First of alll, I would like to be clear: I am SAD with this situation. CSO has been supporting CC during years. I personaly pray for its future.
That said:
1) CSO have been playing a bad game for a long time. a) Melting a CC fans site with a commercial one. b) Forgetting to defend their site against hackers and junkers.I still remember an islamic message on the main forum.....deleted after at least 10 days....There is a message on CSO like "fight against facism". Did that fail? c)...... Tooo long
2) CSO has not understood that CC2/3/4/5 was a free game. They have allowed themselves to injure CCmoders like myself (and some others), ignoring them, and even insulting them. I will never forget that I have been Fuck.... on this site by Mr Uberdave and others without ANY moderate from moderators (were there any "moderators" on CSO to allow Mr Uberdave to insult me without any barrier?)
3) An old CC fan has left the CC community today. A very good guy who has been a member of the SOC testers team. I AM MORE SAD about this than against the fact that CSO has given up.
The strange thing is thier webserver is down, but thier FTP and EMail are still working. Unless Apache (the web server software) went corrupt theres not much reason for not starting is back up and atleast placing a "back soon" message. Unless the keyholder to cPanel is unreachable?
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seems that if they were to shut down then we would have been notified in advance so most likely is a technical problem, however when they hacked usually the site comes back up in a couple of days, this problem seems to be a week long now.
I get the feeling that there is always a lot of infighting between the ones who run the site
1) CSO have been playing a bad game for a long time. a) Melting a CC fans site with a commercial one. b) Forgetting to defend their site against hackers and junkers.I still remember an islamic message on the main forum.....deleted after at least 10 days....There is a message on CSO like "fight against facism". Did that fail? c)...... Tooo long
The PHP the CSO ran off was old and very hackable. I asked for and was told, wed get an update, NEVER DID.
The hacks were so bad, that I coudlnt find any fixes and when Sulla looked into it, it was 'resolved' by reloading old saves.. a temporary solution at best.
There was a big time problem for several months where the CSO was driven by Simtek, the lien was crossed by several people like Flamethrower. People volenteered "to halp" but didnt do anything but post in the forums under pro Simtek agenda.
Sulla is a very trusting person and there was NO directive from him to anyone to push Simtek, that is clear to me. But none the less Sitmek supporters didn tyaint the forum and the fight I had with a few of them was clear for everyone to see.
In the end note Sulla did have me head the CSO again and the slanted Pro Simtek people were removed from any admin functions. Sulla fixed the proeblem, but probably too late.
Schrecken, although with Simtek and now Matrix, was and I beleive still is neutral and has always acted on the best interests of everyone. Mooxe knows him well and can probably back this up. (Or correct me! lol!)
pzjager wrote:
2) CSO has not understood that CC2/3/4/5 was a free game. They have allowed themselves to injure CCmoders like myself (and some others), ignoring them, and even insulting them. I will never forget that I have been Fuck.... on this site by Mr Uberdave and others without ANY moderate from moderators (were there any "moderators" on CSO to allow Mr Uberdave to insult me without any barrier?)
I believe you guys fought in the NAFFI forum, which I always thought was a silly forum that I desperately wanted to get rid of. It was a liability for nothing good. Dave was reprimanded for misconduct in other forums where I was ALLOWED to moderate. I remember suspending Siet for a week who went WAY over the line but because it was NAFFI, I got heat big time.
NAFFI forum was stupid.
Quote:
I get the feeling that there is always a lot of infighting between the ones who run the site
Not really, heres the story in a summary.
Sulla owns the site.
I was admin for a long time.
Flamethrower and a few others were mere moderators who talked as if they ran the place and did poor jobs moderating and belittled key members of the community. (Everyone is a key member)
Schreck, with limited knowledge on HTML or PHP helped support the site, but could only do so much. Again his work was sincere and neutral IMHO
When Flamethrower and others tianted the forums, Sulla didnt want me to can him and others because over 11 years it wasnt the CSO type of things to fire people. The disagreement was that this poor moderation conduct I felt was WAY over the top so merited an axe, Sulla didnt agree. So I left it in the hands of others and I think the record shows without me adminng there was little activity and continued Simtek cheerleading.
Deleted posts, poeple badmouthing/plotting behind backs via PM (Not realizing SOME of us admins coudl read them) People lost focus. The site was for so long for a game and for fun, it was not that for a while.
Sulla, and I respect him a great deal, but with his illness wasnt able to keep tabs on the downward spiral and the slanted Simtek propaganda machine the CSO had become and in letting me finally try to right the ship was way too late.
thats what killed the reputation of the CSO. As Mooxe has pointed out, I was the one who foolishly appointed Flamethrower a moderator and it was a horrible decision. He took the knife out in due time and dug it deep in my back but also dug his own grave for his own position. His appointment arased the line that kept the CSO neutral from Simtek.
