this thread
Chef- " I just wanted to learn how to fucking cook man!"
1.generally the army is tool of political purposes,
2. if you think that every propaganda comes straight to you in a panflet with direct words... i am truly sorry.
3. the same story again,the concept of terrorism has been quite twisted since Bush became the major one - and yes hypocrisy is the key word here!
About the game: civilians are present and let me guess, "terrorists" don't care about them, but good marines do. That makes me wonder about all the civilians killed in every war and the kind of weapons that the Non terrorists use which leaves a trace of uranium for future generations of other countries... so much for all the training protecting civilians!
My point is (because i m aware that i brought the political issues a bit to far for this forum) We should focus on history where facts are more clear now and leave the present alone for the reason that there are much to uncover!
people should get really over that good guys wearing nice uniforms and bad guys training with Kalashnikov in the desert - thats true Propaganda without the panflet.
"There are no desperate situations, only desperate men" Heinz Guderian
Well take it from me. Nothing I have learned in Close Combat has helped me lead a section through the field. Its not anywhere near the same thing what-so-ever. CC is wayyyyyyy to easy compared with even the simplest attack in the field.
No doubt. I wouldn't argue it any other way. But it's not supposed to be about leading a single team, it's about a battlefield situation with multiple units. It's for teaching officers to think of a larger picture, to practice, learn, and apply these lessons on the ground and in the field, however limited those lessons might be.
Quote:
About the game: civilians are present and let me guess, "terrorists" don't care about them, but good marines do. That makes me wonder about all the civilians killed in every war and the kind of weapons that the Non terrorists use which leaves a trace of uranium for future generations of other countries... so much for all the training protecting civilians!
Damn dude, how much are you going to assume before you actually know anything about the game? Does CC5 portray the US or Germans one way or the other? As Coyote already said, you can play whatever side you want, as always.
Do you really expect CC to address the ramifications of spent uranium rounds or what kind of terrorist is represented and why?
Clearly you want to vilify one group over the other, fine, but leave CC out of it.
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In August of 2004, Zappi, Homba, Bambam887, RedScorpion and MOOXE all pitched
in to create this Close Combat site. I would to thank all the people who have visited
and found this site to thier liking. I hope you had time to check out some
of the great Close Combat mods and our forums. I'd also like to thank
all the members of our volunteer staff that have helped over
the years, and all our users that contributed to this site!
But that's the whole point of this simulation in the first place, you can fuck up without consequences.
