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TRIVIA: Are soldiers credited for killing surrendered troops?

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mooxe

Rep: 174.9
votes: 23


PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:25 pm Post subject: No hit kills - Prove it! Reply with quote

Ok having this arguement with some guys on course....

Some saying that if a .50cal bullet passes close to you that it will do damage to you. I say it wont. Sure theres a "shockwave" or something but not big enough to do damage.

Also some saying the 25mm round will kill you if it passes close. I also can't believe this.

I don't have proof that it wont besides my own opinion.

They have no proof other than a widely accepted theory that it happens.

Does anyone have proof either way?
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0202243

Rep: 50.9


PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:11 pm Post subject: Re: No hit kills - Prove it! Reply with quote

I remember the scene from band of brothers (i think the episode with private blyth), where 1 of the guys is knocked over by a passing round of 1 of the german panzers... seems more realistic to me, allthough i'm not sure about reality.
could be it is possible mooxe, i don't know (and i personally don't believe either)


We are the pilgrims, master. We shall go
 always a little further, it may be
beyond that last blue mountain barred with snow,
 across that angry or that glimmering sea.
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GS_Schimpf

Rep: 3.3


PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:28 pm Post subject: Re: No hit kills - Prove it! Reply with quote

Are there really no scientific experiments lingering around on the net on this topic?
Sounds a bit improbable that a 50cal bullet should do damage by only passing by close. I'd rather think it's one of those legends that make this caliber more mystical than it really is. Sure it is a quite big bullet but it still only is a bullet.


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WW2 Gaming since 1999
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Senior_Drill

Rep: 9.7
votes: 2


PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:33 pm Post subject: Re: No hit kills - Prove it! Reply with quote

Mooxe, what is their definition of "close"?  One centimetre or 1 metre?  For the .50 cal, which type ammo - M2 Ball (856 mps - Mach 2.4), M23 Incendiary (1036 mps - Mach 3), or M903 SLAP (1219 mps - Mach 3.5)?  Something going Mach 3.5 going passed my ear only 1 cm away probably would hurt my ear.  At 1 meter from my ear, it would still be a loud "Crack", and might make my ear ring for a while.

Again, which type of 25mm ammo fired from what?  Lots of ammo types to choose from and weapons that fire them, each with some difference in muzzle velocity, but generally speaking, all produce Mach 3+ velocities.  Several thousand Joules of energy zipping past in a micro-burst super sonic shock wave.

For either calibre ammo, the Inverse Square Law is your friend - the greater the distance, the less the effect.  Then there is MET-T, angle of incidence, clothing, ballistic protection and hearing protection worn to be factored in.  It has gotta hurt if just a few millimetres away from yer noggin, but might just be another bastardly aspect of a truely fucked up day at multiple cm's.

I nominate the jerk that makes the Jackass movies to be the test subject for a clinical trial, with a less than accurate gunner.   Twisted Evil


C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre.
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Gen_Jack

Rep: 3


PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:56 pm Post subject: Re: No hit kills - Prove it! Reply with quote

Hey Mooxe,

Saw them testing something similar to this on Mybusters - whether a .50 cal round would break a glass from the shockwave if it passed close to the glass.  They found that it would not.  If the shockwave won't break a glass then I doubt that it would kill anyone.

Only possibility I can think of is that if it passes close to your ear the sound wave might rupture your ear drum and damage the inner ear, which in theory could kill you.  Probably a one in a few million shot though.
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RD_DeathDealer

Rep: 4.3
votes: 3


PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:48 pm Post subject: Re: No hit kills - Prove it! Reply with quote

It's a JOKE to think that near misses can cause any real damage when it comes to high velocity projectiles!

Both the .50 cal and 20mm rounds (or fragmentation therof) need to make contact in order to kill or wound you.

I WISH that near misses would cause damage...neutralizing targets in Iraq would be that much easier for some of us.
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Therion

Rep: 27.4
votes: 4


PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: No hit kills - Prove it! Reply with quote

Gen_Jack wrote (View Post):
Hey Mooxe,

Saw them testing something similar to this on Mybusters - whether a .50 cal round would break a glass from the shockwave if it passed close to the glass.  They found that it would not.  If the shockwave won't break a glass then I doubt that it would kill anyone.

Frankly, breaking a glass wouldn't mean anything. Dropping a glass from 50cm can break it. Dropping a human won't.


Wonderland - my mod for Armored Brigade

Killing for peace is like fucking for orgasm.
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Gen_Jack

Rep: 3


PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:06 am Post subject: Re: No hit kills - Prove it! Reply with quote

Therion wrote (View Post):
Frankly, breaking a glass wouldn't mean anything. Dropping a glass from 50cm can break it. Dropping a human won't.


Exactly, if it can't break a glass it ain't going to brak a human.
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Senior_Drill

Rep: 9.7
votes: 2


PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 2:22 am Post subject: Re: No hit kills - Prove it! Reply with quote

Gen_Jack wrote (View Post):
Therion wrote (View Post):
Frankly, breaking a glass wouldn't mean anything. Dropping a glass from 50cm can break it. Dropping a human won't.


Exactly, if it can't break a glass it ain't going to brak a human.


Beware of blanket statements.  Cheap chinese made table ware ain't the same thing as oven proof Pyrex.  Once watched a bartender drop an obnoxious drunk to the floor from one smack to the forehead with the base of a tempered mixing glass. It didn't leave a mark on the glass!   Laughing

I have the same opinion of the concensus here, though; it might effect your hearing, but it ain't gonna kill ya.  What you don't want to test in person is the effect of being in close proximity to the muzzle blast from large calibre navel guns - 15 inch and larger.  That kind of overpressure can mess you up big time.


C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre.
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CSO_Talorgan

Rep: 51.9
votes: 1


PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:13 pm Post subject: Re: No hit kills - Prove it! Reply with quote

Senior_Drill wrote (View Post):
What you don't want to test in person is the effect of being in close proximity to the muzzle blast from large calibre navel guns - 15 inch and larger.  That kind of overpressure can mess you up big time.


They had to reposition some of the AA guns on the Yamato after early trials of the main armament "removed the flesh" from one of the AA gunners arms.

Lovely!
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Tippi-Simo

Rep: 53.1
votes: 5


PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:09 am Post subject: Re: No hit kills - Prove it! Reply with quote

Is there a possibility that those rounds can cause you lost of your hearing?


"Du talar dalig svenska, men du är bra i sängen"
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