I believe fianaces killed the CSO. Thats why its not up. the site is huge and its funded SOLELY by Sulla.
With all the pro Simtek BS that dragged the CSO to new lows, what modivation to pout hundreds of dollars into the site each month would Sulla have at this point? How much woudl you have?
More than 11 years of being around most of it as the only site supporting CC, its a shame that so many people look at the CSO as what a few narrow minded people turned it into late its exsistance.
The CSO has options, form me and others, but the fate rests in Sullas hands, and his wallet, which would be a hell of alot bigger if hed have thrown the towel in years ago. Whaqtever he decieds, Id understand.
All it takes is a couple of bad eggs to ruin the whole lot. And after 11 years where people ran the site for the good of the community, those eggs popped up.
Support the developpers my ass! We play a long though dea game because we love it and most fo us have done a shitload to keep it alive, were allowed to be critical becuase WE have helped keep it alive.
EVERYONE should be neutral but human natrue dictates wa cant. We have to make sure that at least people running community sites are the most neutral of the group.
Good post Sbufkle
Im still waitting on a "formal" lay-off but i guess we will have to settle with this inside look.
So Matrix will take over? Where do we stand about future projects! CC6 is still on the agenda?
After reading Anzac-Tack thread ( CCV retirement) I was lead to belief a CC5 rebuild was already in beta test, or is it CC6.. maybe its just my imagination.
Tack is right from what I got updated a few weeks back, rerelease for 5 is/was well along. As matter of fact other rereleases were not only planned but expected. If that has changed in say the last 5 weeks, I wouldnt know, but dotn seem to see a reason why it would have.
Again, from the last word I heard, the rereleases are a precursor for CC6. As far as why, well I dont know! lol! Id prefer to see CC6 on the top of the lsit, but the peopel pushign the buttons now have alot of experience with this.
Undewrstand a key factor is there is no more Simtek, a company close to Matrix has taken over as has more clout and albeit just my opinion but it seems alot more professional in the sence they shoudlnt be a conflict like the Simtek/CSO debacle. No knock on Sulla, but hindsight being as it is, that fell flat.
Mooxe does a great job at the CCS. Im flattered someone woudl think I should help. But he does a great job all by himself with a fairly dedicated support team in the forums. Although I havent contacted him sicne before Christmas, Mooxe and I had a very good repore for a while before then and had some productive discussions on CC and what we could do to help each other move the community forward. There is a possiblility the CSO is not dead and something suprising could coem from whats left, theres some info that I cant say that if came through would see the CSO survive and work with the CCS. But thats not written in stone.
As I told Beebs around 2 years ago, if or when one of the sites goes down for the count, hopefully the other can keep going, because only then will people see there was a benefit with 2 sites where they could keep each other honest. The Simtek incident without the CCS would have kileld the community outright. Peopel woudl have had no other place to go, but thankfully we all did!
Hey, the CSO could come back and I might be there or not there, and if I perhaps sumbit some articles here or post Id be happy to be doing something.
If the CSO is dead, my last request with it woudl be my hope that people remember the pre Simtek days.
Wow!...not that you had much credibility in my book over the past year or so with your kindergarten-esk tirades, but admitting that you are reading others' private communications, just reinforces the opinions many people have arrived at regarding your character.
well despite all the "he said she said bullcrap".I for one will miss CSO.
It was the best place to go for information and help when modding CC.
It used to be Ryans but that doesnt happen.Now it's all I have the 1st post crap.
Then it was CSO
And thats not happening
All the information and all the help that is now lost is the biggest loss to CC.
Sure CCS has a modding workshop but it has never caught on like what was at CSO.
Geuss I can see why all the old timers leave CC..........................
Judging from watt has been said here it seems to be quite acurate.
The link for S3T the "new" CC devteam links to a "Coming Soon" so i guess this will the the future of the former CSO simtek.
I think The old post database should be made availlable some how, a lot of knolodge and work are buried on those post.
If it wheren´t for CCS we would be back to stone-age.
Wow!...not that you had much credibility in my book over the past year or so with your kindergarten-esk tirades, but admitting that you are reading others' private communications, just reinforces the opinions many people have arrived at regarding your character.
Let me clarify, people sending me screenshots of PMs THEY had opened up. And me unable to turn off thier access to do this.
By checking the PHP log in the forum it shows you I never accessed any PMs other than my own.. however those who DID, are clearly shown. anytime you do anything in the admin panel of the forum, it shows what tou did and where you went!
Flamethrower and some others who had fianacial interests with Simtek went way too far, its why the CSO fell apart and why the CCS is still around. Sulla trusted so many people but hew wasnt able to be around to make sure to keep peopel in line, which is a shame.
In the end Matrix backed the idea Stimek/CSO merger was a massive mistake.
Ask the right people Neil, and ask why Sitmek was disbanded.
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