Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:13 pm Post subject: Any other war/strategy/tactical game recommendations?
I know there's another thread on this but the poster seems to have a specific idea of the game they're interested in while I'm open to any kind of game.
I'm looking for strategy or tactical games of any kind but preferably older games or at least games that don't require a new PC with a top of the line video card to run. It doesn't have to be a CC like game, but it can be about air combat or naval combat, historic (rome total war-ish) or futuristic, turn based or real time. It can be 3d or hex. I'm pretty open to anything, the only requirements being that it's fun and it's not going to be too graphically intense for my aging computer. I can play games like Rome Total War which is great, but the load times are quite annoying for me. I'm sure there are older games out there that are just as good if not better than newer games.
Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:23 pm Post subject: Re: Any other war/strategy/tactical game recommendations?
I'm a big fan of Paradox Interactive. I suspect you'd enjoy the latest installment of the Hearts of Iron series. It's a grand strategy game set during 1936-1948, with the majority of the action obviously taking place from 1939 onwards. The map consists of a wopping 10,000 provinces, every nation is playable and your economy and diplomatic relations also have to be taken into consideration. The latest game was only released a week ago and is supposed to be buggy as hell (as is always the case with new Paradox releases). However the support from the team is very impressive and you can expect the game to be patched for years to come. I'm holding out buying until the complaints on the forums become less. Anyway, if grand strategy takes your fancy Hearts of Iron can't be beat.
The latest game was only released a week ago and is supposed to be buggy as hell (as is always the case with new Paradox releases).
So, they are selling unfinished games. Is it possible to pay for them with unfinished money?
Do their games even carry appropriate warning?
It's a well known rule of thumb amongst long standing members of the paradox forum that there are always issues with newly released games. This would be outrageous if the support wasn't there. Due to strategy games unfortunate (or perhaps fortunate?) unpopularity with the majority of gamers the company only has a staff of around 10 people, so many very obvious bugs are often missed due to the lack of alpha and beta testing. There's alot of interaction between the staff and the fans on the forums (akin somewhat to schreken on here) and if there is a large enough petition demanding the addition of a feature, it often is.
Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:21 pm Post subject: Re: Any other war/strategy/tactical game recommendations?
I might check out Hearts of Iron 2. There seems to be more going for it than HOI 3 right now.From what I've read HOI 2 is a little easier for a newbie to get into and I'm assuming it's going to be less buggy than a newly released game which you say is notorious for having bugs early in its release. HOI 3 looks good though, I saw screenshots so I hope HOI2 is just as good. Plus the system requirements for HOI3 are pretty high (for me anyway!).
It's a well known rule of thumb amongst long standing members of the paradox forum that there are always issues with newly released games. This would be outrageous if the support wasn't there.
No, it is outrageous - It is: 1. selling an unfinished product for full price, which is simply unprofessional.
2. not notifying the buyer about it, which is a disgusting scam.
Look, here's a feature list from their store:
* Play as any nation from 1936 to 1948, more than 150 countries to choose from.
* Control the oceans with aircraft carriers, submarines and battleships and use your air force to defend your skies, support your naval and ground forces, and to bomb your enemies
* Thousands of historically accurate real-world military commanders and politicians.
* Realistic military command AI with unprecedented levels of interaction
* In-depth diplomatic and political system.
* Historical accuracy combined with an unparalleled level of freedom of choice
* Customize your divisions in detail with more than 20 types of brigades
* Government-in-exile makes it possible to continue to struggle from abroad with underground movements and uprisings against the oppressing power.
* Strategic warfare system makes it more important to defend the skies and oceans against foreign attacks; leaving cities open to enemy bombing will now be devastating.
* A completely new intelligence system, with several types of intelligence sources, makes it possible to get information about enemy reserves and troop movements.
* Assign troops to “theatres” on the map to fight two-front wars more successfully.
* The new AI system and more detailed map will allow for more strategic decisions.
* Flexible technology system with hundreds of categories, and unlimited research.
* Highly realistic historical order of battles.
* The first realistic logistic system ever in a strategy game.
I don't see anything like "Warning the product wasn't sufficiently tested and probably will contain a lot of bugs. The product was released as it is due to difficult financial situation of our company. We apologize and promise to quickly release patches when bugs are reported."
Due to strategy games unfortunate (or perhaps fortunate?) unpopularity with the majority of gamers the company only has a staff of around 10 people, so many very obvious bugs are often missed due to the lack of alpha and beta testing.
Unfortunate unpopularity? Do you realise that games made by Paradox Interactive sell well enough to get a local publishing of translated versions in many countries?
It's not like they can't afford to give out 10 copies of their games to get a testing team (one physical copy is enough to get a tester that will test a game for at least half a year without any additional payment).
Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:33 pm Post subject: Re: Any other war/strategy/tactical game recommendations?
You've bought the game then? If so, is it really as bugged as they say? I'm defending them because I'm bit of a fan boy tbh. Maybe I'm a little naive in thinking the Paradox team make these games not only to make lots of money, but because they geniunely have a passion for it. Maybe extremely naive. I'm no programmer so I have no idea what kind of difficulties are faced in making a game like HOI3, but I do find it difficult to understand why so many bugs were not picked up during testing. I'll patiently wait until the next batch of patches are out before I purchase and I'm sure it'll be a great game.
Last edited by Priapus on Thu Aug 13, 2009 8:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
but I do find it difficult to understand why so many bugs were not picked up during testing. I'll patiently wait until the next batch of patches are out before I purchase and I'm sure it'll be a great game.
And most people ought to embrace that idea and only buy games when they are finished.
Until the most flagrant bugs are removed, the game is in its alfa or beta stage, and why pay to be a beta tester?
This is a grate thread. As Im also in desperate need of a new game.
Anoyone tried any of the many games from this place that rufus point at battlefront.
And if so which of em and what yer thought?
I'm defending them because I'm bit of a fan boy tbh. Maybe I'm a little naive in thinking the Paradox team make these games not only to make lots of money, but because they geniunely have a passion for it. Maybe extremely naive.
Well, passion, hobby and being a fan boy should count only if they would give away their games for free. Otherwise it's business. People have to work hard to get money and if their work would be on the same quality level as work of game developers, they would lose their jobs very fast (I know that it's months to years of work of whole team, but then they do it for thousands of people, so it evens out).
I think that game publishers/developers are in such privileged position because most of their clients start buying their products long time before they start working and thus don't understand the value of money, work ethics, etc.
It becomes a habit that stays in adult gamers unless somehow they start wondering about that problem. I became less accepting of this state when I bought Fallout Tactics a few years ago. It turned out that the game (that has a special game mode where one can't save during missions) tends to crash in almost every mission due to a faulty sound system.
I have returned it to store - they were trying to not allow me to return it because "I could copy the game disks". I have returned it anyway. A few weeks ago I've read that the game was in beta tests for 3 days...
Another thing that changed my attitude towards gaming is when I got my first job and I could see how much is demanded from normal hard working people. There was no place for any lack of quality and lack efficiency despite low wages.
Generally, there are tons of questionable stuff in gaming business.
One main thing - this business isn't customer orientated. It's publisher/developer orientated. Ethics of gaming business are only about interests of the publishers/developers not about interests of customers.
Practically all space devoted to ethics of gaming business in gaming magazines are devoted to fighting piracy.
I'm no programmer so I have no idea what kind of difficulties are faced in making a game like HOI3, but I do find it difficult to understand why so many bugs were not picked up during testing.
IMO main reasons for bugged games are:
-insufficient time for testing - from my experience, about 6 months is a minimum for alpha and beta testing. Also, any publisher who can't accept that a game isn't in releasable state and needs further polishing should stop publishing games.
-testers that don't know what to look for or aren't perceptive enough.
-testing team without diverse computer systems.
-poor organisation of tests (for example all the testers test one part of a game, but don't test another.
etc., etc., etc.
And the most important reason - publishers know that their games will be bought anyway, no matter if their games are finished or not. Simply, unlike with normal people, bread and butter of publishers/developers doesn't depend on delivering a finished, well polished game. They have practically brought up their audience to accept quality of work and business practices that would be unacceptable in normal business.
So, for example gaming press, game developers and game publishers can call people who play their games without paying for them "thieves" (despite that nothing is removed from inventory) and "pirates" (despite that they don't commit armed robbery transports that carry gaming disks), but somehow developers/publishers who sell unfinished games and somehow omit that fact in product descriptions aren't called "crooks" by press and competition (despite that they are cheating money out of players with false information).
Here's one thing. CC series wouldn't be in such sorry state if Microsoft/Atomic Games would admit that AI/vehicle pathfinding is broken and that it needs re-thinking and re-working.
They could be helped in admitting it by gaming journalists and potential customers.
Seriously, if these gaming journalists can call their readers "thieves" and they can tell them to buy original games, why can't they call a game broken, a developer a crook without work ethics and tell people not to buy their products?
Where's e-Quality of their products? Where's Equality between treatment of our work and their work?
I'll patiently wait until the next batch of patches are out before I purchase and I'm sure it'll be a great game.
It's a bit more pragmatic that buying it outright, but you will still give your money to people who have no qualms about releasing unfinished games for full price and without a proper warning in product description.
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